DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum We will be BOLD.

J/C
These guys didn't just fall off the turnip wagon.They are well aware of the social media networks,and what is being said about them there.
Hell,they probably have some dork on the payroll just to monitor them,I know I would.
They have brought embarrassment upon themselves by their actions.But the way this spineless POS Entertainment Section Reporter presented himself and Ch.19 bugs the hell out of me.
What's with Ch.19,they don't have a sports reporter?

I'll say it again - there always has been a 'double standard around here', and there always will be.

If you take a look at people's feelings on past, current and future regimes, you'll see that there's usually a trend of like-dislike-like, or dislike-like-dislike.

In the end, all of the 'likes' here have been dead wrong, if you ask me. Nothing that's come through here did anything or went on to do anything.

I've taken an open mind with this regime, as I have all of them in the past. I was glad that we got rid of H&H.

But I don't like what I see so far. A lot of posters have been unfair to this regime, and judged them before things unfolded, but it's hard to say that this isn't a bit of a train wreck right now.

I don't care how bad Heckert and Holmgren were...that has no bearing on what I think about the new regime. And right now, I see more bark than bite.

I agree w/almost all of what you said.

I just didn't like you telling me how to post, especially when you got guys like Pit, Dj, and Swish running around here like they are aroused by the current events.

You wish to blame players, coaches and everyone else about a lack of passion. Then get upset when the fans show some?

My, my, my........

Bold...pffft.

I see two wimps who never played football be bold - and a Criminal be bold who had nothing to do with making an NFL team before.

We were told the only way to be successful was to have Stability and Continuity but they had to get there systems in they wanted an attack O and an attack D...their words. They went out n got Chud with Norv and Horton as OC n DC...we played 3 games where a decent QB started included is his leadership provided in the team preparation for the game. We looked sharp and one all 3 even if the third was done without him on the field long due to injury.

Then we had the Weeden n Campbell leadership - 1-12.

They wanted Chud to fire somebody to get the team Motivated??? So fear is the only way these Bold guys can do it. Not from respect...but fear.

So no we got to reboot and bring in Lombardi's choice of McDaniels...his head is so far up BB's butt it ain't funny. So when McDaniel got the job at Denver the first action he took was try to trade for the Pats back up QB Cassell - so it won't surprise me once he's the HC here we will use our first round pick - gosh I hope not the Overall # 4 for Mallet. Yeah predictably bold.

New O new D and all got to learn it. We will be hearing the words AGAIN. Oh by the bye week we can expect the D to get into gear. but the O will take a little longer for all to catch on...and the worst thing yet is that it seems we got that once in 5 year cupcake schedule - stay the course with stability n continuity - Start Hoyer from game #1 have a slew of drafted rookies to help w/depth and a starter or two. Cap room galore to add a FA or two. Instead we boldly do the reboot. Who knows if we will have Mack or Ward ( I think both they both are FA) both making the Pro-Bowl well Ward has to wait for somebody to bow out).

Who will run the D? McD will run the O I'm sure. Will Joe Thomas ask for a trade? Will there be a player mutiny? Best case scenario we are starting yet another 3-5 year PLAN



Needless to say I'm very disappointed.

I am still waiting for Lombardi to bring in Jamarcus Russell.

or Mike Junkin, Clifford Charlton, Tommy Vardell, or Craig Powell.

I could have sworn that the Browns went 11 and 5 and won a playoff game when Lombardi was here, or am I dreaming that?

Btw-----------when was the last time the Browns won a playoff game? Who was in charge of getting players then?

Here is Lombardi's track record when it comes to the draft. It speaks for itself.

1987 to 1996
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

1998 to 2007 with the Raiders
http://www.raiders.com/history/draft-history.html

People can check it out and make up their own minds.

Obviously I'm a bit bitter over the FICKLE MOVE by our Powers to be...Trust them?

That coming from a cut throat business man...lol yeah Otay!

Its a lose lose situation for them cause if Chud and the new regime was that bad...it was they who picked it. Righting a wrong or making a move to bring in a YES MAN???

