|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Explain to me how they lied to us? Give me exact quotes. Don't fabricate the quotes. Use quotes.
How can you say that Banner doesn't have a track record of success? The Eagles were contenders for over a decade largely because he handled the salary cap and contracts so well.
I do feel your frustration. I simply think it is too early to make a final judgement.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I'm still not sold. I love the move, but I'm just not chalking it into the Win column yet, but the chalk is out and ready to write with.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I'm still not sold. I love the move, but I'm just not chalking it into the Win column yet, but the chalk is out and ready to write with.
Fair enough. Is the chalk out because of what Richardson has produced (or lack thereof) for Indy since the trade?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,884
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,884 |
Quote:
I'm still not sold. I love the move, but I'm just not chalking it into the Win column yet, but the chalk is out and ready to write with.
Knowing the Browns draft history I'd save the chalk for the outline around the body where another first rounder came to Cleveland and had his career die.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm still not sold. I love the move, but I'm just not chalking it into the Win column yet, but the chalk is out and ready to write with.
Fair enough. Is the chalk out because of what Richardson has produced (or lack thereof) for Indy since the trade?
More with how Turner ran the offense this season. RB wasn't a key, so getting rid of him was fine. I still don't think he's that bad of a back, but just one that needs to learn how to run in the NFL. I see him at full speed before he even hits the LOS a lot, which causes him to run over and into his o-line a lot. If we were still playing Marty Ball I would hate the move, but we're going pass happy and that's fine by me.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Not sure how people are still defending Richardson.
The guy had three carries for about 3 yards in the playoffs w/one huge fumble.
He was benched.
He averaged 3.6 yds. per carry last year w/us.
About 2.8 w/us this year.
3.0 w/Indy this year.
I mean....................really?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Is it fair to assume this is about me? I don't see anyone have any support for Richardson on the forums.
I defend him because I don't see a bad RB. I just see a good RB who is playing very badly.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
It's not really about anyone.
I just think those that defend him---and there are more than one---don't have much of a leg to stand on when they argue that we didn't make a great move by securing a first round pick for a RB who has not been very productive.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
To take that further....................how many RBs were drafted in round one last year?
How many do you think will be taken in round one this year?
How about next year?
RBs have been devalued. Heckert blew it when he traded up for TRich. We gave up picks to move up w/a team that had Peterson. Most of you didn't think that was stupid. No talk of stooges or buffoons on that idiotic move. Wonder why?
Our FO fixes an idiotic mistake by Heckert, and yet...........our fans and media still refer to them as bozos because they fired a coach who went 1 and 10 down the stretch and had a worse record than Passive Pat despite having a more talented roster.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..............sorry, but I ain't buying that baloney.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Quote:
Quote:
I'm still not sold. I love the move, but I'm just not chalking it into the Win column yet, but the chalk is out and ready to write with.
Knowing the Browns draft history I'd save the chalk for the outline around the body where another first rounder came to Cleveland and had his career die.
Gotta admit that his made me laugh pretty hard.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
To be fair last year and this year wasn't great for RB prospects... Next year will probably be the same unless Yeldon and Gurley come out and they're both, probably, 1st round picks. Melvin Gordon might be a 1st rounder too. I'd more chalk that up to weak years for RB's rather than them just being completely undervalued.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What do you think would turn off a candidate more
A front office that just fired it's coach after one year of a rebuild, led by an owner whose company is the subject of a federal fraud organization?
Or mean reporters and fans?
You know those NFL coaches are scared of the mean, mean fans and reporters of Cleveland. They're the NFL's boogeyman. I heard Bill Belichick has night terrors of being told he was a bad coach in the 90's!
Or someone sees a good defense, one of the best WRs in the game, a good-to-very good O-line, tons of picks in the upcoming draft, an owner willing to spend money and a lot of cap room.
Sure, I see a toxic situation like most do, but if this offseason goes well, this is a good landing spot for anyone.
