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He did perform well. LIke I said... I think he should be drafted. I think he should go high 2nd but not high 1st.
I guess I"m looking at it from the perspective of... This is where he is today and this is what he would compare to in the NFL.
IF
he fixes his inconsistencies... he could be really really good.
He could also fall apart.
It really depends on his mental strength when he isn't placing the ball where he wants to while learning how to get more consistency out of his throwing motion/footwork.
He is very young and that is also appealing.
Well ANY QB could just fall apart. Personally, I have the feeling that the QB flop in this draft is going to be Bortles. All his balls seem to float too much.
The guy might have a different throwing motion but its not affecting the quickness of the throw post-snap (ie. a wind up), the power he looks to have on it, or the accuracy. So the question is....if it aint broke, why fix it?
the main reason he needs to adjust is because College always has some massive windows and he threw up a lot of 50/50 balls to DeVante Parker. (who is one of the top WR in College) You will notice that the WR has to stop, wait, or jump up to get the ball and go make a play.
He can't continue that way... He has be more consistent with his inconsistencies. His time in the pocket was usually really good. Most of his plays seem to come after 4-5 seconds. (blown coverages create these opportunities) in the NFL you have 2-3 seconds to get that baby out of there and it is extremely rare that there is a blown coverage. He does have the mental capacity to speed that up.
When you consistently throw the same way... his weaknesses will improve (deep ball accuracy needs help) and he will get better ball control, placement, and zip on his passes.
last thing to nitpick... scouts pick on him about (besides deep ball accuracy, hands size, height, frame, and durability) he also throws with a Glove and has a lower release point
I don't think the glove or height are a big deal but scouts are talking about it. The lower release point could be...
Watch Brees. He is always on his tip toes and he throws way over his helmet.
http://www.youtube.com/v/ngel-VlrgAk
Bridgewater throws with the ball next to his head. That could be a problem if he comes in at 6'1 or 6'2 vs 6'4 or 6'5. D's are really starting to Swat more passes and low release points makes it easier to knock those things down.
I'm 50/50 with you here. I did notice in that pack that there were quite a few passes that seemed high. But I also saw many that were beautifully placed either over the shoulder or hitting the man beautifully in stride. You are right though...looking at it, he does seem to get alot of time in the pocket.
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Legend
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just a note...Deeper drops is the best thing a QB can do to eliminate blocks...they don't drop back deep enough each time they hitch step they get closer n closer in most times it doesn't matter unless he does a vertical leap of 35" and throws over the top.
Yes a good QB who wishes perfection will practice throwing accurately from many different angles and just let reaction determine what was needed to get the job done.
Also more astute lateral movement creating throwing lanes can benefit the QB more...Unless the kid has a bad habit of throwing sidearm the adjustment from ear to over top is not a great one.
Adjusting a hitch in the throw is a great task. A baseball windup...dropping the arm down (pitchers fastball) actually the football throw should be akin more to the Pitcher's curveball motion (which btw is different  ) of the arm.
Point blank it all about Accuracy, Arm Strength, mobility, leadership and Ability to learn that these kids will be evaluated on. You always have that guy 20-30 slot that will skyrocket up the boards as we get closer to the draft. I don't see Teddy dropping unless something unusual happens from here til May.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I'd be interested on what you think of Bortles.
My main like with him is that he's big, meaning less likely to get injured, also tall to see over the lineman. He also seems poised in the pocket.
I want nothing to do with Manziel. Too small, too much playground ball.
The reality is that ALL of the top 4 QB's may bust. Andrew Luck is sitting at home this weekend, RG3's team is drafting ahead of us, or they would if they still owned the pick, Sam Bradford has never broken .500, Sanchez was a joke. Of the four playoff teams left, only one QB drafted in the first round.
It is a complete and total crapshoot, the one thing we CAN accomplish this year is to surround our QB with some legit talent on both sides of the ball. Whether it's Hoyer, a rook, or a FA, unless we find the super-secret lab where they are cloning Peyton Manning, we can get enough supporting talent to make a decent QB look pretty good.
I'll work on it... it'll take me a few days  I'm not an expert by any means... its just stuff that I've learned in the past 2 years with coaches and what they are now teaching at pop warner level.
The thing I like about Bortles the most is how well he throws on the run, especially for a big guy...
All the reading defenses, progressions, etc... I dunno. There are some condensed versions of some of his games on youtube, but that's stuff that's really hard to tell.
If this guy is smart about football, he could really be something. I think he has a lot of room for development, including with this body.
