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He's our Randy Moss.
A headache, but a God gifted player.
If he keeps his nose clean, Moss wouldn't be worthy of holding Gordon's jock strap. Look at what Gordon has done... with the QBs that he's had throwing to him. FFS, he's leading the NFL in receiving yards and he was out the first two games on suspension.
He has to live with his demons and get clean and stay clean.
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j/c
The only negative about Gordon I will mention is that he is hoooorrrrible in rain. His two worst games by far were rain games. Sloppy turf probably favors shorter strides.
Side note; Randy Moss is a good comparison. If Weeden were our QB I'd want a Randy Ratio where we just tell him to throw it towards Gordon no matter what. Dude can't make reads.
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IIRC, Stage 2 allows for up to 10 random tests throughout the month .... and they test for everything.
I doubt that many guys get much past the stage 2 testing.
I doubt that he's on any PEDs. He's just a supremely talented kid.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
He's our Randy Moss.
A headache, but a God gifted player.
If he keeps his nose clean, Moss wouldn't be worthy of holding Gordon's jock strap.
Moss is the most physically gifted receiver to ever play in the NFL
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this off season will be the big test...he will have eaten from the apple of success everyone will want to be around him and tempt him to party with them. It will be a tough test for him if he passes I think he will make it. He will be at the cross roads! Please, I do pray for the kid! He is special - we have not had special here for a long long time.
for those who have stated what we need here the most is WR WR WR! We got a kid doing what no other WR in the NFL has done before, the 3 games are amazing and frankly the season has been amazing...and yet we have a poor record.
An Elite WR is not the HOLY GRAIL like some here have thought. It makes for some exciting football to watch and stats to be proud of. But its not what will give you Wins.
Its all about the QB...there should be no other priority on O until that is established.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
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He's our Randy Moss.
A headache, but a God gifted player.
If he keeps his nose clean, Moss wouldn't be worthy of holding Gordon's jock strap.
Moss is the most physically gifted receiver to ever play in the NFL
Gordon is on pace to crush Moss' best season ever (yards) and he's going to do it in two fewer games.
If he stays on pace (1723 yds), he will register the 5th most receiving yards in a single season in NFL history, displacing Marvin Harrison and being behind only Megatron, Jerry Rice, Isaac Bruce, and Charley Hannigan... and doing it only 14 games (which only Hannigan played that few).
You might need to revise your statement after this season 
And Gordon is not a headache except or those that stay focused on what was instead of what is.
He's clean and he's producing like no other Cleveland Brown ever has. Enjoy it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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this off season will be the big test...he will have eaten from the apple of success everyone will want to be around him and tempt him to party with them. It will be a tough test for him if he passes I think he will make it. He will be at the cross roads! Please, I do pray for the kid! He is special - we have not had special here for a long long time.
for those who have stated what we need here the most is WR WR WR! We got a kid doing what no other WR in the NFL has done before, the 3 games are amazing and frankly the season has been amazing...and yet we have a poor record.
An Elite WR is not the HOLY GRAIL like some here have thought. It makes for some exciting football to watch and stats to be proud of. But its not what will give you Wins.
Its all about the QB...there should be no other priority on O until that is established.
JMHO
a #1 WR absolutely gives you wins. i agree, i don't think they are the holy grail, but to say a WR won't give you any wins is very ill informed.
you think detroit goes to the playoffs without Megatron? do you think we win any of our games this year without gordon? you think the falcons go that deep into the playoffs without Julio Jones?
hell, do you think brady goes undefeated that season without Moss? the QB is the most important playmaker on the team. the second most important playmaker? the WR.
the WR bails their QB's out when they are rushed, when they throw Craptastic passes, they outrun DB's and cosistently beat the opposing teams best CB.
without Gordon, we aren't even in a position to beat the pats in the 4th QTR. hell, was it the steelers? without him, it would've been a SHUT OUT. he was the only one generating anything.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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1. Josh Gordon CLE 1400 2. Calvin Johnson DET 1348 3. Andre Johnson HOU 1277 4. Antonio Brown PIT 1240 5. A.J. Green CIN 1175
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Also, Gordon is averaging 19.7 yards/catch. That is just incredible.
