|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
really hope next season we end up with a "possession" receiver in football terms only!
LMAO 
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
j/c
No matter what happens, I hope this guy gets the support and help he needs, whatever that is.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
Quote:
No matter what happens, I hope this guy gets the support and help he needs, whatever that is.
I do too, as long as he's willing to also try to help himself, i.e. truly want and accept the help.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,964 |
Just heard a radio report that he was arrested in an airport, already released. Was acting bizarrely, confronting a cop, spilled coffee on him somehow.
Get him gone. He sucked, plus the personal issues. Do whatever to get the money back, pick up a possible replacement in the latter rounds, let him and Cooper fight it out.
He's a waste of a roster spot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
The more I see, the more inclined I am to feel really bad for the guy... Still don't really want him on the Browns but I hope he figures out what is going on and gets it together.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,171
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,171 |
Agreed.
When I wrote the above about his staging it to get out of town, I had assumed that this sort of behavior was new for him as I had the understanding that he was a pretty well-rounded, upstanding character.
Knowing that he has been dealing with some form of depression or whatever for nearly 10 months... that's a different animal altogether.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572 |
I agree.
We also don't need to simply cut him and be on any hook for the money. If the league steps in, then we are off the hook to a degree.
The guy obviously has some serious issues that need to be addressed. You don't just kick that to the curb until you feel you made a effort to help the guy.
At least I don't.
JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,545 |
Bess has some serious internal problems he's dealing with and needs help. Hope he get it soon. Apparently, he was hospitalized and had to be restrained 10 months ago. Did Banner and Lombardi not have this information? Due Diligence? Makes sense now the Dolphins let him go so cheap. Bess Hospitalized and Restrained: 10 Months Ago
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
I agree.
We also don't need to simply cut him and be on any hook for the money. If the league steps in, then we are off the hook to a degree.
The guy obviously has some serious issues that need to be addressed. You don't just kick that to the curb until you feel you made a effort to help the guy.
At least I don't.
JMO
There's an obligation there, both morally and legally.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
its the wizard of oz in cleveland, bryant no heart, Bess no brain, Lombardi no courage. There were rumors in philly that Banner dressed up like "Dorothy on saturday night.
and before everyone panics about heart condition and mental illness, it was a joke get over it lol
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572 |
Quote:
Bess has some serious internal problems he's dealing with and needs help. Hope he get it soon.
Apparently, he was hospitalized and had to be restrained 10 months ago. Did Banner and Lombardi not have this information? Due Diligence? Makes sense now the Dolphins let him go so cheap.
Bess Hospitalized and Restrained: 10 Months Ago
Probably not. Miami couldn't release the information due to HIPPA, and Bess wouldn't want to release it, so we got stuck.
Blame Miami....not the front office. No way they could know.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
No way they could know.
In this day and age of instant communications, I can't buy into that. Besides, it's their job to know these things. Guess they didn't know about Bryant either? Perhaps they need to dig deeper...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
Quote:
No way they could know.
In this day and age of instant communications, I can't buy into that. Besides, it's their job to know these things. Guess they didn't know about Bryant either? Perhaps they need to dig deeper...
Well theres that .... but wait ... theres more ...
ummmm .... did the hippa laws change?? .. or maybe they just apply to the first offense .... *shrugs* .... cause unless they changed ... HOW IS THAT INFO OUT NOW??????? ....
did his first arrest not make the news .... *LOL* ... I think not ...
and if it was HIPPA the 1st time around .. wouldn't HIPPA apply this time so some other team got stuck???? ...
I don't get it ....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,545
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,545 |
Peen, I understand your position and don't necessarily disagree entirely. But, how was it that Deadspin found this information (even with HIPPA laws) and the Browns, whom have an obligation to themselves to thoroughly run a player through a full medical evaluation prior to approving a trade did not discover any potential concerns?
I'm not here to blame anyone, pointing blame is a waste of time. Rather it is cause for hesitation and concern regarding the evaluation methods the FO uses to evaluate personnel. The timeline indicates the FO has traded for and signed to an extension Bess whom is obviously having his well documented issues. Signed Desmond Bryan to a substantial contract whom had a previously know heart condition. Signed Charles Johnson from Green Bay that had a torn ACL. Signed Paul Kruger to a sizable contract and was a disappointment. I find this cause for concern, maybe I'm wrong.