Last I checked, there are only 32 of these jobs on the planet.
When the sentiment of 'no one wants to come here' is expressed, the immediate reaction is to argue it literally and point out that there's only 32 jobs.
It's not about a coach, it's about the right coach. We have pluses, but we have a lot of minuses, and a lot of question marks.
Is it "radioactive"? I don't know.
But there are a lot more attractive options.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753 |
j/c
So, we have Quinn, Munchak, Bowles, McAdoo and Gase left of the rumors/potentially to be interviewed?
Adam Gase, one year on the job in Denver, working with the best QB to have played the game. Yeah, they broke records this year, but is that because of Gase or because of great offensive players and Manning? he has the easiest job of the remaining candidates. Never been a head coach at any level.
Dan Quinn, one year on the job in Seattle taking over a top defense from Gus Bradley with extra talent added this year in the offseason. He has the 2nd easiest job of all of the remaining candidates. Never been a head coach at any level.
Ben McAdoo, GB TE Coach 2006-2010, QB coach 2011-2013. 2-4-1 without Aaron Rodgers. Never been a head coach at any level. Hard to get excited about this guy.
Todd Bowles, turned a Philly defense around as an interim DC. Went 2-1 in Miami as interim head coach. Browns ties (2001-2004 as nickle package and secondary coach). Took a good defense in Arizona and made it better, though the team acquired more talent in the off-season.
Mike Munchak, 22-26 as head coach of Tennessee, including a 2-20 record against teams that have finished seasons with a winning record. Hall of Famer. 30 years in Oilers/Titan's organization including 12 as a player, 14 as OL coach. Team spent 100m in 2013 offseason resulting in 1 additional win over previous season, though starting QB was injured 9 games.
I can't really get excited about any of these guys. My gut tells me that Munchak was interviewed due to some connection with Haslam. The trend of no HC experience (3 games in Bowles' case) tells me that nothing will change - Banner and/or Lombardi want a lackey. If I had to pick a preference, I guess it'd be Bowles. I'm guessing it will be Gase though, rumors seem to say he's the front runner. If so, I hope he's more than just a shiny new toy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847 |
I'd rather have a retread like Billick than these scrubs...I don't see how any of these are better than Shurmur or Chud..Color me unimpressed with how they've handled this
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,528
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,528 |
I have always heard great things about Todd Bowles, dating back to his time as a position coach with the browns under Butch Davis.
he also took over the Dolphins as interim coach after Tony Sparano was fired, and, granted in a limited duty, coached a 4-9 team to a 2-1 finish. They beat the Bills and Jets, and played the Pats tough, losing by 3. All too often we see a team completely quit under an interim coach, but the Dolphins actually played better under Bowles. In fairness, the Dolphins did go 4-2 in Sparano's final 6 games as well.
I look at a guy like Munchack, and I see nothing that says "This guy will be a successful head coach for the Cleveland Browns". (or any other team, for that matter)
Gase is such an unknown that it's scary.
Man, I just don't know. I just pray that these guys get this decision right, because if they don't, it's going to be a complete disaster.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,111
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,111 |
Quote:
Quote:
Tell me.............how did they get us into this mess?
For the draft we are set up beautifully because of the work Lombardi and Banner did last off-season. One of the things they did to set us up beautifully for the draft was hiring a dud of a head coach (according to them).
The current mess we are in (no coach, no inspiring candidates as of yet) is the fault of new guys. They either hired the wrong coach (which it seems like is their answer) or they fired a coach that should not have been fired. Either way they crapped the bed.
This is what concerned me from the start of Banner/Lombardi. ANY organization will take on the strengths and weaknesses of those in charge- and NFL FO's are no exception. It's only logical (It's also why smart CEO's surround themselves with smart folk of many different stripes-). I saw a "one-headed monster" when these two were appointed- and it concerned me.
This offseason seems to be a prime example of what worried me: that these two guys are really smart at working the mechanics and machinations of football- but really dumb about the Human Element.
