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I'm all for staying the course and getting two first rounders at our biggest need and grabbing Carr in the 2nd round. I would be good with that. 
And the next head coach is ......
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Or it could just be that Rodg™rs was already going to be good.
I'm in the camp that you learn by playing. I think the sitting thing is overrated.
I'm in the everyone is different camp. Have you seen the few times that Rodgers played before McCarthy got there? Awful comes to mind. His observing and McCarthy had a lot to do with his success IMO.
I can be in the everyone is different camp. That makes a lot of sense.
But people talk about this magical sitting exercise. They never address it as player specific. It's just deemed automatic that it is better to sit no matter who we are talking about.
To me there's no substitution for actual experience. I understand everyone might not be ready for that, however.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm all for staying the course and getting two first rounders at our biggest need and grabbing Carr in the 2nd round. I would be good with that.
I would be totally cool with this as' well, if it were to unfold...
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Or it could just be that Rodgers was already going to be good.
I'm in the camp that you learn by playing. I think the sitting thing is overrated.
I'm in the everyone is different camp. Have you seen the few times that Rodgers played before McCarthy got there? Awful comes to mind. His observing and McCarthy had a lot to do with his success IMO.
I can be in the everyone is different camp. That makes a lot of sense.
But people talk about this magical sitting exercise. They never address it as player specific. It's just deemed automatic that it is better to sit no matter who we are talking about.
To me there's no substitution for actual experience. I understand everyone might not be ready for that, however.
I think in today's NFL sitting beyond a year is just wasting your own time.
In a year, I think you can catch up on the week to week process. You also probably learn how to prepare your body for 17 weeks instead of 12-13 in college.
Beyond that, I don't think there is any other benefit. Although people still living in the old NFL who think you should run the ball every play and win 10-6 probably think a QB should sit for 10 years before playing. GET OFF MY LAWN.
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Or it could just be that Rodgers was already going to be good.
I'm in the camp that you learn by playing. I think the sitting thing is overrated.
I'm in the everyone is different camp. Have you seen the few times that Rodgers played before McCarthy got there? Awful comes to mind. His observing and McCarthy had a lot to do with his success IMO.
I can be in the everyone is different camp. That makes a lot of sense.
But people talk about this magical sitting exercise. They never address it as player specific. It's just deemed automatic that it is better to sit no matter who we are talking about.
To me there's no substitution for actual experience. I understand everyone might not be ready for that, however.
I think in today's NFL sitting beyond a year is just wasting your own time.
In a year, I think you can catch up on the week to week process. You also probably learn how to prepare your body for 17 weeks instead of 12-13 in college.
I think it varies from player to player, system to system, coach to coach. It takes what it takes.
Aaron Rodgers needed every bit of time that he sat. It can easily be argued that Philip Rivers did as well, and that perhaps Drew Brees could have used a little sit time, too.
It's not about "sitting" as if those players are idle, it's about learning the game, your system, and your terminology well enough for as much as possible to be second nature to you BEFORE you start to be regularly distracted by weekly game planning and trips to the ice tub after getting you head beat in. That way, when you do get on the field, those are all things that the player doesn't have to be overtly thinking about between plays, and especially not once the ball is snapped.
A QB might be able to diagram a defense or coverage all day long on a dry erase board and even tell you what his keys & reads are and where he should be able to go in certain situations... but, if he can't quickly recognize that very same defense when he is looking at it in front of him in 3-dimensions instead of as a top-down overhead view, then he isn't going to be ready enough to play in a game..... this makes me wonder, how heavily do they test these guys on spatial reasoning/recognition, and how much deals with translating 2d to 3d?
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 11/12/13 10:37 AM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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This is a very trick situation. It's so hard to project how these Spread QBs will transition to the NFL. They have one read. They don't have to deal w/all the reading of defenses and coverages like NFL QBs have.
It typically takes these guys a bit of time to transition. There have been a couple of exceptions--Newton and RGIII, but even both those guys regressed in their second seasons.
I am having a very difficult time getting a read on this year's group of qbs, because I just don't see them reading coverages. It's not their fault......they aren't asked to. But, as we have seen firsthand w/Weeden, if you can't read coverages, you are going to struggle.
I agree with this completely. I'm actually not even going to attempt it.
