I haven't really weighed in on the coaching search whatsoever...Been too many peeing matches and pre-determined rhetoric.
That being said...I'm encouraged by the hire of Pettine for a number of reasons. One he looks like a no nonsense guy...but a no nonsense guy in his own way. Crennel, Chud, and Shurmur weren't...Mangini was...but not in his own way. He was in a Belichick kinda way. That failed for all of them. Pettine looks like he takes no guff, and its his way. At the same time...I think his excitement for the game is palpable and it rubs off on his players. You could see it in the Bills defense this year...They played high energy and high confidence...even if they weren't playing that well. Almost a fake it til you make it.
I like Pettine because he is aggressive...and seems to understand the NFL of today. Stop the run, get to the QB, and force turnovers. That's what the Bills did when they were successful...Something we haven't done in recent years...force turnovers. We've gotten some, and I think Horton got them to last year...but not late in the year.
As for the search...We've hated on every search because they've been short lived and seemingly handpicked. Mangini, Shurmur, Crennel, and even Chud to an extent were quick hires and quick searches that weren't very expansive. This time we interviewed 10 guys before we picked a guy that we liked...and we even talked to him 3 times before hiring him...that's a good search. Yes McDaniels, Bowles, and Gase pulled their names from consideration and McAdoo interviewed and then took another job, and yes they should've given more consideration to Whisenhunt, but after interviewing him last year I think they thought they knew what theyd get. They actually put the work in on this search and did a pretty good job in my opinion. I think they worked and got the best guy that they talked to...and if someone pulls their name, they didn't want it badly enough to take the job. Pettine wants it, and wants to make it work. Lets get it.
Also...as for Chu'd firing...take a look at the statistics. I don't have the link cuz I read the article a week or two ago...but if you look at the statistics of coaches that have a bad first season...it doesn't usually bode well. Good coaches have good first years. Or at least decent first years. Look at Cleveland alone...Crennel, Mangini, Shurmur...all had bad first years...didn't improve much. Butch Davis had a decent first year (sort of...he had us at 4-2 before the wheels kinda fell off, finished at 7-9, but did go 4-4 in the division (playing the Titans twice...weird)...then made the playoffs the following year...that being said, I suppose Chud had a similar path there) and was our best coach since the return.
Look around the league...coaches that are bad in their first year don't typically trend to success. So we decided against sticking with what was bad...yes the situation wasn't ideal for Chud...and yes the team was competitive...but it happens. He lost...we moved on, and I'm good with it. If the FO wants to be on the same page as their coach and they make moves to be on the same page with their coach...cool. Lets do it. I like that Pettine has been on winning staffs. Chud came off of mediocre teams in Carolina, SD, Cleveland...Mangini too in NY, Crennel the only exception there...though he posted a good season here.
No hate to the process...didn't understand the plan...and that's what had me apprehensive from the start. but the plan is starting to show, and we have an aggressive guy running it now. Lets get it. Lets get mean
"It has to start somewhere It has to start somehow What better place than here? What better time than now?"
I guess in the win now era that could be true... a lot of very successful HC in history didn't have good first seasons. You know Knoll, Walsh, some others...but I guess in the New Era.
As for an example of Butch...he went heavily into FA - so that after that 2nd season w/playoff. We were 20 mil over the cap and had to blow it all up.
Chud was the opposite I think if we gave him more Veteran FA depth we would not have had that 2nd half woes where we lost games at least at a better success.
When it all comes down to it. Talent or lack of plays a big part of a coaches success. I think we got the talent to build on and become a success as long as the HC isn't a moron and if he's a Super star I think we can do some serious competing. I like this Hire...probably would have liked any hire but I really like this hire a lot.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Rubin, Taylor, Sheard, Kruger, Winn, Hughes, and Kitchen can all fit the 4-3 DL.
DQ can play, and probably plays better in the 4-3. Robertson also might be better suited for the 4-3. Mingo might fit the 4-3 as well at OLB.
I see no reason why we would need to make massive personnel changes to go back to the 4-3 as a base. We would probably have to add a few backup DL in place of backup LB. I don't see that as some insurmountable obstacle.
That said, I do prefer the 3-4, and I feel it offers greater flexibility in attacking an offense. .
