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I wish I could get on board with all of the Bridgewater love.. I really do, I just can't for some reason. I've watched him play a number of games and he looks fundamentally sound but nothing jumps out at me and screams, "This kid is special"...
agreed. he is the quality of Andrew Luck. nor is JFB
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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No ones saying Teddy is Luck category.
He's just the "best" of this class..
Manziel is the flashy guy, Bortles is the late climber, every draft has them (VY, Cam, RG3)
But I think it all comes back to Teddy as the guy everyone has been talking about as being good for a good solid time now...
Just depends on what you want.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yes dreamscape but not the Dennis Quaid. Who played the bad guy.
Yep...thanks
David Patrick Kelly
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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hehehe...yeah that's the ticket lets evaluate him while his thumb was so injured he couldn't even hold the football the day before. Lets forget about all his other games against Defenses that bring it and he played great. lol 
Disappointed in you...sometimes you're full of yourself ( I know I know kettle black thingy) but usually you make some good points. This was a hatchet job 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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just to add to the QB thread. this move would make complete sense and be a true worst-case scenario for the Browns (removing a QB from the draft ahead of them): Quote:
Sam Bradford, Rams: Count this situation as one of the offseason’s great mysteries. Bradford was on pace for his best season as a pro in 2013 before tearing his ACL. Now, with Bradford headed into Year 5 of a six-year contract, the Rams have to make a call on his future.
Two key factors at play here: 1. Bradford is due more than $14 million in base salary next season, and the Rams could save $10.4 million by cutting him (with about $7 million in dead money); 2. The Rams hold two first-round picks, including No. 2 overall, in a draft that boasts several potential No. 1 QBs.
The signs currently point to St. Louis giving Bradford at least one more season at the helm. That may change in the coming weeks.
http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/05/salary-cap-cuts-sam-bradford-julius-peppers/
I am not a believer in Bradford. I think he is a below average QB and will remain a below average QB. The Rams would be smart to go with whoever drops of Bridgewater or Manziel IMO. Of course, that would be terrible for our team, so I hope they give him a year like the writer suggests.
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No ones saying Teddy is Luck category.
He's just the "best" of this class..
Manziel is the flashy guy, Bortles is the late climber, every draft has them (VY, Cam, RG3)
But I think it all comes back to Teddy as the guy everyone has been talking about as being good for a good solid time now...
Just depends on what you want.
If he's not elite where would you rank him in comparison to the rest of the QB's in the NFL?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I'd put him in a tier below guys like Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kapernick.
But above guys like Locker, Bradford, Tannehill.
And that's without him playing a down in the NFL.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If he's not elite where would you rank him in comparison to the rest of the QB's in the NFL?
Isn't that somewhat of an unknown question?
You can look at QB's who were rated very highly who simply never did anything of value in the NFL and look at others that were undervalued and did great.
There's no stead fast rule as to where or how a QB will rank in the NFL until they play in the NFL IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
No ones saying Teddy is Luck category.
He's just the "best" of this class..
Manziel is the flashy guy, Bortles is the late climber, every draft has them (VY, Cam, RG3)
But I think it all comes back to Teddy as the guy everyone has been talking about as being good for a good solid time now...
Just depends on what you want.
If he's not elite where would you rank him in comparison to the rest of the QB's in the NFL?
As a few guys have already said it's really impossible to do that. Too many factors. BUT we can grade him compared to when the other QB were prospects. As a passer I think Teddy is the 2nd best QB since Manning, putting him right behind Luck. He's just that advanced mentally.
Some worry about his frame which I can't fault. So it really depends on opinion. Does he drop in your own rankings because of his size while others rise(ex. RG3's mobility). I think he's a better prospect than Cam, Bradford, Stafford and Ryan. I could understand why some would compare his prospects to RG3 though.
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Honestly, I'm shocked people have him ranked so high...
I can see him possibly developing into a decent QB. Personally, I see him as a 2nd round pick. He may be mentally advanced but he needs a lot of work with his drops, his throwing motion, and consistency.
I don't think there is a QB worth truly taking in the high first round of this draft. The more I read what people are writing about the different QB's... the more it scares me to draft a QB in this year's draft who we plan to be a starting QB in 2015.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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2015?
You honestly think they're ganna take a guy #4 or even higher and not start him right away?
