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Quote:
This whole conversation started because I said this:
Quote:
Winning cures everything. You don't want fans to boo you? Then stop sucking.
If Johnny Manziel comes here and looks like Colt McCoy 2.0 then fans will be upset and boo. If he looks like Russel Wilson 2.0 and takes us to the playoffs then fans will cheer. It's a pretty simple formula.
And I stand by that comment. If you get the talent and the team starts winning the fans will be happy. If you draft Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden in the first round and 2 years later both are not on the team and the team sucks, well the fans will be unhappy and boo.
The fans will not be happy until they start winning. So either start drafting better or hope the ones you draft have thick skin.
Seriously? Heck I agreed with that yesterday. 
yebat' Putin
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j/c:
Can we get this thread back to being about Manziel, please?
There are plenty of threads about the FO and the fan base.
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Quote:
j/c:
Can we get this thread back to being about Manziel, please?
There are plenty of threads about the FO and the fan base.
I agree....I felt I needed to go a different direction because it was in support of a statement that did relate.
I like Johnny Footall and Teddy.....I also like Taj who we will see in about 30 minutes...and we could get him with our second 1st round pick....though we might have to trade up a few slots.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Iknow a lot of the "experts" have been down on this QB class of late but its a strong class just not the normal class lol. The #1 QB is a 195 pounds put wow what a terrific pure passer, he has smarts and athleticism but he has a special touch.
Johny Football will be lucky to measure 6 ft and the most exciting player since probably Hershell. I think he is what is most needed by this franchise. That competitiveness and desire to win cant be taught.
I love Taj but he just makes those stupid mistakes that kill your confidence inhim. I think he can be the next Steve McNair but he really needs advanced level coaching to achieve his potential. Funny but I think he is the most pro ready player in this draft.
Carr imho has the most upside of any QB in this draft. He had a horrible game and has fallen out of favor but think of what happened to Brees when we pressured and confused him. It happens to all QBs and i think that bowl game was not the norm but the exception.
The kid from UCF, I see tremendous talent but will need at least 1 year and maybe 2 of just learning same as Carr, I think they teams need to go back to allowing these kids to groom. I see a early 2nd rounder in Bortles not top 10 like some are saying but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Then we have the 2 injured QBs in Murray and Mettlenberger. I would draft Murray in the 4th and put him on IR next year. just allow him to focus on getting healthy and cleaning up some of his mechanics. This is even after I draft a QB in the first or trade with the Pats for a QB.
Back to Manziel for a moment, I think the cult following he has will be seen as both a negative and a positive. The jags need to sell tickets. The Browns front office has to sell the players, fans and media on them not being the morons I think they are. The Texans want that spark at the QB position, *I think they will take Clowney and then trade back into the first for their QB if they cant get a kings ransom for that first.
This draft has a ton of moving parts and it is about to get very interesting.
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Quote:
That competitiveness and desire to win cant be taught
I hate narratives like these. I guarantee guys like Teddy and Blake want to win just as badly as anyone.
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Quote:
Quote:
That competitiveness and desire to win cant be taught
I hate narratives like these. I guarantee guys like Teddy and Blake want to win just as badly as anyone.
Yep. Anyone who is about to be a 1st round pick wants it just as bad as anyone else. Though it is funny to see Dez get ripped about this every weekend while Johnny gets praised every weekend for wearing their hearts on their sleeves.
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You may hate it but it is very true. There are unique people with that special desire and passion to win. These people do not want to lose at anything, EVER!! Even when they win, they are beating themselves up for what they did wrong.
I enjoy competition and I dont like losing but winning was never everything. At the end of the day, win or lose, its just a game. To some that just isnt the way it is. Are you willing to cut off your pinky to get back in there and play? lol thats the type I am talking about and there are a special breed. They arent the best company but you always want them on your side.
