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Quote:
Emmitt Smith and LaDainian Tomlinson had their best seasons under Norv Turner.
LT had 7 of his 8 best seasons under Marty Schottenheimer.. he had his second best season under Turner...
Emmett Smith had his best season with Ernie Zampese as his OC and Barry Switzer as his HC.. but his 3 years under Norv were 2, 3, and 4...
yebat' Putin
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It's interesting that you are now blasting Norv after praising him being hired as our OC.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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It's interesting that you are now blasting Norv after praising him being hired as our OC.
I'm not defending Vers, but it's ok to be exited about a hire and then have it not turn out to be what you thought it would be and get upset.... it happens quite a bit actually. Draft picks, coaches, the list goes on of folks I was very happy to get only to be disgusted with a year or two down the road..
yebat' Putin
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Think it has anything to do with a new RB, WR and OT as well as a healthy team this year?
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I find it interesting---and even revealing--- that instead of addressing the stats, you make it about me.
Btw------------where did I blast him? I posted factual stats, not opinions.
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I'm not upset w/Norv or the hire, but I can't say I will be too sad to see him leave.
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Think it has anything to do with a new RB
So, the Ryan Matthews who played in 2013 wasn't the same Ryan Matthews from 2012?
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Quote:
Quote:
Think it has anything to do with a new RB
So, the Ryan Matthews who played in 2013 wasn't the same Ryan Matthews from 2012?
Well he was placed on IR last year so yes. But Danny Woodhead is also their defacto #3 WR after Keenan Allen and Antonio Gates. And a defacto #3 who has 8 combined touchdowns isn't bad.
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Ignore every single stat. I don't care.
Tired of all the excuses that are being made. Sick of reading dumb post after dumb post.
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Ignore every single stat. I don't care.
Tired of all the excuses that are being made. Sick of reading dumb post after dumb post.
Stats are useful, don't get me wrong. But without context they're useless. Also extremely ironic stating that you wouldn't care about stats validating how Ward played because your eyes were good enough to see them. But keep avoiding context trying to push your party line.
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Context? Pushing the party line? LMAO..........priceless. Are you saying that there is no correlation between those stats and the coaching change? Seriously? Are you saying that you--and the rest of the mob--aren't buying into every negative article there is and dismissing anything positive? Are you saying you guys aren't spinning things?  Don't think I will respond to any more of your nonsense. So, go ahead and get one real good last bash in.
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I point out your interpretation flaws and I'm suddenly everyone is bashing you? I'm not sure if it was due to the coaching or the personnel, but considering Norv Turner's resume I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Do you feel like the SD offense is just as talented as last year? Exactly as talented? But feel free to keep walking down the path of lashing out at everyone without considering what they're saying.
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The Chargers added additional pieces, but the main difference was Rivers. That guy's play the last 3 or 4 seasons is a mystery wrapped in an enigma. A couple years ago he goes from being borderline elite to a complete int machine. The guy stunk it up for two seasons, and for no reason. No apparent injuries. Many of the same guys around him. Norv gets canned and Rivers goes off this season. The talking heads here were saying that Wiz and McCoy gave Rivers more say in the offense, but to my (admitedly non-football experienced) eyes, I don't see anything obvious that would cause a guy to play so well, then become a bad decision maker for two seasons, then go back to good again.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
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Norv is a great OC, not so much of a great HC.. Just keep the bashing in perspective...
Cleveland could have had Vince Lombardi, Don Shula and Bill Walsh as coaches and the team would have been terrible....
Last edited by ChargerDawg; 01/16/14 10:22 PM.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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The 2 biggest weaknesses the Chargers had in 2012 were OL and WR. They added Keenan Allen and he had a 1000 yard season as a rookie receiver. That was damn impressive. They plugged 2nd year player Reyes in at LT, and he performed. They brought in King Dunlap from the Eagles. Chad Reinhart was brought in from the Chargers. They drafted DJ Fluker to be their RT. In other words, they made significant changes, and significant investment in their biggest areas of need. That's a rather innovative way of going about things.  I should ad that I liked Mike McCoy as well. He was one of my top preferences for head coach, behind (initially) Arians. (who was my top choice, before Chud's name came up)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Funny isn't it, how quickly "fair and balanced" opinions can change, huh?….that's what you said just a month ago (DEC 10th)…you know…when I dared to criticize Norv and he was still our OC: Quote:
"Look fellas, DJ can spin all he wants, but Norv was always respected as an offensive coordinator. He wasn't a very good HC, but he was always highly regarded as a OC, and it wasn't because his bottom line efficiency was poor. "
A couple of weeks later, we fire Chud and you've suddenly turned into Norv's biggest doubter culminating in posting "bottom line efficiency" stats in this thread.
