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Also, we had already taken Weeden so the Eagles could bet that we wouldn't take Foles. Had we bypassed Weeden would the Eagles have traded up to get Foles before he fell to us? No way of knowing of course. Just food for thought.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Problem with that is those guys are much harder to identify. You are much more likely to get a Frye or McCoy in the 3rd than a Wilson.
I liked Foles and I thought that Wilson would be too short. Shows what I know. 
I also liked Kaepernick and Dalton but thought that Dalton was taken a round or so early.
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And I am not saying picking the right guy in the 1st is easy. Just Easier.
Sure, it easier to make (unless you don't have a first rounder). But look at the bust QBs that have run through the 1st round.
Nothing is surefire and RG3 is turning into a huge bust already in DC and look what they gave up to get him.
When a team is drafting as high up as the Browns are every year, I never promote a trade up. Never. That, to me, is just crazy talk.
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Sometimes, you can wait and let your QB fall to you and do just fine.
Sometimes you can.. but the longer you wait, the riskier it gets.
Does it? I'm not going to list QBs taken #1 overall because those teams didn't have to wait at all.
GB waited (Rogers). Cincy waited (Dalton). The 49ers waited (Kaepernick). The Seahawks waited (Wilson).
The Redskins didn't (RG3).
The Browns?
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I wasn't suggesting a trade up. Just noting that a good Qb is easier to identify in round 1 than 3.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I don't dispute that, and if they have a guy who they think can be had in the 3rd who will be a superstar, that's fine .... but they also have to realize that time is running out on their chances.
The time has been running out on the front office of this team for years. It's why we've had first round flops like Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden.
I failed to mention in the other thread, our other AFCN foes. Pittsburgh let Roethlisberger fall to them and the Ravens let Flacco fall to them.
All these proponents of 'trade up' to get your QB are mal-informed.
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Further, as DC said earlier in this thread, the later you go, the less likely it is that you find a starter quality QB. Besides, the team traded Richardson specifically so they could get their QB.
How do you know they traded Richardson so that they could go and get their QB? What do you base that statement on? I hope that it's only based on what you think and not what you hear on the radio by people that don't no diddly squat about football or any other sport.
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Further, you just never know when another team may also be on a hidden gem type, and takes him just before you can. Maybe he talks to the other team at some point and tells them that we have been really interested in him, and "Please, for the love of all that's holy, please save me from having to go there!!!!!!!!" (OK, that's a bit of sarcastic overreaction)
So, you would base your drafting philosophy on 'maybes' and 'what-ifs'?
If that's the criteria, then let me propose this one to you. You might miss out on a real gem because you traded away the picks you had that could have been used to select him but since you no longer had those selections, some other team got him.
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Anyway, all I am saying is that the browns have to find their QB this year, because they have to get out of this 4-6 or 7 win rut this year. Given how they basically blamed Chud for all that went wrong this year, they cannot afford to show no, or only limited improvement next year. They need to improve, and to do so, they need to figure out their QB position.
It seems that a lot of Browns fans feel this way but vehemently defend Chudzinski's 4-12 record.
In regards to the QB position, you're right. They need to figure it out, but right now, I want them to get the HC position right. I'll begin worrying about the QB position later.
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I wasn't suggesting a trade up. Just noting that a good Qb is easier to identify in round 1 than 3.
That's been successful for the Browns so far, hasn't it?
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I wasn't suggesting a trade up. Just noting that a good Qb is easier to identify in round 1 than 3.
I don't mean specifically that anyone is suggesting a trade up. Although, you could go through the various threads or listen to the local media in Cleveland and see what I mean.
The Browns can sit at #4 and get a QB if they find one that they deem worthy of the pick or wait until later to get one.
There is way too much talk of trading up to secure a QB (or any player) for my liking. Let's worry about the HC position first and then go from there.
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Sometimes, you can wait and let your QB fall to you and do just fine.