The big boss wanted some firings to motivate them cause that is hat he would do. Chud was calm and ready to go to Stage II of the Regime.

Listen I've read a lot of reasoning from some dawgs - many putting Chud down cause we don't have a team that finishes.

I'm telling you all right here n now...when you have BACK UP QBs STARTING for you they can sometimes manage the game but what they lack is one characteristic which makes them BACK UPS...They cannot finish games. As the season wore on without Hoyer at the helm the team pretty sensed this but they fought hard and yet game after game we could not finish. Oh there was a hiccup and we beat the Ravens. We got close.

The only firing I wanted was Tabor cause Special teams should not LOSE YOU THAT MANY GAMES. Bengals...two blocked punts, big time game and failure. Pats game inability to recover an onside kick...big time game. Chiefs game the fumble by Bess as the replacement for Benjamin. All 3 we were simply not prepared. So that would have been my firing and thats it.

Usually a HC is only as good as his coordinators. I thought we had two of the best. We were prepared and had our game planning set up. We went into the half ahead or tied in like (guessing 14 of our games) Finish? Yeah obviously we didn't have the guns to finish...none more than a real QB. We didn't have a running game until Baker to overcome the short comings of our Back Up caliber QBs. But it was our depth at DB that hurt us the most on Defense.

Lombardi not helping? Well it was his decision to put OWENS on the IR when it was known he would be back before the seasons end. It was said this was done to force Horton to utilize McFadden more. Owens did heal up and signed with another team and played. Not that he is great but he still was a Vet and new what he was doing! The last 3 games we saw a LOT OF Poyer and Poser...possibly both can amount to something in the future but the fact is they joined our roster mid-season out of our Practice Squad and I think off of the waiver wire.

Dawgs wonder why we were bad at 3rd down efficiency look no further than the depth of your DBs.

Dawgs wonder why we didn't load up with blitzes especially against rookie QBs (Jets come to mind) well if you don't have the DBs for one on one coverage against teams 4-5 WRs you can't blitz. We were at a catch 22.

So when Chud stated that the situation of the team was not that severe...again leaked out by the FO I guess. It didn't mean he was OK with losing. It meant there was no reason for panic...this was to be an evaluation year on what we had...and to build on those weak links from the mega draft picks and from the Vast Cap Room. But we had a good foundation to build on. Move forward and Upgrade the talent...get a QB in addition to having Hoyer on a reboot. All familiar with the O and with the D...I just don't get it. This makes no sense at all most of all I don't like being lied to and treated like a lower class dummy.

I didn't appreciate being lied to when they stated that they made up their mind the last week about hiring Lombardi....when everyone...EVERYONE KNEW about this like 2-3 months earlier! Like us Browns fans are dummies and don't watch Inside the NFL and other shows. As well as reading print on our Browns.

I didn't appreciate being lied to about this new REGIME was all about Stability and Continuity cause they knew that is what has been lacking since 1999....I mean can you believe they stated that and then do this...lol



Well no more HOMER from me. This Regime has a lot to answer for...makes me miss Mangini, Heckert and RANDY...I would love to have those 3 work together then these egotistical liars.

JMHO

EO: I am with you all the way on this. Normally I would be very animated and be all over this fiasco but am so taken aback by all of it that I am really just numb.

This has nothing to do with competency and professionalism and everything to do with power and cronyism. Disgusting to me.

I long for the days of a professional football man who is the Dictator. Wish Paul Brown could come back from the grave and take over the ownership of the team and be the head coach.

Each regime has come in here preaching the same story the results have been the same.

Haslam in front of the media talking about the great fan base is just to much to take. Like pouring alcohol in an open wound. A scam rat facing a federal rap sheet is supposed to taken for his word. I can only imagine what he has said to Chud over the last year when they have met. Slick lies.

So going forward as Norv Turner and Horton take flight. A new coach will come in. It will not be a guy with a legitimate resume as a head coach with success. It will be a hungry guy looking for a shot. Banner will make all decisions.

As much as I dislike this whole picture none of the previous regimes have got it right so this group can not do any worse.

I will sit back and just judge the results. Expectations? None.