Calvin Johnson checks in at 18 yards/catch.
These are the top 2 yards/catch in the top 50 receivers int he NFL. In fact, you have to get down to the 75th receiver in the NFL to find a receiver with a higher yards/catch average. That guy is Kenny Stills of the Saints, and he has 25 catches for 495 yards. (19.8 per catch)
Gordon has the most catches of 20+ yards in the NFL.(24) He is tied with AJ Green for most catches of 40+ yards.
Man, think about that .... he has a total of 71 catches, and almost 1/3 of those go for 10 or mroe yards ....... and 8 go for 40 or more yards. Incredible.
Considering that he has done this while having missed 2 games is almost unbelievable.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Time for those who wanted to see a trade for Gordon to sit down at the table and have a little crow.
Come now. You know who you are. Just add a little salt and pepper it wont be to hard to swallow.
You do not trade young talent. If they have problems you manage them. Not every player that comes into the league is going to be squeaky clean like Peyton Manning. Some guys have to mature. Think Cris Carter.
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Extremely well said.  When he stiff armed Talib, it was over from there. That other tiny little corner had no chance to catch or keep up with him. Josh is a freak. I will reiterate the need to continue to vote for him and get him to Hawaii. Back up our young stud peoples!
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Well, I never said to definitely trade him, but that I could see why they would if they decided to d so.
If that requires eating crow, then shovel it. I'm just happy that we have a Browns player playing at an All Pro level.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Time for those who wanted to see a trade for Gordon to sit down at the table and have a little crow.
Come now. You know who you are. Just add a little salt and pepper it wont be to hard to swallow.
You do not trade young talent. If they have problems you manage them. Not every player that comes into the league is going to be squeaky clean like Peyton Manning. Some guys have to mature. Think Cris Carter.
That's not right..,, those that wanted to trade him never said the kid wasn't talented. They simply said that we could get some good picks for him and relieve ourselves of a potential headache in the future.
it's logical thinking. I happen to disagree with it, but there is no denying the logic in it.
As it stands right now, we still have the option to trade him in the off season and I guarantee you, we'll get a hell of a lot more for him than we would have 2 months ago.
But I still don't want to trade him.. I like the kid. I like what he's done on the field. What's not to like.
As for off field issues, I'm sure worried about it. But the value he brings on the field seems to outweigh that concern. At least for me it does. Not sure I'll feel that way if we find ourselves in the thick of a playoff battle and he screws up and can't play. But for that talent, I'm willing to take that risk.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What Gordon is doing is really fun to watch and is one of the reasons for optimism looking forward.. but let's look at a few other factors.. We are rushing the ball barely 22 times a game and will be lucky to get to 1300 yards... in Moss's best season the Vikings ran the ball over 30 times a game for almost 2400 yards... It's a positive that he can still do it but it has to be considered into the stats, Gordon is just about our only weapon with Cameron being second... Plus we play almost every game from behind...
Now extrapolating out his numbers is cool and all but our last 3 games are in Cleveland, in New York, and in Pittsburgh... there is the potential there for some very bad weather... so I'm not sure I'd consider it a given that he's going to average 130 yards and a TD over the last 3 games...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Time for those who wanted to see a trade for Gordon to sit down at the table and have a little crow.
Come now. You know who you are. Just add a little salt and pepper it wont be to hard to swallow.
You do not trade young talent. If they have problems you manage them. Not every player that comes into the league is going to be squeaky clean like Peyton Manning. Some guys have to mature. Think Cris Carter.
That's not right..,, those that wanted to trade him never said the kid wasn't talented. They simply said that we could get some good picks for him and relieve ourselves of a potential headache in the future.
it's logical thinking. I happen to disagree with it, but there is no denying the logic in it.
As it stands right now, we still have the option to trade him in the off season and I guarantee you, we'll get a hell of a lot more for him than we would have 2 months ago.
But I still don't want to trade him.. I like the kid. I like what he's done on the field. What's not to like.