The way this FO set us up for 2014 was nothing short of impressive. No other team in the NFL is better set-up for this offseason than the Cleveland Browns. Prime scenario for "The Leap" that so many Browns fans long for:
Insane number of (significant) draft pics.
A core of solid NFL caliber starters. Holes, yes- but it's NOT the team of '99 (or 2006, or even 2009).
5 Pro Bowlers anchoring both squads
A coaching staff with a full year's experience/data, just starting their first full offseason together.......
[sound FX: car tires screeching to a stop]
Ooooops.
I guess there's that little detail...
________________________
The biggest advantage this team had in this offseason over every other team was the gift of flexibility. They had options. Tons of them, to be honest. They could bundle picks and move up. They could stand pat, let multiple picks drop to them, and take scads of BPA's. They could stand pat- and afford to play on the phones all day to fill specific positions of need, if they wanted to go that way. They could parlay their 1st round spots into insane trade-downs.... basically, this FO was primed to take total ownership of the 2014 upcoming draft.
Yes... I truly believe that The Cleveland (freakking) Browns were poised to make all the big headlines on all the major media outlets after Draft Weekend.
...and it's all shot, because of the one biggest skillset of theirs that is lacking.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but THIS is what the Cleveland Browns look like to anyone who isn't a Cleveland Browns fan: These people were in charge when a HC was fired after just 11 months on the job.
People Skills.
Grade: F.
Enter "Cascade/Domino Effect."
Fired HC leads to multiple staff moves. Can they find a HC who's willing to work with Norv and Ray? Will Ray & Norv find greener pastures while the Browns dither? Will New HC bring on his own staff? Will there be a scheme/philosophy switch with the new HC? New OC? New DC? 3-4? 4-3? WCO? Read Option?
And now, the thing that they are worst at is going to have a significant impact on how well they are able to do the thing they are best at.... work the offseason like Moneyballers.
How can this FO even think about setting a draft board at this time? When they don't even know the coaching staff they'll be supplying? Or what O or D system will be put in place?
You see my point, I'm sure: This triumvirate screwed the pooch the minute they fired their HC.
________________
Right now, Job #1 is establishing a coaching staff. You can't move on anything else, until you know who you've got- and what they want to do. Every other decision hinges upon this... especially draft pics.
Draft = 0.
Meanwhile, the rest of the AFCN continues to build upon what they have. 
Browns are in worse shape than most fans want to acknowledge.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,126
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,126 |
Quote:
They did make a mistake. Either in firing him or by hiring him.
For that one move, we should call them stooges and buffoons?
Yes. It's a pretty big mistake. In one move they turned this organization into the laughing stock of the league. No respectable coach is going to come here. In the end, they'll have to settle for another subpar head coach. How does that make us better off? You can give the stooges a free pass if you want. The rest of us will expect accountability.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,750
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,750 |
Quote:
Quote:
because once again, we are being treated like our organization doesn't matter.
i hate when our team gets disrespected. i dunno about you, but i love my team.
Okay, but I don't care what the media says about the Browns. Respect? Alternating between 4-12 and 5-11 seasons isn't going to earn you much respect. Just win the football games.
If we've learned anything about this new owner, 4-12 and 5-11 isn't going to be sufficient to keep your job.
I think that Haslam should make the next contract with a HC a conditional one. Win 4 or 5 games and you will be fired. You won't get another season and you won't get paid another dime. Win 6 or 7 games and you get another season. Win 8 or more and you get bonuses and two additional seasons. Make the playoffs and you get a bonus equal to 50% of your salary in addition to the other bonuses and you get a 5-year contract extension at the 50% increase in pay being the new base with the same conditions. Each successive year would have the same conditions as the previous (extension years being exceptions).
Incentive-laden the contracts of the coaches as well. No more multi-year payouts for non-producing coaches. The only 'guaranteed' year would be the first.
I understand the emotion, but the team would be lucky to hire a HS coach to a contract with terms like that.