Bonefish this is the first regime to fire THEIR GUY...maybe Clark with Palmer...then again these dolts are in good company...Clark the worst FO guy in the history of the NFL.

But essentially Clark was fired to..as Butch had full control. Clarks guy Palmer. Butches guy himself fired at the end of 04. Savage's/Randy guys RAC. Mangini his own guy...fired by Holmgren, Shurmur Holmgrens guy fired by Banner.

This is the first guy chosen by the powers to be to LEAD them and be a star...to fire them.

The thing that will be interesting to me that is...What the players do. Will they just play for the pay check - one will just have to watch Joe Thomas and DQ. Will they believe...TRULY believe in the NEW SYSTEM new COACH. That will be a big key for me...cause that is the difference of 3 years building on what you got...TO A MASSIVE change of roster (Expansion all over again) and a 5 year plan.
JMHO

The players under contract will be good soldiers. They will say the politically correct words in front of the cameras. The guys who are unrestricted free agents will jump ship.

Coaches who have real options will avoid the Browns knowing ownership and management speak with forked tongues.

There is only one way out. They have to score big in the draft. Then they have to win and win often. There is no culture. There is no past. There is nobody to believe. There is no pride in ownership and management. There is only winning.

Kind of funny though isn't it Damon.

The way things have been posed to the fan base, our drafts now will be by a group, not a person. So if and when Lombardi leaves here, the same thing can be said.

It must be pretty cushy to get the label of GM, the paycheck of GM, yet always have a way out of taking the responsibility of a GM.



But then again, you don't have to worry about getting fired after only one year that way!

Bill had final say over everything. Just like Al Davis did when Lombardi was in Oakland.

Okay, so we can't blame Lombardi for those bad picks, right?

If we want to be bold we take our QB at 4, trade our 2nd #1 and whatever else it takes and grab Watkins. Or vice versa...

This is horrible Bro ... this is the worst I've felt since we left .... it really stinks .... what these guys did was so brutal on so many levels ... and then the self serving pres conference where they just lied through there teeth ... BRUTAL ... makes me ashamed to be a Dawg .. and I've never been ashamed ...

and it amazes me that some actually are defending these guys .... its so agenda driven its pitiful ...

U summed it up the best ... we brought in 6 new people .... the owner and his FO ... the coaching staff .... one of those groups has done SQUAT IN FOOTBALL over the last decade (are u kidding me with Lombardi ,... we hired him from the nfl network after about 5 or 6 years OUT OF THE BUSINESS ... are u f'n kiddin me ... ) .... and one of the groups had done quite a bit over the last decade ... the coordinators were TWO OF THE BEST IN FOOTBALL ...

Ya .. lets fire the group that actually has a clue ....

this was so bad ... just so bad ....

The only thing I can figure is that they wanted one of "their" guys no matter what, and whatever happened this year, short of the playoffs, which would have been all but impossible, would not have been enough for them.

For them to say that players were not being developed was ridiculous, and really, a flat out lie. Gordon went from interesting prospect to leading the NFL in yards. (after missing 2 games, no less) Gordon went from a guy with some potential, to Pro Bowler. Haden started shutting down some of the best receivers in the league. I have to wonder if he got hurt and didn't say anything towards the end of the year. (before the fairly serious injury that landed him on the injured list) Skrine became a solid #2 CB ..... and only 1 person I can think of saw that as a possibility. Most though that the front office did a crappy job of finding secondary help. Even Gipson, if not a Pro Bowl caliber player, improved a great deal to the point of being an average NFL FS. (maybe even slightly above with his ability to create turnovers)

Unfortunately, they gave the coaches very little in terms of a QB, and all of the RB we started the year with were either injured, or traded. (or sucked and were cut) The only guy we started the year with, who is on the team today, is Obi.

Banner likes to compare this team to the eagles, and wonders why we didn't make that same kind of jump ...... well, how about Nick Foles and LeSean McCoy, for starters? Imagine this team with those 2 players on it. I think we might have been a 12 win team. Unfortunately, we didn't have those 2 players, or anyone even 1.2 of the caliber of those 2 players. We had Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell, and Willis McGahee. That's a KO for the Eagles personnel department. In no universe anywhere is that even a close fight.