As for off field issues, I'm sure worried about it. But the value he brings on the field seems to outweigh that concern. At least for me it does. Not sure I'll feel that way if we find ourselves in the thick of a playoff battle and he screws up and can't play. But for that talent, I'm willing to take that risk.
but that was a problem i had with some posters with regards to that. they want to trade away the only elite playmaker on the offensive side of the ball because he is struggling keeping clean. and? not every player gets it at 20-22 years old.
hell, can some of y'all imagine the dumb crap you still did at that age? i joined the military at 18, and i STILL did dumb stuff every now and then, because regardless of you being in the military or playing in the nfl, you're freaking 22.
gordon was a sure thing. and people wanted to trade him because of character concerns? we want a team with squeky clean background? how did that work up for us with smart and tough mangini players in 2009. on yea, 5-11.
i'll take elite talent with character concerns any day of the week over smart and tough, and slow and old. elite players is what gets you to the playoffs, and besides, half the posters were acting like he did something serious.
you got guys getting DUI's and manslaughter, plus assaults and gun charges, yet fans on this team wanna trade a player because he listens to "Cypress Hill - hits from the bong" one too many times. like our team just has the luxury and winning background to trade away elite talent because we can still win without them...oh wait. we can't.
this guy is 22, going on 23 next season. we absolutely need to keep him. can you imagine our franchise QB having a #1 WR and a beats TE to throw to? thats a situation you don't ruin. period.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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What Gordon is doing is really fun to watch and is one of the reasons for optimism looking forward.. but let's look at a few other factors.. We are rushing the ball barely 22 times a game and will be lucky to get to 1300 yards... in Moss's best season the Vikings ran the ball over 30 times a game for almost 2400 yards... It's a positive that he can still do it but it has to be considered into the stats, Gordon is just about our only weapon with Cameron being second... Plus we play almost every game from behind...
So, you're saying that Gordon is even more impressive because he doesn't have a running game that defenses need to respect?
Other than that, I'm not sure how that matters.... it comes down purely to touches and yards per completion. Gordon is surpassing anything that Moss ever did.
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Now extrapolating out his numbers is cool and all but our last 3 games are in Cleveland, in New York, and in Pittsburgh... there is the potential there for some very bad weather... so I'm not sure I'd consider it a given that he's going to average 130 yards and a TD over the last 3 games...
Of course nothing is written in stone, but I'd put the odds in Gordon's favor at this point.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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What I'm really saying is that stats need to be put in perspective... if Gordon can be as good as Moss only without the "quitting on your team" personality trait, I'll be very happy...
yebat' Putin
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What I'm really saying is that stats need to be put in perspective... if Gordon can be as good as Moss only without the "quitting on your team" personality trait, I'll be very happy...
93 yards away from better than Randy Moss w/ Tom Brady throwing to him!
#gmstrong
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What I'm really saying is that stats need to be put in perspective... if Gordon can be as good as Moss only without the "quitting on your team" personality trait, I'll be very happy...
When his stats are being viewed in the same perspective as all of the others - which is total production in a season by a player - there is no other perspective to keep it within. It is already exactly as it should be.
With 1,400 yards (in only 11 games, to boot!), he is already tied for the 68th Best Season of ANY WR in NFL history.
He is 200 yards ahead of the best Braylon Edwards could do with a full 16 games.
He is only 2 yards behind Anquan Boldin's best season ever, only 31 yards behind Larry Fitzgerald's best season ever, and a mere 51 yards behind Terrell Owens' best season.
Want to add some external perspective?? Ok - He is doing it in his sophomore season, as a 22 year old, with a particularly underwhelming QB carousel throwing to him, in an offense that cannot run the ball.
As a Cleveland Brown it is already a historic season. As an NFL player, it stands to be one of the best, ever (I predict no less than one of the Top 20 seasons, ever).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Do you think that the FO was trying to motivate him by putting him on the block?
(If so, it worked and was brilliant. Not sure if I buy it.)
Were they tired of his effort and the fear of him potentially leaving us stranded for a year (or more, likely permanently)?
Was Lombardi thinking that trading him for a reported 2nd rounder would be a good deal and all the reports were true? If so, then...