Everyone has their own quality. Mine was I cant quit. Even if I tell myself I quit, I still wont. Walk away for a second and I will be right back at it, and it doesnt matter what it is lol.
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So you're basically psycho analyzing. Do you have a masters in psychology? How in the hell do you know what player "wants it more?" Do you personally know these guys? Are you a master of analyzing body language?
No.
You buy into media narratives and hyperbole to promote their product.
I'll use an NBA comparison, is Anderson Varejao a better leader than Tim Duncan? An NFL comparison, is Tim Tebow a better leader than Peyton Manning? If you say yes, that's because you're a "rah rah" guy.
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Derrick Anderson laughing on the side lines would be the far end of the spectrum as an example of guys who clearly don't have that same competitive drive you look for.
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You dont have to be freud to realize that when a guy is willing to take on 2 linebackers head first in order to move the chains, he has that desire. Is he making a business decision and sliding a yard shy or is he throwing his body in there to help his team.
That doesnt have a freaking thing to do with body language. It is having enough knowledge to evaluate what you are seeing. Does the receiver going across the middle short arm it or does he catch the ball without fear of consequence?
I actually pay attention to those things. You apparently do not or you just wanted to be an ass during this conversation. Now I will play Freud and say, you felt threatened during this discussion so you became more aggressive trying to compensate for a small penis.
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OO and btw folks that was a joke, Candy is a cool dude and i was just busting his chops.
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What if a QB takes tons of shots and still throws passes? Oh wait, that's 99% of QBs. What's easier to sell for the media? That a quite guy or a "rah rah" guy is a better leader? I get it it. You like underdog stories. Simple minded dolts buy into them.
I can tell you suffer from little mans inferiority complex evidenced by you needing to reference another mans penis. Rather that or you're just a juvenile ass disguised as an adult. I'm just busting your chops though so it's all good though right? Maybe if I insert a smilie it'll make things better? It's all cool right?
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Dude say what you want, I could care less. Competitive nature is something that you can physically see. Maybe not you, but I think most can. It has nothing to do with the rah rah guy either. Wes Welker is one of the most competitive people in the league and you rarely ever hear any comments from him. Brady isnt a rah rah guy but his competitive nature and desire to win is consistantly on display.
As for Manning, he is the most talented QB in the league and one of the cerebral but that competitive nature and desire to win just doesnt seem to be as great in him as it is in others. Thats my opinion for whatever its worth.
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Maybe what you're seeing with Manning is that he is a bit more humble than the others. Someone doesn't get that good without constantly pushing themselves to improve.
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Wow.... I leave this thread for a bit and come back to talk of penises... 
<><
#gmstrong
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j/c:
I agree w/Mourg on this one. Anyone who has played competitive sports knows that there are players who have a stronger will to win than others. There are players who make other players better. There are players who lift up an entire team. Their attitudes are infectious.
Did any of you notice the difference between how the Browns played when Hoyer was our QB as compared to Weeden?
Anyone ever notice what Ray Lewis brought to Baltimore?
I've seen Peyton Manning cussing his guys out on the sidelines, spit flying from his mouth. There is a well known clip of him arguing w/Jeff Saturday where they were really going at it. Manning demands perfection from his teammates. Do you think Ryan Leaf brought the same intensity and accountability? Did he care as much about winning and losing.
I think those opposing this argument simply don't like Manziel, so they are trying to act like there is nothing to Mourg's claim.
I still like Teddy as my number one qb, but Manziel is number 2 and I think the kid has the ability to be unbelievably great because of his intangibles. I don't want to draft another stiff like Weeden who had great measurables, but nothing upstairs and had the personality of block of wood. This franchise needs energized. Johnny Football can do that for us.
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Quote:
Did any of you notice the difference between how the Browns played when Hoyer was our QB as compared to Weeden?
Yes, and it became much more apparent when Hoyer went down. I believe the majority were totally deflated at that moment...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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It seems to me that Mourg is talking about the "it" factor.
