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True, I'll wait out this draft too and hope he proves me wrong, but I admit I don't have much hope.
It's mainly because I don't like a lot of how he talks about the draft, not only the obvious lack of evaluation skills on display anytime he opens his mouth about a player. Not only the content, also the form.
He makes fun of the "value" approach, but does not see that his "blue chip" crap approach has the SAME problems. He had 15 players as blue chippers or potential blue chippers in that 2011 class. JJ Watt wasn't one of them…but so were Gabbert and some OL from Villanova that was cut after his rookie season and was out of the league in 2012 (now a backup in NYJ) now what? If your evaluation sucks, it doesn't matter if you "think" in terms of value or blue chippers. It's just like two different codes/languages of a scheme. Both have the same goal, so why deride the one and think yours is the "smarter" one? Lack of respect and thinking you're oh so great is a loser's mentality.
Whenever someone thinks he has the better method, the bigger the risk of a greater "dead angle" while thinking to "drive safe". And that's exactly what I see with Lombardi. A guy who has bloated up his chest so much that he can't see much else anymore.
What I personally don't like about his "blue chip" approach is that it's elitist without much foundation. It sets its eyes on guys "who can become top 5" at their positions. Nice thought. The problem is that it's the typical "outsmart" approach and you'll miss out on the many "solid" talents and start reaching for "potential" ones. He'll miss the JJ Watt's and Kyle Williams's and Rubin's and even Drew Brees' and Wilson's of this league on a consistent basis. What his "system" forgets is that even "solid" College talent, like the one's I named, ALSO can rise to blue chip territory, while having a higher floor to boot. He'll miss out on those more often and we're already starting to see that with their 1st draft
Long story short: expect MANY boom or busts with this approach, but I don't expect it to land more booms than we've had lately, while the busts will get more I suspect. Over time an approach like this will bleed out a roster and it's certainly the wrong way to "build" anything. It's a luxury approach that contender's can allow and get away with, but not so good to build anything substantial imho
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I wonder, though ..... how much work did Lombardi put in on the draft when he was a commentator? (and how much does any commentator/expert do while in that capacity) I am sure that they watch tape ... but I doubt that they watch as much tape, and live games as a scout, in their commentator capacity. Further, do these commentators have staffs and people working for them, or are they doing all of their "scouting" themselves.
I honestly don't know.
However, I do know that Watt, for example, was generally thought to be a far more promising DT than DE. IIRC, there was a lot of bewilderment as to how Watt fit the Texans 3-4 defense by most of the "experts".
These "experts" also tend to look for opportunities to make big, bold statements.
People like Pete Prisco have made comments about drafts for years as well. He gave to selection of Cam newton, for example, a C, as well as the Broncos selection of Von Miller. I think that both players, in terms of production, would rate an A+. (though Miller did have the drug suspension, that was a concern)
He also gave the Falcons trade up for Jones a C, saying that they had better be right, because it's a huge risk for "just" a receiver.
Christian Ponder got a A for the Vikings. Gabbert got a B-. Phil Taylor got a C.
Fox Sports (Adam Caplan) said that Von Miller would fit better at DE than as a OLB. They gave the Broncos a C+ as a result.
The Niners got a C+ from Caplan That draft included Aldon Smith and Colin Kaepernick.
The Seahawks got a D. They picked up guys like KJ Wright and Richards Sherman .....
These guys are right ... and wrong ....... and anyone can pick and choose examples of both.
We'll have to see how he does for us, and I hope that he does a great job.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't like projects in the early rounds of the draft ( see Mingo ) .. Third /fourth ok , but not in rounds one and two ..
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You're absolutely right and that's why they're all still "analysts". Our "problem" as I see it, is that we have one of those as GM now (puppet or not, I don't have much more faith in any coaches or Banner calling shots, though I'd trust those guys "instincts" more than Lombo, that's how low I am on him). I just think we don't have a competent FO when it comes to evaluating and drafting College talent. I know I sound overly negative here, but I also like some stuff about them. I like the cohesiveness of the organization more than ever. It's structured very good, the setup is there to succeed. The "form" is good. Now they "only" need to come through on the "content" part…and that's where I have my doubts. I'm not hating just to hate. Everybody knows I'm going to have strong opinions on many draftable prospects by the time draft day comes, so I can't go hindsight on them. It was the same last draft. Btw, why hasn't the draft section opened up already? Honest question, since the season is over and every 2nd thread is becoming a draft talk thread already. I hope the archives "survived" the last board crash, as I think we can all learn from looking back an re-think evaluations and tendencies. Looking forward to share thoughts and footage about specs and can't wait to get it going. FREE the DRAFT SECTION 
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NRTU.. Kinda
All this bashing of Lombardi for what he said in his old job has to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember, he was hired as a Media guy. He was hired to sell air time and to do that, you sometimes have to say things that you may or may not actually believe in order to stir the pot and get people talking.
