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J/C
I know we need a quarterback. . . and if we draft a quarterback, I want a big, strong, competitor. - Give me Bridgewater or Bortles.
However, the thought of adding Jadaveon Clowney or Sammy Watkins gets me pumped. Either way, I would not trade up at all. We don't have the resources to trade up. We need Joe Haden, and we need all the draft picks we can get, especially in the first round.
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I agree. I sit and take two players in the first. Heck, if the guy we don't want is there at #4, I'd trade down too.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
I agree. I sit and take two players in the first. Heck, if the guy we don't want is there at #4, I'd trade down too.
How about this for a novel idea?
The Browns come out and say that they're open to trading out of the #4 spot and see what kind of offers they get, including from teams above them to see what these teams would ask in return. 
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I agree. I would not be at all upset if we have to "settle" for Clowney or Watkins.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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How about this for a novel idea?
Get a franchise qb in here and win some games.
The Bengals might have the most talented roster in the NFL. They make teams like New England, Green Bay, Indy, etc look like college rosters.
One problem. Their QB sucks. They ain't going anywhere until they get one. We won't either.
And if we draft Clowney---from what I know about him----------I might quit on this franchise.
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Quote:
How about this for a novel idea?
Get a franchise qb in here and win some games.
Don't we have Weeden? Wasn't he supposed to be the 'franchise QB'? So much hate for McCoy that the previous FO begged to be fired and mocked by every other NFL franchise for drafting Weeden. At least McCoy (6-15) won more games for the team than Weeden (5-15).
You need a competent QB to handle the duties until you can get your a 'franchise' QB. Speaking of 'franchise' QBs, what have Matthew Stafford done in Detroit? Matt Ryan in Atlanta? Sam Bradford in St. Louis? Jake Locker in Tennessee? Matt Schaub in Houston? Mark Sanchez at the NY Jets? Any QB in Oakland since the days of Rich Gannon?
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The Bengals might have the most talented roster in the NFL. They make teams like New England, Green Bay, Indy, etc look like college rosters.
One problem. Their QB sucks. They ain't going anywhere until they get one. We won't either.
I wouldn't say that Dalton sucks. The coaches in Cincy are a problem, including Zimmer.
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And if we draft Clowney---from what I know about him----------I might quit on this franchise.
And hardly nobody would notice.
However, I would just say that the Browns need to have competence at every position before they try to get elite players at every location. Just get some good players at EVERY position. The guards have mostly been garbage. The RT needs an upgrade. Schwartz might make a decent backup RT, but he shouldn't be starting.
I would even trade away some of the 'elite' players that we have (Joe Thomas comes to mind) to acquire more picks. We could replace him with a player that isn't quite as good but also upgrade another position or two with players able to actually start in the NFL.
All I'm saying is get capable players at all the positions and then begin to upgrade them with 'elite' players. Build me an OL like San Francisco has and you can turn Edwin Baker into Emmitt Smith's clone, Brian Hoyer into Drew Brees' twin brother and Josh Gordon into Michael Irvin's cousin.
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Quote:
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I agree. I sit and take two players in the first. Heck, if the guy we don't want is there at #4, I'd trade down too.
How about this for a novel idea?
The Browns come out and say that they're open to trading out of the #4 spot and see what kind of offers they get, including from teams above them to see what these teams would ask in return.
I'd suggest always listening to any offer, even for John Thomas himself (doesn't mean you're open to doing the deal, just listening).
I was just saying what I'd ultimately want to happen. I'd still play every angle possible if I were the GM. I'd add, I'm also a horrible talent evaluator, so I'd be lost.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'd suggest always listening to any offer, even for John Thomas himself
That is one epic Freudian slip.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Ha ha ha...damn autocorrect. Sorry Joe.  If someone called and offered five first round picks for him and <insert some insane thing that wouldn't happen>...you have to take that call and at least think about it. I don't care who it is on you roster.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I agree. I sit and take two players in the first. Heck, if the guy we don't want is there at #4, I'd trade down too.