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Manzel has Evans, Bridgewater has Parker... good for them. To suggest that they did not have a great receivers is misleading.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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j/c Here is an interesting spin. Everyone links Lombardi to Belichick. Now that O'Brien is Head Coach. Latest rumor... Texans could take Clowney AND trade for Ryan Mallett Quote:
Perhaps the Houston Texans will be starting a quarterback in 2014 that was acquired via something other than a first round pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.
Rumors swirling around the NFL, speculation that has made its way to Cleveland sports talk radio, are claiming that the Houston Texans, currently in possession of the first overall pick in the upcoming draft, could be interested in New England Patriots backup quarterback Ryan Mallett. Mallett, who has also been linked by some with the Cleveland Browns, could cost Houston a second round pick.
The Texans, a franchise that hasn't at all been shy about the fact that they are open to shopping their first round pick, will have to choose one of several options and likely do so before the start of free agency on March 11. Houston could hold onto the first pick and take one of three quarterbacks – Teddy Bridgewater out of Louisville, UCF's Blake Bortles, or Texas A&M phenom Johnny Manziel – or the Texans could grab defensive end Jadeveon Clowney.
Clowney's draft stock, which is already high, could skyrocket once he works out for NFL clubs next month. Texans owner Bob McNair offered high praise regarding the defensive prospect, saying the following earlier this week:
“He is a remarkable player. He's one of these players that is really a once-in-every-10-years kind of physical specimen that comes along. Mario Williams was that way. I think Clowney is actually a better athlete than Mario, so that kind of tells you what kind of player he can be.”
“Like many of these fellows who have these great physical attributes, they didn't have to work as hard in junior high school, in high school, and in college, to be a superlative athlete, because they had this natural ability.”
Houston trading down could prove to be risky business if the club wants Clowney. The St. Louis Rams hold the second overall pick, and several mock drafts that have been published over the past month have had the Rams taking the DE if he is on the board.
The Texans could fill two gaps by drafting Clowney first overall and then trading for Mallett. The 25-year old who was taken by the Patriots in the third round of the 2011 NFL Draft has spent three seasons learning under future Hall of Fame QB Tom Brady. Mallett is listed at 6'6'' and 245 pounds, and there are knowledgeable football people who believe that he has the goods to star on Sundays.
Houston going this route would have a massive impact on the draft. It would leave the three top QB prospects on the board when the Rams, who aren't expected to take a quarterback and could also be willing to trade down, are called to the podium. St. Louis taking offensive tackle Jake Matthews would not be a surprise regardless of what the Texans do, meaning that the Jacksonville Jaguars, sitting at third overall in the draft, could have their pick of QBs.
And what of the Browns? Cleveland certainly needs a quarterback, and there are fans of the franchise out there who want the team to trade up to No. 1 overall in the draft in order to snag the young man known as Johnny Football. ESPN NFL Draft guru Mel Kiper Jr. is, in mid-January, predicting that the Texans will take Manziel this May.
Not everybody is convinced.
Rumors and teams utilizing gamesmanship through public comments are commonplace this time of year for teams that aren't prepping for conference championship games. You can now add “Clowney and Mallett to the Texans” to a list that is only going to grow and grow over the next two months.
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Legend
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Hard to believe Houston would give up the 33rd pick in the draft for a guy drafted in the 3rd round who has exactly 4 pass attempts as a pro (1 completion, 1 Int, 5.2 QBR).
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Hard to believe Houston would give up the 33rd pick in the draft for a guy drafted in the 3rd round who has exactly 4 pass attempts as a pro (1 completion, 1 Int, 5.2 QBR).
Lot to be said for a QB who sits with a clipboard watching a HOF QB. Hoyer is a good example. Castle never amounted to a franchise QB, but he did start a couple of years. Both Hoyer and Mallet are much higher grade than Castle. If you recall, Mallet had athletic skills but off field issues. Mallet could have easily been a first or second.
One thing we maybe overlooking is Cleveland can be blowing smoke. It is not like them to show their hand before the draft.
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Hard to believe Houston would give up the 33rd pick in the draft for a guy drafted in the 3rd round who has exactly 4 pass attempts as a pro (1 completion, 1 Int, 5.2 QBR).
Lot to be said for a QB who sits with a clipboard watching a HOF QB. Hoyer is a good example. Castle never amounted to a franchise QB, but he did start a couple of years. Both Hoyer and Mallet are much higher grade than Castle. If you recall, Mallet had athletic skills but off field issues. Mallet could have easily been a first or second.