I've heard this so many times, but it's really not a good argument. Unless you're saying he was paid to pimp certain players over others?
What he was paid to do was evaluate the draft and give his opinions on talent. That's what he did. There's a HUGE difference in reporting facts on Lombardi's talent evaluation record and "bashing him".
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If you wanna look at what Lombardi (the GM) did , you gotta go back to his time in that role.
If you do that, you won't come away very encouraged. But you can also come away knowing that he was relatively new in that role. You have to believe (read that as hope) that he's learned something.
Just saying,
And to a great extent, that's the point. What he has said in his profession as a draft analyst and the reports that dj have shown, are at least some indication of exactly what you are describing. ie... what he's learned since his last job as a GM.
I'm not predicting a huge failure on the part of Lombardi. But many seem to believe since Hoyer was able to string together a couple of games, Lombardi is some kind of genius. While the fact remains that his overall record of evaluating QB's is poor to say the least.
And as I said, unless you somehow feel he was paid to pimp certain players, which I find extremely unlikely, dj has a very valid point.
Pointing out a guys poor record of evaluating talent isn't bashing anyone. It's merely pointing out their track record. Labeling that as bashing someone I find extremely disingenuous.
Lombardi's track record of evaluating talent shouldn't put a lot of optimism or faith in anyone. And that's not bashing him. That's simply the facts based on his overall record of the things he's stated and his record as GM in the NFL prior.
Now let the excuses and accusations of bashing him begin....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Tough to call there Waterdawg...in my view they are ALL PROJECTS with possibly the position of RB as the exception. The transition is great for all of them...RB the biggest transition they have is blocking for the QB. It the most natural position.
Robo...the most ready WR to come in.
Who was that top 10 LB that busted in Seattle??? He was to be the most ready to play in the NFL for the entire draft.
I don't really think that exists. They are all projects. If we didn't have Sheard playing so well Mingo would have getting most of the reps and his education would have been seen (progress) . Early in the draft means one thing and one thing only "TALENT" and its Potential talent at that. It is "IF" they reach their potential it should bring greater reward than a 3rd rounder reaching theirs.
Its about arm length and explosion and speed and power combined with the love to be the best. But they all must PROGRESS and reach their potential.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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j/c PitDAWG, not wanting to be a but-in, but statement below I feel "pimping" is very true: Quote:
I've heard this so many times, but it's really not a good argument. Unless you're saying he was paid to pimp certain players over others?
It can't be proven, but I bet BB used Lombardi often to shed light on/off people he wanted. You have to also wonder, well at least I do, whether Banner was repaying Lombardi for favors. NFL teams are no different than politics in the business world.
I mean no disrespect, but I can't believe you think NFL Network analyst are truly giving their honest to goodness assessment. If true, why don't we hear names of true "diamond in the rough player?" How much knowledge do fans really gain listening to Lombardi types? Average Joe thinks since it an ex-GM it has got to be true. Its media their primary objective is give customers what they want. Lombardi used Cleveland as a tool, because a) easy; b) you can't talk negative on good teams that may hire you later; c) Cleveland's prior ownership dissed him already.
I am by no means switching opinion on Lombardi. You have to look at the whole picture. Banner did hire Ray Farmer out of the blue. Also, why does Banner do all the pressers when Lombardi was the TV guy? My belief is Lombardi brings some good to the table, but individually he is average at best as a GM. I think the overall package of Banner/Lombardi/Farmer is making it work.
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Would you ask him for his opinions of QBs when drafting one?
No, because he has a horrible track record. Hoyer's "find" was his best, but it didn't come out of College and outside of that he has far from proven to be an efficient starter in this league, so I would keep the champagne bottles back a little more, if I were you 
Here's the list of who Lombo liked and pimped out of College in recent drafts:
Bradford
Henne
Gabbert
Pat White
J.Russell
He also didn't like the Kaepernick selection and would have passed on Cam Newton
Read this "gem" from just two years ago and how often he was flat out wrong on stuff:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8...g-worried-teams
Smiling in St. Louis
If I am the Rams, I am happy right now -- happy that no team in the NFC West added a quarterback that could match the skill set of Sam Bradford. The Rams have the best quarterback in the division and will be the team to beat.
Picking Justin Houston was also strange. He had some off-the-field concerns, and his effort on the field is questionable.
Falcons' flop is Browns' boon
I did not like the trade by the Falcons to acquire Julio Jones. They paid a king's ransom to select Jones, and I am not confident he is the next Calvin Johnson. Jones has some issues, and I am not sure that Greg Little -- the receiver the Browns took at 59 with one of the picks acquired from the Falcons -- might have similar athletic skills.
