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Is TJ ever going to be a great coverage Safety? I doubt it.
And at this point, I doubt it as well.
But I don't think we NEED TJ to be "great" in pass coverage. I think we NEED our FS to be "great" in pass coverage as well as being able to comprehend the right angles getting to the ball (this last point I don't think Gipson did a very good job at). It be nice if he can have an above average vertical too.
I'm no X's and O's guy but when I think of a SS I think of a hard-hitting, block-shedding, run-stopping guy with a solid frame and speed. He's also charged with covering the TE along w/ LBs depending on scheme IIRC.
I think TJ does this well for the most part but does need improvement in the coverage part....I think most would agree that is a weakness in his game. But I'll contend a weakness that he is getting better at.
But I think the covers all the other attributes mentioned above. Plus, I like what he can do at the LOS and the point of attack. I think he is disruptive and isn't afraid to make the big hit.
Although it's justified that there are continuing concerns in pass coverage, I think much discussion should surround our ILBs. I think they both had subpar years. I'd also defer to others on their opinions of Gipson and his progression over the course of the year as a 22 year old starting for the first time and whether he can continue to improve or if we should consider another option?
I'm not trying to deflect this off Ward, but I think there are other positions that we were more dependent on pass coverage that may have also effected overall production of this defense as well.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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FYI Staying Healthy Boosts D'Qwell Jackson's Future Base Salary Figures Getting a bump in base salary for future years may seem like a reason for an NFL player to celebrate, but for D'Qwell Jackson, it might just end up being a dagger that increases his likelihood of getting released. There have already been questions as to whether the Browns will keep Jackson for next season because of how much money he is set to make. Jackson was originally set to count for $8.1 million against the salary cap in 2014, a figure that included a base salary of $2.6 million, a $1.4 million signing bonus, and a $4.1 million roster bonus. According to Brian McIntyre, an NFL reporter who has done salary cap reporting for years, Jackson increased his base salary for 2014 by remaining healthy: The $1.333 million increase in base salary brings Jackson's salary cap total to $9.43 million for 2014. We'll know by some time in March whether the Browns plan on retaining Jackson or not, since that is when his $4.1 million roster bonus is due. McIntyre also noted that Jackson's base salary for 2015-2016 also increased by $1.333 million in each season, meaning he'd be more expensive to keep down the road. With Jackson entering his ninth year, the Browns might opt to part ways with Jackson, especially if it allows them more flexibility to re-sign a guy like S T.J. Ward or C Alex Mack. http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/1/18/5...-salary-figures
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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2nd String
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Most of our points were given up in the fourth quarter in winnable games because the defense was tired! I Truly believe that letting our DC go is a Hugh Mistake!!! We need an offense coach to work with him. JMHO Go Browns!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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8.something hit and now it will be 9.something hit if that difference is the well he's got to go...I doubt it. I think he has 2014 If in 2015 it becomes a cap issue he might be gone...but I think the NEW coach should make the decision not the Bean counter. ILB is one of our weakest positions outside of DQ. We don't know if we will be a 4-3 or 3-4 team yet. We won't need that cap room in 2014 making it urgent to do the hard decisions like let him go. Keep him here a vet for the new HC will be good. Let him lead n break in an invested ILB from the draft n some others we bring in late draft or UDFA and make the hard decision in 2015.
Hey its the bed they made. 2014 is yes we want to win but its still and evaluation period for the New HC to start his ERA.
Jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I like DQ, but that contract is not team-friendly. I wonder what Heckert was thinking when he agreed to that deal? Was he going to cut DQ this year, too?
Maybe DQ will agree to redo his contract.
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Quote:
the Browns might opt to part ways with Jackson, especially if it allows them more flexibility to re-sign a guy like S T.J. Ward or C Alex Mack.
Ummm.... wasn't there recently a whole lot of talk about how we have the second most cap space of any team?
If we're that flush with cash, I cannot see $1.33 million being the determining factor here. Either we were going to keep him at the existing price, or we weren't.
In any case, I cannot possibly understand "it allows them more flexibility to sign [Ward/Mack]". We have a TON of money, signing everyone and more isn't an issue.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I am not a cap guy, so maybe you're right.
I do know that teams have gotten themselves into trouble because of not being responsible when they do have a lot of room. You bring in free agents. You pay your rookies well. You give your stars more money. You pay older guys more money than they deserve. No, it may not hurt them this year, but that is a bad practice.