There were also reports that Chud wanted a more traditional FB, and to move Obi back to RB. He was reportedly told no by Lombardi. I have to believe that Chud wasn't crazy about going into some weeks of the season with only 3 or 4 WR either. However, he's not the personnel guy. How long did we ride with just 4 real CB? (Haden, Skrine, Owens, and McFadden) The front office IR's Owens for a minor injury, s that the coaches would be forced to play McFadden, and he made some critical mistakes down the stretch. (though I cannot hold the BS PI call in the Pats game against him) The coaches caught the blame for that, but it was really on the front office. Owens, by the way, was given his release within a couple of weeks, because he was healthy, and the injury was total BS ........ a "we'll show you who's in charge" move by the front office.

Yeah, I think that this front office did about all it could to handcuff the coaching staff this year, then blamed them for all of the shortcomings of the team. That's a pretty damn Mickey Mouse way of running things. We heard Banner say that he wasn't satisfied with the progress of the team from a coaching aspect, despite the injuries ..... but not to blame him on the personnel side, because we had injuries. Way to be a man Joe.

The more I think about this, the more I go back to being mad again. I suppose that's better than them creating apathy ..... but not by much.

In the end, we have no choice but to accept whatever crap they shovel, if we want to remain Browns fans ,....... and I have been one far, far too long to make changes now. However, they are damn lucky that we got to keep the name and colors when Modell screwed us, because I suspect that if this team were the Cleveland Bulldogs, or something similar, with this abysmal track record of clown like results, few fans would care, and would even be paying attention by now. Most fans would have abandoned such a team long ago .... and the team would have had no one to blame but itself.

Lerner made a lot of mistakes, but they were mistakes made, I think, with good intentions. I think that he really wanted to bring a winner to Cleveland, and he tried as best he could. He didn;t know it all, but he (and his father) tried a lot of different ways to build the team, with some pretty respected people. We had Carmen Policy, who was a member of the Niners suring their Super Bowl runs. We had Dwight Clark. Butch Davis was a respected coach. Phil Savage was though to be a real up and coming GM. Even the Fat Walrus was a respected mind in the NFL. Haslam brought in Joe banner, and he was well thought of as far as handling the financial side of things, the question with him being on the personnel side. Then he brought in Lombardi who had been out of the NFL for years. Both moves were (crap) sprinkled with sugar and sold as cookies, but neither move has really paid big dividends yet. They did make a great trade with Trent Richardson. However, they need to mash a HR with that pick to make it a good move. I look at the players who made a big impact this year ....... Gordon, Cameron, Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Mack, Thomas, Taylor, and Bryant, primarily, and most of those guys were already here. Kruger had a solid year, and did a very good job setting the edge .... something we have missed for quite a while. Sheard looks more like a 3-4 OLB than he did a 4-3 DE. However, with all of the draft picks we had, and all of the cap space we had available, how many moves did they make that turned into impact moves this year? Banner said something about having to wait a year or 2 to see how those moves turn out, and in principle I agree .... but that's not how he handled it with his head coach.

In short, Banner wants all of the leeway he refused to give his hand picked, and personally hired, head coach. I see no reason he should get it. He felt that this should be a .500 team this year, well, that's his judgement ...... but if that's true, with extra picks in 3 of the top 4 rounds of the draft coming up, and some $40 million in cap space, and with their "new" hand picked head coach, they sure as hell better win a minimum of 10 games next year. That's my feelings on the matter anyway. I know that some disagree, and that's fine too.

The clock is ticking on banner and that guy that never shows his face, lombardi. They bought themselves some time..........and the clock on that time is now running. Playoffs or fired next year boys.

May as well start all over again. New coach this coming year, REAL management next year. You can only kiss a "I want yes men" owners ass for so long.

Put up or shut up.

J/C

A few points:

The 3 Stooges Comment by the reporter was totally justified

Anyone who says otherwise is just blindly defending this terrible Front Office.