If we would draft Evans, then you are looking at a 6 5' beast fighting for the ball, with Cameron, and Gordon. Get a decent slot, or light a fire under little's butt, and things are starting to heat up.
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Do you think that the FO was trying to motivate him by putting him on the block?
(If so, it worked and was brilliant. Not sure if I buy it.)
Were they tired of his effort and the fear of him potentially leaving us stranded for a year (or more, likely permanently)?
Was Lombardi thinking that trading him for a reported 2nd rounder would be a good deal and all the reports were true? If so, then...
If we would draft Evans, then you are looking at a 6 5' beast fighting for the ball, with Cameron, and Gordon. Get a decent slot, or light a fire under little's butt, and things are starting to heat up.
I have no idea what they were thinking, or if they were even thinking it. I know that there was talk by the media, but that's it.
What I DO know is that the guy has been on fire all year, and in the last few weeks he has turned it up a notch and has unquestionably entered the rarefied air of Elite status..
I have no idea who Evans is, but if he is that tall and can actually run well and play (can run routes, block, etc..), then things could really get interesting.
More than anything, our offense needs a reliable QB that can hit targets in stride - and then we need a 2nd WR that can catch the ball reliably. If he happens to be a 6' 5" monster, so be it
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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but to say a WR won't give you any wins is very ill informed.
Nice words by the way and yet we had the two most prolific games by a WR in a row...and guess what we did not win.
I'm not saying that you do not need good WRs. I'm saying its not necessary to make a championship run with an elite WR. There will be a game or two where a win I guess will be there. I should have stated Championship caliber team instead of "WINS"
My point is Calvin Johnson never played in a SB, Andre Johnson never played in a SB, Larry Fitzgerald did play in ONE but they lost Warner after that and never came close to returning.
I'm saying that WRs - the need for an elite one is over rated. Do I wish to have one...sure especially since he is here already.
But if Fantasy Football has over stated the worth of WR to some of you guys...its not real football.
Never do I state...ever in a discussion that a team doesn't need a WR. Actually I'm on the record that a team needs 5 solid WRs...Disciplined, run good routes and have good hands.
Megatron...yes, they go to the playoffs with him or without him.
Julio Jones...yes the Falcons go to the playoffs with him or without him...or does not go to the playoffs.
In saying this do not interpret that as me saying those guys aren't special talents - but as far as Why a team makes it to the playoff or vie for a NFL Championship will not be predicated on if they have an ELITE WR or not.
JMHO but also a history of nfl backing it up.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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The exact same statement/argument can be made for EVERY position in the game, without exception.... with "a history of nfl backing it up".
Nobody needs "elite" at ANY position.... but it certainly never hurts to have it. Ever.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I admit that I wouldn't have been that upset with a Gordon trade at the time the Browns announced they were shopping him. Hence the sig, so I figure I better keep the sig since he has become one of the best wide receivers in the league because of it.
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~ Legend
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jc
I think people are losing it to be saying Gordon is better than Randy. At the end of the day you could make a very compelling argument that Randy is the best WR retired. That said, I can see Gordon being a top 10 wideout when he retires though.
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j/c
I like how the talk has turned from: "is he a true #1" to "is he truly elite?"....
and now, on to "is an elite player essential to a championship?"
I realize it's just another of those free-flowing threads... but the "whirlwind tour" just struck me as humorous. We fans are an entertaining lot.
_____________________________
I don't need a degree in the NFL college of x's & o's to see what a unique talent this kid is. I've watched him this year and often thought to myself: "Imagine what kind of production we'd get if he had just one consistent league-average QB throwing it to him all season..." Then, I just shake my head.
Think of this.... Josh Gordon has posted numbers like these:
1. with 4 qb changes in one season.
2. A season that is 2 games shorter than the 'head-to-head competition.'
3. In only his 2nd year as a pro.
4. At the age of 22.
5. Under 2 totally different O systems.
Let that marinate for just a minute, before you read on. I'll wait.
