DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McDaniels. Why?

I have seen some posters say that they like the idea of hiring Josh McDaniels. I have to ask ........ why?

He looked great as offensive coordinator in New England. Who wouldn't?

He was the offensive coordinator for the Patriots from 2006 to 2008. In that time frame, the Pats were 6, 1, and 8 in points scored. Impressive. In 3 years before McDaniels, they were 7, 10, and 4 in points scored. Did he build ... or maintain the offense in New England? Did he build a QB, or did he take advantage of the QB already in place? By the way, in 2005, the year before McDaniels showed up, there was no offensive coordinator.

I will give him credit for the year in which Cassel played. He did do a nice job managing Cassel. I do think that year was the year that got him his big break with the Broncos.

After McDaniels left New England, the well piled machine continued on, with the offensive scoring ranking 6, 1, 3, 1, and 3 since he left and returned.

Was he an impact coach with New England, or did he ride along on Belichick's coattails?

The Broncos obviously felt that he was the difference maker, as they hired him to be theirhead coach. With the Broncos, McDaniels lasted a year and a half before being fired. . During his tenure, the Broncos ranked 19th and 20th in points. He forced out an excellent DC in Mike Nolan, because he could not get along with him in any way, shape, or form. The Denver defense, under Nolan, was 7th in yards allowed, and 12th in points. They plummeted to 32nd in total defense, and in points allowed. That is on McDaniels head. He forced Nolan out.

He also had issues with his players. There were reports of some locker room revolts in his time in Denver. He then drafted Tim Tebow to be his answer at QB. This was a national joke. Every network covering the draft wondered what the hell he was thinking, taking Tebow that high. Well, we saw how that turned out.

After he left the Broncos, he ran back to the safe harbor of New England, but then got another opportunity as OC in St Louis. The year prior to his arrival, the Rams offense was 26th in points scored and yards. In McDaniels one season, they dropped to 32 in points scored, and 31 in offensive yards. The following year they returned to 25 in points and 23 in yards. It should be mentioned that they did lose Bradford for 6 games to injury in his season in St Louis. However, in his 10 games under McDaniels, Bradford threw only 6 TD and had 6 INT. In the year before McDaniels he had 18 TD and 15 INT (as a rookie, under Shurmur) and in 2012 he threw 21 TD and had 13 INT. It sure appears that his play suffered under McDanials.

After being fired by the Rams, he returned, again, to the Pats, and reintegrated into the machine.

He has definitely been a force working under Belichick, however the team does not appear to have suffered in his absence. He seems to be more a cog, than a major contributor. It should be noted that Brian Daboll also returned to the Pats. I don't hear anyone screaming for him to come home to be the head coach.

Anyway, given his track record, I have to ask why we would want him for our head coach. He is a very competent assistant under Belichick, but he has struggled elsewhere. He has not really had any success outside of the shadow of the Patriots umbrella. In fact, his performance away from the safety of "home" could be considered a failure.

So, given that this team will need a strong head coach, and one with an ability to develop a young QB, is this really the best choice? Sure he should be more of a head coach than an assistant, and the grunt work of developing the youngster would fall mainly to an assistant coach, but he will need to be a guiding force for his assistants, setting the agenda, and establishing the criteria and schedule for developing the youngster. Is this an area of strength for him? If so, why?

I ask these questions not to be contrary, but because if we truly need a head coach who can lead players, improve performance, and develop a young QB, I see little in his time in the NFL that would indicate that this falls within his ability.

Those who disagree, and who want McDaniels here, please tell me where you think I am going wrong.

thank you for pointing this out... I didn't really know a lot about him... given our track record in the FO... I'm sure he will be their first choice.

All of the stats aside, because so many things go into those... McDaniels scares the crap out of me simply because of what happened in Denver... being a HC requires an entirely different skill set than being an OC.. and I'm afraid he doesn't have that skill set.. Belichick does and he rode his coattails.. heck I think I could be the OC coordinator in New England and get them into the top 10 in scoring and get them in the playoffs... Give me Tom Brady and Bill Belichick to monitor everything I do....

The Belichick arm of the Parcell's tree seems to have stopped producing fruit.... have any of the coordinators that have come from it had any success?

If we end up hiring him, I'd love to fire out what happened in that first year in Denver. They started out so good, and then everything came crashing down...

Was it simply the league catching up to him? Or were there other factors?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81...tment-to-change

Click on the link to know why. Lombo thinks he's the next Bellichick, that's why.