As for this disrespect talk...you guys really care about that?
Pfft...what some guy at a hack website or rag paper thinks doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
We are doing what haslam said we were going to do. We are searching for the right guy and until we talk to everybody, we aren't going to make a move. Yep, some guys are going to get hired and make it look like nobody wants the job and we can't find a coach.
I don't think that is the case.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
They did make a mistake. Either in firing him or by hiring him.
For that one move, we should call them stooges and buffoons?
Yes. It's a pretty big mistake. In one move they turned this organization into the laughing stock of the league. No respectable coach is going to come here. In the end, they'll have to settle for another subpar head coach. How does that make us better off? You can give the stooges a free pass if you want. The rest of us will expect accountability.
Turned it into a laughingstock? Have you been paying attention for the past decade or so?
Accountability to whom? The owner made the decision to fire Chudzinski. Who is he accountable to? Put your billion down and you can talk about it. Furthermore, who was Chudzinski going to be accountable to in your scenario, whether it was one year or two... or ten?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
because once again, we are being treated like our organization doesn't matter.
i hate when our team gets disrespected. i dunno about you, but i love my team.
Okay, but I don't care what the media says about the Browns. Respect? Alternating between 4-12 and 5-11 seasons isn't going to earn you much respect. Just win the football games.
If we've learned anything about this new owner, 4-12 and 5-11 isn't going to be sufficient to keep your job.
I think that Haslam should make the next contract with a HC a conditional one. Win 4 or 5 games and you will be fired. You won't get another season and you won't get paid another dime. Win 6 or 7 games and you get another season. Win 8 or more and you get bonuses and two additional seasons. Make the playoffs and you get a bonus equal to 50% of your salary in addition to the other bonuses and you get a 5-year contract extension at the 50% increase in pay being the new base with the same conditions. Each successive year would have the same conditions as the previous (extension years being exceptions).
Incentive-laden the contracts of the coaches as well. No more multi-year payouts for non-producing coaches. The only 'guaranteed' year would be the first.
I understand the emotion, but the team would be lucky to hire a HS coach to a contract with terms like that.
As for this disrespect talk...you guys really care about that?
Pfft...what some guy at a hack website or rag paper thinks doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
We are doing what haslam said we were going to do. We are searching for the right guy and until we talk to everybody, we aren't going to make a move. Yep, some guys are going to get hired and make it look like nobody wants the job and we can't find a coach.
I don't think that is the case.
I agree with you about the part about the head coaching search and the 'disrespect' portion.
As for not getting anything but HS coaches to sign up for that kind of contract terms, I don't know. Other than the guaranteed first year portion of the contract, why wouldn't they. Oh, I guess I didn't state that I meant that the 'extended years', if applicable, would become 'guaranteed'. It would be rewarding performance. Besides, we've been hiring guys that aren't competent enough to be HS coaches for the job. Why not delve into the HS ranks? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,750
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,750 |
I don't know of any coach who signs a 1 year deal, and no matter how you want to color it, that would be a 1 year deal.
Again, I wouldn't mind if it was done that way. If we can find a decent coach who would work under those parameters, great. I just don't think we will find one.
Former baseball manager Walter Alston of the Dodgers was about the only big time team manager/coach that worked under 1 year contracts. He had 23 of them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 |
Quote:
We are searching for the right guy ...
