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Isn't that contradictory to how much time they've spent on the back end of the roster?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It is actually another point that proves my theory.
They have hired/fired there a lot. They simply ARE searching for championship caliber there too. B.Rainey being let go is a prime example. He will never be a good starting RB, but he was serviceable and for sure better than McGahee, but they missed it looking for greatness to show itself. They also were ready to move on when they decided that upside was missing with Rainey. So far, it seems they haven't found any, not even functional depth but they're willing to experiment with the last 10-15 roster spots at the cost of not having superior depth and good ST play. We've had to endure the tough part of that when several of those guys had to play meaningful downs late in the season. They're using the bottom part of the roster for that search of the holy blue chipper grail too, as they have the numbers that show that UDFAs are up there in blue chippers compared to late rounders
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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j/c
i thought new owner = continuity (as he promised). that would have been bold rather than just rebooting every year as we have done.
either a new HC or new regime or new owner every single year? i don't even know what to do anymore.
#gmstrong
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i know he didn't do any better when he left..but...
T rich is going to the playoffs....and that 1st round pick is gonna be in the high 20's.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Hypocrisy aside, this Lombo article from 2010 after Denver fired McDaniels proves some of my points…he also draws a lot of parallels from Bellichick's career to McDaniel's…so be prepared: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81...tment-to-changeWhat happened to Josh McDaniels on Monday, being fired not even two full years into his tenure with the Denver Broncos, was, as Yogi Berra once said, "Déjà vu all over again." At least it was for me. I saw this before, back in 1996, when I was director of player personnel for the Browns and owner Art Modell fired Bill Belichick over the phone on Valentine's Day. Modell struggled with the fans' reluctance to embrace their young coach from his first day on the job. Modell struggled with the losing season as the team planned to move from Cleveland to Baltimore. More than anything, he struggled with staying with the plan. Modell failed to see the future, as he wanted to make the fans happy and never felt there was more than a ripple of hope staying the course with his youthful coach.Having worked side by side with Belichick for five years, I honestly knew one day he was going to eventually win a Super Bowl, in part because he was super smart and had a willingness to adapt. He was always divergent in his thought process. He was, and still is, the best listener I have ever been around. With Belichick, there was never an ego in the room. He only focused on what was urgent and important each day. He had core principles and beliefs he adhered to, never wavering off those beliefs. But in Cleveland, he could not overcome the changes he insisted on making, which alienated the fan base and caused concern for Modell. And when the 1995 season slipped away from us, we all knew we were in trouble. In any sport, losing is extremely difficult -- it's hard on the mind, body and spirit. It challenges every prior belief an organization holds true, forcing constant evaluations of the path, the direction and the journey chosen for the organization. It is human nature to second-guess every move on a losing path. Few, in most sports, are willing to brave the losing, the criticism of the media, or the wrath of their fans. Believing in principles and having the courage to stand alone is a rarer quality than bravery in battle or superior intelligence. Yet it is the one essential for teams that desire to win Super Bowls.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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2010, writes that.
2013, part of a FO that cuts a coach his 1st season.
welp....at least we have 6 pro bowlers.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
2010, writes that.
2013, part of a FO that cuts a coach his 1st season.
welp....at least we have 6 pro bowlers.
5 and an almost 
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Quote:
2010, writes that.
2013, part of a FO that cuts a coach his 1st season.
welp....at least we have 6 pro bowlers.
but we may lose 2 of those 6 pro bowlers (Mack and Ward). We also have 7 picks in the first 100 players and we were listening to pregame driving to pittsburgh today and they were going through our 2014 schedule and we have a easier non-divisional schedule next year.
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Is anyone really surprised that we lead off the bloodbath? By this time tomorrow five or six Head Coaches will be unemployed. But we got it done FIRST. LMAO
Fact is none of these bozo's did a very good job this year. From Haslam on down. Not one person in this front office or coaching staff can look in the mirror and confidently say, "I did a great job this season".
That said, the blame should be shared equally. It wasn't Chud's fault Banner decided to trade away the only running back on the roster for future considerations. To pass on a QB and take a project OLB in the first.... we could have had EJ Manuel. Wasn't Chuds fault our "attack" defense got two more sacks than last years squad under Dick Jauron.
What they are saying is, "Gee, we really made a mistake when we hired our HC last year. We need a do-over". This is their "mulligan".
And we're supposed to believe these guys, who seemingly have real difficulty deciding on a head coach, are the capable of drafting us a franchise quarterback? Yeah, right.