Again, I am ignorant when it comes to the cap and how much guys are worth. I like DQ and hope we keep him. He just seems like the kind of guy that would be allowed to walk. Heck, half the board thinks he sucks and needs replaced. They say all his tackles come 5 to 10 yards down the field.
The way things are going around here, I would venture to say that if we let him walk, most posters will freak out about how stupid we are. If they keep him, most posters will say that the FO is clueless for keeping an aging, overpaid LBer.
And the drum beats on ...........
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but thats just it, i don't think he is overpaid.
he is an ancher to our defense, and a leader, you said so yourself before in other threads.
the thing is, his contract doesn't put us remotely in any type of cap binding. we only think that because of they way Banner has done contracts in the past.
and i just don't agree with the cap situation some times.
theres a different between being under the cap, or smart spending, and being cheap. i have positive feelings the FO is gonna get it done by not cutting DQ, and re signing Ward and Mack, but if they don't, imo, it shows they are being cheap, and that isn't good for me, because we wanna win the cap game, when in reality, the only thing we will be accomplishing is making more holes to fill.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I am not really arguing. I was just making a point that I doubt he'll be back unless he redoes his deal. I could be wrong. It's not that big of a deal.
I do think I know where you are going though. And I would like to remind you--and others--that Banner's handling of the cap was the primary reason that the Eagles REMAINED contenders for so many years. He was regarded as a master of the cap and always seemed to make the right moves. The fans might have not liked some of those moves, but he was right in what he did.
I have no problem w/people questioning his people skills and ability to draft players, but I do have a problem w/anyone questioning his understanding of the cap and who to keep and who to let walk. You guys will be barking up the wrong tree on that one. Big time.
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oh i understand.
i guess all i was saying is, i don't want the FO to be cheap. i hope that when it comes to the players, they draft/FA a guy that they hope will take over the spot, THAN release/trade away the player, other than cut him without a plan, ya know?
i understand banner was doing exactly that, i just hope he doesn't deviate from that, is all i'm saying.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Okay.............my mistake. I apologize.
I really like DQ. I hope we get something worked out, but who knows---maybe we make a significant play in FA at that position?
I really don't know. It's all speculation.
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I think if DQ gets cut when we're so under the cap that the defense will find a way to play worse.
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is there a good LB, who i will say...is at least on par with DQ coming out in FA this year?
what i'm thinking, is that we need to at least find an upgrade over robertson if we stay the 3-4, and just draft the future for DQ's replacement, get what i'm saying?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Just to add some numbers to the speculation...
The Browns had $25 million dollars in unused cap space in 2013. That was after a rollover of $14.3 million of unused space in 2012. I don't know if that means they get to roll over $25 million to next year or just the $10.7 million they were under this year. They currently are $24.4 million under next year's projected cap before any rollover, which means they will have either $35.1 million or $49.4 million to re-sign their FAs and add new players depending on how the rollover works year-to-year. That is assuming nobody on the books right now is released. If they cut both Weeden (-$2 million) and Campbell (+$2.25 million), the net hit/gain basically offsets and it does not change our available cap space. Cutting DQ would add another $5.2 million in space, but we would have to find another leader on defense.
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Butler is a good LBer. He plays w/SD. He's young........25 or 26. He is a 3-down LBer. Will be a hot commodity.
Spikes is another option, although that thing right before the playoffs seemed weird. He's young, too. Around 26. He is not good in pass coverage, but plays the run very well.
I like Dansby, but he is 32.
Another guy we may consider is Pat Angerer. He has been hurt a lot, but he is a very good player who finds the ball.
A sleeper might be Vinnie Rey from the Bengals. He played for Ray Malauga or whatever his name is and actually played better than Ray. He's a young guy, too.
Draft wise........I really like Skov from Stanford. He finds the ball. I say he is underrated because of some physical things. The guy makes tackles.
I think CJ Mosely moves inside. He is very dynamic. He is very fast and can defend against the pass.
One more guy...............not well known.........Yawin Smallwood from Conn. He is very good in pass defense and is a consistent tackler. He may be available in the third.
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Thanks Steve.
What do you think we'll do w/DQ?
I kinda get the leader thing, but man.........that defense was obviously lacking leadership last year. We melted down when it counted and when it got tough. I don't really blame DQ. I think Haden, Taylor, and Ward think they are the leaders, but I don't get the feeling they are positive leaders.