And... it's not just the numbers themselves that tell me what I need to know. What impresses me is his absolute drive to get yac. Even when he catches those messy-looking 'late ones' in traffic, I always see him at least try to position himself to extend the play. That's a competitive streak that nobody had to coach into him.
One season with a decent QB who plays all 16, and this kid has the potential to redefine the word 'record.' I really think he is that special. And in saying that, I guess I am saying "yep... by my book, he's a true #1." And, according to all the gurus on this board, that's all we should need him to be, to help propel this team. The fact (or perception) that he's always just one catch away from a potential touchdown puts him in the conversation for elite status, as far as I'm concerned.
Browns fans are so jaded by failure, so wounded by history that it's sometimes hard for them to accept good fortune when it visits their doorsteps. This kid is a special treat to watch as a pure football fan. The fact that he's doing for my team makes it that much more fun.
We really are seeing something special being born here- a career that was launched by a Browns FO. That in itself is worthy of note... no matter which Browns FO hired him. We actually drafted a game-changing player.
The Browns did that.
I don't know what's in this kid's future. And because of that, I'm choosing to not let "what hasn't yet happened" get in the way of my enjoying "what's happening now."
I won't let my "battered dawg syndrome" poison what I've seen this season... or make me worry about our future with him. Right now, I'm just having a great time watching a Cleveland Browns player 'produce' himself to the top of the league standings.
IMHO, we are seeing in Josh Gordon all the potential of a Blazer and a Canton address. The physical gifts are of the 'once in a generation' category. The determiner will be the "x-factor of greatness: heart, mind, spirit." And that's what makes his story so compelling to me.
I watch the Browns for a weekly fix of tradition, family, entertainment, and controlled violence.
I study the players, because people are fascinating to me.
Here's a comparison, from my professional slant:
QB's and WR's are the virtuoso performers in my job. They play the big concert halls as soloists, command the big bux, and get the recording contracts. They set the high-profile standard for 'professional excellence.' When they fail, they flame out- in spectacular fashion. When they succeed, they parlay their natural gifts and their learned experiences into a career that changes the way Common People view their particular craft.
Jascha Heifetz did it with a violin.
Emanuel Feuermann did it with a cello.
Otto Graham did it from the QB position.
Jerry Rice did it as a WR.
This kid has the potential to make us re-write Mr. Rice's entry to the ongoing story.
I'm just gonna watch this kid for as long as I can.... and clock his story. He has the potential to make us add his name to the list that includes Paul Warfield , Gary Collins, Brian Brennan and Webster Slaughter. Since this has always been an evaluation year for me, I'm more than happy to watch this kid flat-out BALL in a Browns uniform... and take the future as it comes.
This is game-changing talent.
And he plays for the Browns.
I say: "Enjoy him while you have him."
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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not the same and this is why...
more n more - especially by announcers/analysts they are saying so n so team needs that elite WR to be a Champion team. That is just incorrect...Champion Fantasy team yes...not NFL.
They have now add them to the list of priority.
QB, LT, Edge Rusher, Cover Corner...has been the rare breed
I always added another for 3-4 teams n that was NT.
But now they have added ELITE WR in there - Not Good WR but Elite...
Not by any other position have I seen Individual MONSTER GAMES by an elite WR only to have the team lose...SO SO MANY.
oh and the without EXCEPTION....sorry wrong.
QB you get elite there big time difference in the team! Oh you can have the Exception and WIN usually by that average QB having an amazing run btw. But consistently win...there is that exception and its QB. I hope you don't really think that.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
not the same and this is why...
more n more - especially by announcers/analysts they are saying so n so team needs that elite WR to be a Champion team. That is just incorrect...Champion Fantasy team yes...not NFL.
They have now add them to the list of priority.
QB, LT, Edge Rusher, Cover Corner...has been the rare breed
I always added another for 3-4 teams n that was NT.
But now they have added ELITE WR in there - Not Good WR but Elite...
Not by any other position have I seen Individual MONSTER GAMES by an elite WR only to have the team lose...SO SO MANY.
oh and the without EXCEPTION....sorry wrong.