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Josh McDaniel's is NOT Bill Belichick. Belichick was BORN into coaching. From the minute he took his first breath he was a coaches son. He was raised in an era when respect was earned and not given. He was trained and on staff with some of the greatest minds the sport of football has produced. Bill B is one of a kind. And anyone that tries to mimic him ultimately fails. A copy will always be fake and unsuccessful.
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~ Legend
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JC
It's odd to see Lombardi do these bold moves since he's always played it safe as a GM. He'll rarely draft anyone with a history of drug use (Sapp, Gordon, Honeybadger, and others) so to see him make bold moves is odd.
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All Pro
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I remember wanting Beli-choke run out of town. I thought he'd never learn and adapt, I didn't think he could make in game adjustments, I thought his Offense was outdated, and that he was a jerk.
Then somehow he turns into a HOF coach? Sigh, only the Browns my friends.
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I loved Belichick's philosophies, though his manners and such left some definite room for improvement. He certainly wasn't afraid of a bold move, that's for sure.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
They simply ARE searching for championship caliber there too. B.Rainey being let go is a prime example. He will never be a good starting RB, but he was serviceable and for sure better than McGahee, but they missed it looking for greatness to show itself.
I would say that would fall at Chuds feet. It's up to him to play the players given him. I seriously doubt Lombardi and or Banner came in to Chuds office and told him they just cut Rainey.
The probability is they came in to Chuds and said they like player so and so and need to clear a roster spot. Who can you do without?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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" From the minute he took his first breath he was a coaches son."
The same applies to Mcdaniels.
" He was trained and on staff with some of the greatest minds "
The same applies to Mcdaniels.
"A copy will always be fake and unsuccessful. "
Tell that to the Chinese.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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" Believing in principles and having the courage to stand alone is a rarer quality than bravery in battle or superior intelligence. "
I have been saying for years that I really don't care anymore.That was a lie I was telling myself.As more and more info began to flow last evening,nothing fazed me.After the initial shock,there was no resentment no anger,no nothing.It would appear as though I've reached my goal.
The above statement.
I would love to meet the egotistical,POS,a-hole that said that.
Obviously this man knows nothing about fear.Fear of dying,fear of your brothers dying.
Perhaps if he and I were left alone in locked room,I could maybe make him understand the difference between standing alone and dying on a battlefield.
The new Brown's motto;
We will worship at the feet of the one God,
Belicheck
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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all this stuff that lombardi does with regards to belichick really disturbs me.
it really is like this guy worships the ground he steps on.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Are you really saying that Banner and Lombardi cut Rainey? Are you really saying that Chud did not cut Rainey?
Look, I am unhappy w/this move, too.........but quit making stuff up.
Calling them ignorant and elitists and then telling lies are pretty lame ways of trying to prove your point.
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Who cut Rainey is irrelevant to my point, but wasn't it a consensus anyway, so all agreed to that move. My point is that THEY, the consensus, think in those reductionist terms of "blue chip" and everything else. Thus it made little difference to them if they cut Rainey or Hazel or E.Martin etc. The only thing it tells us is that they thought that Rainey had less of a shot at greatness than the others kept. They think in terms of that "upside" even with depth options or, in other words, they care more about the untapped virtual ceiling than the player's actual floor and ability at hand. Only if you look at the bottom 3rd of the roster with this lens, it made sense to cut Rainey.
Maybe they were just wrong though, not much of a loss, I don't want to discuss Rainey here. He's not the problem I have with this logic, just a symptom of it at best. My point is that this approach values potential ceiling over everything else even down on the roster, instead of looking for better gameday and ST depth with lesser ceiling and imho that has cost us games too this season. In that regard this approach is a 180 to Mangini's, who filled even important starting jobs with ST talent and cared more for instant playing ability over potential to a fault. As always, we seem to fall from one extreme logic into its opposite….the only constant is the bottom line results.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I posted a report that Chud wanted certain players added to the roster, or to be part of the roster, and was overruled by Lombardi. (such as a true FB, which Chud wanted) Here is one player's opinion of this mess ..... and whoever he is, he's right ...... http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/cleveland_browns_head_coach_ro_1.htmlNFL Network's Mike Silver said one Browns player texted him, "this organization is a joke'' and another "we are so dysfunctional. These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends.'' This player is right.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't give a damn what the players say. Maybe they learned a lesson on not to quit on the coach at the end of the year.
And the fact they wouldn't put their name to it makes them cowards too.
I don't like it at all either, but this horsecrap needs to stop with anonymous players acting like Chud was a godsend.
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
I posted a report that Chud wanted certain players added to the roster, or to be part of the roster, and was overruled by Lombardi. (such as a true FB, which Chud wanted)
Here is one player's opinion of this mess ..... and whoever he is, he's right ......
