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A second chance after some time off, typically.
Not getting a job right away.
See Mangini
No doubt it can go the othr way.
So who?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Haslam don't need no stinking coach. This isn't his first rodeo. He's got this!
/purple.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Where is this Gase guy in the Broncos game? I thought they'd highlight the guy for all of his superior play calling, but nothing?
#GMSTRONG
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J/C. I have to wonder for some people is it that we fired the head coach after 1 season or is it that we fired Chud after one season. I truly think for some it's a major difference.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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For me its both. It is just inconceivable that anyone would transition from Shurmurs small ball WCO to a Coryell offense and from Jaurons bend dont break to Hortons 3-4 and then fire the first time head coach after one season when you trade away what was considered the cornerstone of the franchise.
When Franklin took the Penn st job, that should have sent red flags up to everyone on how much of a mess this really is. Take this job and have Lombardi tell you who to play and win no matter what decisions the FO makes or they fire you after a year. Sounds like a job all the top coaching candidates are gonna fight over.
Then of course u have Haslim who ripped off small business owners across America in his rebate scam and could be heading to prison, Lombardi who has backstabbed and manipulated his way around the league for the last 20 plus years and of course the weasel Banner lol
Hell with it, this franchise is an embarrassment to the league and to its fans. When you have Bengals fans laughing at how frigged up the Browns organization are, something is wrong.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 01/12/14 08:58 PM.
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there are a lot of ways to look at this. All we can do is speculate.
I think Haslam is behind the firing of Chud because he wasn't totally sold on him when he was hired but he went along with Banner....I don't know how involved Lombardi was in the hire....I get the feeling not much.
Either way, I don't think the situation is as toxic as some think. Who knows, maybe i am wrong and we become the first team in history who goes in to a season without a head coach. 
U are close to the what it is..when Hasselhoff didn't see progression he didn't like it .
But he doesn't like other things that have happened.
The problem is the perception of the team..it does look unorganized and chaotic..
It also puts them in a huge hole.
Whoever the next coach is, suppose he's bad and needs to be let go/
How's that going to look if they come to that road yet again?
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Exactly Why I Fire The Pair Of Them, Tell The Media I Was The Mistaken One Here And Go Get A Real, Experienced, Respected GM Proving You REALLY DO WANT CHANGE HERE. I Can't Take This Crew Serious At This Point. 
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This is pretty easy to figure out...
Most observers to the situation can't figure out how a team could dump a coach after hamstringing him by dropping a couple of draft choices, and trading the best running back that they had...
From most outsiders perspective, Chud had no major stupid moves as a coach over the year, and although the team flamed out at the end, it was plausible given the crappy QB play.
So even though there are a limited number of coaching positions available, this one may be a real disaster... and they would be right.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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All Pro
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JC. So not including people who the Browns have not named to be interviewed. We are down to 3 people that have been interviewed that have not been taken out of consideration? Quinn Bowles Whisenhunt. Who in all of you guys opnions of those 3 might be coach? Likes, dislikes? I was watching Whisenhunts 3rd down D today. 3rd and 17 in particular.  Is Quinn the "frontrunner"? Unless there is some huge BOLD surprise secret prospect the media has not had leaked to them?
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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~ Legend
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Whisenhunt is their offensive coordinator.
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J/C. I have to wonder for some people is it that we fired the head coach after 1 season or is it that we fired Chud after one season. I truly think for some it's a major difference.
Neither. It's the information gathered, analyzed and digested by Halsem and Banner on their initial coaching search that led them to the conclusion that Chud was the best man for the job is what's concerning. Especially after less than a year ago, Haslem was quoted as saying upon Chud's hire, "I believe we came back with the best coach for the Cleveland Browns," said Haslam, who flew Thursday night with Banner to Charlotte, N.C., to offer Chudzinski the job. "He is one of the brightest young coaches in the business." For all accounts, according to the Browns brass, it appears the FO heavily vetted all candidates and decided Chud was the best candidate.
Again, for me anyway, it has nothing to do with Chud inasmuch as it has to do with the cohesion and decision making capabilities of the the FO. Why can we expect/hope for them to get it right this time?
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I do not think Kliff Kingsbury is ready to be an NFL head coach but I think he is a future big time coach and would at least try and interview him. He was also Manziel's offensive coordinator in 2012.
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To me its who they hell they gonna get thats better than what we just threw away. I just find it all to be disgusting.
I really wish we could hire an experienced HC for once.