QB you get elite there big time difference in the team! Oh you can have the Exception and WIN usually by that average QB having an amazing run btw. But consistently win...there is that exception and its QB. I hope you don't really think that.
well then you can make the same about any position EO.
Haden had a monster shut down game holding AJ green to 2 catches for 7 yards, he had 2 int, one of pick 6...
and we lost.
edge rusher? bryant is our elite guy, and he has monster games all the time, we still lose.
how bout LT? lmao, Joe T has been here how many years? and how many games have we won?
and QB? campbell has played really good, and we still lose.
the whole point is, you need ELITE TALENT to win. and that's in multiple positions, not just QB or whatever you deem puts cornerstones of franchises.
you can say all you want about the QB position too, which i mostly agree, except, who is going to get open if Gordon wasn't on the team this season? you're saying WR doesn't win you games? we'd be winless WITHOUT gordon, i hope you realize that.
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but that was a problem i had with some posters with regards to that. they want to trade away the only elite playmaker on the offensive side of the ball because he is struggling keeping clean. and? not every player gets it at 20-22 years old.
I don't disagree at all. But I'm saying that I understand the logic for wanting to trade him away.
I also don't know that he's struggling all that much to stay clean. Doesn't seem like it to me. But I'm on the outside looking in, so what the heck do I know.
I did some dumb things at that age. Drank a bit too much, ran around with the wrong women (actually, that might have been a good thing  )
But yeah, maturity wasn't there for me and dare I say, not for many of us.
Don't dismiss the effect of character or the lack thereof. Let's be honest, it can and has been a problem for lots of teams. So you can't just dismiss it out of hand.
A talented guy who can't be there when you need him isn't all that great to have. He doesn't do your team much good at all. So don't downplay that and pass it off as something of no or little concern.
Each player needs to be evaluated on his own merits. I think this front office looked at TRich and said, Hey, he's not that good, let's see what we can get. No threat of suspension in him. But talent wasn't there.
With Gordon, Talent IS there. A concern exists also. Sometimes you gotta weigh the pros and cons. I'm very glad that the Browns FO decided to keep him.
Can you imagine Gordon in a Denver Uni with Manning throwing to him. You think he's got a lotta yards now, ha, he'd be 300 or more yards ahead with a few more TD's with Manning as his QB.
So there is the answer for us, help him stay clean and get him a QB and a couple of guys to help take pressure off him. (RB, WR)
This kid could be better than Moss or Rice, I honestly see that kinda talent. we need to feed it.
#GMSTRONG
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not the same and this is why...
more n more - especially by announcers/analysts they are saying so n so team needs that elite WR to be a Champion team. That is just incorrect...Champion Fantasy team yes...not NFL.
They have now add them to the list of priority.
QB, LT, Edge Rusher, Cover Corner...has been the rare breed
I always added another for 3-4 teams n that was NT.
But now they have added ELITE WR in there - Not Good WR but Elite...
Not by any other position have I seen Individual MONSTER GAMES by an elite WR only to have the team lose...SO SO MANY.
oh and the without EXCEPTION....sorry wrong.
QB you get elite there big time difference in the team! Oh you can have the Exception and WIN usually by that average QB having an amazing run btw. But consistently win...there is that exception and its QB. I hope you don't really think that.
It is absolutely without exception. You do NOT need "elite" at ANY particular position. Period.
You said: "I'm saying its not necessary to make a championship run with an elite WR."
I'm saying that the exact same statement can be made about ANY position - and I have all of the years of NFL history to back it up.
You say "QB you get elite there big time difference in the team!". I say "So?". You don't NEED it.
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you're saying WR doesn't win you games?
Where the heck did you get that I said that??? 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I agree with you Purp.. there are a number of different ways to build a team to win a championship.. You need elite play but it doesn't specifically have to come from one position or another and it doesn't have to come from somebody considered elite at their position...
Case in point last year, Joe Flacco who is a good but not elite QB, strung a few games together where he played like an elite QB and they won the SB... same for Boldin, he's never been considered elite, heck he didn't even have 1000 yards last year but when he needed to make plays, he made plays down the stretch... Seattle could very well win the SB this year with Wilson playing very efficiently but relying on his running game and defense...