Yep. He scares the crap outa me too. I don't want him.

But if we DO get him I can only hope he's learned from his mistakes.

And Django, its been obvious Lombardi likes him. Thread is about why any Dawgtalkers like him.

JM is a joke and will fit in nicely with the three headed monster we have now... Shemp.

He should do wonders for the moral in the locker room, given his track record

I don't get it. If the powers that be wasn't happy with Chud's progress in one single year and etc, then why would they be interested in Josh judging by what he did during his stay at Denver?

I mean I heard players in Denver didn't support him and such. The team declined. Heck there is evidence to support that there were issues between relationship with McDaniels and his coordinators and etc. He clearly has no issue taking extremely questionable prospects high in the draft, of course Tim Tebow being a prime example.

Why is this dude even in the talks? The mix? IMO, he is perfect where he's at... coordinator position and he handles that little slice of the pie, instead of handling ALL of the pie. As much gossip is about Josh being the frontrunner, it's scary to a person like me.

not sure why anyone would ... I know why Lombards does ... cause he's clueless .... not sure why anyone else would be ...

the only thing I can see he did correctly was get rid of Cutler ... then Marshall made them get rid of him .... but after Marshall did about 4 unthinkable things they basically gave him away ... witch they had to after Marshall forced there hands ... and that's why I HATE STATS Y-TOWN ... yes ... there O stats went way way down .... well they went way way down cause McDaniels doing the things the patriot way (witch is the right way) got rid of Cutler ... as much as I think Cutler is way over rated and makes to many dumb decisions .. theres a reason why teams drool over him ... so when u get rid of him WITH NO ONE BEHIND HIM your O is going to suffer big time ....

and when we hire this new person ... if its Mcdaniels all were going to hear about is how great he is at developing young QB's ... well that's flawed logic for two reasons

- I would like the DUMB ASSES (I no longer wish to insult the real Moe, Curly and Larry by reffering to our FO as the 3 stooges so I have created a name just for them ... it will be shortened to DA's from here on out) to please tell me the young QB that he developed .... just curious ... Brady was developed by Wies .... was it Tebow ... bwaahaaaa ... (and tebow shows one of the biggest flaws between Billicheck and his assistants .. the ABILITY TO EVALUATE TALENT!!!! .... no one ever seems to mention that part of Billicheck) .... was it Bradford .... naaaa ... wasn't him ... then was it ... ummm ... hmmmm ...

- Turner has a pretty dam good track record with MULTIPLE QB'S ... not sure if he developed them but he certainly has had MULTIPLE PRODUCTIVE QB'S .... and I do believe he was a major part of Aikman's development but I'm not sure ...

but no worries Y ... the DA's asked me to have FAITH and who am I to question them based on there TRACK RECORDS ....

and there are many on here that still believe in them so they will let us know why this will be OK ... after all they had the BALLS to admit there mistake ....

FAITH and BALLS BROTHER .... FAITH AND BALLS ... that's all we need ... SCREW COMPETENT PEOPLE ... its all about the FAITH and BALLS!!!!!

I can only hope that the Front runner talk is just due to the Lombardi/McDaniels connection and that Haslem and Banner see it differently than Lombardi. I can only hope.

It's obviously the relationship that is getting him this look...

What about the Patriots offense this year differs from any other Brady season (save for 2007)?

They don't run the ball as well as they want, and they throw a ton of passes. They have to make up for a mediocre defense, and they are clutch in the final 5-10 minutes of a game. I don't really think that's McDaniels doing, it's pretty much Brady/Belichick....

This is a ballsy move if you ask me. I mean if you're this regime, and you have already whiffed once on a move, and now you are hinging your job security on Josh McDaniels? If this fails, you can pretty much kiss it goodbye. What are the odds on this working out?

Like I keep saying, we need a miracle to happen to us at the QB spot. Good luck.

J/C

I'll go on record and say I like McDaniels. I thought he got an extremely raw deal in Denver with Malcontents like Marshall and Cutler. They had no pass rush before Von Miller and they are only as good as they are now because of Manning. They had Orton at QB with a very poor offense and defensive roster.

Honestly his biggest mistake without question is Tim Tebow. Lot's of teams were in love with Tebow though, even after he was a confirmed scrub NFL QB. He's young, he's been groomed the right way and he went somewhere where he made his mistakes.

So let's see. First HC Job rubs people the wrong way (Tebow), get's fired, goes somewhere else, then maybe gets his next HC job.