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~ Legend
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Quote:
is there a good LB, who i will say...is at least on par with DQ coming out in FA this year?
what i'm thinking, is that we need to at least find an upgrade over robertson if we stay the 3-4, and just draft the future for DQ's replacement, get what i'm saying?
Donald Butler played very well this year with the Chargers.
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I like DQ, but that contract is not team-friendly. I wonder what Heckert was thinking when he agreed to that deal? Was he going to cut DQ this year, too?
Maybe DQ will agree to redo his contract.
Rubin is another that should agree to reconstruct his contract. Before anyone twists words, I'm not saying I think Rube stinks, should get cut or sucks - just saying he needs to re-constructure his contract.
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Hall of Famer
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Thanks! That is the type of input that we are needing and presents real value to this board... 
Last edited by bbrowns32; 01/20/14 05:34 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Yeah, he is the other guy who might be sent packing unless he redoes his deal.
It sucks, but it's business.
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well, i think leadership is learned through the coaches as well, Vers.
i'm not saying its a 100 percent excuse, but what does our Team know about TRUE leadership when every single player we have drafted since the 2008 draft has known nothing but losing seasons?
as far as players go, does leadership and accountability go further in losing organizations or winning ones?
so far, the only good player we have on our team that has known what winning feelings like is Kruger, but he wasn't even a starter.
at the same time, the argument can be made the other way. Norv WAS a winner. I'm not sure about Horton, so i dunno if he was on that staff that went to the SB against the steelers.
i think coaches have as much to do with that as players,
also, i think you said this before, our QB has a lot to do with that. i don't care what people say with regards to stats, there was just a different ENERGY when hoyer was in. you could feel that pulse, ya know?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Love doing it. Enjoy it. Will do it more if you guys stop w/all of the nonsensical, woe is me, crap. 
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Quote:
What do you think we'll do w/DQ?
Well, it's hard for me to say. I don't think if we cut him it will be because of how he impacts the cap. I don't think we can adequately replace him in FA with the cap savings ($5.2 million) to make it worth it. The actual cash savings of cutting him is what I think would be the motivator for Banner (roughly $8 million if cut before his roster bonus pays out.)
Not that it's his money, but I could see him doing it on principle.
I didn't think they would fire the head coach they selected after one year either, so I don't pretend to know what their thought process is.
As a fan, all I care about in terms of contracts is cap space. I don't know if I would feel the same way if I was writing the checks.
I'm not answering your question because I just really don't know. My gut says they will cut.
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Swish & Steve pretty much covered where I'm coming from on this. There's no reason to be cheap, especially when we're able to carry over so much unused space from last year.
If nothing else, that unused space could make for some mighty nice signing bonuses.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I really like Rey in FA or Skov in the draft as well. Think I like Skov better but not sure he will last till our third and wouldn't want to take him up at #37. He may be there at our 3rd but once he's not, then he's not. I kind of hope he looks average or bad at the combine, increasing our chances of him in the 3rd.
The other ILB I like a lot in the draft is Preston Brown from Louisville. If we're staying in the 3-4 I would be very happy if we got Skov in the 3rd and Brown at 4b or 5.
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Quote:
Well, it's hard for me to say. I don't think if we cut him it will be because of how he impacts the cap. I don't think we can adequately replace him in FA with the cap savings ($5.2 million) to make it worth it. The actual cash savings of cutting him is what I think would be the motivator for Banner (roughly $8 million if cut before his roster bonus pays out.)
Most people agree that we need an upgrade at ILB.. most people agree that DQ is far better than Robertson.... so if you release DQ, then you are left with the lesser of the two and now you need to upgrade TWO spots.... and if you don't come out of it with two ILBs, who are BOTH better than DQ, then you didn't make your team better. So unless his contract is really hindering our ability to do other things, which I don't believe it is, I'm not even sure why you would consider it.
yebat' Putin
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j/c
I like DQ too, but agree with Vers his contract is not team friendly. Banner is not very contract friendly with guys 30 or over.
I think DQ's fate depends on new coach and how costly the first pick in the draft. If they have to give up a lot of draft picks to get their guy, they may pick up the tab on DQ. Otherwise, I think they use their second pick to get a new MLB.
Banner made mention several times the goal is build through the draft.