Sometimes you can.. but the longer you wait, the riskier it gets.
Does it? I'm not going to list QBs taken #1 overall because those teams didn't have to wait at all.
GB waited (Rogers). Cincy waited (Dalton). The 49ers waited (Kaepernick). The Seahawks waited (Wilson).
The Redskins didn't (RG3).
The Browns?
We've waited... (or settled, depending on how you look at it)...
Let's see... Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, Spergon Wynn, Luke McCown......
Seattle waited too... for a long time... even when they had Hasselbeck, who was good but not great.. going back to 1999.. Brock Huard (1999 3rd round), Josh Booty (2001 6th round), Jeff Kelly (2002 7th round), Seneca Wallace (2003 4th round), David Green (2005 3rd round), Mike Teel (2009 6th round)...
San Fran.. yea, they waited too.. let's go back to 1997 as Steve Young was nearing the final couple years of his career... Jim Druckenmiller (26th pick), Giovanni Carmazzi (2000 3rd round) and Tim Rattay (2000 7th round), Brandon Doman (2005 5th round), Ken Dorsey (2002 7th round), Cody Picket (2004 7th round), Alex Smith (2005 1st overall, doesn't really count), Nate Davis (2009 5th round)...
So people act as if Seattle and San Fran and these other teams had some grand plan that we just don't have or that picking a mid to late round QB and having success is some kind of a science... it seems like much more than that... It seems like hitting just the right QB at the right time with the right coach and other pieces that are poised to take off... Do we have that? Is the next Russel Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton in this draft? Probably.. who is it? and are we in a position to have them succeed?
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It seems that a lot of Browns fans feel this way but vehemently defend Chudzinski's 4-12 record.
In regards to the QB position, you're right. They need to figure it out, but right now, I want them to get the HC position right. I'll begin worrying about the QB position later.
Nobody is "defending" a 4-12 record. It's just some of us believe that doesn't all fall on the HC. The question is, without a QB and a running game, how do you know whether you have a good HC?
Which is why so many feel they have to get the QB right. Without Foles and McCoy, how would Chip Kelly have done here?
While it's true the HC will come first, if you don't give him the ammunition to succeed, he very well could end up one and done too.
But I believe you are right in saying you don't have to move up to get a QB. One may fall to you. But I believe you'll find a lot more Brady Quinns than Aaron Rogers if you looked into it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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In regards to the QB position, you're right. They need to figure it out, but right now, I want them to get the HC position right. I'll begin worrying about the QB position later.
If we don't get the QB position figured out, whoever it is will be a 2 year HC.. so you might not want to wait too long.
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We've waited... (or settled, depending on how you look at it)...
We have? Or the team chose poorly. It depends on how you look at it.
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et's see... Charlie Frye, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, Spergon Wynn, Luke McCown......
Two of them were expected to be starting QBs, Brady Quinn & Brandon Weeden. The Browns traded up to get Brady Quinn and took a valuable pick, which they got from Atlanta for the Julio Jones trade, and used it on Brandon Weeden.
True, they waited to draft him at #22 and the whole of the NFL was in total shock when they made the selection.
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Seattle waited too... for a long time... even when they had Hasselbeck, who was good but not great.. going back to 1999.. Brock Huard (1999 3rd round), Josh Booty (2001 6th round), Jeff Kelly (2002 7th round), Seneca Wallace (2003 4th round), David Green (2005 3rd round), Mike Teel (2009 6th round)...
Indeed. And Seattle signed Matt Flynn too. Even with that, they drafted Wilson in the 3rd round and he went out and won the job.
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San Fran.. yea, they waited too.. let's go back to 1997 as Steve Young was nearing the final couple years of his career... Jim Druckenmiller (26th pick), Giovanni Carmazzi (2000 3rd round) and Tim Rattay (2000 7th round), Brandon Doman (2005 5th round), Ken Dorsey (2002 7th round), Cody Picket (2004 7th round), Alex Smith (2005 1st overall, doesn't really count), Nate Davis (2009 5th round)...