Until then I am going to believe that the sky isn't falling.
The sky fell back when Modell moved the team and hasn't lifted since. Now it appears they're are pouring concrete on it to make sure it doesn't lift. 
Also...thanks for clarifying on the money vs contract security question of mine.
I'd go you one better than that, Milk:
The sky started slowly falling when Modell BOUGHT the team. Think of it- this team had one... ONE HC from 1948-1965. that's when Modell flipped the culture, by hiring Blanton Collier for awhile, then followed that up with a succession of hires/fires trying to recapture what we already had. Since then, the longest HC tenure we've had was 7 years... and the new average for Browns HC's is....
...wait for it-
2.3 years.
In the time of Paul Brown, the Steelers went through no fewer than 13 different HC's/staffs... and were routinely OWNED by the Browns. Matter of fact, they continued to be league doormats until the Rooneys committed to Chuck Noll in the early '70's... when the entire 'rivalry' story was flipped.
To me, this has been the key to why we've been so miserable for so long....and why 2 generations of Steelers fans have known nothing other than winning football, and 3 generations of Browns fans have known nothing but loss and frustration.
Art set this debacle in motion 40 years ago. He tinkered, meddled, hired and fired in an attempt to capture lightning in a bottle... then moved The Team that Bill Built. Since then, it's been one short-term commitment after another- with the same discouraging results.
Then, along comes this new bunch... and we're fed the same old 'consistency' line- only to have them behave like Modell on steroids. The team average of 2.3 years was completely exploded... and the new HC was fired after eleven months.
Which means that most of our coaching staff is gone... or soon will be gone- leaving us- once again- to totally re-boot an entire NFL team, while we expect them to compete... In the AFC North. The one division that has been THE model of consistency in all of the NFL!
Here's a fun fact: Mike Tomlin has been coach of the Steelers since 2007 (just 7 years). In that time, the Browns have been through 4 Head Coaches/regimes, and are now looking for #5.
If this isn't the very definition of: 'insanity,' there is no such thing as 'insane.'
____________________________
When I was coming up as a kid, I discovered that I had an affinity for playing music. Right place/right time/right teacher/right instrument choice- whatever it was, I was able to get a decent start at something I truly loved. Here was this 13 year-old kid, putting in 2-3 hours of practice per day, trying to meet his teachers' expectations.
However, living in a town like Lima meant changing private teachers every year or two. Each time I'd get a new teacher, I'd spend the next 12 months 'unlearning' what the previous teacher had taught me, and the next 12 months trying to assimilate the new teacher's 'playbook' (sound familiar?)... only to have that teacher move away- which left me to start all over with whatever new 'coach' came my way. When I got to 9th grade, and the cycle was starting over again, My Pops (who knew nothing about music-making) decided to put a stop to the carousel. Through my school teachers, he hooked me up with a college teacher- an hour away (@BGSU).
(BTW: what modern-day parent commits 3+ hours of their lives- every single week, for 50 weeks/year- for 4+ years, so their kid can pursue a 'pipe dream' in a World that's stacked the deck against him?)
Peter Howard was The Real Deal: Cleveland Orch, Oberlin Conservatory, recording contracts, solo tours through Europe- the whole nine. He worked with me until I graduated HS, and I chose to continue with him in college- even though other more prestigious schools offered me better scholarships. Even as a kid, I instinctually KNEW that this setup was good for me. I spent the next 7 years with him, before he resigned his post to become the Top Dawg in St. Paul, MN in their chamber orch... one of the 5 ptop standing Chamber Music Ensembles in the World.
Those 7 years were the definition of consistency. I got my ed. I got my support. I got my chops. I got my voice. I got my identity as a player. It would never have happened if Pops hadn't said: "Enough is enough!"... and put me on a different path. I had lots of Lima friends in music (who were more accomplished than I) who stayed on the "rinse/repeat" cycle. Only one ever went on to become a pro performer... and he didn't begin to realize his potential until he studied with the same prof at LSU- for 6 years.
There's a theme here- a 'truism' at work... and it transcends the barriers of vocation. If one is to achieve any measure of success, one must formulate a solid plan, stick to that plan, and make corrective adjustments along the way. Success is the product of time, dedication and commitment. Since The Return, the Browns have been woefully inadequate at every single one of these criteria... and their results have been painfully predictable because of it.
I talk about Browns Culture all the time, because a team's 'identity' is defined by the culture that feeds it. To date (...and going all the way back to 1965), this team's "culture" is to allow a system the same life expectancy as a bacteria culture in a petri dish.