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/12/cleveland_browns_head_coach_ro_1.html
NFL Network's Mike Silver said one Browns player texted him, "this organization is a joke'' and another "we are so dysfunctional. These billionaires need to pick somebody and stay with them. These aren't girlfriends.''
This player is right.
I've seen this quote elsewhere on here and it was attributed to D'Qwell.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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BOLD and STUPID is no way to run a football team.
This is STUPID.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Agreed. We need to run some of the players out with him. I don't like Chud being fired, and have said the FO is dysfunctional for doing so. However, these guys quit on him mid way through the season and need to be held responsible to.
Vers mentioned needing an entire culture change within the organization, and I agree. We need to get rid of a lot of these guys who know nothing but losing and whining since they came here. At least Joe and DQ had the stones to say what they said on camera........the rest of them are ball less cowards who quit on the freaking coach they are whining about....uggghh!!!
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
Are you really saying that Banner and Lombardi cut Rainey? Are you really saying that Chud did not cut Rainey?
Look, I am unhappy w/this move, too.........but quit making stuff up.
Calling them ignorant and elitists and then telling lies are pretty lame ways of trying to prove your point.
In their press conference Banner said something about roster decisions being group decision and not everyone always agreed but they tried for a consensus. Sounds like Banner and Lombardi were quite involved in roster decisions. There's as much evidence of Banner making roster decisions as there was of Heckert doing it, but that didn't stop you from stating it.
I do know they were the ones that signed McSlowly.
Unless Chud and Norv are blind, something was making them trot Wille Slow out there week after week. Something made them play Bsss when clearly his head was somewhere else....
All that aside, Banner and Lombardi are off to a SPECTACULAR start, aren't they? They go out and pick their first head coach and want a mulligan ONE YEAR LATER. Only in Cleveland.
Now, we're supposed to buy in to them being capable of hiring a quality head coach. They just proved they aren't very capable in that area(their opinion not mine). Hiring a guy you have to fire one year later seems deficient to me. Not only that, we're supposed to buy in to them being capable of choosing and drafting a franchise quarterback?
Dark times ahead in the factory of sadness. Thanks Jimmy for making this franchise MORE of a joke than it was before....
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Quote:
Quote:
Are you really saying that Banner and Lombardi cut Rainey? Are you really saying that Chud did not cut Rainey?
Look, I am unhappy w/this move, too.........but quit making stuff up.
Calling them ignorant and elitists and then telling lies are pretty lame ways of trying to prove your point.
In their press conference Banner said something about roster decisions being group decision and not everyone always agreed but they tried for a consensus. Sounds like Banner and Lombardi were quite involved in roster decisions. There's as much evidence of Banner making roster decisions as there was of Heckert doing it, but that didn't stop you from stating it.
I do know they were the ones that signed McSlowly.
Unless Chud and Norv are blind, something was making them trot Wille Slow out there week after week. Something made them play Bsss when clearly his head was somewhere else....
All that aside, Banner and Lombardi are off to a SPECTACULAR start, aren't they? They go out and pick their first head coach and want a mulligan ONE YEAR LATER. Only in Cleveland.
Now, we're supposed to buy in to them being capable of hiring a quality head coach. They just proved they aren't very capable in that area(their opinion not mine). Hiring a guy you have to fire one year later seems deficient to me. Not only that, we're supposed to buy in to them being capable of choosing and drafting a franchise quarterback?
Dark times ahead in the factory of sadness. Thanks Jimmy for making this franchise MORE of a joke than it was before....
i must say...unfortunately...you called it bro. from the beginning of the season you called it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Now, we're supposed to buy in to them being capable of hiring a quality head coach. They just proved they aren't very capable in that area(their opinion not mine). Hiring a guy you have to fire one year later seems deficient to me. Not only that, we're supposed to buy in to them being capable of choosing and drafting a franchise quarterback?
Why do we have to buy into it? It's not like we have to root for the Browns.
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We will be something... and the word "bold" isn't what comes to mind 
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Politely, I think they'll encourage coaches to pursue other opportunities ...
It appears that you were correct... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
Politely, I think they'll encourage coaches to pursue other opportunities ...
It appears that you were correct...
yep... this was addressed in the presser
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Last week I was looking for who was The Facce of the Browns going into the finale.
Now I am more interested in the Faceless of the Browns who felt THIS is our biggest problem and pulled the trigger. The Leak was a no class move.
If we are going to throw Loyalty (YOUR OWN HIRE, for Gawd's sake) to your leader, to individuals, to the organization, football becomes a rougher sport for success. Something far shy of brilliant, this was.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I don't get your logic here DJ... all of our pro bowlers except Gordon, were here before the current FO.. I'm not sure how the fact that we have more PBers than wins fits your theory.. its not like this FO went out and overpaid for a couple pro-bowlers at the expense of other positions just to say we had more PBers... and Gordon, the one they did bring in, appears to have been a steal..