Wait, what did I miss, Pettine is more of a 3-4 guy but based on his comments to Mary Kay, he'll tailor his scheme to the talents of the players.
If we can keep the D intact with a few upgrades perhaps, he'll have all the talent he needs to have a strong D.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Buffalo Bills defensive coordinator Mike Pettine will be the new head coach of the Cleveland Browns, the team announced Thursday afternoon.
Pettine will be a first-time head coach in the NFL, rising from the level of a Pennsylvania high school head coach from 1995-2001, and every single first-time head coach arrives with a certain level of uncertainty. But it's hard to imagine a first-time coaching hire as unanimously approved throughout the league as this one.
"No way to know what kind of a coach Mike Pettine would be for Browns. But have not talked to a coach who isn’t a huge fan of him. Great guy." - Ian Rapoport
"Spoke to many former players and personnel people who worked with Mike Pettine. All had great things to say. He develops talent." - Matt Miller
Sources within the league told us Pettine possesses "a great football mind in all phases. He's a good motivator, takes advantage of players' strengths and puts them in position to make plays." Another added: "Pettine is a great evaluator of talent, free agents, draft prospects - the best I have been around."
A high school coach as recently as 2001, Pettine generated a massive amount of respect from within the league for his race up the NFL coaching ladder. "He's the most competitive person I know," an NFL source told FootballScoop. "He belives in complete honesty with coaches and players. He tells people the truth, not what they want to hear."
Pettine broke into the league as a low-level assistant with the Baltimore Ravens in 2002, then rose to assistant defensive line coach in 2004, and then was promoted to linebackers coach from 2005-08.
Upon landing the New York Jets head coaching job, Rex Ryan brought Pettine along with him, where he served as his defensive coordinator from 2009-12. The Jets ranked among the top quarter of the league in total defense each of those four seasons. In his one season in Buffalo, Pettine helped the Bills jump from 22nd to 10th in total defense.
A Virginia graduate, Pettine is just the 15th head coach in the Browns' 68-year history, but becomes the eighth head coach since the franchise's reboot in 1999. Of the previous seven, only two stayed on the job for longer than two seasons. The Browns have made the playoffs once in the past 20 seasons.
The previous paragraph could end up being a blessing for Pettine. The entire front office - from owner Jimmy Haslam to CEO Joe Banner to team president Alec Scheiner to general manager Michael Lombardi - is still new to the job, and you'd have to think the brain trust realizes patience is required to rebuild the once-proud franchise.
After an exhaustive, three-and-a-half week search, Mike Pettine is their guy. Clearly they checked his references.
Quote: Well, I take it that he's going to get an OC that knows what he's doing.
I sure hope so. Pettine will be able to help an OC game plan against a defense, but not necessarily carry it out/execute when it comes to gameday. He (well, "we" technically) need someone who can operate the offensive unit and 'welcomes' input, not operate the offense and 'NEEDS' input.
It would SUCK to finally get a QB and then a system/play caller that makes him look the QB's we are use to seeing here in Browns Town.
Quote: I like what he had to say. I like the man, but I have no idea what kinda HC he'll be.
I think that is how the vast majority of people feel.. Nobody knows for sure what kind of HC he will be..
And it would be the same with any of the guys the FO considered. The same tough road was ahead of any of them. Seems we have a tough, hard nosed guy as our coach so that's a positive for me. Nothing seems daunting to him and that alone will serve him well.
Am I bad Browns fan for not watching any of these videos, or any other presser? Truthfully I only watched a couple of Chuds. I think it's fatigue from years of coach speak with little production. The ever changing faces saying the same things about 'toughness, accountability, culture change...'. I think I've lost the part of me that cares. Almost to point I feel like calling whichever coach is currently on staff 'Coach' until he's been with us for more than 3 years. Then start using his name. Man I've got beaten dog syndrome.
Am I bad Browns fan for not watching any of these videos, or any other presser? Truthfully I only watched a couple of Chuds. I think it's fatigue from years of coach speak with little production. The ever changing faces saying the same things about 'toughness, accountability, culture change...'. I think I've lost the part of me that cares. Almost to point I feel like calling whichever coach is currently on staff 'Coach' until he's been with us for more than 3 years. Then start using his name. Man I've got beaten dog syndrome.