I have my personal opinions to some extent on these QB's coming out, but there really isn't enough evidence on them when it comes to playing in an NFL system as you mentioned for me to evaluate them with any degree of certainty.
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A lot of people seem to be down on Brdigewater, but I still think he is the safest pick. And I agree w/you that he hasn't dazzled me as much as he first did. Not sure if he has the "it" factor.
I do need to add this.........I keep reading there "aren't any Andrew Luck's in this draft." Well, I don't know if there ever were or if there ever will be again. The guy was the perfect qb coming out. I was pimping him as a freshman, more because of what Harbaugh was saying about him than anything else.
I am leaning towards hoping we don't trade both first round picks for a qb. While Hoyer and Campbell don't have a huge sample size, it's still more than anyone collegiate qb we bring in. On the other hand, we are almost certainly going to use one of those first round picks on a qb. I'm okay w/that, but man, I hope it doesn't backfire in our faces---- again!
And that's more my train of thought. I really don't believe we'll have a legit. shot at Bridgewater and I honestly feel that if you don't feel you're getting a "Luck/RG3" type QB, it wouldn't be in your best interest to invest multiple first round picks to draft them.
So it's not so much that I'm down on Bridgewater, it's that I wouldn't be in favor of giving the huge investment it would take to get him. If we even had any chance to get him, which I don't believe we will.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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projected 2nd rounders...lol 
just remember this at this time in 2011 talking about the 2012 draft. RG3 was projected as a 2nd round pick...Now the tricky part is...would Manziel more resemble the rise (hopefully not rising too much) of RG3 or the Rise of Ponder and what he brings to the table.
I just wish for Special. I wish for a Super Star!!! for crying out loud we deserve one!!
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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The one team that at this point that could be a key for the Browns is the Falcons. If they were to get the first or second pick I really believe they would be open to trade.
Bridgewater is a very good prospect. Mariota is a very good prospect. After those two guys. The cons start to add up. There are some guys that could be good but none are squeaky clean.
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"I keep reading there "aren't any Andrew Luck's in this draft." Well, I don't know if there ever were or if there ever will be again."
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Funny about Luck. I am not a huge college. Just kind of catch the big match ups or try an watch the guys getting the most hype.
Saw Luck play a game as a junior. Had never heard of the guy at that point. Called a fellow Browns friend of mine and said: " I just watched a guy who is the best college QB prospect I have ever seen."
Ever since I have become a huge fan of him. Died when the Jags beat the Colts which I knew right there and then he would never be a Brown.
Mettenberger has shown me some good qualities. Wish he had a little more mobility.
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The one team that at this point that could be a key for the Browns is the Falcons. If they were to get the first or second pick I really believe they would be open to trade.
Bridgewater is a very good prospect. Mariota is a very good prospect. After those two guys. The cons start to add up. There are some guys that could be good but none are squeaky clean.
I think once the season ends and these QB prospects really get broken down by both media and executives, there will be a line drawn between who's a franchise type guy, and who's just one of those late first guys that may/may not be good. If Atlanta ends up in front of that line drawn, I think they trade the pick. If not I think they hold out for Clowney or some other top notch defensive player.
2 years ago the line was drawn between 2 and 3. Everyone knew Luck/RG3 were separated from the rest. Tannehill was a nice consolation prize.
If the line gets drawn between 3 guys, and Atlanta finishes right there in the top 3 or 4, how could they not pass up a nice package with multiple/future 1's?
One other thing. Thomas Dimitroff, Atlanta's GM, worked with Mike Lombardi in Cleveland in his first go-around with the Browns. Don't think that won't get brought up when the draft goes full throttle.
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Yeah, at this point, Clowney to Atlanta seems to be a lock. Only possible exception I see is if Houston is in front of them and thinks their future is with Case Keenum.
Atlanta let Abraham walk last year, and their pass rush has suffered for it. I had them taking a pass rusher with their first pick in both my Post-Combine and Final Mocks last year (actually had them taking pass rushers with their 1st and 5th picks in Final mock). They ended up not drafting an end until rounds 4 and 5, drafting more of a base end in the 4th (Goodman) and a project edge rusher (Maponga) in the 5th. They are reaping the benefits of that decision this year IMO.
That being said, they may stumble into the best pass rusher in years in Clowney, benefitting from this being a year that a lot of QBs are expected to go high.