Love the Jah Reid choice. (still a backup in his 3rd season)
Giants get thumbs up
Even though I am not sold that Prince Amukamara is a shutdown corner, I liked the Giants' draft overall. Marvin Austin in the second round was a great value, and James Brewer has the skills to develop on the offensive line. (Both Austin and Brewer are still backups)
The Texans went directly at their needs with each pick. I like J.J. Watt but thought Cam Jordan was a better inside rusher.
Here's my fav though:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d8...g-worried-teams
5. The Texans will need to explain to me where J.J. Watt will play on passing downs and what impact he can make at that position. I liked Watt as a two-down player, not a rusher. And I preferred Cam Jordan as a more all-around player. However, Watt brings talent, and second-rounder Brooks Reed must provide pass rush.
This dude knows talent, when he sees it, lol He said JJ freaking Watt, the league's best defender, was a two down player and he would have probably passed on him mid 1st, but now back as a GM he drafted a one down OLB in Mingo in the top of the 1st. Man's so smart...
If any of us would flip a coin on draft day, we'd probably still be better than Lombardi's "evaluations". I have ZERO faith in this clown and there's a multiple other articles like the one's I posted that show what an imposter he is.
So? Your answer to whether you would ask Lombardi for his opinion is that you would look at what was posted on a website?
You should go see what was written about Josh Gordon leading up to the 2012 supplemental draft.
You do know that the Bills passed on him twice and they are the only team that could have outbid the Browns.
He does have the concerns with the suspension (and I have them). Put "2013 nfl supplemental draft" into a search engine and read it.
So... again, I ask you whether you would ask Lombardi for his opinion and I hope that you give me something else than a list of websites.
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Quote:
've heard this so many times, but it's really not a good argument. Unless you're saying he was paid to pimp certain players over others?
What he was paid to do was evaluate the draft and give his opinions on talent. That's what he did. There's a HUGE difference in reporting facts on Lombardi's talent evaluation record and "bashing him".
I think it's a very valid argument and my reasoning is simple. When you are a media weenie, you talk about players but you don't necessarily talk about them in relationship to a particular team.
And the reason for that is you can't, as a media weenie know what the team REALLY wants to do and HOW they intend to use a player.
"Bashing" was probably too strong a word, perhaps questioning his ability is better. But still, look strictly at the Josh Gordon pick. Lombardi wouldn't have done it (or so he said) .
If he wouldn't have done it because he'd be afraid of potential suspension issues, I'd say that is valid.
If he wouldn't have done it because he didn't think the kid had talent, he would have missed the boat by a mile.
I'll bet you right now, there isn't a QB on this team that isn't happy to have Gordon. same with Offensive coaches.
That's why I feel that good GM's adapt to the structure and plan of the team. And media guys don't.
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Damanshot
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J/C ..... media types are worried about getting ratings/eyeballs.
GMs are worried about being right about the players they choose, and the ones they pass on.
When Lombardi was a commentary guy, his job was to get people to watch. If that means making strong comments about players that go way beyond what eh might say if he were running a team, then so be it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I'm willing to bet that the draft section hasn't opened up because we already have enough fighting going on on the board. I think everyone has hits and misses. Lombardi's were all out there for everyone to see, and he is on record for ALL draft picks, unlike a GM who is only going to be on record for their own picks. Maybe I'm too lenient, but I tend to to give the talking heads a pass/ignore them regarding draft picks. Their job is to be on camera, look nice, and say stuff that keeps people's attention. It's also way too easy (and pointless) to play the hindsight game regarding draft picks. Cam Newton did present A LOT of risk being drafted #1, and people were calling him a bust just last year, when the wheels appeared to be falling off. Some were criticizing Carroll and the Seahawks for taking Wilson right after they paid what they did for Flynn (  by the way). Big Phil had character risks being shown the door from Penn State, IIRC, earlier in his college career. The list goes on and on, and bashing a guy for getting picks wrong is silly, especially coming from the guy who pimped Gabbert and Weeden... 
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Its time for those of you, and you know who you are, to man up and argue (specifically) Django's points. He put himself on the line, now get specific and put yourself on the line. As I've said before, Lombardi is, who we all know he is. Nothing more, no matter what the apologists try to spin. If he changes, has a complete turnaround, then we can step up and commend him for it. I will be more than happy to admit that I was wrong and glad that I was. As to the thread, I am still an apologist for Bradford (horrific offensive line, horrific wide receivers, horrific coaching, injured running backs, I don't think the guy ever had a chance, he's a victim of going to a bad place at a bad time). Also, when looking at Mariota, his offensive line has been destroyed by PAC 12 competition. His wide receivers, and running back, couldn't even make Florida State's team. Mariota's regression seems to coincide with his having to run for his life on every pass play, and having no running game when they play against good competition. Dee Anthony Thomas has taken pressure off at times, but he's a hybrid skill player that is best when used in misdirection, pass plays, and trickeration. Seems to me the Lombardi apologists are the same guys who used to argue with me when I used to go after Randy Lerner. Same guys, same arguing strategies. 