I wouldn't trade back too far.. there are some serious game changers with Evans, Watkins, Clowney that can be had at 4... and I want one if we don't get the QB.. Last thing I want to do is trade out of #4 and watch Watkins or Evans get drafted and become the next Julio Jones or Clowney become the next JJ Watt... We need difference makers..
That said, I'll always answer the phone and listen to offers and if one of them includes a nice (potentially) high #1 next year I'd certainly listen to that offer....
yebat' Putin
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I'd suggest always listening to any offer, even for John Thomas himself
That is one epic Freudian slip.
John Thomas is his wife's best friend.
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Ha ha ha...damn autocorrect.
Sorry Joe.
If someone called and offered five first round picks for him and <insert some insane thing that wouldn't happen>...you have to take that call and at least think about it. I don't care who it is on you roster.
If Washington called and offered their first rounders for the next 3 seasons, I'd make the deal.
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Why do you keep bringing up Weeden when talking to me. No one bashed Weeden more than me. No one. The rest of your post............  You really don't mean all that crap, do you? 
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Why do you keep bringing up Weeden when talking to me. No one bashed Weeden more than me. No one.
Except for me. And I only mention Weeden because he was supposed to be the Browns 'franchise QB' when drafted by the morons Holmgren & Heckert.
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The rest of your post............
You really don't mean all that crap, do you?
Yes, I mean every word of it.
The coaches in Cincy aren't getting the job done. Making the playoffs three years in a row only to produce 'one & done' results in each of them. That tells me that the team is good enough to get there but that the coaches aren't getting the job done.
And, on the rest, I really don't think that Haslam would miss you in the least if you decided to go cheer on a different team. I really would say that no player on the team, at any position, wasn't on the trade block if a proper offer game along.
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I'm okay with them picking up a QB this year... If the guy they want is there. If Manziel or Bortles fall to them at 4, you take him if you think he can do the job..
But if you don't think that guy is in this draft... I'm okay with riding out with Hoyer this year.
Next year's QB class is also going to be pretty deep.
I'm really okay with bolstering the O-Line/Wide Receivers/ and Running back this year and then installing the QB into the system where there's more talent.
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anybody see McShays new draft ranking?
he has bortles as the #2 QB, and maziel at #3.
no way in hell is bortles rated higher than manziel.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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anybody see McShays new draft ranking?
he has bortles as the #2 QB, and maziel at #3.
no way in hell is bortles rated higher than manziel.
Why not? Is it because his game isn't as sexy as Manziels?
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As it relates to everyones dislike for Manziels attitude...
I am not a fan that his people put out that he will be announcing what he's doing today...
Just put out what you're doing... Don't try to make it a spectacle...
I hate when people make spectacles of their... choices...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Come on, that's a pretty haterific reach. Everyone announces whether they're going into the NFL draft or not. Chances are that he'll either announce it via twitter or by a school sponsored press conference, neither of which are spectacles. Both, however, are usually done when announcing whether you're going to the NFL draft or not.
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I don't recall Bridgewater or Bortles having press conferences, correct me if I'm wrong...
I'm not "hating" on the guy, but having a press conference at all to walk up and say "I'm going into the draft" and then answer questions about how awesome you are..
It's pretty "Hey everybody look at me!"
I'm totally fine if we draft him.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/co...ng-ucf-20140106,0,3044060.story Bortles had a press conference and Teddy released a statement via the school. It's not like this is going to be nationally broadcasted by ESPN or another Disney owned company. It's really just not a big deal at all, and the media will just ask him the standard questions about how he came to his conclusion and his best memories or some real fluff pieces.
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Quote:
anybody see McShays new draft ranking?
he has bortles as the #2 QB, and maziel at #3.
no way in hell is bortles rated higher than manziel.
CBS has the same, and Walterfootball, and drafttek, and I'm sure more, I didn't check any others.
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Well, McShay's MO has been to be a clearinghouse of the draft boards of other internet sites, so I'm not surprised.