One thing we maybe overlooking is Cleveland can be blowing smoke. It is not like them to show their hand before the draft.
I'm with Dave on this one, and have mentioned it at least once before. Mallet has done nothing in this league to improve his stock from his draft grade (3rd). Personally, I would not go higher than a 4th. Doesn't matter where he *could* have been drafted, he was drafted in the 3rd. And has done really nothing, either good or bad, since joining the league.
Sitting in Belly-ache's aura and watching Brady doesn't automatically improve someone.
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Bozo's are especially funny this time of year...lol 
, and there are fans of the franchise out there who want the team to trade up to No. 1 overall in the draft in order to snag the young man known as Johnny Football.
Really? I've read and spoke to several Browns fans who like Johnny Football, I know I've been pimping him since Oct? But I know I haven't and don't remember any Browns fan that I know of who wants us to trade up to Overall # 1 to make the pick 
Where do they get this garbage!!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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2nd String
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Are Horton and Turner still currently our coordinators?
I don't see either back next year! Losing Horton is a Big Mistake, Turner I'm happy to see go! Without naming a new H/C all the assistants have to move to another team to have a job! Browns have to just Name Somebody Already!!! JMHO Go Brownies!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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Hard to believe Houston would give up the 33rd pick in the draft for a guy drafted in the 3rd round who has exactly 4 pass attempts as a pro (1 completion, 1 Int, 5.2 QBR).
If they like him that much and believe he's starter quality, why not?
He's already got a few years sitting and watching under pretty much the same offensive system. I'm not a big believe that guys have "to sit and learn" like all the old school fans think, but this would give him a head up.
Hey, I'm all for us trading for him, if they think he can be the guy. I don't care where we get him from, as long as he's good. It doesn't matter to me.
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All Pro
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j/c
Take the 2 best receivers in #1 round. thats how you build a team, build it one step at time.
the best RB in the second round-not the right thing, but we NEED a RB-i vote for carlos hyde, or any beast RB who can put a game away in the final 5 mins of a game.
and hope we get a gem like Russell Wilson in 3-4 or a solid safety. Like backup QB for OSU or similiar, we may even get him as a UDFA. Then we ONLY need the QB in 2014.
Having said that, if we can get the QB this year i want QB. But not at any expense like trading a one and two for example.
and resign all my free agents that i want.
if we cant get the guys we want, i want the best skilled players on O. To build for the next year. Thats how you do it.
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All Pro
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Manzel has Evans, Bridgewater has Parker... good for them. To suggest that they did not have a great receivers is misleading.
Yes - i watched the game Carr played in. It was clear he had a had a fantastic receiver who made him look rather than him being great and throwing to average receivers who HE made look good. What
i took away from that game was- I want his receiver!
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thats how you build a team
No offense, but taking two WRs in the first round, a RB in the second, and "hoping" for a qb in the 3rd or 4th round is the antithesis of how to build a team.
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thats how you build a team
No offense, but taking two WRs in the first round, a RB in the second, and "hoping" for a qb in the 3rd or 4th round is the antithesis of how to build a team.
Unless you're Matt Millen?
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Manzel has Evans, Bridgewater has Parker... good for them. To suggest that they did not have a great receivers is misleading.
Yes - i watched the game Carr played in. It was clear he had a had a fantastic receiver who made him look rather than him being great and throwing to average receivers who HE made look good. What
i took away from that game was- I want his receiver!
Davante Adams is really good. I like him. My one concern is that he's willing to give up yards trying to make a move on the DB.
Derek Carr had 3 1000+ receivers this year.
Davante Adams: 131 receptions, 1718 yards, 24 TDs
Isaiah Burse: 99 receptions, 1026 yards, 6 TDs
Josh Harper: 79 receptions, 1011 yards, 13 TDs
Isaiah Burse is a lazy route-runner and just stops at the end of his route. If he is covered he just shuts down on the play. Dion Bailey completely ate his lunch in the bowl game. He doesn't block, either, which is bad when your running game is WR screens. Josh Harper is average (and when I say average here, I mean college football average, not NFL prospect average) at best.
Carr and Adams was far from a Weeden/Blackmon situation. I can understand the hesitation to like a QB that has a good receiver, but that's not what was going on at Fresno State.
I saw some comments after the Bowl Game vs. USC that Carr is a "Coward." I'm not sure what that's about. I just finished that game this weekend. He injured either his collarbone of his left shoulder on the 11th passing play (1st quarter, 3rd drive) and played the rest of the game. They showed him again on the bench in pain later in the game.