What about the seemingly forgotten man...Horton? Could he not be a potential candidate for HC? He is at least as impressive as anybody left out there IMO...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,837
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,837 |
Cleveland Browns interviewed Mike Munchak, but Broncos OC Adam Gase plans to talk to them, per report Print Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on January 13, 2014 at 10:29 PM, updated January 14, 2014 at 7:09 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns are definitely keeping their coaching search on a low simmer until they can interview Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase, two sources told the Denver Post Monday. What's more, Gase is expected to go through with the Browns interview as soon he's out of the playoffs, the Post reports. He'll face the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game Sunday in Denver, and will be available to interview as early as that night or the following day if the Broncos lose. If they advance to the Super Bowl Feb. 2, Gase most likely won't meet with the Browns until afterwards. He told the Browns and Vikings he'd wait until the Broncos were eliminated to interview. It's not yet known if he'll talk to the Vikings. Meanwhile, the Browns are keeping busy until they can meet with Gase, 35, who's widely regarded as their top target. They spent Monday in Tennessee interviewing fired Titans coach Mike Munchak, and might've still been in been in town for the dinnertime announcement that one of their other candidates, Ken Whisenhunt, took over for Munchak, who was fired Jan. 4. Whisenhunt, who interviewed with the Browns on Saturday, surprised most folks in the NFL by taking the Titans job instead of the Lions vacancy. So hot on his trail were the Lions that they had a private jet ready to pick him up in San Diego until he called it off, according to multiple reports. Although the Browns are now virtually assured an interview with Gase, 35, they better have a backup plan. Sources have told cleveland.com that Gase loves his job in Denver, and might be better served by sticking it out one more year in Denver with Peyton Manning, who threw for a career-high 55 TD passes and 5,477 yards this season. The Browns undoubtedly became enamored with Gase because of Browns owner Jimmy Haslam's close friendship with Manning, dating back to Manning's days at the University of Tennessee. Manning has enjoyed a career year in Gase's first season as coordinator, and even singled out Gase for his gutsy call on 3rd and 17 that helped the Broncos seal their 24-17 victory over the Chargers Sunday in the divisional round. Targeting a soft spot in the Chargers' zone defense, Gase called for a pass to Julius Thomas, who caught the 21-yarder to help the Broncos run down the clock. “Great play call by Adam,” said Broncos quarterback Peyton Manning. “Really was a great play call.” With Manning expected to return to Denver for the 2014 season, Gase might decide to stay with him, get one more year as a coordinator under his belt and then strike out after next season. Haslam and Browns CEO Joe Banner will have to convince Gase and his agent, Bob LaMonte, that he'll have some job security after LaMonte's client Pat Shurmur was fired after two seasons and Rob Chudzinski was fired after one. If the Browns don't land Gase, they also like Seattle defensive coordinator Dan Quinn, Packers quarterbacks coach Ben McAdoo, and Munchak. They'll also likely interview other candidates if Gase turns them down. ESPN reported Monday that Munchak is still an option for both the Browns and Lions, who were left at the altar Monday. NFL Network also reported that Munchak is a finalist for the Lions job. He told the Detroit Free Press he had a "great interview'' with the Lions last week. Munchak, 53, was fired by the Titans after refusing to make sweeping changes in his coaching staff -- including firing both of his coordinators. The Titans even offered Munchak a contract extension, but he refused. He went 22-26 in his three seasons as head coach, including 7-9 in 2013. The Titans have failed to make the playoffs since 2008, and haven't won a playoff game since 2003. They lost five straight at home this season and eight of 10 overall at one point. Losing starting quarterback Jake Locker to a foot injury didn't help, but quarterback issues often don't spare the ax, as Chudzinski discovered. “I can’t fire someone when I don’t believe they should be fired,'' Munchak told the Tennessean the day after he was fired. "Firing someone is awful. Too many people were going to be affected. "I didn’t do anything to look like I was a great, loyal guy who went above and beyond the call of duty by not firing coaches. I did what you should do and what I thought was right. For me to maintain a job and a lot of guys lose jobs on a plan I didn’t think was right, I couldn’t do that.” “I’ll make tough decisions, but not if they’re not right.” Munchak, a Hall of Fame guard from the Oilers/Titans, had spent 31 years with the organization as a coach and player, including 14 seasons as offensive line coach before replacing Jeff Fisher as head coach. He had only one winning season, a 9-7 campaign in 2011. He also interviewed for the Texans offensive line job and the Penn State head job before it went to Vanderbilt's James Franklin. “I know a lot of people might not have been happy if I was back,'' he said. "But I had a plan, and I believed it was going to work. I wanted to be here. I have been here for over 30 years. These jobs are hard to come by. I know the chance of me being a head coach again in the NFL aren’t that great. Most guys get one shot at it. But I wanted to do it with the right people, and do it the right way. “The way they wanted to adjust the staff vs. me wasn’t going to work. So we disagreed on it.” With Whisenhunt off to Tennessee, three vacancies remain: the Browns, Lions and Vikings. In addition to Munchak, the Lions reportedly like Ravens offensive coordinator Jim Caldwell, while Bengals defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer is reportedly the frontrunner for the Vikings job. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/01/cleveland_browns_interviewed_e.html Of the guys we have interviewed so far, Bowles tops my list. I do find what I have been reading about Gase intriguing. See the article I posted earlier in this thread.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,290
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,290 |
j/c
I'm going to qualify this post by saying I am not happy about what has happened here...whether that concerns where we fired Chud after one year OR that we hired him in the first place.
