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i think the QB is the most important position in football.
but some are saying that you don't need good play at the WR/TE position. it takes 2 to tango.
i'm not clueless. thanks for the insults.
I did not intend to insult you. I apologize if you were insulted.
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i'm not arguing great QB play.
but you guys are going with the greatest QB of all time as the standard. thats like me comparing every CB to deon Sanders and saying they suck and aren't any good when comparing them to him. it isn't fair.
the fact is, Tom brady is struggling hard with the zero talent at WR. those guys he has are game changers. and you guys KNOW it.
but when he had Randy Moss? yea..
Swish, good arguments all around. I think we can drag this on forever. We should make its own topic. We are highjacking this thread! By the way, Brady did make the championship game with no-talent receivers. True he lost because of poor receivers, but in order to win the super bowl, you need good talent across the board.
As for picking the best QB's all time. I simply selected the top QB's in the league. It simply turned out most of these guys won super bowls. I did the same for receivers selecting best. At first, I was surprised. I would have thought it would be more 50/50. When it was so lopsided, it is hard to argue against.
If you wish to continue this discussion, start a new topic or send a pm.
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Drafting WRs and a TE high has made us the force we are now. Why switch tactics when something has been so successful?
If I have an almost sure thing in Watkins at WR vs. a big gamble in Manziel at QB, I'm taking that sure thing everyday. Let's be fair, Couch, Quinn, and Weeden didn't really work out for the team, either. I also don't care as much about past picks by different front offices with different coaches and players surrounding them. Couch, Quinn, and Weededn have no effect on someone like Manziel just like the receivers you mentioned have no effect on someone like Sammy Watkins.
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The draft is a crapshoot no matter how much a sure thing a person is.
I know I'm going to ripped for this, But I really think that Manziel will drop into the second round.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The draft is a crapshoot no matter how much a sure thing a person is.
I know I'm going to ripped for this, But I really think that Manziel will drop into the second round.
Yeah, it's definitely a crap shoot. But, educated decisions can be made without knowing the future. Watkins is the best WR prospect and we have a desperate need for a WR. Manziel is the third best QB prospect at best and not far ahead of guys who could be had in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Personally, I don't think he is worth a #4 pick, but I think Watkins absolutely is.
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I know I'm going to ripped for this, But I really think that Manziel will drop into the second round.
For what reason?
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Quote:
I know I'm going to ripped for this, But I really think that Manziel will drop into the second round.
For what reason?
There are folks on here that I think would rip me no matter what I say.
I also believe there are a few worshipers of Johnny football on here and if you read a lot of reports, he's considered by many "experts" as a high first round pick. Some have even said he's #1 overall.
So, couple all that together and yeah, I may get ripped for saying he's a second rounder..
Does that make any sense.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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LOL...........I am not sure how cfrs15 meant it, but I interpreted it as why do you think Manziel will drop to the second round?
This should be interesting.
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because a lot of the things he is know for in college wont translate well to the nfl. he throws acrosÎ his body way too much in many of those scrambles he makes. He will get killed running around like that in the NFL.I don't think that will make him fall to round 2 with all the hype around him but then you never know sometimes.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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He isn't going to get drafted in the first round because of hype. Professional GMs, w/extensive scouting teams, are evaluating him. Not guys like you and I.
I didn't like the kid, but I watched a lot of football and he is a much better QB than people are giving him credit for.
We'll see...........
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LOL...........I am not sure how cfrs15 meant it, but I interpreted it as why do you think Manziel will drop to the second round?
Yes.
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I don't think he is a bad QB. He has good intelligence. I just don't think he will do good right away. I have a strong preference for a pocket passer over a scrambling type of QB. that don't mean I want a statue back there. I just think its very hard for an NFL o-line to keep the QB safe when they never know where the QB will be.
People will say I am crazy but I'd love to see a 2 QB system with say wilson and manziel. Each able to throw and catch it from one side to the other then either run it or throw a bomb. Ever going to happen ... No. Still would be great fun to watch =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I have a strong preference for a pocket passer over a scrambling type of QB. that don't mean I want a statue back there. I just think its very hard for an NFL o-line to keep the QB safe when they never know where the QB will be.
Which is somewhat ironic given that two of the top pocket QBs in the draft will likely have to spend their rookie seasons on IR.
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Yea, I think cfrs was asking what you think is going to change between now and draft day that will have J Football drop out of the top 5 as he's currently projected and into the second round.. he wasn't asking you why you thought you'd get ripped...
For the record, I think just the opposite is going to happen. I think in a one on one setting (an interview), he's going to come across as more mature than his public persona and more dedicated to perfecting his craft, I think his accuracy at the combine and pro day are going to be at or above where people expect it to be... and when it comes down to it, the only reason NOT to pick him, will be his measurables..
yebat' Putin
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LOL...........I am not sure how cfrs15 meant it, but I interpreted it as why do you think Manziel will drop to the second round?