Browns are soft.
Browns fans are soft.
Browns culture is soft.
Browns results are soft.
And it's all because of one reason, as I see it:
Nobody at 76 Groza wants to do the really, really hard work necessary to build something that truly lasts.
Growth is painful. And slow. And incremental. And it involves a lot of criticism and self-evaluation. BUT: if you 'do all the steps,' you eventually DO end up on the other side of failure.
We aren't there yet. And we aren't there, because The New Bunch did their own version of the 'same old same old' that has been done by every bunch that's been here since Art Modell stuck his face into Cleveland Football Sports.
**********************************
It's gonna take someone as strong as My Pops to turn this listing ship in a new direction.... and sadly, there aren't too many folks around who have what My Pops had. Is Jimmy that man?
Only time will tell us that... but right now, I'm not at all certain. I still have some hope that he is- but our current 'clusterfrakk' isn't instilling a lot of confidence in me.
I'm still here... but this new bunch is 'on the clock.'
Why? -Because even Peter would have dumped me from his studio, if I'd continue to act as the Browns do.
Pops tolerated no 'mess' from those around him. Peter was the same. BOTH would have advocated the same "tough love" approach, if I talked with them about our beloved Browns today.
Sooner or later, this team will have to do what they (still) haven't yet done... if they want different results on the field.
They simply MUST stick with something through "the tough years."
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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A few other guys that I would consider if we are actually leaving no stone unturned:
Gary Patterson - Head Coach, TCU
Kirk Ferentz - Head Coach, Iowa
Pat Fitzgerald - Head Coach, Northwestern
Jack Del Rio - Defensive Coordinator, Denver Broncos
Greg Roman - Offensive Coordinator, San Francisco 49ers
Pete Carmichael Jr. - Offensive Coordinator, New Orleans Saints
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don't worry. i'll take the HC job.
i need a staff though. its all gonna be from this website.
emailing my resume as we speak.
LOl....I thought about that as well. Maybe hire Clevesteve as my GM. Vers as my D coordinator. Daman as my O coordinator, I'd need somebody to blame when things went poorly.  
LOL The situation is too toxic for me But I'll pass on the job lead to Diam 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This is pretty easy to figure out...
Most observers to the situation can't figure out how a team could dump a coach after hamstringing him by dropping a couple of draft choices, and trading the best running back that they had.
Hamstrung by dropping a couple of draft choices? The team has them this year and lacked one (albeit for Gordon) going into the draft.
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From most outsiders perspective, Chud had no major stupid moves as a coach over the year
Except that it was his decisions on who started the games.
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...and although the team flamed out at the end, it was plausible given the crappy QB play.
But isn't his job to make sure they're ready to play? And, if they are performing badly, then he has the power to replace them from game-to-game and even during a game? If he had platooned them like a college coach with two mediocre QBs might have done, he could have gotten better results.
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So even though there are a limited number of coaching positions available, this one may be a real disaster... and they would be right.
Let's ask it another way. Would YOU take the job if it was offered to you?
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I wouldn't..... Two reasons: 1, I'm not qualified and 2, I don't trust the FO But, there is one reason to take it.. MONEY.. If they paid me a million to take that job, I'd do it for a year. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c...
Well the moment of truth is upon us - What I believe our first choice is now done with his 2013 season as OC of the Chargers. He seems to be the star of the HC class...I find it hard to believe we are waiting for Gase? possibly the DC of Seahawks?
Well Lions and Titans want Wisenhunt also - do we have any clout with our team situation or the Stability factor is going to rear its ugly head. Actually If I'm a coach and they want me I get a nice 5 year guaranteed contract and if the Browns fire me wala...a Million dollar retirement fund while golfing in Hawaii.. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c...
Well the moment of truth is upon us - What I believe our first choice is now done with his 2013 season as OC of the Chargers. He seems to be the star of the HC class...I find it hard to believe we are waiting for Gase? possibly the DC of Seahawks?
Well Lions and Titans want Wisenhunt also - do we have any clout with our team situation or the Stability factor is going to rear its ugly head. Actually If I'm a coach and they want me I get a nice 5 year guaranteed contract and if the Browns fire me wala...a Million dollar retirement fund while golfing in Hawaii..
Everything I've read points to him going to Detroit. They have a running game, a QB and a world class receiver to build upon.
He doesn't have that here. I'm not sure what the Titans have.