How far are you intending to go back? Also, other than Alex Smith, I don't think any o fthem were intended to be starting QBs for the 49ers.
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So people act as if Seattle and San Fran and these other teams had some grand plan that we just don't have or that picking a mid to late round QB and having success is some kind of a science... it seems like much more than that... It seems like hitting just the right QB at the right time with the right coach and other pieces that are poised to take off... Do we have that? Is the next Russel Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton in this draft? Probably.. who is it? and are we in a position to have them succeed?
Not at all... and I'm not sure what you suggest are mid to late round picks? I don't consider 2nd and 3rd round selections to be that.
That would certainly be the truth except that Peyton Manning would succeed here in Cleveland. So would Tom Brady. Drew Brees. Any number of QBs would be winners here in Cleveland except they are on different teams.
What we do know is that Brandon Weeden isn't the answer. Neither is Jason Campbell. The problem wasn't them, but the coaching staff's inability to get them to improve.
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Nobody is "defending" a 4-12 record. It's just some of us believe that doesn't all fall on the HC. The question is, without a QB and a running game, how do you know whether you have a good HC?
Yes they are. By defending Chudzinski, they are defending a 4-12 record. Put another way, how do you know you have a good coach after a 4-12 season? The 3rd string QB to start the season was 3-0 (or 2-0 if you wish to give Weeden the 3rd victory) as a starter. The rest of the QBs were 1-13 (or 2-12, if you prefer). Both of those QBs had more NFL game experience than that 3rd string QB and performed pathetically. That was with a highly touted OC.
The defense, statistically was fine (for a while), but somehow continued to lose games. All of that with a highly touted DC. So, if the HC isn't to blame, should he have been kept and the highly touted OC and DCs that were brought in by him fired instead?
It was a systematic failure by the coaching staff. You might make a valid case for why they should have been retained but it doesn't matter. Unless your name is on the checks of the players salaries, you really don't have much invested financially. Don't like the moves being made, you're free to abandon the team to whatever fate you think it's got and you can move on. I don't see much of anyone in Berea caring.
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Which is why so many feel they have to get the QB right. Without Foles and McCoy, how would Chip Kelly have done here?
With Hoyer and Dion Lewis, maybe Chudzinski would have had more success. We could play the 'what-if' game forever. I'm really not interested.
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While it's true the HC will come first, if you don't give him the ammunition to succeed, he very well could end up one and done too.
So be it. As a fan, I want the Browns to win. Maybe if the next HC gets the team to improve as the season progresses, even if he wins only 4, 5 or 6 games, he'll keep his job. The evaluation was that Chudzinski didn't get the team to improve and it cost him his job after just one season.
You could make the case that players like Jason Campbell, D'Qwell Jackson, TJ Ward and Joe Haden cost Chudzinski his job.
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But I believe you are right in saying you don't have to move up to get a QB. One may fall to you. But I believe you'll find a lot more Brady Quinns than Aaron Rogers if you looked into it.
Maybe some years, QBs aren't as strong as others in the draft. Last year's was particularly bad but this year's appears to be a much stronger showing at the position.
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In regards to the QB position, you're right. They need to figure it out, but right now, I want them to get the HC position right. I'll begin worrying about the QB position later.
If we don't get the QB position figured out, whoever it is will be a 2 year HC.. so you might not want to wait too long.
Fine. All I'm saying is that you don't have to move up in the draft to get a QB that will do the job you need done. The last time the team brass felt compelled to get a QB, they drafted Brandon Weeden and it's proven to be a disaster of a decision.
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In regards to the QB position, you're right. They need to figure it out, but right now, I want them to get the HC position right. I'll begin worrying about the QB position later.
If we don't get the QB position figured out, whoever it is will be a 2 year HC.. so you might not want to wait too long.