I think it's wonderful the FO was able to trade some picks in last year's draft for upgraded pics this year and the T-Rich trade for a 1st rounder looks like a potential steal at this time, but if they don't hit on this picks then it doesn't mean squat. I liken those potential picks to a salesman or advertising agency finally landing the meeting with the BIG client. That's great, let's celebrate, but at the end of the day if you don't close the deal who cares that you got the meeting.
I've gone off topic a bit, my apologies. I do feel there is a responsibility the FO has to Bess. At the end of the day, I hope the guy gets the help/treatment he needs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
Let me see if I've got this straight,
we trade for and then hand over $7million to a crazy man,and there's no repercussions.
I'm beginning to think this Haslam character is out to lunch.He supposedly knew nothing about th P/FJ scam aÅd here he's allowing the FO to throw money down the toilet.
For those of you citing hippa laws,that's all well and good,but,the NFL is a very,very small industry.There's only a few thousand people in it.I'll guarantee you there were rumors and somebody knew about it.
Unfortunately it wasn't the two people who get paid handsomely to know these types of things.
I/ve said this before,but this time it's worse,I am completely,totally embarrassed to be a fan of the Browns.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Let me see if I've got this straight,
we trade for and then hand over $7million to a crazy man,and there's no repercussions.
If you sign a contract with a crazy man, and there isn't specific language in that contract that negates your responsibilities in the event that the man goes crazy...
...then, no, there aren't repercussions.
Why should there be?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 880 |
Quote:
Quote:
Bess has some serious internal problems he's dealing with and needs help. Hope he get it soon.
Apparently, he was hospitalized and had to be restrained 10 months ago. Did Banner and Lombardi not have this information? Due Diligence? Makes sense now the Dolphins let him go so cheap.
Bess Hospitalized and Restrained: 10 Months Ago
Probably not. Miami couldn't release the information due to HIPPA, and Bess wouldn't want to release it, so we got stuck.
Blame Miami....not the front office. No way they could know.
But someone can waive HIPPA and I'm sure MOST players have to in trades, draft, etc. Our Front Office either knew or they didn't do their due diligence.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,322
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,322 |
Miami knew what was up back then, that's why we got Bess.... The handwriting was on the wall, as they say. What a trainwreck he turned out to be.
He needs to quit using alcohol and other drugs, he obviously can't handle using them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Davone Bess answers question about 'weed tweets' with 'ask Brandon Weeden' response (video) The 28-year-old was then asked about the "weed tweets". Bess responds with "ask Brandon Weeden. I don't know." http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/davone_bess_answers_question_a.html
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
While still with the Miami Dolphins, Davone Bess was unstable, violent and hospitalized against his will, according to Miami Herald Even if they didn’t know of the report, some will wonder whether the organization thoroughly researched Bess before making him the club’s major offensive acquisition of the off-season. The Dolphins are not required to share such information while negotiating a trade. A league source told NEOMG on Friday the Dolphins were not surprised by Friday’s arrest or Bess’ recent behavior.