Bill Belicheck-

Cleveland - Rubs people the wrong way with Bernie
Jets - goes somewhere else
New England - gets next HC job



I'm not saying he's the next Belicheck, but to act like he doesn't have the pedigree is asinine.

The short answer is, I don't know why?

J/c
Here's something I've been wondering and am way too lazy to look it up.
Besides Dimitrof (Sp.) in Atlanta who has left the Patriots and went on to be successful elsewhere?
That org.has been picked over for years,and I can't think of anyone that has become successful.
I believe this to be buyer beware.

I know that you hate stats, but stats can have use as an analytical tool, especially over an extended period of time.

The Pats did not suffer when he left, nor did they seem to gain an advantage when he returned to the team.

The Broncos did not improve when McDaniels took over in Denver. The defense did improve, however, IIRC, the DC was almost forced upon McDaniels, and he didn't make a stink at first.The defense was the area that significantly improved in Denver. They allowed 448 points in Shanahan's last year in Denver, and only 324 in Nolan's season as DC. Once McDanialts forced out Nolan, they went back to allowing 471 points the following year. Points scored and allowed is a stat, but a vitally important one.

I like to look at trends when it comes to coaches. If they have some time at a position, how did their team do over his tenure? What were the trends? Did he gets his preferred QB? If so, did the team show improvement on offense, and scoring in particular. (which is the more important thing on the offensive side of the ball) In all cases outside of NE, McDaniels appears to have driven performance down.

As far as which QB McDaniels has developed ..... I would guess maybe Cassell would be the best example? He did have a better year than most expected when Brady was hurt. That would really be it in my eyes though. He drove down Bradford's performance in St Louis, and did nothing in Denver, even with his hand picked QB.

Definitely a major concern in my eyes.

guys, heres a take from a few different guys on McDaniels:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/3037/daily-brownies-a-harsh-take-on-mcdaniels

Daily Brownies: A harsh take on McDaniels

It’s not easy to find a lot of positives being written about the Cleveland Browns these days. A team that has largely been dysfunctional over the years gives the impression that it remains dysfunctional, even with a new owner and new front office.

Jimmy Haslam might bristle at the term “same old Browns,” and it’s well that he does. But at this point that’s where the team -- and more importantly -- the fans are.

And based on the local and national reaction, those writing about the team are really in that “same old, same old” spot.

Heading through the Daily Brownies, we start with a serious condemnation of the first person the Browns will interview, Josh McDaniels of New England.

Mike Silver of the NFL Network and NFL.com says this about the Browns interviewing McDaniels: “ ... when I read reports that former Denver Broncos coach Josh McDaniels might be the leading candidate to fill the Cleveland Browns opening, I feel like someone has just taken a tire iron to my skull.” Silver has legitimate reasons for that strong feeling, and though his takes on Hue Jackson and Jim Caldwell might be questioned, he supports his position on McDaniels.

The Boston Globe’s Ben Volin, meanwhile, says McDaniels should think long and hard before even considering taking the job.

As for the possible hiring of Auburn’s Gus Malzahn -- a rumor that smells a lot like it will lead to a new contract and raise for Malzahn -- CBSSports.com’s College Insider Jeremy Fowler says this: “You could argue that Auburn is a better job than Cleveland, where a coach is fired for not making a triple pumpkin spice latte out of a plastic Mr. Coffee maker worth of quarterbacks.”

The Plain Dealer’s Bud Shaw was at the news conference where Haslam and Joe Banner explained their thinking. He wasn’t buying it. Shaw wrote: “Even as he continues to claim ignorance of the rebate scam allegedly operating on his watch at Pilot Flying J, he hopes you understand he's on the job and attending to the details required to turn the Browns into a winner. When he says he gets why we might be skeptical of yet another Browns’ regime making yet another coaching change, he doesn’t know the half of it.”

Tony Grossi of ESPN-Cleveland.com also was at the news conference, and after watching the tape he came up with several more good questions that could have been asked.

In his weekly Monday Morning Quarterback on SI.com Peter King had little good to say about firing Rob Chudzinski after one year: “If you give a man a four-year contract to coach your team and fire him after 11-and-a-half months, clearly you have either misjudged the man severely, had a shoddy coaching search in the first place or panicked. Or all three."