What I will say about Carr is that his touch was really spotty in the game vs. USC. His first pass of the game, saw a double DB blitz from the right side pre-snap and calmly flicked a *perfect* over-the-shoulder completion to Adams on the left sideline.
Later in the game, he sailed two or three passes that were way off. I don't know if it had to do with his shoulder or collarbone hurting or if they were just bad throws. It seemed like the harder he threw it, the more accurate he was. He threw some absolutely stunning out routes and comebacks. He showed good anticipation frequently throwing before the receiver made their breaks. One time he anticipated incorrectly and the pass went awry. That's a risk with anticipation, but he showed that he does it and usually with very good accuracy. But then, when he had a pass he had to put some air under, he'd miss it pretty bad. I think it was three bad overthrows that game.
All JMO of.course. well, except for the stats.
Last edited by clevesteve; 01/20/14 11:18 AM.
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j/c
Take the 2 best receivers in #1 round. thats how you build a team, build it one step at time.
the best RB in the second round-not the right thing, but we NEED a RB-i vote for carlos hyde, or any beast RB who can put a game away in the final 5 mins of a game.
and hope we get a gem like Russell Wilson in 3-4 or a solid safety. Like backup QB for OSU or similiar, we may even get him as a UDFA. Then we ONLY need the QB in 2014.
Having said that, if we can get the QB this year i want QB. But not at any expense like trading a one and two for example.
and resign all my free agents that i want.
if we cant get the guys we want, i want the best skilled players on O. To build for the next year. Thats how you do it.
I should have stopped reading when I read Carlos Hyde because I knew the Buckeye bias was strong. Then I saw him suggesting we draft Kenny Guiton and all I could do was shake my head.
Then I saw this.
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To build for the next year. Thats how you do it.
You're talking about 2015 already? I cannot accept that.
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lets say all the QB's are gone, you wouldn't take a stap at Guilton with a 4th round pick?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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lets say all the QB's are gone, you wouldn't take a stap at Guilton with a 4th round pick?
I don't know about BpG, but I wouldn't. There are probably 10 QBs I'd take before Guiton and I don't think Guiton will even get drafted. JMO though.
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lets say all the QB's are gone, you wouldn't take a stap at Guilton with a 4th round pick?
Way too high for a guy who has thrown less than 150 passes in his entire college career. If they like him at his pro day, maybe he's a 5th or 6th tops but that's only because he is a QB. Most likely he will go undrafted.
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Wouldn't mind seeing him as a project type who's buried on the bench. 6'3" and can run and throw? Can't rule him out entirely. I know this probably points the finger more at Braxton than Guiton, but when Kenny G was in, the passing offense was far better.
I agree that 4th probably too high. But with your last pick? Why not? It's a guy that's probably going to get cut anyway. Take a shot. I want every single QB that is eligible to be looked at by this organization. All of them.
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all i saying is, we used a #6 overall on a project, but all of a sudden, a 4th round pick on a QB project is too much?
sorry if i'm not following any of you guys in this.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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IMO he's just not that good. I'd rather have Morris, Pachall, or Rettig over Guyton, and they might not even get drafted. I don't really see what the point of burning a 4th round pick on a player that isn't going to play when there are lots of other good players that can help us available there... especially if there are guys you like better at his position you can get later than the 4th.
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all i saying is, we used a #6 overall on a project, but all of a sudden, a 4th round pick on a QB project is too much?
sorry if i'm not following any of you guys in this.
I think expectations for a 4th round pick are a little different vs the 6th round guy.
It all depends on what you think of Guiton, or whoever you take. There may be other project type QB's in R6 if that's what you're looking for.
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~ Legend
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To build for the next year. Thats how you do it.
You're talking about 2015 already? I cannot accept that.
Never too early to start planning out your dynasty
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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good point as well. i just figured a 4th or 5th would be a good point. at least be kinda a ohio bred QB from ohio state. hell, knowing our track record, he might even play 
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Another one just for fun...
1a Johnny Manziel QB Texas A&M
1b Jordan Matthews WR Vanderbilt
2 Austin Sefarian-Jenkins TE Washington
3a Gabe Jackson OG Miss State
3b Shayne Skov ILB Stanford
4a Terrance West RB Towson
4b Dion Bailey S USC
5 Preston Brown ILB Louisville
6 Corey Linsley C/OG Ohio State
7 Chandler Jones WR San Jose St
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Dawg Talker
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OP
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Scenario #2
Teddy goes #1
What are you willing to give up, what will close the deal with the Rams, to get Johnny Football? The most you will give up?