Are you actually disputing there is such a thing?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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This is how I defined "it." Quote:
'It' is nothing more that an excuse to be used when the answer isn't readily available. Players don't have 'it', what they have is a combination of skills that aren't readily apparent and can not be easily explained.
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j/c
I'll say it again. IF Johnny Football can come in here and WAIT until he's accomplished enough to EARN the right to show that "attitude" towards the rest of the team, this fire and calling out other players will be a very positive trait.
However, if he comes in as a rookie without first having accomplished much using that same approach, it could become a cancer.
I have no way of knowing which case will end up happening. But there's certainly two sides of the coin here.
Trying to call out others when you yourself aren't performing to a very high level isn't something the veterans will embrace IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What is the calling out by Manziel you are talking about? Did I miss something? Candy, so you don't believe in the "it" factor? That's surprising considering you have it ..."who can...the candyman can...the candyman can".... Vers post a few above is spot on. If you don't believe "it", there is no convincing you. Everyone wants to win. I'm sure everyone wants to win equally. Some are able to elevate their games and those around them to turn that want and desire into actual wins. Not everyone is able to do that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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The problem is, when 'it', 'special, 'gamer', etc. is the first descriptor, it's usually a bad sign.
I really, really hope we don't take him. There's a high probability it will set this team back another 3-5 years.
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Do you really think that's the first descriptor for Manziel?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Absolutely.
There's the 'it, gamer, special, etc.' tag. Then you usually get 'he extends plays'.
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Who do you like coming out and why?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm pretty skeptical of the names at the top of this list this year.
I really liked Bridgewater at first, but the more I watch of him, the more problems I see. He has a very long wind-up/delivery.
I'd be OK with taking him, but not moving up for him, which would be a requirement.
I see potential in Bortles, but I mostly see a Jacksonville Jaguar.
I'm not a big fan of either, but I'd roll the dice on them before Manziel.
Other than the names at the top, I haven't seen a whole lot of the deeper end of this QB class.
I just don't see Manziel making the NFL transition. I'm not saying he can't, be the odds are far too steep to spend a first rounder on him.
I'd consider him in the late second/third round, maybe.
I'm just praying someone ahead of us takes him.
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What part of his game do you not see transitioning to the NF?
Size? 6'1 210lbs. Drew Brees is 6'0 210lbs, Russell Wilson 5'11 205lbs
Scrambling ability? That should be a plus in today's NFL.
Reading defenses? I watched the bowl game an seen him read the defense over and over again. He was not only reading the blitz but attacked it. Bottomline is the blitz did not rattle him it made him ,ore aggressive. I have not seen a Browns QB attack a blitz since Bernie Kosar. When he read man to man defense that is when he focused on his best receiver Mike Evans. When the defense played zone he did not force the ball down field he took underneath throws to backs and tight ends. I think he knows how to not only read a defense but exploit it.
Intangables? Heisman trophy winner. Plays his best vs the toughest compitition. 2 Games vs Alabama, 2 Bowl games. He is emotional. Makes the players around him better.
Does he have some things to work on and improve? Yes. Sometimes he plays undisciplined. He throws some balls up for grabs which in college you can get away with but not in the NFL.Leaves the pocker to early at times.
Biggest question I have will he be the first player to show up in Berea and last to leave. If he answers that question he is a no brainer.
I personnally do not care about off the field as long as he does not get suspended for drugs. Some of the best players to ever play this game are real jerks off the field.
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Heisman winner might be his biggest downfall. I don't think Heisman winning qb's have all that much success in the NFL. Perhaps I'm wrong?
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So next year teams should stay away from Winston of Florida State? I he was eligible this year he would be the 1st player without a thought.
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Do you really think he would come in here telling people what to do on day one?
I don't
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Check what I wrote. How many Heisman winning qb's have had success in the nfl? Just asking, not saying they all sucked............but I'd like to see how many college qb's that won the heisman actually panned out in the nfl.