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Caleb Hanie Cleveland QB from 2013 to 2023 leads an unheard of 9 year Superbowl dynasty. Star running back Greg Little rushes for 1000 yards for 9 consecutive seasons behind bruising fullback Billy Winn. Wide receivers Jordan Cameron and Josh Gordon make a talented offensive duo recording over 1500 yards each season individually. Backup QB Spencer Lanning leads the team to a Superbowl victory in 2024 after Hanie was lost for the season after tearing his ACL while protecting future President Ron Paul from a bullet while touring the North East during his campaign. Oh wait what were we talking about? Uh Manziel, I vote Manziel? A month ago the opinions on Johnny Manziel and Derek Carr were polar opposites. I'm not going to form an opinion until the combine or the senior bowl. Rankings change too much during the actual college season. And it will all be moot when we trade for Ryan Mallet on draft day 
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J/C ..... media types are worried about getting ratings/eyeballs.
GMs are worried about being right about the players they choose, and the ones they pass on.
When Lombardi was a commentary guy, his job was to get people to watch. If that means making strong comments about players that go way beyond what eh might say if he were running a team, then so be it.
Hard not to agree with that.
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All Django did was give us facts, specific facts, that justify what we all know.
What I can gather from the past two pages is:
1. Lombardi gets a pass for all the incredibly bad decisions he made as a sports journalist, because he was a sports journalist.
2. Lombardi gets a pass for all the incredibly bad decisions he made as a GM, and as a front office bureaucrat, because it was in the past, he was young, he worked for Al Davis and it wasn't fair, yada yada
OK, I get it. Thanks, I feel much better. For a moment (few months) there I thought we might be in trouble.
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I wonder, though ..... how much work did Lombardi put in on the draft when he was a commentator? (and how much does any commentator/expert do while in that capacity) I am sure that they watch tape ... but I doubt that they watch as much tape, and live games as a scout, in their commentator capacity. Further, do these commentators have staffs and people working for them, or are they doing all of their "scouting" themselves.
I honestly don't know.
That's what I am thinking. You put it into better words than I would have.
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I read that article you posted. I noticed you forgot to mention Lombardi's comments on drafting Weeden and TRich. Wonder why that is?
What did he say about TRich again? I'd like to read that, oh look:
1. I believe the safest pick in the draft -- beyond Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III -- is Alabama running back Trent Richardson. He's a blue-chip player and has all the skills to quickly establish himself as a top-five player at his position. Forget the nonsense about not taking backs early -- everyone would love the chance to get this guy.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...ney-upshaw-down
That's funny, because here is what was said by the author that Swish posted:
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One reason I'm skeptical of this move is Lombardi's assessment of the Browns. As an analyst, Lombardi was critical of Heckert's Trent Richardson-Brandon Weeden draft, calling it a "panic disaster."
So, do we believe everything else that writer said? I am pointing this out because I seem to remember Lombardi saying that Gordon could have been had in the 3rd or 4th round and that the Browns wasted a pick. Somehow, that 3rd or 4th round pick got dropped along the way.
Look, you hate the new FO because you so desperately wanted the previous regime to succeed. The previous regime is gone. They are not coming back. All your whining will not bring them back.
You never bad-mouth the previous FO, even after such gems as TRich, Weeden, and Schwartz in rounds 1 and 2 and other brilliant picks like Hardesty and Maracic. Free agent signings like Mitchell, Rucker, and Usama Young. Yet, you blast the current FO for all the time.
Your sig says it all.
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But many seem to believe since Hoyer was able to string together a couple of games, Lombardi is some kind of genius.
Many? Care to quote some of the "many" posters who believe Lombardi is a genius? I haven't seen those posts.
Here is one for you, though:
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If any of us would flip a coin on draft day, we'd probably still be better than Lombardi's "evaluations". I have ZERO faith in this clown and there's a multiple other articles like the one's I posted that show what an imposter he is.
Sounds like this poster thinks Lombardi is a "clown" and an "imposter." Far from a genius.
Now "No Agenda Pit," go find me one post that uses the word "genius" to describe Lombardi.
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J/C I posted this in the draft talk in tailgate but think it applies here as well. Current QB's on NFL rosters and where they were drafted. 
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J/C I posted this in the draft talk in tailgate but think it applies here as well.
Current QB's on NFL rosters and where they were drafted.
Okay, I'll take this at face value since I haven't researched it myself.
However, I'll point something out. How many teams are considered to be looking for a starting QB in the NFL draft in May? How many currently have 1st round QBs as their starters?
Also, how many of those teams would love to have one of the QBs serving in a back-up role on another team as their starting QB?
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All Django did was give us facts, specific facts, that justify what we all know.
What I can gather from the past two pages is:
1. Lombardi gets a pass for all the incredibly bad decisions he made as a sports journalist, because he was a sports journalist.