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I live in Atlanta. My opinion but I do not think that Clowney is a lock at all. Their OL is horrible and they have other needs RB included. They will be very open to taking a package.
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I do remember you pimping Luck. You were one of the first guys who spoke so glowingly about him.
--Clowney? I live in Columbia, SC and see and hear a lot about him. Got a funny story about him in class. It's hard for me to say if he is worth the first overall pick.
His physical gifts are unmatched and when he is focused, he can dominate. However, he isn't a hard worker and is often out of shape. He takes a lot of plays off. He get suckered all the time. His gap and outside containment responsibilities are severely lacking.
I think he is a bit of a risky pick. However, if he ever truly "gets it," he could end up being dominant.
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I do remember you pimping Luck. You were one of the first guys who spoke so glowingly about him.
--Clowney? I live in Columbia, SC and see and hear a lot about him. Got a funny story about him in class. It's hard for me to say if he is worth the first overall pick.
His physical gifts are unmatched and when he is focused, he can dominate. However, he isn't a hard worker and is often out of shape. He takes a lot of plays off. He get suckered all the time. His gap and outside containment responsibilities are severely lacking.
I think he is a bit of a risky pick. However, if he ever truly "gets it," he could end up being dominant.
sounds like the next "big money" 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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j/c
Bridgewater appears the have the fewest question marks. The possibility to be in a position to draft him seems remote. Mariota appears extremely talented. Because of the system he plays in there will likely be considerable transition to an NFL offense. Manziel is polarizing, entertaining, a gamer, gutsy and a high risk that his game may not translate to the NFL. These guys are the best high profile prospects. All of the highly touted QB's after these options place them on a tier below the guys I've mentioned by name.
If what I've described above is at all accurate and I think it is; I prefer Blake Bortles of UCF. O'Leary's offense contains pro-style, under center, elements, shotgun, spread and read-option. Bortles displays arm strength, touch, mobility, and, decision making. He's won big games on the road this year, He stands 6'4" and is 230 lbs. With the quarterbacking we currently have on the roster he offers a very viable option, maybe in round 2.
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Manziel is polarizing, entertaining, a gamer, gutsy and a high risk that his game may not translate to the NFL.
Sounds like the Second Coming of Tebow.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Manziel is polarizing, entertaining, a gamer, gutsy and a high risk that his game may not translate to the NFL.
Sounds like the Second Coming of Tebow.
I think Tebow is the best comparison for Manziel.
He has far more going for him than Tebow as far as NFL chances go, but if you pay attention, you'll find that scouting reports listing 'IT' or 'special' far more than they do traits that would lead one to believe that his NFL odds are good.
'IT' and 'special' and 'gamer' are usally terms given by doe-eyed dreamers to superior college QBs who lack pro tools and/or smarts.
My biggest fear going into this draft is that we take him.
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Manziel is polarizing, entertaining, a gamer, gutsy and a high risk that his game may not translate to the NFL.
Sounds like the Second Coming of Tebow.
I think Tebow is the best comparison for Manziel.
He has far more going for him than Tebow as far as NFL chances go, but if you pay attention, you'll find that scouting reports listing 'IT' or 'special' far more than they do traits that would lead one to believe that his NFL odds are good.
'IT' and 'special' and 'gamer' are usally terms given by doe-eyed dreamers to superior college QBs who lack pro tools and/or smarts.
My biggest fear going into this draft is that we take him.
+1
That makes so much sense it hurts.
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Come on. Manziel and Tebow are so far from being the same player... I mean they're basically opposites in every physical trait. The fact that they both inspired confidence in their teammates and were able to perform well under pressure should not make them similar pro player prospects. I mean, just their deliveries alone are so completely different. Really?
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Come on. Manziel and Tebow are so far from being the same player... I mean they're basically opposites in every physical trait. The fact that they both inspired confidence in their teammates and were able to perform well under pressure should not make them similar pro player prospects. I mean, just their deliveries alone are so completely different. Really?
I thought I was pretty clear when I said that Manziel has more going for him than Tebow in terms of NFL traits/potential of success.
But they're on par.
If I'm wrong....who is the closest comparison? What traits, beyond 'winning' or 'having it' or 'being special' leads you to believe that Manziel is 'the guy'?
Size? No.