Plus, good bad or indifferent, all the people on here have the Browns going for a quarterback this year. Early. Like, 4th pick or maybe even trade the farm for a qb. So, what does winston bring to the possible table next year? Are we going to draft qb's in the first round forever?
Thomas and Mack aren't getting younger. Maybe by the time we have a qb.........our next need will be left tackle, center (IF mack stays), left guard, right guard, cornerback, safety, running back, ILB, OLB............well, that's enough for now.
Seems the Browns are always a draft or 2 away from being all that.
We're kinda like the gov't.: All they need to fix all the problems is more money, and more laws. All the Browns need is a different coach and a draft or 3.
How's that working out for either of them?
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Quote:
How many Heisman winning qb's have had success in the nfl?
Do you think there is a jinx? Other than that I don't see how one Heisman winner relates to another.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Quote:
How many Heisman winning qb's have had success in the nfl?
Do you think there is a jinx? Other than that I don't see how one Heisman winner relates to another.
Is there a jinx? I don't think so. I think it all comes down to "great college qb" does NOT necessarily translate into even "good" nfl qb. Check the list out.
Day of the dawg was trying to make a point.....he failed.
My point is/was "heisman trophy winner" does not translate into "decent" nfl qb.............and if, as most say, we "must" take a qb this year..........why the hell are we even talking about winston in 2 years?????
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I don't think winning the Heisman means he will be a good QB. I used it as an intagables.
Why I feel he will be a good QB is the fact I think he is mobile to keep plays alive. He reads defenses and knows how to attack defenses. He is big enough to be successful in the NFL. And I like his intagables including he was considered the best player for a year in college. Why, because he plays his best against the best compitetion.
The Winston mention was a QB winning the heisman will not be used against him next year that is for sure. Hopefully we will not be intersested in him no matter how talented he is.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
How many Heisman winning qb's have had success in the nfl?
Do you think there is a jinx? Other than that I don't see how one Heisman winner relates to another.
Is there a jinx? I don't think so. I think it all comes down to "great college qb" does NOT necessarily translate into even "good" nfl qb. Check the list out.
Day of the dawg was trying to make a point.....he failed.
My point is/was "heisman trophy winner" does not translate into "decent" nfl qb.............and if, as most say, we "must" take a qb this year..........why the hell are we even talking about winston in 2 years?????
Ok. Cool.
Peyton should have won the Heisman, but didn't.
All I am saying is winning or not winning has nothing to do with how they end up as a pro.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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That's pretty much what I'm saying: winning a heisman does NOT translate to being good in the nfl.
Now I'm off, for the 3rd time, to plow both drives. There's this small part of me that thinks "If I can keep up, we'll be okay".......Yet most of me says "when the wind kicks in, we're screwed."
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Quote:
Do you really think he would come in here telling people what to do on day one?
I don't
Heck Someone Needs To Be A Leader As I See Little Fire From ANYONE On The Sideline!
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Quote:
Quote:
How many Heisman winning qb's have had success in the nfl?
Do you think there is a jinx? Other than that I don't see how one Heisman winner relates to another.
I think it's just the odds. I also think being great in college has different demands than being great in the pros. Preparation, execution, coaching, etc... It' all different.
Tim Tebow is the punching bag of the sports world right now. Everyone remembers him as this horrible NFL quarterback, but how soon we forget that he was dominant in college.
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This thread got dumb.
I wonder how many people actually watch the games? I wonder how many people just read articles and the posts of other people?
Manziel read defenses. He read coverages. He was accurate. He extended plays. He was clutch. He motivated his teammates.
What's this crap about calling players out? He did grab Evans, but look at the rest of the game. He was motivating them all game long. His teammates love him. That was so evident.
I get the feeling a lot of people are making things up w/out really having studied the guy.
I will be ecstatic if we land this guy.
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