Then, just before the season, when another poster directly asked you this when being skeptic about Norv's last season in SD:
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And do you think the Chargers line and running back injuries had much to do with last season?
Your answer just some months ago:
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I know for a fact that the Chargers OL killed SD's chances last year.
But, that is kinda my point. These guys might be great coaches. Heck man, I love our coaching hires. I think Banner did a great job in assembling a coaching staff. I think our two coordinators are the best tandem in the league. And while Chud hasn't proven squat, I like the hire.
That is not what I am saying. I am saying that even good coaches can field bad teams if the talent isn't where it should be, whether it be from just a simple lack of talent, injuries, terrible chemistry, scheduling, etc.
I was just warning people that we can't automatically assume that we will be so much better just because we are changing our schemes and play calling. Believe it or not, it actually kills me when I see you guys get so hyped before each season and then so disappointed once the games start.
Well…sounds a lot like the kind of "reasoning" you're batting away with:
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Ignore every single stat. I don't care.
Tired of all the excuses that are being made. Sick of reading dumb post after dumb post.
Oh well... 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Priceless. Now THAT'S "revealing".
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 01/17/14 07:18 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I'm not saying he's good or bad, just that I'm not sure where this myth that he likes a power running game came from.. When you get a lot of first downs you can have both Air n Ground stats and of course success - its known as the flow you got the D on their heels and you get success with both cause things are being executed.
When you are getting 3 n outs or 5-6 n outs - no sustained drives you're not going to get that flow. Point blank its tough without the QB - but we also didn't have an AP to run first with and start the flow via the run and force teams to defend that - of course he has to have a QB to make it work. Vikings...between the 3 (Freeman being the most talented but does he have a drug problem?) he could get his QB. He reportedly got rid of Campbells hitch in his throwing motion this was brought out when Campbell was impressing the STAT People.
As for following Norv as an HC for his OC prowess it might not be the same cause he had to spread his attention and he never was a successful HC to any extent that matches his OC prowess.
Chargers had gotten in roads with their OL and fixed the depth that was exposed with injuries. matthews came on strong...change of offense? or just a maturation thing???
I think they initially were going to rely on Trent...never really got him going - I still think his calling is in the Air Attack (Trent that is) rather than a 3 yards a cloud of dust type of O. Didn't he lead the team in receptions his rookie season?
But enough of that...Vikings are in a different conference so in lieu of that...Good luck Norv. If we meet SB or 4 years from now when we play the NFC North...hope you lose
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Interesting. I did not realize there were that many changes to the line. I knew about Fluked, but not the other guys.
What Allen did was great, but it was only possible with the turnaround Rivers had. Night and day from last year.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
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Noooo... we need the Steelers line to keep sucking... 
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Yes. There is satisfaction watching defenders get a clean run and smack on Ben. Honestly in a non-gross or weird manner - there is a lot of satisfaction watching Ben get clobbered. 
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Especially when it's our Defense 
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Quote:
Lot of guys now talking about how good Norv is. Here are some interesting stats:
San Diego Chargers in 2013 w/a new coach and 2012 w/Norv.
Total Yds:
2013: 6,293
2012: 4,756
Passing:
2013: 4478
2012: 3,606
Rushing:
2013: 1.965
2012: 1,461
Sacks Allowed:
2013: 30
2012: 49
Rivers QB Rating:
2013: 105.5
2012: 88.6
Matthews Rushing Totals:
2013: 1,255
2012: 707
Sure looks like they did a lot better w/out Norv.
Sort of sums up what I was saying. They had a much better offensive year with him gone.
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What a joke this has become...im trying to be positive but its just not working out. Should have never fired chud. Losing norv turner is ridiculous. The argument can be mad that Norv has been the best offense coordinator for the last 2o years....and we let him go because haslam HAS NO PATIENCE AND BANNER IS A GLORIFIED ACCOUNTANT who thinks he is a football guru. I am sick of hearing him talk about andy reid. Trying to take the credit for what REID AND TOM HECKERT BUILT IN PHILLY...... BANNER HAD SQUAT TO DO WITH IT.......cant stand that guy. When i heard he was coming here i was not pleased...and now i see that feeling that way has been justified.
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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Priceless.
Now THAT'S "revealing".
You revealed yourself long ago for what you really are.
If you don't have an argument, make it about the poster. Gutty.
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For the record, I really never bashed Norv. I simply posted the stats to show that some people were being misleading in their posts. I added very little commentary.
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(Yawn). Here we go again... 
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Look.............I know that you really aren't at fault for your bullying behavior. Instead, it is your insecure nature that forces you to team up w/others when attacking people. I'll just ignore you from now on.........but give the constant personal attacks a rest for awhile. I'm sure some are sick of it.