Arm strength? No.
Intelligence/ability to read a defense? No.
Please tell me the trait that makes you say 'this is the guy!'
Please explain to me what leads you to believe that he's a viable franchise QB, and refrain from saying that he has 'It' or that he 'just wins' or that he 'makes things happen' or he's 'special'.
Bolster your point with one trait that doesn't come down to 'intangibles'. Give me an example of one superior, head-above-the-rest trait that doesn't have to do with college competition.
Give me one reason why he's a viable first round pick....
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Kinda just clicking a little
I can't or don't see anyone that Jumps out at me in this upcoming draft that makes me wanna say "we gotta get this guy". They all seem to have talent but they don't seem to give me that "He can't miss" feeling.
To be fair, I don't (like the rest of us) get to see all the tape on all the players. I don't get to meet them face to face or analyze them and I'm no QB Guru to begin with. So I certainly could be missing something important.
But generally, you know "it" when you see it and I ain't seeing it.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Kinda just clicking a little
I can't or don't see anyone that Jumps out at me in this upcoming draft that makes me wanna say "we gotta get this guy". They all seem to have talent but they don't seem to give me that "He can't miss" feeling.
To be fair, I don't (like the rest of us) get to see all the tape on all the players. I don't get to meet them face to face or analyze them and I'm no QB Guru to begin with. So I certainly could be missing something important.
But generally, you know "it" when you see it and I ain't seeing it.
I'm just hoping that our guys see one of these QB's as someone who is a perfect fit for what they want to do.
I don't want to draft a QB just to draft one, but with so many eligible for the draft, there has to be someone that they really like.
If they find someone who really fits the demands and the mold for what they want going forward, then I think they should do everything in their power, within reason, to go and get that player.
There's not a rush to get a QB in here, since Jason Campbell and Brian Hoyer both are capable of running the offense, but I think everyone, fans, and the people in Berea really want to get someone inside the building, learning Chud's system, because we know both Campbell and Hoyer are probably not long-term solutions.
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I think Tebow is the best comparison for Manziel.  Huh???
Not even remotely close. Will not say anymore as I wish not to insult.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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" A lot of people seem to be down on Bridgewater"
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This is from a recent PD article:
" He plays in a pro-style offense that asks him to make difficult throws and yet makes it look easy. He's going to be incredibly difficult to bump out of this top spot. He has the arm strength while at the same time displaying good touch. He is effective throwing to every level of the field. He has excellent presence in the pocket and is not afraid to deliver the ball in the face of the rush. Whatever it is you want in a quarterback, Bridgewater possesses it."
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This is exactly how I feel about Bridgewater. You are right. He is the safest pick in this draft.
I have gone out of my way to watch Bridgewater. He really impresses me. Personally I think he is a better prospect than RGIII. Who I liked a lot and still like.
Bridgewater is a pure quarterback. He never looses tract of the plays downfield. He does not rattle. Love his vision and poise. I have tried to find issue with him and can not. He is spoken very highly of by all who have come in contact with his work ethic and leadership.
Man, I would love for the Browns to get a shot at this guy.
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Mariota is not as polished as Bridgewater. It is almost like he is a year behind. Has nothing to do with potential only experience at this point. He has more to learn. Down the road though the sky is the limit. He would be perfect to school for a year behind Campbell/ Hoyer. Learning under Norv and Chud would do wonders for Mariota.
My hope is Atlanta bottoms out and lands the first or second pick. I think they would jump at a package trade offer.
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I think Tebow is the best comparison for Manziel.
Huh???
Not even remotely close. Will not say anymore as I wish not to insult.
Yeah, I haven't paid as much attention to the QBs this year as I should have ..... but from what I have seen of Manziel, he is nothing like Tebow.
Here is what Drew Brees thinks of the kid. (for what it's worth)
Drew Brees believes Johnny Manziel is a starting quarterback in the NFL - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Drew-Brees-Johnny-Manziel-is-absolutely-an-NFL-starter-111113
No quarterback in NFL history has shed the dreaded “undersized” label and reached historic heights better than Drew Brees. But the Saints’ All-Pro signal-caller also knows that without that prototype size, leadership, preparation and talent are a must to make it in the NFL.