I don't think there's a single thing that Bortles does better than Manziel than "be big."
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I'm not really blown away with Bortles. If anything, it's reminding me of the, "Well, With Luck/RGIII gone, do we just pull the trigger on Tannehill at #4?" debate. Reaching on a guy who's only had two seasons starting under his belt (to be fair, so does Johnny), throws a lot of bubble screens, doesn't always take care of the football, and doesn't have to make many post-snap reads. He does have the tools to be successful and I do see improvement in him from his second start against OSU to this year (in decision making) to now to be optimistic, but he will need time and might have just as high a bust factor as Manziel.. He is a better arm talent than Manziel and does seem to have that late-game charisma, too. I'm just glad I'm not making this decision. We need a QB.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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I'm not really blown away with Bortles. If anything, it's reminding me of the, "Well, With Luck/RGIII gone, do we just pull the trigger on Tannehill at #4?" debate.
There are an eerily high number of parallels to two years ago, right down to us picking #4 with a 2nd 1st-rounder and 4th rounder from the same playoff team.
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He is a better arm talent than Manziel
Are you talking about Bortles? If so, I have to strongly disagree with your assessment.
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Maybe my definition of "arm talent" is too all-encompassing, I mean just arm strength.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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Still disagree. Manziel flicks his wrist and throws a solid 25 yard pass. Bortles winds up to do that from what I've seen.
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Manziel has really weak arm strength. I'm not sure where you see him "flick his wrist" and have success.
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You might be right. I'd only seen two games of Manziel's (one was this year vs. Bama where he's falling backwards and throws that hanger to I think Evans in the middle). There's a few more where he does flick in some dimes deep. I'd like to see more where he doesn't have his feet completely underneath him and still zip one in with velocity. The accuracy isn't even debatable between the two, however.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
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j/c
From the posts I've read, it seems that there is no real slam-dunk prospect coming out this year. There are guys that some posters are high upon, but all seem to have question marks attached to them as well.
Which brings me to this: Another poster recently said he'd be OK giving HoyCamp another year, using the picks to solidify the team while waiting for next year's crop of QB's
Question: Who is in next year's class, and are any worth the wait? Is there a Luck in the bunch?
C'mon, College Gurus. Drop some 411 on us, if you would.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Manziel has really weak arm strength. I'm not sure where you see him "flick his wrist" and have success.
I've never seen anybody describe it as really weak.. the worst I've seen is average.. and from what I've observed, it's not below average...
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One thing I can say for sure Clem, there are only slam dunk QB's in the draft on very slim occasions. I actually believe since Peyton Manning, Luck was the next in line to be considered in that manner. So every QB since Peyton up until Luck had some questions surrounding them. Even last year we heard how this FO was setting itself up to draft a QB this year because this class was so much better. And I believe it is. Secondly, I believe you have to look at opportunity. IF this FO feels one of the two top QB's are the answer, we have the opportunity to act upon that. Even if they wait and the guy they want falls to #4, the opportunity is there. So I believe the question you're asking really is a little more complicated. It then becomes...... When will we suck enough and the perfect QB prospect come into the draft that we will actually be in the position to draft happen all at the same time? That could be never!  So while posters banter about positive and negative things about all of the QB's, that has been done with every college QB with the few exceptions coming along over a decade apart. The proper evaluation and development of a QB are the overriding factors. If we were to wait until the stars align so that "the perfect prospect" comes into any draft that we are set up with "the prefect opportunity to draft him", we most likely would never see the Browns draft a franchise QB in our lifetime. JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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 en eye-opening read. Thanks, Pit
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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You're quite welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful in some way.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You still didn't answer why you are using the Weeden argument w/me. I never backed him. Ever.
It's not the coaches for the Bengals, it's the fact that their QB is erratic.
I think you take a controversial approach to be just that, but I really am not getting the feeling that you put the work in to make well-informed decisions.