Fine. All I'm saying is that you don't have to move up in the draft to get a QB that will do the job you need done. The last time the team brass felt compelled to get a QB, they drafted Brandon Weeden and it's proven to be a disaster of a decision.
And yet you hold Chud responsible for that? Chud couldn't win with Weeden, or Campbell (one of which should never have been drafted, the other of which has proven to be a career backup).
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Nobody is "defending" a 4-12 record. It's just some of us believe that doesn't all fall on the HC. The question is, without a QB and a running game, how do you know whether you have a good HC?
Yes they are. By defending Chudzinski, they are defending a 4-12 record. Put another way, how do you know you have a good coach after a 4-12 season? The 3rd string QB to start the season was 3-0 (or 2-0 if you wish to give Weeden the 3rd victory) as a starter. The rest of the QBs were 1-13 (or 2-12, if you prefer). Both of those QBs had more NFL game experience than that 3rd string QB and performed pathetically. That was with a highly touted OC.
Do you even realize what you just said? Our 3rd string qb was our best......and he got hurt.....and our team had to go with the next available option. Period.
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Unless your name is on the checks of the players salaries, you really don't have much invested financially. Don't like the moves being made, you're free to abandon the team to whatever fate you think it's got and you can move on. I don't see much of anyone in Berea caring.
Again, I love it when one fan gives their opinion, and tells another fan of a differing opinion "Fine, don't root for the Browns then."
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Which is why so many feel they have to get the QB right. Without Foles and McCoy, how would Chip Kelly have done here?
With Hoyer and Dion Lewis, maybe Chudzinski would have had more success. We could play the 'what-if' game forever. I'm really not interested.
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While it's true the HC will come first, if you don't give him the ammunition to succeed, he very well could end up one and done too.
So be it. As a fan, I want the Browns to win. Maybe if the next HC gets the team to improve as the season progresses, even if he wins only 4, 5 or 6 games, he'll keep his job. The evaluation was that Chudzinski didn't get the team to improve and it cost him his job after just one season.
As a fan, I want the Browns to win. And constantly changing just because is no way to win.
Put ANY coach in the exact situation Chud was in, and tell me it would've been different this year. ESPECIALLY with the qb situation, the injuries, no running game, etc etc etc.
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With Hoyer and Dion Lewis, maybe Chudzinski would have had more success. We could play the 'what-if' game forever. I'm really not interested.
I didn't think you would be interested because it's not a "what if".
Chud did win with Hoyer. Which proves he could win with an average at best QB. The proof is right there for anyone interested enough in looking at it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We've waited... (or settled, depending on how you look at it)...
We have? Or the team chose poorly. It depends on how you look at it.
No, it's both. We've waited, we've reached, but we've always chosen poorly. I think I covered that when I said I'm confidant that somebody from the late first, second, or even third round is going to come out of this draft and end up being good... I'm not sure who all is coming out yet but with Bortles, McCarron, Mettenberger, Murray, etc all coming out, some of them are going to slip because of injury, no combine, poor combine, etc.. and they will end up being good.. but picking the right is extremely difficult...
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What we do know is that Brandon Weeden isn't the answer. Neither is Jason Campbell. The problem wasn't them, but the coaching staff's inability to get them to improve.
See, I waffle on this. On one hand I agree with you that I think our staff (our whole organization) has done a poor job of putting QBs in a position to succeed... on the other hand, the QBs we've drafted just seem to be limited in their ability to a point where I wonder what staff could have made them better.
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With Hoyer and Dion Lewis, maybe Chudzinski would have had more success. We could play the 'what-if' game forever. I'm really not interested.
I didn't think you would be interested because it's not a "what if".
Chud did win with Hoyer. Which proves he could win with an average at best QB. The proof is right there for anyone interested enough in looking at it.
But the question is "Was Hoyer the benifit of teams not have game film on him?" I've seen this before in Holcomb and Anderson. Guy looks good starting out but once teams have enough film to gameplan for their weaknesses they fall apart.