Finally, SI.com’s Don Banks said the move “fed into the perception of the Browns organization as Chaos Central in the NFL.” Banks had one of the more tempered thoughts on the move, though, as he added: “But if Cleveland could have gotten more production (or health) out of the three-headed quarterback combination of Brandon Weeden, Brian Hoyer and Jason Campbell, Chudzinski probably would have received the Browns' more standard two-year coaching commitment (see Chris Palmer, Eric Mangini and Pat Shurmur).”

_____________

guys, once again we are getting laughed at, and even more now that we are considering McDaniels.

i mean if the guy gets hired, we as fans really have no choice, at least for the 1st season, but to thrown our support for him. i know this guy track record is spotty at best, but what other choice do we have?

we didn't even interview Lovie Smith, which IMO is the best option we could've had as HC.

ithe new fO set the bar high high and the time table to meet their standard low, so do you guys honestly think, of all the coaches, Mcdaniels is the one to make that happen?

i seriously doubt that.

With the many Head Coaching Jobs across both the NFL and NCAA no other Team/School is interviewing Josh MdDaniels. Zero. What does that tell you?

To me is says once again the Browns job is not a desirable situation that the coaches everyone else believe to be HC worthy will not come here and we will once again have to settle for either 1st time HC's or people looking for a second chance after their first one was a disaster.

It's worked so well since 1999, why not try it again? Remember, buy season tickets and sell out the stadium, if you don't there is a Stadium being built in L.A.

That's odd.

I mean, after all, some have told those of us that disliked the firing of Chud and reactions to it as "classless", "unprofessional", "who would want to coach the browns with the local media and fans......"

But here, we have reporters from SI, the NFL network, the Boston Globe, and CBSsports railing on our stooges as well.

Oh, so.......it's not just the local media and some fans that think this was a stupid, panic move, huh?

Quote:

---

i mean if the guy gets hired, we as fans really have no choice, at least for the 1st season, but to thrown our support for him. i know this guy track record is spotty at best, but what other choice do we have?

---

Exactly the option I mentioned in my "Chud Fired" post:

Kick these fools to the curb- and step on the gas.

If these guys don't get this right, and frack up the 2014 season, I'll sincerely miss interacting with you guys. Coming here (as a former Browns fan) will be just too painful.

Right now, this is like watching a 5-car pileup in slow motion... and I have little to no faith that Hazmat 2014 will be any better than Hazmat '13 was.

Oobernoober said he was shocked at my reaction, because I'm (in his words) "usually so even-keeled." Believe it or not, I still am- even right now. I'm feeling no anger whatsoever as I write this. I try at all times to be rational and objective... and I simply cannot see any way this group could possibly succeed. Not right now. We're going to lose our entire coaching staff before all this shakes out. So- after all the pretty talk about consistency and continuity, we'll have a total purge/restock at virtually every important post on the sidelines. Who in their right mind thinks that this team will be ready to compete next September?

From coaching hires to player evaluation to draft picks... they must hit BigTime in every category- and I don't know of ANY NFL team that could pull that off.

j/c

I believe McDaniel's interview with us is on Saturday. I wouldn't be surprised if this is just a formality . Hmmm....don't forget the Rooney Rule.

Maybe it would have been nice if Lombardi would have relayed his wisdom to his current bosses, as far as maybe ...

Firing Chud 16 games into his tenure as the head coach is bad for both parties. It wasn't enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for Chud to grow into the job.

It's amazing how the simple substitution of the coach's name and the number of games the coach coached really says a lot.


Can the Cleveland Browns lure top target Josh McDaniels when his fellow CAA client Rob Chudzinski was fired after a year? | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...#incart_m-rpt-2

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Will the Browns be able to lure top coaching candidate Josh McDaniels back to his hometown team after they just fired his fellow Creative Artists Agency client Rob Chudzinski after one season?

McDaniels, the Patriots offensive coordinator and a Canton native, is represented by CAA's Jimmy Sexton, who just watched the Browns fire Chudzinski after his inaugural 4-12 season.

Will Sexton, who goes back 20-plus years with Browns general manager Mike Lombardi, feel confident placing McDaniels with a team where one of his other top clients was canned after a year?

Undoubtedly, job security will be a key issue during the interview, which takes place Saturday in New England, according to ESPN's Chris Mortensen.

The Browns will also interview Cardinals defensive coordinator Todd Bowles Friday in Arizona. Bowles, the former Browns secondary coach, satisfies the league's Rooney Rule for interviewing at least one minority candidate.