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Lest we forget the Ravens first SB with Dilfer at the helm.. Certainly not elite but he did his job well enough..
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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well then you can make the same about any position EO. Sometime I think you wish to argue with me not discuss like its some huff n puff thing cause of the tiff from the board...but believe it or not, somebody is actually will to discuss football with me finally...lol 
Its not the same n not cause I say so...the reason those positions are coveted and as a rule needed to go after...I call them positions that will separate you with the rest of the NFL.
But the only reason LT is a PRIME position is not cause its value is far far more than any other position than QB (hopefully we can agree QB IS THE POSITION). But it is the RARE SKILL SET that just is not seen often that makes it valuable so if you get one - you are ahead of the game.
Same with Cover Corner you just went into the totally wrong direction. Cover Corner will not be that much more important than another position like Safety...its the SKILL SET is Rare for a good Cover Corner. That is what makes the position so important.
Same with the OTHERS that I put out there.
Now there is the well you can say the same thing about ELITE WR...there is a difference though and here is why.
1. One I don't think its as rare skill set - especially now that colleges throw a lot more and also it seems a lot of athletes once playing Basketball have likened themselves to that position.
2. The difference from a GROUP/UNIT of Good WRs are so so much easier to find...which is what happens in games. Teams will shut down other teams ELITE WR as a game plan but what happens is that leaves one on one with the 2nd CB to 2nd WR...but then the 3rd to 3rd...and usually its that 3rd n 4th WR who do the important damage cause the skill set for a good WR is not rare while the CB Cover Corner is so the more you water it down the better the match up. This has nothing to do with monster stats it is how winning teams plan to win!
Just like lets go to LT there are a handful of them with the RARE skill Set. that is what makes them important. Because of that rare skill set - you got to a 2nd tier LT and the results are worse for the team in general. You go Hicks you get a one day wonder Whats his name for the Giants catching teh ball on his head.
Anyways...not quite sure of the intent...believe it or not - Thank you for the discussion.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We should trade Josh while we can still get some value for him. Somebody should be dumb enough to give us a 6th or 7th rounder.
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well then you can make the same about any position EO.
Sometime I think you wish to argue with me not discuss like its some huff n puff thing cause of the tiff from the board...but believe it or not, somebody is actually will to discuss football with me finally...lol
Its not the same n not cause I say so...the reason those positions are coveted and as a rule needed to go after...I call them positions that will separate you with the rest of the NFL.
But the only reason LT is a PRIME position is not cause its value is far far more than any other position than QB (hopefully we can agree QB IS THE POSITION). But it is the RARE SKILL SET that just is not seen often that makes it valuable so if you get one - you are ahead of the game.
Same with Cover Corner you just went into the totally wrong direction. Cover Corner will not be that much more important than another position like Safety...its the SKILL SET is Rare for a good Cover Corner. That is what makes the position so important.
Same with the OTHERS that I put out there.
Now there is the well you can say the same thing about ELITE WR...there is a difference though and here is why.
1. One I don't think its as rare skill set - especially now that colleges throw a lot more and also it seems a lot of athletes once playing Basketball have likened themselves to that position.
2. The difference from a GROUP/UNIT of Good WRs are so so much easier to find...which is what happens in games. Teams will shut down other teams ELITE WR as a game plan but what happens is that leaves one on one with the 2nd CB to 2nd WR...but then the 3rd to 3rd...and usually its that 3rd n 4th WR who do the important damage cause the skill set for a good WR is not rare while the CB Cover Corner is so the more you water it down the better the match up. This has nothing to do with monster stats it is how winning teams plan to win!
Just like lets go to LT there are a handful of them with the RARE skill Set. that is what makes them important. Because of that rare skill set - you got to a 2nd tier LT and the results are worse for the team in general. You go Hicks you get a one day wonder Whats his name for the Giants catching teh ball on his head.