I'll try this one last time.
My response was, our two firsts and a fourth.
MAX!
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St. Louis is sitting waiting to see whats coming in.
St. Louis can probably trade with:
Raiders
Vikings
Browns
Bucs
Jets
And, maybe as many as three others.
If somebody is willing to give up a first next year, in addition to swapping this year, then...
Our deal is beaten.
This could get expensive.
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Legend
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jc http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...ading-no-3-pick Jacksonville Jaguars general manager David Caldwell wouldn't take an overt stance like the team's owner, Shad Khan, did last week on their chances of drafting a quarterback. 2014 NFL Draft Mock drafts: » Jeremiah: Clowney goes No. 1 to Texans » Brooks: Browns load up on skill players » Davis: Manziel lands with Jaguars » Smith: Bridgewater to Browns Draft coverage: » Official list of underclassmen eligible for draft » Jeremiah's top 50 draft prospects » Brandt: Manziel is No. 1 prospect in 2014 draft » Brooks: Draft's top 5 at each position » College Football 24/7 Podcast: Latest draft buzz Video: » Putting teams on the clock » Biggest question marks in mock drafts "We're going through the process now," Caldwell said Thursday at a Jaguars Fan Forum, per The Florida Times-Union. Caldwell did let on that his team tentatively has narrowed down whom it might target with the No. 3 overall pick. "There's a consensus here," he said, per the Jaguars' official website. "We have a good idea who our top-five guys might be, but that's going to differ from team to team. It's hard to get a consensus among your own building, and the whole league." Caldwell said the Jags also would consider trading down if the opportunity presented itself. "We would not discourage that at all," Caldwell said. "I think it's a possibility, but it's so early in the process. There are going to be guys who are going to be weeded out. Some may have injury issues. Some may have other issues. Everyone thinks they're going to be a top-10 pick and now they're not even going to be in the conversation. "Then there will be guys that rise, (players) who have a great week at the combine." The current three top-rated quarterbacks most likely to be linked to the Jaguars are Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles. Sitting at No. 3, the Jags will have a shot at one of those men, if Caldwell eventually decides quarterback is the way to go early in the draft.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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2nd String
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 330 |
I wouldn't trade up for any QB. I wouldn't take any of them at 4 if we don't love them either. If we love them then draft them but don't take a QB at 4 just to take a QB at 4.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
The current three top-rated quarterbacks most likely to be linked to the Jaguars are Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles. Sitting at No. 3, the Jags will have a shot at one of those men, if Caldwell eventually decides quarterback is the way to go early in the draft.
I bet this is music to Caldwell's ears. I bet Bradley told him he wants Carr after the senior bowl.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
The current three top-rated quarterbacks most likely to be linked to the Jaguars are Johnny Manziel, Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles. Sitting at No. 3, the Jags will have a shot at one of those men, if Caldwell eventually decides quarterback is the way to go early in the draft.
I bet this is music to Caldwell's ears. I bet Bradley told him he wants Carr after the senior bowl.
with no pass rush. I just don't see what you do in Carr. I tried to watch the Utah State game with a fresh outlook on him and I still see him floating the mid-range throws and terrible feet and pocket presence under any type of pass rush.
http://www.youtube.com/v/fJzKFuKupbM
#gmstrong
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
And...
He gets rattled. Under pressure and when things get tight.
He throws interceptions that can't be explained.
He will completely lose focus in big moments.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
jc
i'm not good on evaluating QB's, but watching that game agains Utah, Carr just looks like weeden to me.
hell, not even 5 minutes into the video i already counted 5-6 times Carr threw the ball high, leaving his WR to get murdered, when if he would've threw a good pass, we're talking good YAC.
i want no part of that.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069
Dawg Talker
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OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,069 |
Hey, its possible.
What if Clowney is there at #4 and the Falcons really wanted him?
So, we trade out and we are at 6
What if someone sees the opportunity to get a franchise left tackle, or possibly Sammy at #6?
We trade out of #6
We end up with a boatload of good-great players in this draft.
We are set for next years draft.
It could be the thing that turns this franchise around.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
We don't have enough roster spots for something like fourteen rookies.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
We don't have enough roster spots for something like fourteen rookies.
if the players are good enough, then there are always roster spots available IMO. the trick is finding enough rookies who are good enough to hold down a spot.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
This , and if your heavy with top 4 round picks , what is the chance of a 6th or seventh round pick making the roster any whoooo ..
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