So lets see here:

1. They hired Chud and the concensus between the 3 (and in most NFL circles) is Chud was one the most promising up and coming minds in the NFL...Mixing Norv Turner's O with the flare of the O's he ran at the University of Miami that was something pretty new to the NFL.

2. They trade away the teams top RB in the middle of the season(sure we got a 1st rd pick, but we replaced him with an even worse bum)

3. Chud was forced to play 3 different QB this year and finished the season with the 3rd QB on the stinking depth chart.

4. The defense played well for the most part, sure there were some breakdowns, but this is the 1st year of the defensive system, it takes time to get all the kinks worked out, our Run D still improved a ton and we ranked 10th overall in the NFL which is not bad for a 1st year system with a lot of new players.

5. Norv and Chud produced 2 pro bowlers in Gordon and Cameron...with Gordon leading the league in receiving yards....all while playing 3 different QB's..

What does the Front Office do? They fire him after one season.

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC, MORONIC, STUPID, REATARDED, WHATEVER WORD YOU WANNA USE TO DESCRIBE IT

The National Media is "laughing at us", before they just ignored us, now we are straight up getting laughed at and are the butt end of jokes....the firing of Chud was way more embarrassing then what that reporter said.

I have that sinking feeling in my stomach that Jimmy is a meddler.,...he may be worse of a meddler then Jerry Jones, because at least Jones does "somewhat" understand football...but Jimmy don't have a clue....and Banner is doing nothing but riding Reid's coat tails....I have this sinking feeling my stomach that we "could" be in BIG TIME TROUBLE....but its going to be a few years before we will know for sure....

Hopefully...whoever they hire this time, Haslam and Co can just get out of the guys way and let him do his job without firing him after 1 year......

Agreed.

This "ain't yo daddy's truckstop".

Just because you can build up a truckstop business doesn't mean you can run an nfl team. Put the money up, then get out of the way and let people who have a clue run it. And banner and the no show certainly have failed so far. But, "yes" men only go so far. There's only so much toe sucking they can do.

They are on the clock.

Couldn't agree with U more on ALMOST everything U said ... when I was watching that PC I wanted to punch those two in the face .... at first I'm thinking these two are contradicting each other ... then Banner started contradicting himself and FALT OUT LYING .... that's when my blood started to boil ...

and Jimmy getting visibly upset when asked HARD but FAIR questions .... I mean WTF ... the guys been gone since almost day 1 after he became owner so he could go deal with his FEDERAL THIEVERY CHARGES .... really Jim ... U or SOMEONE U HIRED did the crime ..... I wonder if u really didn't know about if your employees did it because your a ruthless . and they felt they needed to ...

Quote:

---

The only thing I can figure is that they wanted one of "their" guys no matter what, and whatever happened this year, short of the playoffs, which would have been all but impossible, would not have been enough for them.

---

that's about the 1 thing U said I don't agree with U on ... not sure what happened ... my two theories ...

- Jimmy had a hissy fit and knee jerked ... Banner/Lombards figured since the boss was onboard they'd get a mulligan ... and they didn't like what Chud wanted to do personal wise and they just didn't get along ...

- THIS IS THE ONE I BELIEVE .... Banner/Lombards didn't like the fact Chud wouldn't just do whatever they wanted and they painted Jimmy boy a picture of what was going on that just wasn't true ...

One of the reasons I believe that is .... I think the wheels could have been set in stone for this a while back ... peen and vers have both said they saw reports some weeks ago that there was going to be a mutiny .. weather there true or not .. SOMEONE PLANTED THEM ... then U fast forward to after the Pit game ... well DQ and Joe (The offensive and defensive TEAM LEADERS .. so u figure ... they got a pretty good handle on how the team feels .. teams usually also follow there leaders ... ) ..... were FIRMLY BEHIND CHUD and SCOFFED at the idea of Chud being let go .... and the comments by mack about this place being a think tank for bad ideas ..

so were too choose between two stories .... and its clearly obvious witch one of those two scenarios is plausible ... but I regress ... what I really want to know is ...