2. Lombardi gets a pass for all the incredibly bad decisions he made as a GM, and as a front office bureaucrat, because it was in the past, he was young, he worked for Al Davis and it wasn't fair, yada yada
OK, I get it. Thanks, I feel much better. For a moment (few months) there I thought we might be in trouble.
I think for many of us you are way over-thinking this Lombardi thing.
#1 - He isn't gong to play QB for the Browns;
#2 - What he did as a GM-type guy - good, bad, awful, or great - happened a long time ago and with Al Davis signing his paycheck;
#3 - Whatever he said as a draft "expert" has the life span of a mosquito in terms of importance.
Look...myself and others are leery of Lombardi due to his past in #s 2 & 3 above, however this is now. He will be right...he will be wrong...you just won't see many long-suffering Browns fans jumping off the bridge until he gets some kind of track record while he is HERE.
We NEED him to succeed...we NEED some semblance of continuity...such are the reasons why many of us aren't bashing him before he "ruins" the team after one whole year on the job.
The entire obsession with the various front offices in Cleveland - past and present - is mind-boggling to me.
The old guys are gone and they aren't coming back.
The new guys can barely give directions to the bathroom.
For those of you who insist on constantly focusing on the various front offices, I would ask you to do us all a favor:
Post in regards to the players on the roster and who is responsible for them being here. You must do it timely, because NFL rosters turnover quickly even for the best teams. This analysis is useless after a FO has been gone for two or more years.
Post in regards to who was picked/signed but is no longer here and the significance/insignificance of that player.
Please do not play the draft could/woulda/shoulda game as to who we did NOT draft...it's utterly useless to play that game without including about a million other variables that make a serious debate impossible.
Let's see you guys put some meat into the debate, rather than the constant back and forth bashing that adds nothing to the board. (Which BTW is too bad because you guys usually have some interesting takes on football.)
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Now "No Agenda Pit," go find me one post that uses the word "genius" to describe Lombardi.
Okay so the word genius was not used as far as I know.
However, blaming his draft assessments on being televised I believe to be short sighted. These guys have careers. If your goal or dream is to once again be an NFL GM, or even be taken seriously at your current job, poor draft analysis doesn't bode well for that.
To me that's like saying Kyper and McShay don't try to get it right. I believe that logic is far from sound. Viewers are looking for answers and the NFL draft is a huge three day extravaganza now. Being accurate would be the single best way to get better ratings year in and year out.
Some posters IMO simply make excuses at every turn for his poor showing to date when it comes to drafting or for his work with the NFL Network and his draft blogs.
My hope is one of two things happen here. Either......
1. He is simply a voice in the room that has one of several opinions. So that his wishes aren't necessarily the path they take.
or.......
2. He has some miraculous turn around in his evaluating skills.
I don't see Kyper, McShay or Lombardi being paid to get it wrong. I don't see them working so hard and staking their reputations to try to get it wrong.
And while I hope that a kid like Hoyer can end up being our answer and a franchise QB, I believe basing a lot of faith in that or overstating what we have seen based on a few outings is pre-mature at best.
And that has been posted. Things like going with Hoyer as the starter going into next season would be fine. And that having Hoyer would allow a rookie to sit for a year.
You yourself have been upset with people making excuses for many who have been here in the past. I don't blame you there. And in that same light, I don't see how making excuses for someone who is here now is any different.
While we all hope for the best, Lombardi has a record out there to look at. And when looking at that record, I can't say I blame people for their concern in regards to Lombardi.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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My hope is one of two things happen here. Either......
1. He is simply a voice in the room that has one of several opinions. So that his wishes aren't necessarily the path they take.
PitDAWG, this option is already in place. Most everyone forgets Ray Farmer. Banner preaches all the time it is a group effort between Himself, Lombardi, Farmer, and Chud.
If you recall from my earlier post, I thought it was strange just prior to the draft Banner hired Farmer. It seemed so out of the blue and no one, media, questioned it. I will almost bet most of the personal moves and grunt work is done by Farmer. Remember Lombardi was originally hired as a VP. For some reason, Farmer wasn't offered the GM position, so they changed Lombardi's title to GM and gave Farmer assistant GM.
I find it very strange Banner does most of the pressers and not Lombardi. Isn't Lombardi suppose to be the TV guy? In my opinion, Banner is paying a debt to Lombardi hiring him. I believe Lombardi brings something to the table, but running the whole show I think he falls flat, thus, the committee.
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Sorry if this was mentioned, I did not see it, but has anyone consider Browns trading for a QB?
At one time I thought Nick Foles was an option, but it looks like Kelly is moving in this direction. Next up, Kirk Cousins as possible candidate. Things might get a little shaky between RG iii and Cousins in Washington. Ryan Mallett's name keeps appearing in the rumor mill not sure if any truth exist or not.