If we get one of the top 3 I guarantee they will start day one. No reason in todays NFL not to..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I'd put him in a tier below guys like Luck, RG3, Wilson, Kapernick.
But above guys like Locker, Bradford, Tannehill.
And that's without him playing a down in the NFL.
so.. you've got me confused. Last Year..
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating
Luck was rated 18th best QB in the NFL
RG3 22nd best QB in the NFL
Wilson 7th best QB in the NFL
Bradford 11th best QB in the NFL
Locker- didn't even qualify in the top 37 because he didn't meet the mins. he would have been the 19th best QB
Tanny 24th best QB in the NFL
Kapernick 10th best QB in the NFL
Brandon Weeden was 34 and Campbell was 30th.
If he doesn't even compare to Luck with Luck being average... why would we take a shot on Teddy B or any other QB in this draft?
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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2015?
You honestly think they're ganna take a guy #4 or even higher and not start him right away?
If we get one of the top 3 I guarantee they will start day one. No reason in todays NFL not to..
nope I'd take a 2nd round QB and let him sit behind Hoyer for a year.
there are no high quality QB's in this year's draft. There are a bunch slightly above average to way below average.
IMO
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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If he doesn't even compare to Luck with Luck being average... why would we take a shot on Teddy B or any other QB in this draft?
lol, because you're comparing everyone to your QB Rating list and using that as the sole basis for how good these guys are. Now it's a decent tool in the discussion. But, heck. You're saying Josh McCown is the third best QB in the NFL last year and Eli the 35th..........
Nick Foles is a better player than Peyton, Aaron Rogers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, etc. too? (And I like Foles, but I'd trade Foles for Luck in a heart beat).
Now, I'll tell you what, going by this list, if I'm Cincinnati, let's trade Dalton for Luck, straight up. I mean, he's the better QB, right? Come on...............
By my eye test, Andrew Luck is a damn good QB, he'll be one of the best for awhile. Now if Bridgewater is a little below that, great. IMO a very select few players compare to Andrew Luck, and Andrew Luck is nowhere near average. I'd still give 3 1sts and 2 2nds for Andrew Luck. Bridgewater, nope. But at this point, he's the only one of the three I'd use our number 4 pick on
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 02/05/14 06:27 PM.
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hehehe...yeah that's the ticket lets evaluate him while his thumb was so injured he couldn't even hold the football the day before. Lets forget about all his other games against Defenses that bring it and he played great. lol
Disappointed in you...sometimes you're full of yourself ( I know I know kettle black thingy) but usually you make some good points. This was a hatchet job
I guess you missed my follow up post where I acknowledged that I didn't know about that when other posters pointed it out 
#gmstrong
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Sit behind Hoyer and learn what? We don't entirely know what we have in Hoyer!
Draft a guy planning for him to win the job and start.
No more could be, should be or he might develop in a few years.
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Great, another stat boy. 
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The fact that you refered to Luck as being "average" made me assume you we're being sarcastic with using ratings...
I hope.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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2015?
You honestly think they're ganna take a guy #4 or even higher and not start him right away?
If we get one of the top 3 I guarantee they will start day one. No reason in todays NFL not to..
nope I'd take a 2nd round QB and let him sit behind Hoyer for a year.
there are no high quality QB's in this year's draft. There are a bunch slightly above average to way below average.
IMO
So if the guys going high are only slightly above average..
Then the guy you take in the 2nd round is obviously below average..
Good plan..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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2015?
You honestly think they're ganna take a guy #4 or even higher and not start him right away?
If we get one of the top 3 I guarantee they will start day one. No reason in todays NFL not to..
I wouldn't take him at 4 I'd take him in the second round. I don't think he has the talent to be a true first round QB.
imo the QB class this year kinda sucks.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Sit behind Hoyer and learn what? We don't entirely know what we have in Hoyer!
Draft a guy planning for him to win the job and start.
No more could be, should be or he might develop in a few years.
Learn for the QB/OC coach how to play in this offense, learn the calls, learn how to train and develop into a QB in the NFL.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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2015?
You honestly think they're ganna take a guy #4 or even higher and not start him right away?
If we get one of the top 3 I guarantee they will start day one. No reason in todays NFL not to..
I wouldn't take him at 4 I'd take him in the second round. I don't think he has the talent to be a true first round QB.
imo the QB class this year kinda sucks.