Would of loved to have seen Hoyer the whole year so we could know more about him.
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Oh I'm not saying that Hoyer is the answer. What I am saying is he displayed some accuracy, seemed to lead the WR's, had a quick release and didn't hold the ball too long.
As a result of that, we won games. It elevated the play of our WR's and to me it seemed to be a shot in the arm for the entire team.
Looking at the small sample, it may think that my suggestion is that we may have been a playoff team or even better with Hoyer at QB. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Point being, if when your team is getting adequate QB play and are winning because of it, that's a clear indication that your HC can win games given that situation.
Trying to suggest that Weeden could be coached up considering all of the weaknesses in his game that were so very obvious, I find a huge reach at best. And a nine year veteran you can sign to around 3 mil. is what he is.
So you could insert any name in there other than Hoyer. As long as that QB is playing at an average or above level. You have to give a HC talent with which he stands at least an average chance to win with.
I believe a fine example is KC. They had plenty of pro bowlers and no QB. They were a laughing stock. While Alex Smith isn't the greatest QB, he fit the system and average at least. The results speak for themselves.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I looked at the stats between the 3 QB's,not much difference.Although Hoyer's rating was 6 points higher,other than that,pretty much the same.
What it did prove to me,was if the Browns could have played a winless team (Vikings) or a team without it's starting DB's (Cincy) each and every week,they would have won alot more games.
Then we all could agree that Chud did a slam-bang job.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I looked at the stats between the 3 QB's,not much difference.Although Hoyer's rating was 6 points higher,other than that,pretty much the same.
What it did prove to me,was if the Browns could have played a winless team (Vikings) or a team without it's starting DB's (Cincy) each and every week,they would have won alot more games.
Then we all could agree that Chud did a slam-bang job.
Considering that Russel Wilson's stats were only a little better than Romo's and Matt Ryan had better stats across the board than Andy Dalton, I think it proves that stats aren't the end all... some guys just make plays that win games (like Russel Wilson) and some guys make plays that lose games (like Tony Romo) and it's not always reflected in the stats.
All things considered, Hoyer made plays that our other QBs didn't make to win games....
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and I think that would be really ugly.
It's already ugly.
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And yet you hold Chud responsible for that?
No, I don't hold him responsible for that. What I hold him responsible for is 0-7 to end the season. I hold him responsible for the overall performance of the team.
As sad as it may sound, Brandon Weeden may have actually regressed under his time as the head coach. Anyone here can let you know what I think of Weeden, but Weeden did go 5-10 last season. This season he was 0-5 and a statistical analysis would indicate that he got worse. In 15 games last season, Weeden was sacked 28 times. In 8 games, 5 starts, Weeden was sacked 27 times. His completion percentage actually went down almost 5% (from 57.4% to 52.8%). He was taken down by opposing teams nearly one in every 11 pass attempts this season. Last year, that number was about 1 in every 20 pass attempts.
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Chud couldn't win with Weeden, or Campbell (one of which should never have been drafted, the other of which has proven to be a career backup).
Campbell was serving in the role of a backup, and he wasn't a career backup. He was a starter for Washington and Oakland for 5-1/2 seasons before losing his job.
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I looked at the stats between the 3 QB's,not much difference.Although Hoyer's rating was 6 points higher,other than that,pretty much the same.
What it did prove to me,was if the Browns could have played a winless team (Vikings) or a team without it's starting DB's (Cincy) each and every week,they would have won alot more games.
Then we all could agree that Chud did a slam-bang job.
You are more than welcome to throw stats out if you wish.
But for those who watched those games, the entire team played with a much higher intensity. You could just see it. If you didn't see those games or purely base your opiniuon on stats, that's fine.
But most of the posters on this board saw it and said pretty much the same thing I have here. It changed more than the QB play. Which is what happens when you have a QB a team believes they have a chance to win with.