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For all the bashing/questioning of Lombardi's past statements, there is really only one thing that matters.
Would he have selected a player that he liked at that draft position, and would that player wind up being productive for the team. You can be wrong on 31 of 32 other players, just not on the one that you are drafting.
That is the difference between a talking head and a team player personnel director.
So far... results are inconclusive, Mingo.... eh, and McFadden is missing.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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I find it very strange Banner does most of the pressers and not Lombardi.
Please don't get me started...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
My hope is one of two things happen here. Either......
1. He is simply a voice in the room that has one of several opinions. So that his wishes aren't necessarily the path they take.
PitDAWG, this option is already in place. Most everyone forgets Ray Farmer. Banner preaches all the time it is a group effort between Himself, Lombardi, Farmer, and Chud.
If you recall from my earlier post, I thought it was strange just prior to the draft Banner hired Farmer. It seemed so out of the blue and no one, media, questioned it. I will almost bet most of the personal moves and grunt work is done by Farmer. Remember Lombardi was originally hired as a VP. For some reason, Farmer wasn't offered the GM position, so they changed Lombardi's title to GM and gave Farmer assistant GM.
I find it very strange Banner does most of the pressers and not Lombardi. Isn't Lombardi suppose to be the TV guy? In my opinion, Banner is paying a debt to Lombardi hiring him. I believe Lombardi brings something to the table, but running the whole show I think he falls flat, thus, the committee.
Banner said that in order for them to be able to hire Farmer he had to be promoted, and assistant GM was a promotion. Thus they had to promote Lombardi to GM. This was all brought up during one of the pressers they had right about that time.
As far as Lombardi goes, he is one voice, but not the only voice, He is not the only, or final evaluation. He is voice does carry weight though. I think that he can be extremely successful in that role.
We made 2 trades in the last draft, and picked up higher 2014 draft picks. I think that can be a positive. I love the calculated risk taken there. Even though we need help this year, I would be fine if, for example, we could trade our 2nd round pick for a 1st next year. I love adding value.
As far as pressers, I could not care less who does them. They rarely say much of anything of importance anyway, so who cares who is up there misdirecting? When Heckert was here, he told you where he stood on anything. These guys aren't going to do that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
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My hope is one of two things happen here. Either......
1. He is simply a voice in the room that has one of several opinions. So that his wishes aren't necessarily the path they take.
PitDAWG, this option is already in place. Most everyone forgets Ray Farmer. Banner preaches all the time it is a group effort between Himself, Lombardi, Farmer, and Chud.
If you recall from my earlier post, I thought it was strange just prior to the draft Banner hired Farmer. It seemed so out of the blue and no one, media, questioned it. I will almost bet most of the personal moves and grunt work is done by Farmer. Remember Lombardi was originally hired as a VP. For some reason, Farmer wasn't offered the GM position, so they changed Lombardi's title to GM and gave Farmer assistant GM.
I find it very strange Banner does most of the pressers and not Lombardi. Isn't Lombardi suppose to be the TV guy? In my opinion, Banner is paying a debt to Lombardi hiring him. I believe Lombardi brings something to the table, but running the whole show I think he falls flat, thus, the committee.
Banner said that in order for them to be able to hire Farmer he had to be promoted, and assistant GM was a promotion. Thus they had to promote Lombardi to GM. This was all brought up during one of the pressers they had right about that time.
As far as Lombardi goes, he is one voice, but not the only voice, He is not the only, or final evaluation. He is voice does carry weight though. I think that he can be extremely successful in that role.
We made 2 trades in the last draft, and picked up higher 2014 draft picks. I think that can be a positive. I love the calculated risk taken there. Even though we need help this year, I would be fine if, for example, we could trade our 2nd round pick for a 1st next year. I love adding value.
As far as pressers, I could not care less who does them. They rarely say much of anything of importance anyway, so who cares who is up there misdirecting? When Heckert was here, he told you where he stood on anything. These guys aren't going to do that.
i hate this whole value thing. trading down and all that crap is fine if we was already a winning organization. we are anything but.
when do we stop trying to trade down and start drafting so we can WIN? being under the cap is great!!!! having a bunch of draft picks every year is great!!!!
in order to achieve all that, guess what we have been doing? LOSING GAMES. and i'm sick of losing.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
Banner said that in order for them to be able to hire Farmer he had to be promoted, and assistant GM was a promotion. Thus they had to promote Lombardi to GM. This was all brought up during one of the pressers they had right about that time.
I understand, but why did Banner need to hire Farmer? Based on your post they promoted Lombardi to hire Farmer. It is obvious this was not planned.
As for Pressers, I totally agree, but still since when does a President give pressers and not the GM?
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Quote:
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Banner said that in order for them to be able to hire Farmer he had to be promoted, and assistant GM was a promotion. Thus they had to promote Lombardi to GM. This was all brought up during one of the pressers they had right about that time.