No offense..........it's good to have people out there that are non-conformists and believe in anarchy. It helps keep people honest.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm not really blown away with Bortles. If anything, it's reminding me of the, "Well, With Luck/RGIII gone, do we just pull the trigger on Tannehill at #4?" debate.
There are an eerily high number of parallels to two years ago, right down to us picking #4 with a 2nd 1st-rounder and 4th rounder from the same playoff team.
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He is a better arm talent than Manziel
Are you talking about Bortles? If so, I have to strongly disagree with your assessment.
A couple of good posts, here.
There are a lot of comparisons there w/the Bortles/Tannehill thing .Good job.
Also, I agree w/Steve that Manziel has a better arm than Bortles.
I have a soft spot for Bortles. I was the first guy to bring him up on the board. I was looking for a sleeper qb and he was my guy. I had him graded at that time [early in the season] as a 3rd round developmental QB. I did say he would probably shoot up the boards and that was assured once the Knights started winning so many games.
So, I feel this connection w/him because he was the guy I was pimping, but I didn't pimp him as a first rounder. I will say that I probably undervalued his worth. He's better than a 3rd round prospect. I recognized that as I watched more of his games through out the year. With that said.............I don't think he is better than either Teddy or Manziel.
Yes, Bortles has better size. Okay..............then what? He is not as good w/changing plays and reading coverages as the other two. He isn't quite as accurate as the other two. He doesn't recognize blitzes like Teddy. He isn't the playmaker that Manziel is.
I am not bashing him. But, I really don't feel he is a better player than the other two guys. I would be okay w/drafting him in the 20s of the first round. I don't feel he is the 20th to 29th best player in the country, but he is a QB who has an upside. No way would I draft him before Teddy or Johnny Football.
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You still didn't answer why you are using the Weeden argument w/me. I never backed him. Ever.
I wasn't specifically. Just using the argument against all those that say that we need to get our 'franchise QB', whatever that is. Weeden, as an example, was supposed to be that, whatever it is, for the Browns.
It's just a general comment about the Browns getting a 'franchise QB'. Just make sure that we have competent ones. We don't need a Matt Ryan type. A QB like Alex Smith could do just fine for the Browns.
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It's not the coaches for the Bengals, it's the fact that their QB is erratic.
Not all QBs can be steady like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Nick Foles (for the record, I wanted the Browns to draft him). Just get us one that isn't less than mediocre to mediocre. An above average QB will be able to succeed in the NFL on a team like the Browns.
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I think you take a controversial approach to be just that, but I really am not getting the feeling that you put the work in to make well-informed decisions.
Whatever. I do a fair amount of research, watching players and reading the observations of many others. It isn't my full-time job (heck, I don't even get paid for it), but I think I do a fair amount more than others that make remarks here. Sometimes, perhaps often, my viewpoint doesn't mesh with the 'experts' or those of the fans that post in here. Oh well. I'm not changing my mind because you think I'm controversial or confrontational approach. I simply disagree with many (nearly all) that post messages here.
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No offense..........it's good to have people out there that are non-conformists and believe in anarchy. It helps keep people honest.
I don't believe in anarchy. There's a much more political story behind my 'nom de plume' and, in my view, it isn't a good one.
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2015 is Jameis Winston, Brett Hundley, Marcus Mariota, Bryce Petty, Kevin Hogan, Connor Cook, and a few more stragglers. If I were to make a list for the QBs in the past year it'd look like:
Luck (Once a decade QB)
Jameis Winston
RG3 & Bridgewater
Brett Hundley, Kevin Hogan, Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel.
Marcus Mariota, Bryce Petty, Connor Cook and Ryan Tannenhill, EJ Manuel
But Bridgewater is a slam dunk prospect.
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Luck is the best of the bunch. No doubt.
I would take Teddy and Johnny Football over any of the guys coming out next year. Then again, I value brains over brawn.
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Dunno where the mental comment is from considering both Kevin Hogan, Jameis Winston, Bryce Petty are all much smarter than Johnny Manziel. I think you're getting some bad information as JManziel's biggest down fall is his brain.
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Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Well, we know where the Browns are
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