So again.
You want to draft a sucky QB in the 2nd round.
Wonderful.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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JC: I'm watching ESPN right now, and Kiper has Manziel going 1, Robinson 2, Clowney 3, Bridgewater 4, Watkins 5.
McShay says: 1) Clowney 2) Robinson 3) Bridgewater 4) Bortles 5) Manziel. McSay says Broyles might go 3 though.
Man, if these guys were correct and we could get our hands on Bridgewater that would be great. What surprised me was all the good things that McShay was saying about Bortles. I just don't see it. He doesn't look particularly accurate, nowhere near Manziel or Bridgewater, definitely not Bridgewater.
Anyway, I was surprised. I know these guys aren't real managers just "analysts" but Mel Kiper explained that they talk to NFL executives and try to get a consensus on these guys. May be these guys are just trying to create something to talk about, but if Teddy Bridgewater landed to us at the 4th pick, that would be the best thing that could ever happen IMO. Accurate, intelligent, a little thin (but that type of thing is easier to fix than decision making/accuracy IMO)
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I can't see STL staying at 2.
Someone will give them something to move down a small ways..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Bridgewater is the best of this class IMO. I don't see how Houston takes anyone else. I will hold out hope these guys are correct, but I don't see it.
Bortles is amazing under pressure. He is the best guy in this class at standing and delivering the ball despite guys getting into his face. He has good pocket-mobility as well, which helps. His weakness is that he has bad footwork when throwing and a bit of a hitch in his delivery. That is why his accuracy is not as good as the other guys (especially in a clean-pocket environment). The other concern would be that UCF didn't have the back-shoulder throws or zone-busting crossing patterns that require a throw to a spot rather than a WR. So, it is a complete unknown if he can adjust to that style, which is a necessity in the NFL.
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Quote:
Quote:
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2015?
You honestly think they're ganna take a guy #4 or even higher and not start him right away?
If we get one of the top 3 I guarantee they will start day one. No reason in todays NFL not to..
nope I'd take a 2nd round QB and let him sit behind Hoyer for a year.
there are no high quality QB's in this year's draft. Tfere are a bunch slightly above average to way below average.
IMO
So if the guys going high are only slightly above average..
Then the guy you take in the 2nd round is obviously below average..
Good plan..
and that is why we are perennial top draft pickers. Draft a QB in the first round, let him get destroyed... rinse and repeat. Welcome to Cleveland Browns football.
I wouldn't draft a QB in this class if the value wasn't there. *They should all be drafted bottom of the first or top of the second round*
Manziel is screaming up the draft boards and now considered by a lot of people the #1 QB to be taken... that should tell you all you need to know about this QB draft class.
I'd run with Hoyer/FA/trade for a year and pick up a QB next year.
our team is a long way from being a great team. (depending on FA acquisitions/losses.) We have too many holes at
RB/WR/LB/G(2)/QB/FB/CB
if Mack and Ward leave... we have two more Pro Bowlers to find and we still have a lot of depth to fill
that breaks down to 9 positions that we would need to fill with NFL type starters.
If we switch our D around to a 4-3 and keep Mack and Ward we would probably need less than 9 (maybe as little as 7).
not going to happen in one year.
Last edited by superbowldogg; 02/06/14 12:47 PM.
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I'd trade them our second 1 if that means Bridgewater. That's about it though. Otherwise, I'd stand pat and take either Sammy Watkins or John Football. He's the only QB in the draft I feel comfortable calling a franchise QB. Runs a pro-style offense, I've seen him call plays at the line of scrimmage, and he looks like he can read a defense. Definitely pro-accuracy also. No QB is perfect, and he might seem "boring", but that's easily the most important position on the team, and I prefer him over the rookies from last year and definitely over Tannehill as well. Probably not as high as RG3 and definitely not as high as Luck. But RG3 is a different player and I was higher on Luck than any QB since I started following Browns' drafts, and I can remember being very high on Eli, Big Ben, and Stafford).
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Yes. How dare an athletic QB who played in the toughest conference and excelled be near the top of the NFL draft! Balderdash!
You don't like these QBs? Cool. Who ya ganna take next year? When's your pick ganna be? Oh, you don't know? Good plan going forward.