I understand, but why did Banner need to hire Farmer? Based on your post they promoted Lombardi to hire Farmer. It is obvious this was not planned.
As for Pressers, I totally agree, but still since when does a President give pressers and not the GM?
Maybe they never thought that they would be able to get both guys, and when they found that they could, they had to make changes to their plan.
I don't see this as a negative.
As far as the pressers, hell, how often does whoever the GM is in Dallas five press conferences? lol Jerry Jones is usually out there as far as I can tell. It's different for different teams. Banner enjoys that role, and he knows, and knew, that Lombardi was/is a lightning rod in town, so he keeps him out of the public eye. I don't see that as unreasonable.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Regarding the Lombardi thing as a Journalist.
1. To grade him on his ability to draft via the Pre Draft bs...is not right. The Draftnicks must make a board and draft for EVERY TEAM ALL 32
While as a GM they are making a board and draft for ONE TEAM. So its still the draft but I think a total different animal.
2. What I do know...he criticized Holmgren/Heckert on the choice of Weeden at #22 and stated it was a move out of desperation. He was correct. He also criticized the expenditures of draft picks to move up for Trent....again he was correct.
3. He went and got two QBs to add to the team in 2013...Campbell who seems to be a perfect "BACK UP" and Hoyer who he was high on well before we got him. Who happened to be a breath of fresh air. Now we embark "AGAIN" on our most important decision regarding this franchise becoming relevant to the NFL...drafting a QB. We got an excellent think tank involved...we got a bevie of different talent coming in many with first round grades...All QBs move up in the draft and if you do not need that Franchise QB rarely will be BPA unless there is a special one at overall #1.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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To me that's like saying Kyper and McShay don't try to get it right.
They try, but what is their track record? I consider myself a draft outsider because I don't know enough about college talent or NFL team needs or draft tendencies. But it seems to me guys like Kyper, McShay and others do an awful lot of analysis but other than the top ten picks they aren't all that right about their assessments.
If I'm wrong about this through not having paid enough attention someone correct me. But from the little I've paid attention they seem no more legit than anyone else whether it's who getting picked where or who has the talent to have a long NFL career.
I think their talent is knowing a lot about a lot of players through study but not necessarily predicting draft outcomes or careers.
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I find it very strange Banner does most of the pressers and not Lombardi. Isn't Lombardi suppose to be the TV guy?
Lombardi is the TV guy. But Banner is so calculating in his comments and statements that he's the clear answer to the question of who should speak for the team on FO matters.
No one, and I bet no one, can draw Banner into saying something he doesn't want to say or make him elaborate on something in which he doesn't want to elaborate on. I think he tells the truth while not leaving a lot of room for reading between the lines.
Banner is one shrewd little dude.
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You yourself have been upset with people making excuses for many who have been here in the past. I don't blame you there. And in that same light, I don't see how making excuses for someone who is here now is any different.
I agree w/that. I do what to note that you did not see me doing that. I didn't excuse anything.
I fully understand why people are skeptical of Lombardi. I don't think he is a "clown" or an "imposter," but he has some proving to do.
With that said, Banner has made it clear that they work as a team on decisions. The team includes Banner, Lombardi, Farmer, and Chud. It's too early to make a firm evaluation, but I like most of the moves they have made.
What encourages me more than anything is that we have a different owner. Junior sucked. He never had the fortitude to stick to a plan. Haslam has said he believes in continuity and he mentioned how the Steelers have used that mind-set for years and it was why they were successful. Therefore, I think we are in better shape.
Now, if Haslam changes his tune and starts firing key people, well.............I'll be changing my tune, too.
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Banner is one shrewd little dude.
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I agree w/that. I do what to note that you did not see me doing that. I didn't excuse anything.
I fully understand why people are skeptical of Lombardi. I don't think he is a "clown" or an "imposter," but he has some proving to do.
And I feel the very same way.
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With that said, Banner has made it clear that they work as a team on decisions. The team includes Banner, Lombardi, Farmer, and Chud. It's too early to make a firm evaluation, but I like most of the moves they have made.
I don't really take issue with the moves they've made in the FA market. However when it comes to this past draft, the jury is far from in on that. So I do remain cautious in my expectations either way in that regard.
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What encourages me more than anything is that we have a different owner. Junior sucked. He never had the fortitude to stick to a plan. Haslam has said he believes in continuity and he mentioned how the Steelers have used that mind-set for years and it was why they were successful. Therefore, I think we are in better shape.
Now, if Haslam changes his tune and starts firing key people, well.............I'll be changing my tune, too.
Here I could go either way. I mean who has been here since our return that you feel was worthy of sticking with for the long haul? I think continuity is a wonderful thing if people are growing over time. If they have are getting better and progressing.