Second, I thought Lombardi had a reputation as a brutal negotiator who refused to pay top players? How do you assemble half a dozen PB players if you aren't willing to pay them?
No, I think we have more PBers than wins for the exact same reason the Chiefs did last year, some combination of coaching and QB play.... Unfortunately, I fear this team is far closer to being blown up now than I do to coming together to see how good it could actually be...
This FO got soundly ridiculed for the TRich trade and it seems to have worked out... they are going to get blasted for his, I just hope it works out as well.. but man it does send a bad sign to current players and potential FAs..
yebat' Putin
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This FO got soundly ridiculed for the TRich trade and it seems to have worked out... they are going to get blasted for his, I just hope it works out as well.. but man it does send a bad sign to current players and potential FAs..
J/C, but its way too soon to close the book on Richardson....I didn't see Richardson as a bust here....last year Trich rushed for nearly a thousand yards and had 11 rushing TD
Richardson also caught 51 passes for 371 yards and another score....he wasn't as bad as many made him out to be.
To say Richardson is a bust based on this year performance with the Colts is unsounded and unfair....he was jettisoned to them mid-season having to learn a whole new playbook, whole new terminology, and trying to get familiar with how his new OL blocks and the blocking scheme in Indy....its way too soon.
If Richardson sucks next year, then its safe to say he is a bust.....however you watch....next year Richardson will rush for 1200 yards and catch 50 more balls out the backfield and go to a Pro Bowl....and what will we get in return? in just our wonderful Browns luck, we will draft another sucky LB like Mingo high who will be terrible.
We gave up on Trich too soon just like we gave up on Chud too soon.....Trich was a second year player...he deserved more time to try and get things on track.....it screamed knee jerk to the whole trade did....Trichy showed enough promise last year that he should have been given more time here.....we just tossed our #4 overall pick away for a pick in the 20's...how does throwing away a #4 pick for a 20 pick "good value"
Trich is young and still has plenty of time to improve....there is no doubt Trich has top talent, its not exactly like any other RB we had this year has really done anything....Trich was a pretty good playmaker for us last year.....i still think its way too soon to close the book on Trich.
Everyone thought Marshawn Lynch was done when they traded him to Seattle and we all see how that worked out....
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ummm.....who brought in Gordon again?
(I wouldn't really expect any of our pro-bowlers to be from 1 offseason from this FO, btw).
#gmstrong
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I think they have set the bar high,for what is acceptable and what isn't.They are swinging for the rafters,so they will have some big strikeouts,but I think these guys will get this team winning where others have failed.No one likes the constant change we have endured over the years,but I'm for getting the right people here,instead of just keeping them for the sake of keeping them.I have my doubts,but I think this team is headed for good times and this next year is going to be very interesting to see.
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The problem with that mindset is the assumption that the "right guy" will automatically be great his first season on the job and that the "wrong guy" will automatically be bad his first season when there is no evidence to suggest that either of those are absolute truths.
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I think that's a really good point.
It goes back to them thinking they are the smartest guys in the room ...and with no credentials to back it up.
And I fear Lombardi is being a cancer behind the scenes. I read that the rift between him and Chud was much worse than what has been reported.
This might be as simple as Haslam and Banner choosing Lombardi over Chud.
The team is in terrible hands.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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That's for them to decide,and we don't know what all went on behind this decision.This wasn't something they just did on the spur of the moment.Chud was never their first choice,and for Banner and Haslam to sit there and admit they made a mistake,is not something you hear from ownership very often.They have their reasons,and I respect that.I'll give them the benefit of doubt and will wait to see how things play out.Who knows,maybe things work out better for Chud elsewhere.
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Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Hopefully Haslam end up in prison before he destroys this team any further.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,820
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,820 |
Quote:
I think that's a really good point.
It goes back to them thinking they are the smartest guys in the room ...and with no credentials to back it up.
And I fear Lombardi is being a cancer behind the scenes. I read that the rift between him and Chud was much worse than what has been reported.
This might be as simple as Haslam and Banner choosing Lombardi over Chud.
The team is in terrible hands.
Time will tell, but I do like the urgency set in place by Haslam. I'd rather them make quick decisions and possibly be wrong once in a while over letting a problem linger a few years.
A few weeks ago you were the guy questioning if Chud was any good.....good call by the way. I can honestly say I never saw this comming, but now that it has happened, I am good with the move.
We didn't improve and Chud kept playing loser players while guys who could help weren't.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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