Let's pretend for a minute that he WASN'T fired. What would we be talking about?
He led this team to 7 straight losses...and we lost 10 of the last 11. I'd expect that we would lament the string of losses...the abandoning of the running game...and the defensive collapses at the end of games...the special teams fails. Someone would then start questioning this coaching staffs.
Then the McGahee thread would have gotten more legs and grown more toxic.
Eventually the story would come out - as it now has - that Chud was determined to ignore Lombardi's choice at QB and continue down the path of Weeden...and we'd be pissed.
Someone would point to the stubbornness of continuing to throw Little and Bess out there to drop passes when not playing hide-n-seek.
I could go on, but you get the point.
There was precious little about the effectiveness of our "schemes" to trump up. There would be much concern regarding whether Chud is the right guy.
We'd be excited about Gordon and what he can be if he gets a reasonable running mate and a QB with a clue - and hope that QB is Hoyer. We'd wonder if D Bryant will get healthy, Mingo will develop, and if we can get some help where needed on D.
Our #1 concern would be whether the FO will get the draft right and not screw up the bounty of picks we collected.
I'd say our #1 priority is still the #1 priority.
I'd wonder if our issues were really players or schemes/coaches. I wouldn't be one calling for Chud's head...but I'd chime in about things I disliked that I saw. I might even say that if Chud had similar results in 2014 that he should be fired. (Please understand the context of 'similar results' as stated in the last paragraph.)
In the end, we did not make progress as the season wore on...in fact we saw the direct opposite. We did not fire a guy who had any success here.
We have a decent base of players with 5 pro bowlers, 10 draft picks in May, a ton of $ to spend, and a billionaire owner pissed about the losing - and our jilted ex-lover of a coach has 10 million dollars to seek out therapy.
I'm having a hard time getting too worked up about Chud's firing. If they waited another (failed) year to move on from Chud, I'd certainly be a lot more upset then I am right now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 293
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 293 |
Quote:
Passing on guys like Earl Thomas and taking Haden?
Seriously? Damn the previous regime for drafting an all-pro corner!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,643 |
Quote:
j/c
Let's pretend for a minute that he WASN'T fired. What would we be talking about?
the playoffs and the draft
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693 |
Quote:
Tell me.............how did they get us into this mess?
Are you forgetting the drafting of Weeden?
How about trading up for TRich?
Schwartz?
Hadesty?
Cutting Mike Adams for Young?
The great Jamie Mitchell?
Passing on guys like Earl Thomas and taking Haden?
Not going after free agents who could help the team?
But wait................the new guys get better picks in a stronger draft and trade a dud RB for a first round choice and then fire a coach who was 1 and 10 down the stretch AND had a worse record than the idiot Shurmur....................and THEY got us into this mess?
Just stop!
You guys are making crap up w/out facts to support your rants.
This so reminds me of when the idiots hated on Belichick. The guy is an idiot. He is a loser. He will never win. He is clueless. He is making a mockery of the Cleveland Browns.