The 28-year-old was supposed to lend a veteran presence to the receiving corps and serve as a mentor for Josh Gordon, who has a history of drug-related problems. The fallout could have serious implications for an embattled front office that’s conducting it second head-coaching search in two years.On Friday morning, a Browns spokesman did say the team was aware of Bess’ arrest at the Fort Lauderdale International Airport stemming from charges of assaulting an office, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct. The sixth-year veteran appeared to be "under the influence of an unknown narcotic," according to a police report. An officer working a TSA detail approached Bess in the airport concourse after several passengers pointed out he was "acting irrationally, dancing, singing with his pants repeatedly falling down." The report also stated Bess took a fighting stance on two occasions before back-up officers arrived and he surrendered without further incident. What few knew until Friday is Bess had a similar meltdown with Florida police in March. Broward County Sheriff’s officers were summoned to his Cooper City, Fla., house where a strong smell of cannabis came from the master bedroom, according to an incident report. Several men were trying to restrain Bess as he was screaming, “Hide the guns. Where is my weed," and "I want to get in the end zone; throw me the football."A dozen officers eventually subdued Bess and he was Marchman Acted – or hospitalized without his consent. Earlier in the day, Bess' mother, Chinell Carpenter, flew from California after receiving a call that her son was not acting like himself, the Herald reported. She said then that Bess had not slept in three days and was going through some serious personal issues. The description of Bess is consistent with an earlier NEOMG report. A source told the website that Bess had difficulty focusing and sleeping this season. He had grown so depressed by his effort – Bess recorded season-lows in catches and yardage – that he “mentally checked out” in his final days with the team.Given Bess’ recent conduct and the Friday arrest, it would not be hard to imagine the Browns releasing him in the coming weeks and trying to recoup some of the guaranteed money. Non-playoff teams cannot waive players until Feb. 3, the day after the Super Bowl. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/last_march_davone_bess_was_uns.html
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572 |
I don't know man....maybe you guys are right.
Maybe it was a calculated risk, that didn't work out. shrug
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 |
Banner and Lombardi sure didn't do their due diligence before acquiring Bess. He was touted as a "veteran" presence that could positively influence our younger receivers. Turns out he was exactly the opposite of that. Unprofessional, unreliable, and mentally unstable. We're going to have to cut him and take the cap hit.
Looking back on Banner and Lombardi's first year.....Scary!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
Quote:
I don't know man....maybe you guys are right.
Maybe it was a calculated risk, that didn't work out. shrug
Thats how I see it. They rolled the dice and it didnt work. I never understand why people get caught up on how much money a team spends. Its their money, its not like its our taxes or something.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I loved the trade and was ok with the subsequent contract Extension, but if I knew even half of the Troubles he had (and I'm sure THAT much the FO knew), then I would have let him play out this season on his old contract and make him earn an extension. I mean, WHY on earth would you basically make him a really bad (as in: un-cutable) contract for two seasons, when you knew about some of his red flags? That's just an unecessary risk. If we cut him now, we're taking a 3+mil$ cap hit. That's basically one less starting caliber FA signing we can afford now....with one additional roster Spot to fill. Bad value all around. Did you know that Bess got as much guaranteed money as Reggie Bush or Keenan Lewis?  that's bad value even before him going crazy....
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Again, it's not about Haslam's money. A bad contract like this directly leads us starting some UDFA hopeful or cheap FA over a proven vet FA. Think Robertson instead of Dansby, Skrine/Owens instead of K.Lewis, Gipson instead of Clemons/Phillips/Goldson etc etc
Bad Deals like this lead to dead money, plus an additional roster Spot (need) to fill (and Pay) and LESS cap money for other need positions.
It's much more than just the money....it's bad on field product value too
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,572 |
Maybe we don't cut him and the league takes action. Then I am not sure we are on the hook for the salary.
In addition, I don't think it will cost us a signing. I doubt we would have taken the cap inside that 3 mil figure. I don't want the team that close to the cap any more then I want them 40mil under.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,867
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,867 |
I agree, there is probably no way they could have known of the problems.
I thought we may have gotten the better of the trade, but obviously Miami knew something we didn't.