You take someone this year. If they don't pan out. You take someone else. I don't know why people think putting off the most important position in the nfl is a good idea.
This team isn't bad. They were Average QB play last year away from a playoff spot.
You can piint out all our holes. But there's only one hole that matters. Qb. Until that's filled you won't win anything.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Learn for the QB/OC coach how to play in this offense, learn the calls, learn how to train and develop into a QB in the NFL.
But we have an entirely new HC and OC. Both Hoyer and the rookie will have to learn all of the exact same things you listed.
I say do it the old fashioned way. Let both learn and practice. The best man starts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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OK QB gurus .......
Given that Manziel is only 5;11" (maybe), the concerns most have for shot QBs exist with him as they do with others.
One of the biggest problems for most young QBs is pressure right up the middle. They struggle to then find lanes to throw through. Too many young QBs run around in a helter skelter manner when they are pressured quickly and heavily.
How is Manziel at handling that pressure right up the middle? How does he do when the defense defense gets right in his face? Does he immediately break to run, or does he hang in the pocket to find a receiver? Is he strictly a roll out guy, or can he do as Brees and Wilson, 2 of the best short QBs do, and slide to find throwing lanes and see the field?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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if Mack and Ward leave... we have two more Pro Bowlers to find and we still have a lot of depth to fill
that breaks down to 9 positions that we would need to fill with NFL type starters.
9 positions we need to fill to do what? To win 8 games? To make the playoffs? To make a playoff run? To dominate the league and win the super bowl by 5 touchdowns?
I agree with the poster after you, if Pettine is any good and gets more out of the team we have.. and if we fill 4 or 5 spots this year, that means we are an 8 win team next year.. that doesn't get us Winston or any other stud QB unless at that point you are willing to give away that draft and the next to move up. There is no reason we can't take a QB at #4 and still fill a good 4 or 5 positions this year through our other 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks and FA.... if the QB doesn't pan out, you are really one spot short of where you were before and that spot is still QB, so it hasn't changed.
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Ok,, I'm confused here, I've read that he's anywhere from 5'8" to 6'1" https://www.google.com/#q=johnny+manzielWhich is it, which is accurate. Same debate took place with RGIII a couple of years ago. in fact, he made a big joke out it back then. Seems to be that people that want his stock to drop insist he's shorter, those that want his stock to rise, say he's taller.. Which is accurate?
#GMSTRONG
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Which is accurate?
We don't know yet. We will find out for sure at the combine.
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Which is accurate?
We don't know yet. We will find out for sure at the combine.
Oh hell, yeah that's right. That's when we found out about RGIII.. Thanks
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Yes. How dare an athletic QB who played in the toughest conference and excelled be near the top of the NFL draft! Balderdash!
I don't think he is ready to be a NFL QB this year. Many QB's are broken before they are properly trained to be a QB in the NFL and they wash out
You don't like these QBs? Cool. Who ya ganna take next year? When's your pick ganna be? Oh, you don't know? Good plan going forward. No Clue... just like I had no clue who we were going to take this year last year. Let the cream rise to the top
You take someone this year. If they don't pan out. You take someone else. I don't know why people think putting off the most important position in the nfl is a good idea. cause that has worked in the past. We've drafted Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, and Brandon Weeden in the first. All three were broken before we could train them.
This team isn't bad. They were Average QB play last year away from a playoff spot.
ok
You can piint out all our holes. But there's only one hole that matters. Qb. Until that's filled you won't win anything.
We've tried that multiple times. Throwing a QB in the fire before they are ready... only breaks them especially with as many coaching changes we have had. see Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, and Brandon Weeden, Colt McCoy, and Charlie Frye. The ones that have been successful were a QB away from having a great team and the others wait for their chance.
Here is a list and information of the top 37 QB's in the NFL that are playing today: this took me over an hour to type out with accurate info.
1. Peyton Manning- first round pick first pick started right away The colts went 3-13.
2. Drew Breese 2nd round pick
3. Stafford first round pick first pick started right away after beating out Culpepper. They planned on him sitting but Culpepper sucked
4. Phillip Rivers Drafted first round pick. Didn't play until 2006 after being drafted in 04
5. Matt Ryan first round pick- started right away.
6. Tom Brady 6th round pick
7. Andy Dalton 2nd round pick
8. Carson Palmer first round pick did not play rookie season
9. Ben Rothlesberger first round pick with amazing talent around him. He was the 3rd string QB his rookie season. Started due to injury.