Yeah, good call guys. He will probably go down as the greatest coach of all-time.
Past regimes have done plenty to contribute to the mess, and nothing is forgotten. Trotting out mistakes made by past FO's to make the point that you support the current FO is ridiculous. And FYI, it's clearly on record that I was anti-Homgren from the very beginning.
Trading T-Rich looks like a brilliant move at this stage, so they got one right. Maybe. Severely depends on what they do with the pick, doesn't it?
"The new guys get better picks in a stronger draft..." What the hell does that mean? What and who are you referring to? Shouldn't they get better picks in a stronger draft? Are you referring to Mingo? The jury is still out. McFadden? Better than what, John Hughes? Travis Benjamin? Hardly. Slaughter better than Billy Winn? Are you forgetting Gordon? Comparing drafts is just silly.
What about keeping Weeden in the first place? If you're going use drafting as a measuring stick you can't say hindsight is 20/20 because according to the draft theory, everyone should know beforehand whether they were busts or not. At least in Weeden's second year, they knew he pretty much sucked going in.
So forget all that. What about manipulating the entire bottom end of the roster to no effect other than wreaking havoc on special teams?
What about cutting Rainey to promote Gurley even though we had no running game at all? How about not getting a FB even though our O-line couldn't or wouldn't open holes and our aging RB needed all the help he could get?
Or what about bringing in Dez Bryant with a known and severe medical condition? Granted, he's a hell of a player when he's on the field but is useless when he's in the clinic.
What about the Bess fiasco? How stupid does that look now? Bad enough he flat out couldn't catch, he was a head case on top of it. Nice due diligence by a brilliant FO.
How about spending $40M on an average pass rusher? But not spending cap money to bring in more talent in needed areas, like CB, safety or the O-line?
What about hiring Chud in the first place if he was clearly a bust? But most importantly, how about firing your entire coaching staff after one year, even though the known plan was to build for 2014? How about making a move that makes FO look like complete idiots, and the entire organization look like more of a joke than it ever has? How about being seen as the most undesirable coaching gig in the NFL, where most truly legitimate coaching contenders will never step foot? How about being perceived by many as being a little man tyrant, or a buffoon and a backstabbing liar, or a criminal?
All they had to do was hold their water for one more year. See if they could turn it around with an influx of talent and a second year in the TWO BRAND NEW SYSTEMS. See what would happen with consistent QB play, some receivers who could catch, a running game, an improved secondary, and an O-line that wanted to block every game, not just some of the games. But no, they couldn't do that because they're smarter than everybody else. Who cares if they look like complete morons in the eyes of the world because they're getting the real coach want. Except, oh wait, they're not because NOBODY WANTS TO COME HERE BECAUSE THIS ORGANIZATION IS A JOKE! Run by Stooges. Perception is reality, pal.
By the way, I liked Belichick, still do, (maybe not everything he's done, but I wish he never left,) so stuff that crap. Don't bother replying. I really don't care what you think about any of it, or your holier than thou attitude. Have a nice day.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Well one thing I do know this is in no way Heckerts fault. Actually some of the variables being listed as us being an attractive place to be is our young foundation of talent and our NFL best Cap Space for FA filling.
Wisenhunt is gone probably the best candidate...NEXT!
Good HC candidates have more than one suitor...our Stability factor or lack of it is a big variable in their decisions. So we are limited.
We interviewed Muchunk and McAdoo both are available I'm sure they are available to have a 2nd interview and the Signing as our HC if they are our first choice.
This leaves us Gase n the DC of Seahawks...College I think we can forget about college due to the Stability factor.
We haven't interviewed either I don't think...I think Gase is our guy...tough nut to call cause so much of his success is connected with Manning. Haslam, Banner Lombardi are not football guys to get the right feel...although football guys have made the mistakes also.