I wonder if there is anything within NFL rules that prohibits the trade of a player with problems that can't be disclosed due to something like health laws? Guess not.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
j/c: Not sure how the following situations are so different, but it will be fun to read all the excus...errrrr reasons and justifications of how they aren't even close to the same. Seems like everyone wants to blast the FO because they either didn't dig deep enough on Bess or because they ignored his past behavior and decided to give him another chance. The very same people who are criticizing this FO for the above are the same ones who said the previous FO was smart for drafting Josh Gordon. They are the same people who said that the current FO better not trade Gordon. Weren't there signs surrounding Gordon? Didn't he fail three drug tests in college? Wasn't he kicked off of two teams? Didn't he fail two more tests in one year in the pros? Didn't he get suspended for those violations? Didn't he post a picture of himself w/a marijuana pipe and a pill bottle on the internet. Didn't he post a drunken video of him and Little at a club? This should be fun.........well, at least until certain posters don't deal w/the questions and decide to attack the poster who posed them, because they have no other recourse. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,993
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,993 |
Not sure this is accurate but this site list a cap hit and dead money at $3,067,000 for 2014. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/davone-bess.If I am reading this correctly, and there is zero promise of that, his guaranteed money was included in his salary for last year and this year. In years beyond 2014, cutting him wouldnt' have cost us a thing.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,137
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,137 |
Maybe Bess also got "Incognitoed" in Miami. Seems like that locker room wasn't the most stable of environments for a fragile psyche.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,856 |
Quote:
j/c:
Not sure how the following situations are so different, but it will be fun to read all the excus...errrrr reasons and justifications of how they aren't even close to the same.
Seems like everyone wants to blast the FO because they either didn't dig deep enough on Bess or because they ignored his past behavior and decided to give him another chance.
The very same people who are criticizing this FO for the above are the same ones who said the previous FO was smart for drafting Josh Gordon. They are the same people who said that the current FO better not trade Gordon.
Weren't there signs surrounding Gordon? Didn't he fail three drug tests in college? Wasn't he kicked off of two teams? Didn't he fail two more tests in one year in the pros? Didn't he get suspended for those violations? Didn't he post a picture of himself w/a marijuana pipe and a pill bottle on the internet. Didn't he post a drunken video of him and Little at a club?
This should be fun.........well, at least until certain posters don't deal w/the questions and decide to attack the poster who posed them, because they have no other recourse.
the one difference is that it Gordon's past was a known commodity and the risk was a known given. Bess either had issues that 1) the FO could not determine ( hippa) in which case it does not lie on them or 2) they knew about the problems and determined the risk / reward to be tolerable.
If it is the 2nd then I would have preferred they not immediately give him a new contract...( I think we all would have been up in arms if they had given Gordon one as well knowing his risks) and yes if they decided the risk / reward to be worth it then they do need to shoulder responsibility for that what seems to be a failed risk decision, ( and that's ok, decisions are sometimes wrong).
On Gordon, yes the 2 games lost does lie on H&H as well as the loss of a 2nd rounder if he does not pan out... but it ends there (imo) this FO has made the decision to keep him in the hopes he will be a player, any result going forward lies on them, good or bad.
as example lets look at TRich... we know see it was obviously a bad move by H&H... B&L had opportunity to get a 1st rounder for him... by all accounts a great move,,, but what if they had passed on the trade.... given what we have seen... that would have been on them and TR being on the roster with his . ypg would be on them and no longer on H&H... 'again just MHO
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I am not saying they are exactly the same. I said they were similar.
One worked out---thus far.
One did not.
That's the difference. Therefore, I find it hard to get behind all this bashing of the FO for Bess' problems.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,470
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,470 |
i don't think too many people are questioning signing bess are they are giving him the extension vers.
just like, we didn't give gordon a new contract, either.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
... no other recourse.
Why does any criticism of the current regime, have to be compared against the previous? Why can they not be judged on their own merit (or lack thereof)?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
That quote was about posters............not regimes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
J/c.
Who cares about the contract? We have tons of cap space for the foreseeable future.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,551 |
It was dumb of Heckert to spend a 2nd on a guy that had failed that many drug tests in college and it was dumb of Banner to trade for Bess. It really bothers me more in that they may not have known about the other incident.
With the police involved it would not have been all that hard to find out what happened and this is the guy you were bringing in to mentor your supertalented drug addict.
what the hell was bess gonna teach gordon? a better way to roll? Haslam should clean house. If he is gonna fire Chud and that staff for a bottom line production then he should hold the FO to the same standard.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
... he should hold the FO to the same standard.
Based on his increasing involvement, I would say that the FO is likely on the clock...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Davone Bess On
Reserve/Non-Football Injury (Out
for Season)
|
|
![[Linked Image from thumb0.webshots.net]](http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/34/34/0/73/58/2594073580091396520Miskbz_th.jpg)