So perhaps no current player in the NFL knows what’s in store for Texas A&M star Johnny Manziel — and what kind of NFL career the Heisman winner can have — better than Brees. And when it comes to Johnny Football, consider Brees a fan.
“He is a heckuva player,” Brees told FOXSports.com in a telephone interview. “He’s fun to watch. He makes all kinds of plays.
“He’s got all the playmaking ability to be a great player. [There are] guys like [Manziel] in this league. Russell Wilson and his ability to run the football and extend plays outside the pocket and throw the ball down the field. Intermediate [routes], I mean he can do it all.”
Most importantly, Brees thinks the third-year sophomore who most expect will declare for the NFL after this season has the most necessary of intangibles — the ability to take control of a huddle and lead an NFL offense. When asked if Manziel, who is listed at 6-foot-1, could be a starter at the next level, Brees put it simply: “Yeah, absolutely.”
“There’s way too much weight put into physical stature as opposed to can you find the open guy,” Brees said. “Can you deliver it accurately? Can you make plays? Can you lead your team to victory? Can you lead them? Period.”
Since winning the Heisman last season, Manziel has seemingly received as much attention for his off-the-field behavior as for his performance between the sidelines. Most notably were offseason allegations that the Aggies QB received money in exchange for signing memorabilia — the NCAA found no evidence to support the claims but both the school and the NCAA agreed to suspend Manziel for the first half of the season opener. But after the tumultuous offseason, Manziel has kept a low profile this season and is wowing his critics with more than 3,000 passing and 600 rushing yards to go with 39 total touchdowns.
One challenge that Manziel will immediately face as a pro is digesting an NFL-sized playbook. He must not only comprehend the schemes and plays, but execute them with precision. According to Brees, that ability is one of the biggest in terms of separating the great quarterbacks from the good.
“I think the physical qualities are not nearly as important as the psychological qualities of playing the quarterback position,” Brees said. “Certainly you have to have some level of throwing ability and fundamentals and that kind of thing. But speed, height, arm strength those things are way overrated when playing the quarterback position.”
Manziel’s poise on the field and ability to improvise make him an elite collegiate quarterback. In the NFL, he’ll need to earn respect of the veterans — on and off the field — to maximize his potential.
“You have to instill confidence in the guy’s you’re playing with so they’ll follow you and play for you so you can get the best out of them,” Brees said. “It’s all about leadership.”
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If they find someone who really fits the demands and the mold for what they want going forward, then I think they should do everything in their power, within reason, to go and get that player.
Absolutely agree! It's a big "If", but should our FO be convinced that "player X" is the guy they must have, then do what you need to get him...."within reason". Like many others, I believe we come out of this draft with a QB, whether franchise or developmental.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I keep shaking my head in a mmm mmmm mmmm way (positive). Is it possible we have the absolute most perfect situation. I know the NFL (teams) are snobbish with the size of the QB. I know Manziel is not remotely the NOT NFL QB type that Tebow is. He has special written all over him like Tebow but translated to the NFL as in Arm n footwork.
That Snobbery could keep him out of the top 10 and have him available at our pick or possibly a not so damaging move up (a couple slots in the mid First round).
But even more perfect is the emergence of Hoyer n Campbell - One of them will be our starter next season. After reading that article we are the perfect team for Johhny Football. He has to learn the NFL game. He will have one of the best NFL OL (I assume we will only get better) . Gordon, Little, Cameron will progress as well as Benjamin and whoever else we add/upgrade into the offense. One season possibly 2 will serve him best. Not only that, having Hoyer/Campbell could possibly have one of them bring us a Kings Ransom in draft picks by the time JM is ready.
This is possibly too good to be true in my books...the cynic in me will just wait for this to get mess up somehow...  But it can be so so perfect!
JMHO can it be 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Not to mention one of Hoyer or Campbell could become a fairly valuable trade asset.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I think Tebow is the best comparison for Manziel.
Huh???
Not even remotely close. Will not say anymore as I wish not to insult.
As I said (twice now), I'm not talking about their abilities or traits.
I meant the comparison in terms of hype and high bust potential- a guy whose college performances will get him overdrafted.
Manizel has a much higher chance of NFL success than Tebow, but I see them as similar in that regard.
Some team is going to pay a premium for him, and I hope it won't be us.
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Quote:
I thought I was pretty clear when I said that Manziel has more going for him than Tebow in terms of NFL traits/potential of success.