This should be interesting.
Same here. Da Man's response had me scratching my head. Completely different path.
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I don't think he is a bad QB. He has good intelligence. I just don't think he will do good right away. I have a strong preference for a pocket passer over a scrambling type of QB. that don't mean I want a statue back there. I just think its very hard for an NFL o-line to keep the QB safe when they never know where the QB will be.
People will say I am crazy but I'd love to see a 2 QB system with say wilson and manziel. Each able to throw and catch it from one side to the other then either run it or throw a bomb. Ever going to happen ... No. Still would be great fun to watch =)
I would love a system like that and have touted it in the past as well. The 2nd QB would have to be a guy like Tebow to make the most of it though. In other words, you get less QB skills but you get a better body for a RB/TE hybrid guy on most plays. The hardest part is that you'd have to find a guy willing to do it and an OC willing to implement it.
With all the ex-spread QBs playing different positions in college & NFL, we are getting closer to this being at least a possibility. Though I'd expect it to be tried in HS or college first.
#gmstrong
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I know I'm going to ripped for this, But I really think that Manziel will drop into the second round.
For what reason?
There are folks on here that I think would rip me no matter what I say.
I also believe there are a few worshipers of Johnny football on here and if you read a lot of reports, he's considered by many "experts" as a high first round pick. Some have even said he's #1 overall.
So, couple all that together and yeah, I may get ripped for saying he's a second rounder..
Does that make any sense.
He has a mid to late first round grade physically (mostly because he isn't tall and thick). He's a quarterback and a clear leader. That bumps him into top of the first round status. It's as simple as that.
If Brandon Weeden got taken in the 1st and Ryan Tannehil (who I was down on and glad we didn't take) got taken at the top of the first round. There is almost no chance he falls to round 2.
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Let me take a shot.
He has the cahonas to walk into Alabamas stadium, with a completely outmanned team, and single handidly beat them, and Saban, on their own field.
Baller
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Let me take a shot.
He has the cahonas to walk into Alabamas stadium, with a completely outmanned team, and single handidly beat them, and Saban, on their own field.
Baller
Winner
I think the game he lost to Alabama was even better, he brought them back from 34-14 to tie the game against one of the best teams in the nation. Now, I think he would do best in a dome, or a warm weather team, but if we can move the pocket like Seattle does, I think he can thrive.
With all of this, we'll end up taking Bortles or Bridgewater and it will be for nothing.
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i'm praying we taking Bridgewater.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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i'm praying we taking Bridgewater.
Me too - or Bortles -- either way, this is a pretty weak QB class (especially for a class that will likely have 3 top ten picks).
None of these guys are at the Luck/RG3/Bradford level.
~Lyuokdea
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I have a strong preference for a pocket passer over a scrambling type of QB. that don't mean I want a statue back there. I just think its very hard for an NFL o-line to keep the QB safe when they never know where the QB will be.
Which is somewhat ironic given that two of the top pocket QBs in the draft will likely have to spend their rookie seasons on IR.
I agree. A totem pole makes a pretty good target.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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i'm praying we taking Bridgewater.
Me too - or Bortles -- either way, this is a pretty weak QB class (especially for a class that will likely have 3 top ten picks).
None of these guys are at the Luck/RG3/Bradford level.
Sam Bradford? lol
There aren't any prospects like Luck, there have been 2 in the past what, 30 years? So not a fair comparison and very unrealistic.
I wouldn't say RG III and MAnziel are all that different. Similar height, similar build, similar results.
So I don't agree.
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RG3 was a much better prospect than Manziel - they have a similar style of play - but Manziel is really a poor mans RG3.
He's not as fast, he doesn't throw the short route as cleanly, he doesn't have as much arm strength. He's shorter. He hits receivers in stride less going up the seems.
For their last year of collge
RG3 Completion percentage = 72.4
Manziel = 69.9
TD/INT
RG3 = 37/6
Manziel = 37/13
Yards/Att
RG3 = 10.7
Manziel = 9.54
Rating:
RG3 = 189.5
Manziel = 172.9
Rushing
RG3 = 179 ATT, 699 Yards, 10TD
Manziel = 144 ATT, 759Yards, 9TD
Slight edge to Manziel in rushing stats -- the rest is all RG3.
~Lyuokdea
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RG3 was a much better prospect than Manziel - they have a similar style of play - but Manziel is really a poor mans RG3.
He's not as fast, he doesn't throw the short route as cleanly, he doesn't have as much arm strength. He's shorter. He hits receivers in stride less going up the seems.
For their last year of collge
RG3 Completion percentage = 72.4
Manziel = 69.9
TD/INT
RG3 = 37/6
Manziel = 37/13
Yards/Att
RG3 = 10.7
Manziel = 9.54
Rating:
RG3 = 189.5
Manziel = 172.9
Rushing
RG3 = 179 ATT, 699 Yards, 10TD
Manziel = 144 ATT, 759Yards, 9TD
Slight edge to Manziel in rushing stats -- the rest is all RG3.