You lean on those stats and I'll lean on what I saw.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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And Campbell's record with washington and oakland was??????????
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I honestly didn't see it....cue in Mr.Agenda for telling me "wow". I think Campbell vs NE and BAL had much better games than Hoyer had. Those were the two best QB starts I saw by Browns QB in 2013....and no, I dont want Campbell to start next season. I still think people make incredibly irrational judgements with regards to Saint Hoyer, like saying the D played "more inspired" although it was the same inconsistent D we saw all year. Another factor was that we won, which always puts on the rose coloured glasses, although I admit that is a chicken-egg problem and boils down to belief, but remember the excitement and articles written after Campbell's first two starts, oh well. The biggest factor in those games imho was the Return of Gordon which coincides with Hoyer's starts....he was matched up 1on1 vs backup CBs in those games and that was before the hype, so DCs didn't concentrate on him as they were preoccupied with stopping the next great TE Cameron. I'll say the blasphemy: Gordon made Hoyer "appear", not the other way around. He's not a real saint
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I actually saw Bess and Little catching passes.  I don't believe he's Saint Hoyer either. I do believe the team played with more intensity with him at QB though. I suppose the perception of what we saw is simply different.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
You are more than welcome to throw stats out if you wish.
But for those who watched those games, the entire team played with a much higher intensity.
This team played w/intensity down the stretch? 
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And Campbell's record with washington and oakland was??????????
Not real good but better than it was here.. statistically he probably
had his worst year since he was a rookie...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
And Campbell's record with washington and oakland was??????????
W31 - L 39
Better than the W1 - L7 that he accumulated for the Browns this season.
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Quote:
Quote:
And Campbell's record with washington and oakland was??????????
W31 - L 39
Better than the W1 - L7 that he accumulated for the Browns this season.
Thanks.
He's nothing but a backup qb. We all knew that, no doubt. But some idiots on here want to make it about Chud................a freaking backup qb is a backup qb, regardless.
We knew what he was. Apparently Chud knew what he was, as he skipped over him to put Hoyer in. Hoyer gets hurt..........you sure as hell don't go back to weeden.........so, the backup to the backup, that's always been a backup comes in.
And we don't win.
And we fire the coach.
Got it.
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Thanks.
He's nothing but a backup qb. We all knew that, no doubt. But some idiots on here want to make it about Chud................a freaking backup qb is a backup qb, regardless.
Campbell was a starting QB and it is about Chudzinski. He was the HC. It was his job to get the team to compete. He failed.
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We knew what he was. Apparently Chud knew what he was, as he skipped over him to put Hoyer in. Hoyer gets hurt..........you sure as hell don't go back to weeden.........so, the backup to the backup, that's always been a backup comes in.
But he did go back to Weeden when Hoyer went down. And it was Lombardi that fought to bring Hoyer in. He always spoke highly of Hoyer. As it turned out, in limited playing time (3 starts), Hoyer proved that he was the best QB on the roster.
Also, remember that Chudzinski had Hoyer as the 3rd string QB, not the backup. He's the one that put Campbell behind Weeden on the depth chart only to start Hoyer over Campbell after Weeden got sidelined by the injury to his thumb.
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And we don't win.
And we fire the coach.
Got it.
In the eyes of the owner, the team regressed as the season went on. I happen to agree with that evaluation. I'm not really happy or sad about Chudzinski's firing. I wasn't high on his coaching abilities but felt that maybe some more time could have improved the team. The owner isn't willing to wait another 5 years to make the playoffs (if we would ever get there). He obviously wants marked improvement from one year to the next.
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You are more than welcome to throw stats out if you wish.
But for those who watched those games, the entire team played with a much higher intensity.
This team played w/intensity down the stretch?
Obviously you don't follow the thread. It was in reference to when Hoyer was playing. With a QB who played average or above football, Chud could win.
The fact that Hoyer went down isn't Chud's fault. Kind of funny really. Many talk about Johnny Football and one reason is because of that "it factor". How firey he is and how much of a difference that will make. How that's just what we need.