I'd guess that we're not his first choice. In his shoes, The Browns wouldn't be mine.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c...
Well the moment of truth is upon us - What I believe our first choice is now done with his 2013 season as OC of the Chargers. He seems to be the star of the HC class...I find it hard to believe we are waiting for Gase? possibly the DC of Seahawks?
Well Lions and Titans want Wisenhunt also - do we have any clout with our team situation or the Stability factor is going to rear its ugly head. Actually If I'm a coach and they want me I get a nice 5 year guaranteed contract and if the Browns fire me wala...a Million dollar retirement fund while golfing in Hawaii..
Everything I've read points to him going to Detroit. They have a running game, a QB and a world class receiver to build upon.
He doesn't have that here. I'm not sure what the Titans have.
I'd guess that we're not his first choice. In his shoes, The Browns wouldn't be mine.
They also have a phenomenal defensive line w/ Suh, Failey, Ansah. If Detriot can get some better cornerback help, they could be really, really good.
But yes, bottom line is they have a legit Franchise QB and we don't. This has to be the biggest factor in his decision making process IF we are a finalist for him.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 01/13/14 09:41 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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also, the titans have something more than us, as well.
they have a RB, a QB who is good when not injured, same as stafford.
i dunno if i'm a HC, that i wouldn't pick those 2 places before i pick cleveland. i mean...we have a history of sucking. nobody except browns fans brings up anything past 99. and now we live by the one and done HC philosophy...nah, if i'm a potential HC, you better throw me some major bread before i even think about coming to cleveland.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Great post Clem and I agree with all of it. The Browns track record of hiring/firing coaches is absolutely mind boggling. A lifespan of 2.3 years for a coach is a recipe for disaster. Sounds like your old man was a heck of a guy.
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Does it matter if it's bold? All I know is that Rivers played way better under Whisenhut this year than he did under Norv last year. The entire offense was much better.
Well, Norv was his head coach, Whisenhunt was his OC.. there is a difference. Rivers had some of his best years (and the Chargers had much better records) back in 08,09, 10.. when Clarence Shelmon was his OC.. maybe we should hire Clarence Shelmon as our HC...
(Don't bother looking it up, Shelmon is over 60 and is comfortably retired)..
yebat' Putin
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I've always stated this started with Modell n his ego getting rid of the GREAT Paul Brown. Yes they won in 64 with basically the Paul Brown team still in place. As that team slowly eroded away we gradually went from Champions to playoff team to rebuild and then Sipe n a new nucleus of players came along. Still Modell hiring n firing as we went along. Breaking down again until the Gleam came along but power again reared its ugly head with him...finally we started anew with BB and a great team was in placed the fans didn't kick BB out cause of his record...we were a good team on the rise until the news of the Teams sale...everything went downhill from there on the season was shot.
Since 99 we had two shots with 3.5 years the last .5 was the team on the oust for both Butch n RAC.
Wisenhunt the only thing that works with him coming here is nobody will expect him to be successful where in Detroit they think its a team that should go to the SB and if it doesn't come close to that mark he will be judged on it.
So maybe there is still hope...but it does say a lot that a top candidate won't consider us as an option. I hope this isn't going to be a big irreversible mess!
JMHFear
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Wisenhunt the only thing that works with him coming here is nobody will expect him to be successful where in Detroit they think its a team that should go to the SB and if it doesn't come close to that mark he will be judged on it.
I think a lot of it will hinge on whether he believes that Lombardi/Banner can draft the talent needed to build a top notch team and whether he'll be given time to make them winners.
Having players in place like Stafford Megatron, Fairly and Suh are known quantities. Draft picks are huge gambles.
A bird in the hand?
I'm not sure how it will end up, but I'm not getting my hopes up. I see where that has gotten me so far.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c… Browns set to interview Mike Munchak. I'd like to see the Browns interview Greg Roman for the position. Munchak Link
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j/c…
Browns set to interview Mike Munchak. I'd like to see the Browns interview Greg Roman for the position.
Munchak Link
Munchak has noted that he'd like to be an OL coach again if he doesn't get a HC job. Would LOVE for him to be our OL coach.
#gmstrong
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Jack Del Rio ... That would be the last straw for me !
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Jack Del Rio ... That would be the last straw for me !
Why? I think he might do well given another chance. He wasn't a terrible coach for the Jags and had them competing most years. I didn't like him personally, but admired his ability to get his team ready to play.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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EO, Clem
I guess this has taken on the title of the "Paul Brown Curse"
I try to look away and not see it as being real.