Factor in the SEC versus the garbage Big 12 and there you go. You also don't know RG III is faster until he runs at the combine.
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I really don't think the Combine is necessary to tell me that Manziel will not run a 4.41
~Lyuokdea
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You're probably right but I wouldn't be so certain. Making Big 12 guys look slow is not a daunting task. Making SEC guys look slow is a different animal.
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I have a strong preference for a pocket passer over a scrambling type of QB. that don't mean I want a statue back there. I just think its very hard for an NFL o-line to keep the QB safe when they never know where the QB will be.
Which is somewhat ironic given that two of the top pocket QBs in the draft will likely have to spend their rookie seasons on IR.
I agree. A totem pole makes a pretty good target.
Yep, that was like watching Weeden.. you knew after a couple seconds if the ball wasn't already gone nothing good was going to happen.
yebat' Putin
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He isn't going to get drafted in the first round because of hype. Professional GMs, w/extensive scouting teams, are evaluating him. Not guys like you and I.
I didn't like the kid, but I watched a lot of football and he is a much better QB than people are giving him credit for.
We'll see...........
Heheh, and yet, Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young go Top 5 overall... because of hype, with professional GM's w/ extensive scouting teams evaluating them.
At the same time, guys like Brady Quinn and Geno Smith were expected to be taken WAY ahead of where they were, and they both plummeted.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Manziel would do more for the Browns than probably anyone in the draft. Talent wise, I think he is a mid first rounder as are bridgewater and Carr but this team needs an absolute field general out there to break the mental barrier. I just feel his qualities are exactly what the Browns need. hell I need a reason to tune into to this dysfunction, and I dont think I am alone in that. Now if we feel that way, imagine how the players are feeling. team needs a spark, someone to believe in.
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I would be very happy with Bridgewater or Manziel.
I take some issue with people comparing Manziel to Wilson. Wilson is more of a mixture of Bridgewater's cerebralness and Manziel's physique and elusiveness. My main concern with Manziel is whether he is mentally sharp enough to truly become elite in the NFL on the Peyton Manning scale of truly understanding the game. I think given a few years of play it will be very interesting to see how he develops in that way.
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My main concern with Manziel is whether he is mentally sharp enough to truly become elite in the NFL on the Peyton Manning scale of truly understanding the game.
Well at least you didn't set the bar too high. 
yebat' Putin
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My main concern with Manziel is whether he is mentally sharp enough to truly become elite in the NFL on the Peyton Manning scale of truly understanding the game.
Well at least you didn't set the bar too high.
I will also accept him reading defenses as well as Tom Brady. But in the back of my mind I would be a little disappointed.
(Peyton was just an example for a QB who sort of commands the offense on their own and makes pre-snap reads effectively. Maybe I was spoiled by Bernie but I find qbs who don't do that kind of stupid)
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King I am in agreement with you. I was very encouraged by the Farmer video from the Sr. Bowl that was posted when he said something to the effect that when he looks at QBs, he's looking for one who makes good reads, pre and post snap and gets the ball out quickly and decisively.. I've long said I'll take a smart QB over a canon arm every day...
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With Pettine stating in the presser that he want's tough players, both physically and mentally, it makes me wonder if Manziel can fit that bill. No question the kid is tough physically, but I'm not so sure about the mental part.
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With Pettine stating in the presser that he want's tough players, both physically and mentally, it makes me wonder if Manziel can fit that bill. No question the kid is tough physically, but I'm not so sure about the mental part.
Did you watch the game vs. Duke? Mental toughness should be one of the last concerns with Manziel.
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I did not. I was more thinking about his off the field antics than on field.
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I did not. I was more thinking about his off the field antics than on field.
Maturity is going to be something he has to address in his interviews, no doubt.
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With Pettine stating in the presser that he want's tough players, both physically and mentally, it makes me wonder if Manziel can fit that bill. No question the kid is tough physically, but I'm not so sure about the mental part.
Did you watch the game vs. Duke? Mental toughness should be one of the last concerns with Manziel.
mental toughness as far as it goes to working hard enough in the offseason and during the week in film study to truly understand the game. he worries me that he might be a matt leinart from that side. obviously, I don't know but it is a concern given how much he likes the celebrity life.
#gmstrong
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I did not. I was more thinking about his off the field antics than on field.
I see your point but I don't think mental toughness and maturity are the same thing... When I think of mental toughness I think about a guy who can stand in and take a hit and still deliver a good throw, a guy who can throw a costly INT but shake it off and come back and lead the game winning drive, a guy who can have a bad game and keep his head about him....
yebat' Putin
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 The Manziel tipping point
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