10. Tanney first round pick started right away
11. Flacco first round pick only started because of injury to Boller. They planned on sitting him for the year.
12 Romo undrafted
13. Luck first pick
14. Eli Manning first pick. Started 7 games rookie season.
15. Cam Newton fist pick in the draft doing well.
16.Wilson 3rd round pick.
17. Alex Smith first round pick started right away and was terrible. Resurected his career after many years
18. Henne 2008 2nd round pick
19. RG3 first round pick… started right away. Lots of questions with him and durability
20 Kapernick 2nd round pick
21. Geno Smith 2nd round pick
22. Nick Foles 6th round pick on 07
23 Jay Cutler first round selected started 5 games in 06 traded to the bears in 09
24. Mike Glennon drafted in the 3rd round in 2013.
25. Aaron Rodgers first round pick in 05 didn't become a starter till 08
26. Fitzpatrick drafted 7th round in 2005 he got his break in Cincy after being in the league for 4 years
27. Schaub 3rd round draft pick didn't play much till 2007 he was drafted in 2004
28. Sam Bradford first round pick… started right away
29 Ej Mannuel started week one first round pick
30. Brandon Weeden first round pick started right away
31. Christian Ponder first round pick started pretty much right away played 11 of 16 games.
32. Mike Vick not worth talking about given his jail time and foles is starting
33. Josh Freeman first round pick started pretty much right away played 10 of 16 games.
34 Jake Locker first round pick started right away
35. Blaine Gabbert first round pick started right away
36. Geno Smith 2nd rounc pick
37. Matt Flynn 7th round pick
so the Qb's that were planning on being starting QB's that are good are 7. 2 mannings, luck, ryan, RG3, Bradford Newton
the rest of the good first round picks who were supposed to be brought along slow but started at some point in their rookie season because of injury/the incumbent sucked.
Rothlisburger
Stafford
Flacco
Eli Manning
Cutler
First round QB draft picks taken since 1998:
I might have missed one... I tried my best.
98-2 - only manning was good
99 5- 2 were good McNabb Culpeper- couch was decent in my book
00- 1 Pennington- pretty much a bust
01- 1 Mike Vick- who knows how to rate this pick
02- 3- all three were busts (harrington, carr, Ramsey)
03- 4 taken Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman,
04. 4 taken Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers JP Lossman Ben Roethlisberger
05 3 taken Jason Campbell Aaron Rodgers Alex Smith
06- 3 taken Vince Young, Matt Leinhart, Jay Cutler,
07 - 2 taken Jamarcus Russel Brady Quinn
08- 2 taken Matt Ryan Joe Flacco,
09 - 3 taken stafford mark sanchez Josh Freeman
10- 2 taken Sam Bradford Tim Tebow
11 4 taken Cam Newton Jake Locker Blaine Gabbert Christian Ponder
12 4 taken Andew Luck RG3 Ryan Tannehill Bradon Weeden
13 1 taken Ej Mannuel
If my math is correct 41 qb's were taken in the first round...
7 made it/still starting... (4 not named Manning) when the started opening day and were drafted in the first round. However, 4 are too soon to tell how well they will actually do. (RG3, Luck, Newton, Bradford) Realistically 2 rg3 and Bradford.
5 were forced to start because of injury or because the incumbent was terrible.
the rest were drafted later than the first round or did not start their rookie season.
12 (if my math is correct) were drafted in the first round since 1998 that are still playing in the NFL as a starting QB.
So yes... I'm in favor of letting the QB sit especially since there is no unquestioned QB first round pick int he NFL.
Last edited by superbowldogg; 02/06/14 03:33 PM.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229 |
Quote:
Great, another stat boy.
yep.
numbers don't lie... emotions do.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
So we can't draft a QB in the 1st because we've had ones fail before?
So we also can't draft one in the 3rd, RB, WR or TE in the first
Can't draft D Lineman in the first either.. or OLBs or DEs.
Wow. We really can't draft anyone anywhere. Based on your logic.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
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Wow. We really can't draft anyone anywhere. Based on your logic.
Woah woah woah, we can take a Left Tackle, Cornerback, and a Center. That's what we can take.........
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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