Anyways...not quite sure of the intent...believe it or not - Thank you for the discussion.
love football talk. you got the intent right, if i wanted to post huff and puff stuff, i'd hit the general discussion or something else section. so i'm glad you understood this is just football talk.
so anyway, yes, we agree that the QB is all. period. that isn't even a discussion really, unless we go to the other threads and discuss WHO we think should be the QB.
but i still disagree when it comes to the WR position.
for instances, having a cover CB is great, but the entire unit has to play well for it too work.
we have already seen not only on our team, but others, that this isn't the case for the WR unit.
i don't mean to . anybody off. but all the WR we have besides Gordon are straight bums. Bess maybe good, but the only other threat we have isn't even at the WR spot, its at the TE spot.
and Gordon is putting up numbers unheard of in history. one man, by himself. beating press man, cover 2, double covered, saftey o¢er the top, whatever. it doesn't matter. he does it.
you know who else plays with bum WR and still puts his team in position to win? Megatron. i mean, think about that, he is so good that we don't even call him by his real name anymore.
and remember, i think our WR are bums, but when they make catches, most of it is in space, because teams have focused on trying to take away gordon. rarely do our WR catch balls or make clutch catches in traffic.
so if we get a legit #2 in the FA, or hell another #1, then yes our WR unit will be good, but right now gordon is doing this all by himself, he's our scorer.
i think that we need overall good units in each section, yes. but having that one ELITE guy makes all the difference.
and when you need that go to guy at the end of the game, it doesn't matter how the unit is playing, the QB is still going to throw it to that #1.
look no further than big Ben and santonio Holmes against the cardinals. elite WR wins that game, good overall? negative.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Swish, I'll just throw this out there for discussion since we are talking about importance of position... Josh McCown.. the guy is in his 12th season and is putting up unheard of numbers (at least for him).. he has never done anything close to this... The only other time he has had real good targets was early in his career when he was in Arizona with a very young Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin... So to what do we attribute his success? Is he just a more mature game player that finally got another chance? Is it Marshall and Jeffrey (thank goodness we didn't draft him, he's fat and undiscipline..  ), is it Marc Trestman?
yebat' Putin
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Everyone knows it's the Chicago Pizza !
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Swish, I'll just throw this out there for discussion since we are talking about importance of position... Josh McCown..
the guy is in his 12th season and is putting up unheard of numbers (at least for him).. he has never done anything close to this... The only other time he has had real good targets was early in his career when he was in Arizona with a very young Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin... So to what do we attribute his success? Is he just a more mature game player that finally got another chance? Is it Marshall and Jeffrey (thank goodness we didn't draft him, he's fat and undiscipline.. ), is it Marc Trestman?
i hate to say this...but could it be.....the system?
you're absolutely right, he had AB and larry, how do you NOT throw 4 TD's a game with that?
but well, maybe it IS because he had time to learn and progress, mature if you will. maybe its they actually have a run game in chicago.
or, yes, it could be because of the pizza!
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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I agree w/much of your post, and I agree w/this next statement, but...... Quote:
Browns fans are so jaded by failure, so wounded by history that it's sometimes hard for them to accept good fortune when it visits their doorsteps.
Have you read this thread? There are posts saying he already is elite. I would say he is playing elite, but he should probably prove it over the course of time before we deem him elite. There are also those who said he was going to be better than Moss, better than Jerrry "Freaking" Rice. Really? It's was too early for such talk.
The truth is that people overreact on both sides, Clem. While it irritates you that people are critical, it irritates me when people make such outrageous claims and people don't even question them.
It seems like there is rarely a middle ground. It's all about extremes. Look at the arguments on the board over players like Mingo, Ward, Gipson, etc. Extreme opinions. It's crap.
I really do agree w/you on just enjoying what he is doing right now, though. It's fun to watch. At this point in time, he is playing like an elite talent and it's great to be able to witness it.
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Not to pick nits, but he is elite. Indisputably. You are what you produce in this league.
Will he be a HoF and will his career be elite? THAT will be determined by whether or not he sustains it.
For the right now, this season, he IS elite. He IS the cream-of-the-crop.
Will he be better that Jerry Rice? No one can tell... but he COULD have a better single season that Jerry Rice, and that is not even remotely a stretch of the imagination at this point.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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