But, from 64 on the same ugly dysfunction has presided over the Browns. Other than getting Bernie in the supplemental draft (which many believe was a fix), nothing good, NOTHING, has happened for us. Nothing has worked.
I am hesitant to throw positive vibes Haslam's way, but I never saw any hope under Modell, Senior, and Junior. It just wasn't going to happen. So, I give Haslam a shot.
Primarily, because I don't have anything else, any choice.
Then he brings in Banner and Lombardi. Everybody makes excuses for their mistakes of the past. I do believe we have to give them a shot to prove they can get it right, we have no choice.
But, it still doesn't feel right. Some people bounce back and are better because of their mistakes. Others just keep making them over and over.
We are powerless.
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I wouldn't.....
Two reasons: 1, I'm not qualified and 2, I don't trust the FO
But, there is one reason to take it.. MONEY.. If they paid me a million to take that job, I'd do it for a year.
So, then you WOULD take the job. And you'd come cheap too!
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I wouldn't.....
Two reasons: 1, I'm not qualified and 2, I don't trust the FO
But, there is one reason to take it.. MONEY.. If they paid me a million to take that job, I'd do it for a year.
So, then you WOULD take the job. And you'd come cheap too!
Nope,, wouldn't.. I don't want the headaches.. And I don't want to work for people I don't trust.. Right now, I don't trust this front office.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c and totally off topic... Seeing the title of this thread, I always think using the word "deuce" to describe any process on this team is surprisingly accurate.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
j/c and totally off topic...
Seeing the title of this thread, I always think using the word "deuce" to describe any process on this team is surprisingly accurate.
Shouldn't it be Daux? LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Posts: 74,770
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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j/c Cleveland Browns interviewing former Titans head coach Mike Munchak, report says CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns will interview former Tennessee Titans coach Mike Munchak for their head coaching vacancy today, sources have told Alex Marvez of FOX Sports. Munchak, 53, was fired after his third season with the Titans. He went 22-26 overall, including 7-9 in 2013. Munchak, a former first-round pick of the Houston Oilers in 1982, had been with the Oilers-turned-Titans his entire professional career, including 14 years as offensive line coach from 1997-2010. The team and Munchak huddled for about a week after the season trying to agree on changes for a franchise that hasn't reached the playoffs since 2008 and hasn't won a postseason game since 2003. Munchak was hired by late Titans owner Bud Adams to replace the fired Jeff Fisher. His first offseason was marred by the NFL lockout, and his second was dominated by the failed pursuit of quarterback Peyton Manning. This past offseason, Adams, who died in October, spent more than $100 million to upgrade the roster, Including 13 new free agents. The message was clear: playoffs or bust. Munchak was fired by Tommy Smith, Adams' son-in-law and team president. The team had lost six games by one possession, and won six games by one. They also lost five straight at home and eight of 10 during one stretch. Disagreements over changes in his staff may have been a deciding factor. Munchak is the second former head coach the Browns have interviewed to replace Rob Chudzinski. The first was former Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt, who's a leading candidate for the Lions job. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/browns_interviewing_former_tit.html
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Whisenhunt is their offensive coordinator.
Oops!
My bad.
No idea why I thought he was the D coach.
How embarrassing. 
Well that means for sure I do not want the Chargers D coordinator> HA!
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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Legend
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We were pretty quiet does this mean Wisenhunt has told us to forget about him?
I love OL but I don't see how this is an upgrade - and we all know that a big big part of a team almost more important that the HC is the OC n DC...I still don't get how we upgrade there.
Oh well will wait for the direction commencing with the hire before fretting too much
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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2nd String
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2nd String
Joined: Sep 2011
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Quote:
Quote:
Whisenhunt is their offensive coordinator.
Oops!
My bad.
No idea why I thought he was the D coach.
How embarrassing.
Well that means for sure I do not want the Chargers D coordinator> HA!
Only gave up 24 points against the best offense of all time when the Chargers could not put a drive together to save their life.
Also, the Chargers gave up 72 points to the Broncos in 3 combined match ups. On the other hand, the Broncos scored 40-49 points on a single opponent 3 times this year and 50+ points 3 times.
The Chargers defense was the least of their problems.
Last edited by LittleGregBig; 01/13/14 02:31 PM.
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Legend
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Legend
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Munchak?
eh...dunno if that would be a good thing or not.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum HC search part deuce
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