Then when the subject turns to Chud, suddenly he didn't need any of that to be judged so quickly. He didn't need enough weapons and a QB he could succeed with. He didn't need a RB.
Even you said it was the players who quit. Then suddenly when Chud gets fired, you seem to try to justify it.
Flip flop.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Also, remember that Chudzinski had Hoyer as the 3rd string QB, not the backup. He's the one that put Campbell behind Weeden on the depth chart only to start Hoyer over Campbell after Weeden got sidelined by the injury to his thumb.
So in the end, Chud made the right call on who to start? I don't see where you have people on a piece of paper making a lot of difference. To me it's the decision making when it comes time to name a starter.
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In the eyes of the owner, the team regressed as the season went on. I happen to agree with that evaluation. I'm not really happy or sad about Chudzinski's firing. I wasn't high on his coaching abilities but felt that maybe some more time could have improved the team. The owner isn't willing to wait another 5 years to make the playoffs (if we would ever get there). He obviously wants marked improvement from one year to the next.
So let me get this straight. Shurmer had a system that had been here for more than a year. A system all of the players knew. Other than Bess and a bunch of UDFA's, you give Chud no help accept for one QB with which he won games as long as he was healthy. You throw in entirely new systems on both sides of the ball.
I understand that the owner wishes to see improvement. What I believe is becoming the concern is, will he be patient enough to give a HC the time to improve and get better. So far all we have to judge that on is a "one and done" situation.
What I don't want to see people try to proclaim? That when they give a HC a good QB that stays healthy and a running game, they try to compare the outcome to Chud. You can't give a guy a shovel and then compare what he accomplishes to someone who has a bulldozer.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Obviously you don't follow the thread. It was in reference to when Hoyer was playing. With a QB who played average or above football, Chud could win.
Since I began the thread and the subject is "Well, we know where the Browns are slotted in the NFL Draft", maybe you shouldn't cast too many rocks at other people's houses.
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Ah, so quoting someone's comment out of context is the same thing. got it.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Texans owner McNair open to trade the #1 pick HOUSTON -- Houston Texans owner Bob McNair is open to trading out of the No. 1 overall selection in this year's NFL draft. "Maybe we'll trade down and still get a quarterback that can do the job and get an outstanding defensive player," McNair said Friday. "It's an exciting time. Everything's a moving target. Lot of different pieces." The Texans secured the top pick with a league-worst 2-14 record last season. They fired coach Gary Kubiak on Dec. 6 and officially announced the hiring of Bill O'Brien on Friday to be the franchise's third head coach. Houston needs a quarterback with the likely departure of veteran Matt Schaub and the struggles of young quarterback Case Keenum, who started eight games and didn't win any of them. "I don't think you take a particular position just because you need a particular position at any point in the draft, especially the first pick," Texans general manager Rick Smith said. "So we'll rank it, we'll value it and we'll make good choices if the opportunity presents itself to move back because it is a very valuable pick, and we'll entertain those as well." This is the third time the Texans have had the No. 1 overall pick, and each time it has coincided with a new head coach. With their first No. 1 overall pick, the expansion Texans selected quarterback David Carr in 2002. With their second in 2006, the Texans took pass rusher Mario Williams. "The defensive player worked out better than the offensive player," McNair said with a chuckle. "That won't lock us into anything."
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a trade between them and us could very well be a possibility then. Bridgewater hope is building!  I wonder if that "defensive" player they need is a d-linemen? If so, maybe we can even work a trade for one our d-linemen (prefer not Rubin/Taylor and Winn!) and ship them our first pick, keeping us in the first round still and moving up to acquire our quote/end quote "franchise QB"? 
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That would be great. I would trade both 1st rounders to move up and get Bridgewater. I don't know if I would go beyond that .... but I would go in with both 1st rounders.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Well, we know where the Browns are
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