McDaniels' first head coaching job with the Denver Broncos in 2009 and 2010 did not go well, and he'll have to be careful about the second head job he takes. If he's not successful within the first few seasons here -- the regime expects to be contending for a championship within about two years --- it could mean the end of the road for his head-coaching aspirations.

The Broncos pulled the plug on him after only 28 games (11-17) , citing some of the same reasons the Browns used for firing Chudzinski.

First and foremost, owner Pat Bowlen was unhappy with the direction of the team -- a 5-17 slide following a rousing 6-0 start in 2009. McDaniels was also fired in part for failing to report that his videographer taped a portion of a San Francisco 49ers practice.

How will the Browns sell McDaniels to their players when they gathered them in a room the day after Chudzinski was fired and told them it was all about the team getting worse instead of better?

They'll do it by flashing the three Super Bowl rings McDaniels won when he was with Bill Belichick and Tom Brady in New England.

Browns general manager Mike Lombardi - who is firmly entrenched in the Patriots Way - is a huge McDaniels fan and sees similarities between him and a young Bill Belichick.

In an article written by Lombardi for nfl.com on Dec. 7, 2010 after McDaniel was fired by the Broncos, Lombardi came out strongly against McDaniels' firing and made it clear he'd hire him in a heartbeat.

He wrote:

"Firing McDaniels 28 games into his tenure as the head coach is bad for both parties. It wasn't enough time for the team to be fully developed, or enough time for McDaniels to grow into the job.

"And therein lies the problem -- the Broncos wanted to change, but were not committed to change. Once they slipped into a different world, they longed to be back to their old ways of doing things. They really love the Bronco Way.

"Never mind they have only won one playoff game in the last 12 years. Never mind they lack talent on the field, or are going to be paying three head coaches as a result of McDaniels' firing. Never mind they might have to take two steps back to move forward. Clearly, this move means the Broncos long for their old days, and potentially bringing John Elway back into the organization signals how much they miss those days.''

Lombardi went on to write:

"I believe McDaniels will one day be a successful head coach. I believe this because I know what it takes to be successful in the league. I've never worked with Josh, nor have I spent much time around him. But I have observed him each week, from his game plans to his teams' performance on the field. His teams might not have been the most talented, but they were well-coached, well-designed and well-prepared.

"McDaniels will learn from his tenure in Denver, just as Belichick learned from his time in Cleveland, and some other owner willing to change will benefit greatly.''

It was the same line of thinking former Browns owner Randy Lerner had when he hired Eric Mangini in 2009, that he'd be wildly successful -- Belichick-successful -- in his second chance. Mangini never counted on Lerner falling in love with Mike Holmgren during his first year on the job, which spelled the end of him before he had a chance.

So even though McDaniels and Lombardi are close and Banner has long admired him from afar, the hiring won't be as clear-cut as it might seem. Both sides will need to work through some issues, including long-term assurances from the Browns and a good explanation for a 22-game skid on the part of McDaniels.

In any case, the Browns can't offer McDaniels a contract -- or agree to one behind the scenes -- until the Patriots are out of the playoffs.

If they make it all the way to the Super Bowl, the Browns can interview McDaniels one more time in the week leading up to the Super Bowl, which is Feb. 2 at MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, N.J.

The Browns have also interviewed Seahawks defensive coordinator Dan Quinn on Wednesday in Seattle. He will also be interviewed by the Vikings on Saturday, while the Browns are trying to bring McDaniels back to Northeast Ohio.

Great, so if they're *thinking* about hiring McDaniels, they can't hire him until the Pats are out of the playoffs, which could be after the super bowl. In the meantime, all the other qualified candidates could be hired.

Wouldn't it be something (terrible) if they were set on McDaniels, all their other targets got hired, then after the seasons Belichik just gave McDaniels a pay bump to keep him?

I wonder how many more Press conferences Haslam wants to sit in on ? .. Would be nice to turn the press loose on Lombo

Quote:

---

Bellichek was a terrible head coach at first for pretty much all the same reasons. Bullheaded, arrogant, hard to work with, etc.

---

I don't get why people say BB was terrible at first.. he took a 3-13 team in disarray and had it to 11-5 in 4 years and was well on his way the next year when we announced the move and the wheels fell off...

BB came across as bullheaded and arrogant because he thought he was always right... turns out he usually was.... and that's the only way people put up with that attitude for long.. you better have success quickly.

So either McDaniels needs to win immediately or become nice and fluffy so he can con the Browns out of more checks?