Here is what I feel about Norv:
---I do not agree w/DJ that the game has passed him by. I argued against that during the season and I will still argue that point.
--I liked many of his calls this year. Look at the last game. We go for it on 4th down, we clear out an area and run a crossing route. Cooper breaks wide open. JC throws it behind Cooper, who keeps running and tries to make a one-handed catch, only to drop it. Great call. Terrible execution.
--I liked how Norv would not go conservative late in a half or a game. Think about the NE game. He kept throwing and did not settle for FGs late in the game. Very aggressive.
--I do think the stats I provided are relevant. There is no doubt that SD's offense improved under the new coaching staff. The BIGGEST difference was that the new system was more QB friendly. It called for shorter routes w/more options and having the QB get rid of the ball quicker, which led to fewer sacks, fewer negative plays, and more productive plays........which helps in down and distance situations.
--I think that Norv did not utilize the running game enough in Cleveland. Yes, our running backs were not very good, but you still have to run it. You can't just ignore that phase of the game because if you do, your QB is going to get killed and teams will play zone defenses designed to stop the pass first and foremost. You need balance even if you don't do something particularly well.
--Norv in Minnesota. He does have Peterson. Who is his QB? What is Minni going to do w/out a QB? The main thing that concerns me in regards to Norv and Minnesota is it reminds me of how much Minni needs a QB and the possibility that they may jump us in the draft. This is something that needs to be considered when we decide to stay put or move up.
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I was so hopeful for our coordinators. I really thought we scored the two best coordinators available. I wasn't sure about Chud, because his offenses were inconsistent in the past, but I thought we were set with Norv and Horton.
I did see some good signs that gave me hope. On the other hand, things really went down the chute in the latter half of the season.
I remember thinking [and other posters did, too] that our defense would start off slow and then get better as the year progressed. The reasoning was that not only was the defense getting a new coach, but they had to switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 base defense.
The opposite occurred. The defense began the season playing excellent football. They actually regressed as the season went on. We got absolutely no pressure on the QB late in the season. That was the biggest disappointment for me. Additionally, Horton seemed to toot his own horn too much. I can't say that I am very sad to see him go.
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i am.
i wish horton would've stayed.
i understand we can argue who gave up late in the 4th quarter, thats a different topic, but overall, i think the reasoning for the decline on defense was a few things:
remember, horton said he will keep making the D more complicated, more plays. that could've effected them if he did that too early.
Owens was a bum. skrine was playing better throughout the season, but owens was getting raped out there every single game.
that lead to us having to play the pass more imo. our D was built to rush the passer, but consistently game by game, we were rushing less and less.
no i don't know if that is talent, coaching, or both. but i for one, am gonna miss horton and norv.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Quote:
We got absolutely no pressure on the QB late in the season.
We seemed (to me at least) that we were blitzing less. Would that be because Horton didn't feel (or trust) that we could play man coverage sufficiently well enough to permit him to blitz more?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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no i don't know if that is talent, coaching, or both. but i for one, am gonna miss horton and norv.
You are? You were one of the loudest of all posters in regards to blaming the "coaching" for our poor performance. 
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dude, just like i said before, just because i criticize them doesn't mean i think they did a craptastic job.
i fully expected them to be better next year in a significant way.
why does everything have to be so cut and dry with you?
i'll say this once again, since you seem to ignore it every time: just because somebody criticizes a coach, doesn't mean they want them fired.
it means theres room for improvement.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I think what happened to this defense was their weakness got exposed in the 2nd half of the Lions game and it got exploited week in and week out after.
This team had no answer coevring 3rd wide outs, tight ends, and running backs. This also allowed teams to get the ball out quickly taking away the pass rush. Then when the Browns tried to adjust the defense to take away those short quick throws they did not blitz as much.
Early in the season teams thought Skrine was the weakness and tried to attack him down field. Skrine held up and played well allowing the pass rush to get to the QB. After the Lions game teams consistantly attacked Owens, Robertson, Gipson and Ward in coverage.
Whoever becomes the Browns defensive coordinator they must find a way to fix this issue or the defense will not improve next season.
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It definitely was a difficult year to see exactly what the coaching staff was able to do as far as using their experience and knowledge to get this team turned around..
I too thought we had an outstanding staff in place with Norv and Ray as coordinators.
I truly believe it would have been a whole different look if they had the one thing they were missing and much needed.... outstanding QB play.
I won't miss them... as they didn't give me anything to miss... I wont miss 4-12 seasons that's for sure... I wish them the best... and hope that the future ones have what they need to turn this team around and build it into a SB contender.
I understand what hand was dealt to them... and how they had to play it...
Hopefully this dealer... deals out a hand we can win with...
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