WHO PLANTED THE MUTINY STORIES????????? ... makes u think ... don't it ...

Crap .... I better shorten this or it will be 8 pages long .. *L* ..


I agree with everything else u said for the most part except the Policy part ... not sure if u were around at the very beginning ... I know Pit was ... so he can tell u this is true ... and I know u were around for at least a decent part of it ...

I SAID FROM DAY 1 WE WOULD FAIL WITH POLICY ... then he brought in Clark and it just SEALED IT ... and I said that the day I saw Policies name on the ownership group ... this is not revisionist history ... the only reason I'm even going into this is because THERES ALOT OF SIMILITIARITIES here ...

- Policy had NOTHING to do with the 9ers first two SB's .... he was there lawyer ... that was it ... THERE WAS NO SALARY CAP when they won there first two .... yet everyone gloms them on to him cause technically he worked for the franchise ..

for there next two super bowls he was more involved ... he was a president but he was the CAP GUY .... and lawyer ... PERIOD .... all personal decisions were made by Walsh and McVie ... the Don was there bean counter ... NOTHING MORE ...

then Walsh stepped down but left McVie behind ... Mcvie stepped down in 94 or 94 I believe ... they won there last SB in 95 with ALL OF WALSH'S AND MCVIES GUYS .... when clark took over McVies spot .. THEY WENT TO HELL ...

Policy and Clark proceeded to kill the niners on the filed with talent (I'll never forget when I heard Policy say after they won the SB they didn't need Ricky waters back and they would replace him easily .... I LMAO when I heard that .... needless to say we all know how that one turned out ... ) ... and they killed them with cap space ...

FACT IS .... they were getting run out of Frisco and got lucky as hell Lerner either fell for his BS or wanted the franchise so bad he was willing to let him in as part of the ownership group ...

and I see lots of similiraties between these two regimes ... banner was more than likely just the cap guy in Phili .... just like the don was .... they were not football guys BUT THOUGHT THEY WERE ....

they both brought in BUM ASS GM'S WITH HISTORIES OF FAILURE ....

oh man ... this really stinks ...

sad part is ... I have to root for these a-holes to succeed besides themselves .. I have very little to no faith they will ... but man ... not even sure they can mess up all the things they have going for them ... I mean .. u talk about your ducks being in a row ... question is .... JUST HOW BLIND ARE THE GUYS WE HAVE DOING THE SHOOTING!!!!!!!!! we know there blind .... we just don't know how blind ..

I suspect Ben Gay and Willie "The Pipe Dream" Green may be available.

Forgive me for not believing something that a scumbag like Warren Sapp says to promote a book.

Unless you think that a subservient really had final say in a matter over his superior.

Quote:

---

This is horrible Bro ... this is the worst I've felt since we left .... it really stinks .... what these guys did was so brutal on so many levels ... and then the self serving pres conference where they just lied through there teeth ... BRUTAL ... makes me ashamed to be a Dawg .. and I've never been ashamed ...

---

This is exactly how I feel.

I've stayed back and out of the discussions on this firing and that press conference. For the most part it's because I've not been sure of how I feel.

I've read every post, even those by dolts that I usually just scroll past, trying to find a logical explanation for both why this all went down the way it did and why I can't put a finger on how I really feel about it.

As you said, eotab did sum it up the best. He put into logical words why it went down. And now your post explains this feeling I haven't been able to explain for myself...

...I'm ashamed that my team is operating in this manner. Like you, I've never felt ashamed of the Browns. I've always been proud to be a Browns fan.

Right now I can't feel that.

And as much as I agree that a media member calling our FO "the Three Stooges" is unprofessional and somewhat embarrassing, to a FO who wanted the HC to fire players mid-season to send a "message of accountability", calling them the Three Stooges in the National Media sends them that same message of accountability in the very same manner that they themselves think is the best way to do it.

And as unprofessional and embarrassing as it may have been, it's their own unprofessional and embarrassing actions that have me feeling ashamed. I have no problem if they feel ashamed over having been called that in the National Media. Maybe it sent them the message of accountability that they so sorely need to learn.