But just sticking with people who aren't doing so? I don't believe in continuity just for the sake of saying you have continuity. I mean if our record is about the same three years from now, do we keep things the same? I know you haven't advocated that in the past and have used such records to promote change.
So I believe continuity is a great thing given you have the right people in place. Otherwise it's more of an exercise in futility and mediocrity at best. So for me it will take quite a while before I can form an opinion if continuity is a good choice with this group.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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They try, but what is their track record? I consider myself a draft outsider because I don't know enough about college talent or NFL team needs or draft tendencies. But it seems to me guys like Kyper, McShay and others do an awful lot of analysis but other than the top ten picks they aren't all that right about their assessments.
If I'm wrong about this through not having paid enough attention someone correct me. But from the little I've paid attention they seem no more legit than anyone else whether it's who getting picked where or who has the talent to have a long NFL career.
I think their talent is knowing a lot about a lot of players through study but not necessarily predicting draft outcomes or careers.
I believe each teams board would vary somewhat. And I believe that need to some extent causes some variation, especially at the QB position. The need of QB's in the NFL always causes that position to be over drafted in a lot of cases.
I believe we have some variables here to consider. What dj did was show a list of QB's that Lombardi bolstered. He didn't try to isolate one or two to prove a point. And I believe there's a difference between "having cause for concern" and "panic or attacking someone". I believe Vers pointed that out well and I agreed with him.
And I have to agree with you as well to some extent. Both Kyper and McShay get it wrong a lot of the time. However, neither of them have ever been an NFL GM, much less more than once. And I would have to say, while Lombardi gives me "cause for concern" had Banner have named either Kiper or McShay our GM, I would have been in "panic and attack" mode!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Regarding the Lombardi thing as a Journalist.
1. To grade him on his ability to draft via the Pre Draft bs...is not right. The Draftnicks must make a board and draft for EVERY TEAM ALL 32
I haven't seen anyone actually take him to task over mock drafts. It was the player evaluation side of it I've seen brought up.
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2. What I do know...he criticized Holmgren/Heckert on the choice of Weeden at #22 and stated it was a move out of desperation. He was correct. He also criticized the expenditures of draft picks to move up for Trent....again he was correct.
There were a host of experts saying they blew it with Weeden, but he as well as many were correct. And while he did blast them for giving up additional picks to acquire trent, his evaluation of Trent was that he was the best player in the draft after Luck and RG3. I believe if we want to discuss his comments about Trent, we should paint the entire picture.
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3. He went and got two QBs to add to the team in 2013...Campbell who seems to be a perfect "BACK UP" and Hoyer who he was high on well before we got him. Who happened to be a breath of fresh air. Now we embark "AGAIN" on our most important decision regarding this franchise becoming relevant to the NFL...drafting a QB. We got an excellent think tank involved...we got a bevie of different talent coming in many with first round grades...All QBs move up in the draft and if you do not need that Franchise QB rarely will be BPA unless there is a special one at overall #1.
And I believe that is the key here. Being able to evaluate and draft the right QB. If this group can get that right, we will turn the corner. If they don't, we're pretty much right where we are now.
I'm not even attempting to bash Lombardi here. what I am saying is there are very legit. reasons for some concern on the part of those showing it. Some show resounding confidence which I believe to be overblown. some have him crucified already which I believe too is overblown.
But I don't blame those with legitimate concern and I can easily see how it is justified. Really it's nothing more or less than that.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I really feel having Banner as the spokesman is quite appropriate. Banner has said the final decision of things rest with him. I have quoted that statement in other posts but there is a final decision in every corporation and he didn't shy away from taking responsibility in that respect. Quote:
Q: But someone has the final word, right?
A: Unambiguously, the answer is me. No matter if I'm making the decision or those we employ are making it, I'm accountable. I'm perfectly willing to take the blame. Hopefully, it goes well, and (everyone) gets some credit.
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/07/cleveland_browns_ceo_joe_banne_1.html
So this makes it obvious that Banner has to sign off on the decision, or who makes the decision. It's a really good interview for anyone who hasn't seen it.
So since we know that Banner is "the decider", what better way to get information than straight from the horses mouth?
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And while he did blast them for giving up additional picks to acquire trent, his evaluation of Trent was that he was the best player in the draft after Luck and RG3.
I don't know for a fact, but wasn't this the consensus opinion back then? If so, you can't hold him accountable for that one. The only evaluations that you can legitimately use as evidence against him would be ones for which there was at least a balance of opinions on. Let's see that list. It isn't good enough for Dj to simply point out that Lombardi liked Jamarcus Russell. We need to know how everyone else in comparable positions with Lombardi were evaluating Russell. When a divergence is discovered, for better or worse, then post about it. Until then, let's stop with these pointless "Lombardi liked X" posts. They are irrelevant unless accompanied by a representative set of evaluations from Lombardi's peers.
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