But they're on par.
Maybe I don't understand what these two comments mean together.
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If I'm wrong....who is the closest comparison? What traits, beyond 'winning' or 'having it' or 'being special' leads you to believe that Manziel is 'the guy'?
Size? No.
Arm strength? No.
Intelligence/ability to read a defense? No.
First of all, he's got plenty of arm strength and doesn't even need to plant to fire a good ball. He also has a quick-fire delivery. He makes flick throws that are similar to what Griffin did on the move, but doesn't quite have the same velocity.
More directly to your question, Manziel's best trait is to take a nothing/blown play and make a big, positive play out of it. That's not something Tebow did at Florida (or Denver for that matter).
Manziel has got a lot more in common with Ben Roethlisberger than he does with Tim Tebow as a prospect with his ability to extend plays and get the ball downfield when things break down.
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Please tell me the trait that makes you say 'this is the guy!'
Please explain to me what leads you to believe that he's a viable franchise QB, and refrain from saying that he has 'It' or that he 'just wins' or that he 'makes things happen' or he's 'special'.
Please tell me where I said he was "the guy." I just said that your Tim Tebow comparison was ridiculous. Because it is.
Last edited by clevesteve; 11/13/13 12:10 PM.
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Not to mention one of Hoyer or Campbell could become a fairly valuable trade asset.
We've had to little luck with QB's that I'd not even think about trading either of them LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I meant the comparison in terms of hype and high bust potential- I agree (especially if he wins Heisman #2) about the tremendous HYPE involved. I disagree with you regarding this imaginary "HIGH BUST POTENTIAL"
1. We all know that outside of a Luck, RG3, Stafford You know the Overall #1 QB picks of late (RG3 was supposedly 1b) there is a bust potential w/First round and for that matter later round QB picks.
2. I just don't get this "HIGH" which correct me if I'm wrong insinuates a greater propensity to bust then what we have seen in the near past.
3. I cannot quantify his ability to learn but he seems to be a pretty smart Football mind. That will be a key. Actually the kid to compare him to is Brees. His arm, his stature...they came from a different era of college football. But back in the day Brees ran about as wide open an O would be found in the Big 10. (hopefully the correct conference name - I'm not big on college football  ) He was over looked cause of his size and went 32. Another who dropped and the reason that was being given was because of his size was Aaron Rodgers.
Now Brees took about 3 years to GET IT...SD was ready to give up on him n did invest in the OVERALL #1 pick Eli...which we all know converted via trade to #4 Rivers.
Rivers had to sit 3 years before getting his shot. It did him well.
Rodgers sat learning while Favre ran his course in GB...It did him well.
Why I'm excited. Teams have been forced to utilize their QBs well before their time but possibly the new CBA can make that easier.
The QB contracts were tremendous especially in the top 10 picks. They needed to show a return. Also going way back in time...teams just didn't have the FA factor so they had their QB investment basically FOREVER...to groom. That's why I state one season or Two with Manziel...cause we don't wish to burn that bridge in the name of developing.
But we are in a Win Win situation. Due to the emergence of Campbell n Hoyer. With Norv...the real QB maker of the NFL. If he (JM) will make it anywhere it will be here.
He does need to learn how to take snaps from center and perfect his drops but he has excellent footwork capabilities. He does need to learn patience in the pocket and how to slow down his feet when in it. He won't come to us perfect and ready to go. But Norv seems to be one of the best.
In this brief showing of Campbell...Campbell does credit Norv in changing his release. He had a wind up release in the past...Norv is an excellent QB coach. Alex Smith, Rivers, heck Aikman, perfect coach to bring in a college kid with a world of talent!
Got to stop getting excited. The odds of us getting somebody I covet and the more I look at it covet more n more as the perfect scenario for us....is rare to say the least. Can it Be...two I remember as a kid/young adult. Was Greg Pruitt and another was Leroy Hoard...wanted both of them big time...and lo n behold they were Browns! 
Of course Joe Thomas was an easy one. But mid first??? what are the odds.
JMHO - just embracing the thread
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I keep shaking my head in a mmm mmmm mmmm way (positive). Is it possible we have the absolute most perfect situation. I know the NFL (teams) are snobbish with the size of the QB. I know Manziel is not remotely the NOT NFL QB type that Tebow is. He has special written all over him like Tebow but translated to the NFL as in Arm n footwork.