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Quote:
Think I like Skov better but not sure he will last till our third and wouldn't want to take him up at #37. He may be there at our 3rd but once he's not, then he's not. I kind of hope he looks average or bad at the combine, increasing our chances of him in the 3rd.
I didn't care much for Skov after reading about him. Poor measurables. Then, I watched him play and was like............Wow!!! The guy knows the plays before they are run. It's amazing. Reminds me of Spielman in terms of how well they understand the game. He can hit, too.
I think he probably won't do too well at the Combine. Measurables are not his strong suit. It would be great if we nabbed him int he third.
I haven't studied Brown yet. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.
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If they have to give up a lot of draft picks to get their guy, they may pick up the tab on DQ. Otherwise, I think they use their second pick to get a new MLB.
This is the logic that kills me.. is DQ a better MLB than Little is a #2 WR? than either of our OGs are? than our FS is? than our RB is? Why would you create a hole, just so you can use a draft pick to fill it, when you have other, more pressing, needs?
And if we stay in the 3-4 then I would ask, if you draft this new MLB, who is going to play beside him? Robertson? Some mythical FA that we may or may not be able to get? and if we go get a FA ILB that's better than DQ, he's going to cost as much or more than DQ...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
What do you think we'll do w/DQ?
Well, it's hard for me to say. I don't think if we cut him it will be because of how he impacts the cap. I don't think we can adequately replace him in FA with the cap savings ($5.2 million) to make it worth it. The actual cash savings of cutting him is what I think would be the motivator for Banner (roughly $8 million if cut before his roster bonus pays out.)
Not that it's his money, but I could see him doing it on principle.
I didn't think they would fire the head coach they selected after one year either, so I don't pretend to know what their thought process is.
As a fan, all I care about in terms of contracts is cap space. I don't know if I would feel the same way if I was writing the checks.
I'm not answering your question because I just really don't know. My gut says they will cut.
Is it not more the contract and not the actual payout? My point giving DQ a big contract sets the stage for other contracts. I think this is where Banner shines. He keeps big contracts to a minimum and relies a lot on scouting staff bring in players.
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Well, that is the big question, DC.
Half the board thinks that DQ stinks. They wouldn't want him if he was cheap.
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Quote:
This is the logic that kills me.. is DQ a better MLB than Little is a #2 WR? than either of our OGs are? than our FS is? than our RB is? Why would you create a hole, just so you can use a draft pick to fill it, when you have other, more pressing, needs?
And if we stay in the 3-4 then I would ask, if you draft this new MLB, who is going to play beside him? Robertson? Some mythical FA that we may or may not be able to get? and if we go get a FA ILB that's better than DQ, he's going to cost as much or more than DQ...
Is Little due a new contract? Otherwise, he is still on rookie contract. Big difference compared to DQ. Two guards are not paid big money. There are options next season at FS.
Browns will look to replace Little in a draft stacked with talent. A Little type receiver can be had in third or fourth round. I am also assuming Gordon is seen as what many call the #1 receiver. I can also see Cleveland seeking a RB in the third and fourth. All this depends on how much of investment is needed for the first pick.
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I haven't studied Brown yet. Thanks for the tip. I'll look into it.
He played great in the Bowl game vs. Miami. Really made an impact, especially in the first half. Miami likes to run fist and Brown pretty much shut them down. What I didn't like was in the second half it looked like he started to guess a little, but I don't know if that wasn't just Strong's defensive scheme... attacking holes.
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Cool. Thanks.
Btw-----------did you watch Skov vs. Michigan State?
If so............was that an unreal performance, or what? Man, that guy had me salivating.
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Haven't seen it yet! It's still in the DVR. I think it was vs Oregon that sold me.
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Check it out. Amazing performance.
Started researching Brown. Guy is huge. Hard to find stuff on him, though.
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With Quinn and us switching to his defense we'd be looking at this:
DE: Jabaal Sheard / Quinton Groves / Armonty Bryant
DT: Ahtyba Rubin / Billy Winn
DT: Phil Taylor / John Hughes / Ishmaa'ily Kitchen
DE: Desmond Bryant / Paul Kruger
SAM: Barkevious Mingo
MIKE: DQ Jackson
WILL: Craig Robertson
Start Sheard or Kruger. Just get your best pass rusher at that spot.
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If I'm not mistaken, Quinn ran a 3-4 while with the Florida Gators.
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There's almost no difference. The LEO stands up and can also drop in to coverage.
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