I'm hoping for Gase now cause he seems to have the possible upside of being a Super Star which we need. I hope he has a staff in his book and keep in mind the hire might be a long ways away so that a lot of OC DC candidates are taken care of with 2014 contracts so we might have interim Coordinators.
Lie, Buffoon, Stooges...all emotional responses and pretty much understood. One thing I still have a bitter taste in my mouth was the recognition of what this organization needed most and that was continuity and stability. We were told that they were changing things up cause they wanted that continuity to be with their guys not inherited...Understood. When they signed Chud they announce that they had their future and long term solution in place...we all know they said this in possibly different vocabulary but they said it and implied it...then the Fire. That is the bitterness with most fans. Most people involved with the NFL in their distrust in working for this organization and possibly the players...FA signings and new contracts for good players we have to overcome.
Winning is the cure all!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
OK, so if we could be waiting til February to interview Gase (can you imagine the Broncos being in the SB & then him saying he's not interested in talking w/ us? ), I sure hope we can get a slew of other interviews going in the mean time. Guys that haven't even been mentioned. Also, I see the Vikings are also interested in Gase. They've also had 2 interviews w/ Mike Zimmer. If they hired Zimmer w/out waiting til Gase was finished for the season are there any teams left other than us in need of a coach? I've lost track. Lastly. What does everyone think of Zimmer? He's always seemed appealing to me. I have always valued bringing the discipline & motivation over an offensive or defensive mind.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Yep, Lions are still in the coaching hunt.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I don't care who the HC is and what his qualifications are.
Until we get at least GOOD QB play. It won't matter.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Quote:
I don't care who the HC is and what his qualifications are.
Until we get at least GOOD QB play. It won't matter.
I agree 100%.
We've tried guys with head coaching experience. We've tried guys who have never been head coaches. But we really haven't tried having a good QB who can have sustained success.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Whomever comes in and actually coaches when we have a QB that's good will be hailed as a genius and a great coach. Even if he does nothing different then the last few guys.
People thought Wisenhunt was going to Detroit. Because they have Stafford.
If you have a QB. You can compete. If you don't. You're looking for one.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
Yep, Lions are still in the coaching hunt.
Duuuhhh, not sure how I forgot that.
But, from what I've read, their top 2 are Caldwell & Munchak.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,007
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,007 |
Quote:
because once again, we are being treated like our organization doesn't matter.
i hate when our team gets disrespected. i dunno about you, but i love my team.
Or they could be saying that Whisenhut wasn't in our plans anyway but he was in Detroits plans so they got hurt in the deal.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
Wikipedia says we have our coach already  
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Quote:
Wikipedia says we have our coach already
I wonder if Adam knows.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,656 |
J/C
Suppose the Broncos do go to the Super Bowl and the Browns do interview Gase. I can just imagine the fallout if he doesn't get the job. It could seriously happen that the Browns interview him and decide he's not the best candidate, thus hiring one of the other candidates. If that happens there will be such an uproar. I
Here's the gist of what we might hear from all different corners of the board:
1. It will be argued that Gase turned the Browns down and the Browns are just trying to save face.
2. Some will complain, "If you were going to hire Coach X, why didn't you hire him in the first place?"
3. Look at all the time they lost by waiting and NOT hiring this guy.
4. We had to "settle"
There will be others, I'm sure. I guess by waiting on Gase, they are hedging their bets, hoping he'll be the one. If he's not, and they hire who they truly feel is the best after the interview process, then I'm okay with it. What I don't want is for them to wait for Gase and then hire him because, "Well we waited this long, now we have to hire him."
This is one of the reasons I wouldn't wait to hire my coach if I were in charge. I respect that he wants to focus on his playoff run, but I have an off-season to prepare for and every day w/out a head coach is a day behind, in my opinion. I would ask him (or any other candidate) to interview within the time windows allowed by the league. If he said, "No," I'd move on. They only way I'd wait would be if the other interviewees were absolutely not right for what I was looking for and interviews took that long to complete.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum HC search part deuce
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/PortlandDawg/banner.jpg)