That Snobbery could keep him out of the top 10 and have him available at our pick or possibly a not so damaging move up (a couple slots in the mid First round).
But even more perfect is the emergence of Hoyer n Campbell - One of them will be our starter next season. After reading that article we are the perfect team for Johhny Football. He has to learn the NFL game. He will have one of the best NFL OL (I assume we will only get better) . Gordon, Little, Cameron will progress as well as Benjamin and whoever else we add/upgrade into the offense. One season possibly 2 will serve him best. Not only that, having Hoyer/Campbell could possibly have one of them bring us a Kings Ransom in draft picks by the time JM is ready.
This is possibly too good to be true in my books...the cynic in me will just wait for this to get mess up somehow... But it can be so so perfect!
JMHO can it be
I'll only add this to your observations: He (or whomever they pick) will have Chud, Norv and Whipple as teachers....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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ooooops- my bad.
At present, it would seem that we DON'T have a QB coach. I'd just assumed he was still here, because I never heard of him leaving.
In light of that, I'd have to assume that Norv has those duties.
I could name worse guys to teach a rook, tho-
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Quote:
I disagree with you regarding this imaginary "HIGH BUST POTENTIAL"
How is it imaginary?
He doesn't have ideal size, nor does he have a very high release point to compensate for that fact.
His footwork is very inconsistent. It's gotten better as this season has gone on, but it's also a project area.
His arm strength is adequate.
His ability to go through progressions is troubling.
He has a tendency to flee the pocket too early (though he's been improving there as well).
He's a moron.
He has questionable work ethic.
There are legitimate questions regarding his skill set translating to the NFL.
If you add all of that up...yeah, you're looking at a very big potential for failure, especially for a first rounder.
I wouldn't take the kid before the third round.
I'm not saying that he will bust. He could be a very successful NFL QB. He does have a lot of positive traits, and this is just a focus on the negative. But the likelihood isn't high enough for me to want to take the risk, especially in the first.
When you're looking at all of the above factors, intelligence and work ethic are probably the most important. You can win in this league without being 6'3 or having a cannon. But those other factors must come into play.
It comes down to whether or not he can adjust his game and overcome his limitations. I just don't see it, though I could understand the other side of the argument.
We'll all find out soon enough, but, man, I hope we don't touch the guy.
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Prior to the season, Norv said that he preferred to act as his own QB coach.
The weird thing is that he is up in the booth during the games, where it is hard to coach the QBs during the game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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How is it imaginary? Cause I've only heard it spoken by you.
Clemdawg...in my next post about an hour before yours I did state that Norv is a QB maker as far as teaching goes we're on the same page!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
If I'm wrong....who is the closest comparison? What traits, beyond 'winning' or 'having it' or 'being special' leads you to believe that Manziel is 'the guy'?
Size? No.
Arm strength? No.
Intelligence/ability to read a defense? No.
Please tell me the trait that makes you say 'this is the guy!'
Please explain to me what leads you to believe that he's a viable franchise QB, and refrain from saying that he has 'It' or that he 'just wins' or that he 'makes things happen' or he's 'special'.
Bolster your point with one trait that doesn't come down to 'intangibles'. Give me an example of one superior, head-above-the-rest trait that doesn't have to do with college competition.
Give me one reason why he's a viable first round pick....
I'll have a go at it.
Closest comparison? Russell Wilson.
One reason he is a viable first round pick?
He is extremely accurate. That's one, but I will give you more.
--His arm is more than adequate.
--He has escapability.
--He sees the entire field.
--He keeps his eyes down field when scrambling.
--He makes plays out of nothing.
--He performs well in the clutch.
--He is a leader on the field. Guys follow him.
--And like it or not, having "it" is very important.
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Quote:
How is it imaginary?
Cause I've only heard it spoken by you.
I am the only person you've heard question Manziel's ability to succeed at the pro level?
Seriously?
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Quote:
Quote:
Not to mention one of Hoyer or Campbell could become a fairly valuable trade asset.
We've had to little luck with QB's that I'd not even think about trading either of them LOL
No, but past luck doesn't determine future luck.
If we draft a QB high, we probably aren't going to keep all three for long.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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