There's nothing wrong with that at all. I bet if you had a sit down with Mike Pettine, he'd probably agree with you. Hey may not be one of us, but he's been in this league long enough to know that these press conferences eventually start meaning less to Browns fans. Nobody cares what you have to say. I thought he actually did a good job of pointing that out. He didn't try and blow smoke up the fans' rear ends. To sum up what he said, he doesn't think any of this matters, it's about what happens in September. I'll add on to that and say May as well.
I was excited after the Chud hire, because I believe in his schemes. I also believed this would be the last press conference for a while. This time around I only watched because I've never heard the guy speak. I'm glad he took the route of not trying to win everyone over on that day.
At the very least it sounds like he knows what he's in for.
His more important speech is going to be when he addresses the team.. I just fear that our veterans like JT and DQ and some others are as tired of these speeches as we are, if not more so...
Hopefully Pettine can find the right tone and say the right things to lead them to believe this time it will be different... awful easy for them to fall into the "here we go again" mode... the upside is, from everything I've read, that is one of Pettine's biggest strengths is making that connection with his players and staff..
Have any players put anything out there on Twitter or anything? Haven't read much and don't follow many of the players..
Quote: Wait, what did I miss, Pettine is more of a 3-4 guy but based on his comments to Mary Kay, he'll tailor his scheme to the talents of the players.
If we can keep the D intact with a few upgrades perhaps, he'll have all the talent he needs to have a strong D.
This and this alone makes me feel better already. No hammering square pegs into round holes or blowing it all up because someone is so anal about the scheme in their first year on the job.
Why are people getting worked up over a perceived plan or not? The plan was Chud was not the long-term answer. Period. You don't retain him because you don't have a side agreement in place already with someone else. You cut the guy as quickly as possible and begin to move on. Any and everyone ... media and Browns fans alike ... just don't get it and are clueless on this front. Chud wasn't going to work. That's all there is to it.
At that point, the plan becomes interview as many candidates as possible. What the hell is wrong with that? Thank God Haslam saved Banner and Lombardi from themselves and demanded that more interviews were held before making a decision on McDaniels. It certainly exposed McDaniels true colors, didn't it? Instead of embracing the challenge of proving to Haslam he can be the guy, he took his ball and went home when he found out the Browns weren't going to beg ... and probably based on what Lombardi had promised him. I wanted no part of McDaniels then and especially after that. Yet we still have people blasting the FO for not having a plan...for claiming McDaniels left us at the alter ... and generally blasting the FO for not getting him. Unreal.
There is no doubt that Pettine forced their hand at the end. DJ, you are just making stuff up now. You keep saying 'it got heated' after Gase went away. Gase was the last guy on their list. Once he bowed out, why wouldn't the pace pick up? I mean really. Get real man. The only stone left unturned was Quinn and Pettine wasn't going to wait for that. Judgment call time for Jimmy and Co. And they chose Pettine who I am sure was ahead of or even with Quinn.
So what exactly did this FO do wrong to all the naysayers out there? 1. They unanimously got rid of a guy that they didn't feel was the long-term answer before letting the situation fester. 2. They next proceeded to interview a wide range of applicants and not just fall for the hot coordinator or someone's buddy or someone who shared a similar agent. 3. They thoroughly interviewed the guys that made the biggest impression. 4. They took as long as they needed to in order to make the best decision.
Ok, I'll let DJ and Pit get back to making stuff up now.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Why are people getting worked up over a perceived plan or not? The plan was Chud was not the long-term answer. Period. You don't retain him because you don't have a side agreement in place already with someone else. You cut the guy as quickly as possible and begin to move on. Any and everyone ... media and Browns fans alike ... just don't get it and are clueless on this front. Chud wasn't going to work. That's all there is to it.
At that point, the plan becomes interview as many candidates as possible. What the hell is wrong with that? "Thank God Haslam saved Banner and Lombardi from themselves and demanded that more interviews were held before making a decision on McDaniels. It certainly exposed McDaniels true colors, didn't it? Instead of embracing the challenge of proving to Haslam he can be the guy, he took his ball and went home when he found out the Browns weren't going to beg ... and probably based on what Lombardi had promised him. I wanted no part of McDaniels then and especially after that. Yet we still have people blasting the FO for not having a plan...for claiming McDaniels left us at the alter ... and generally blasting the FO for not getting him. Unreal.
There is no doubt that Pettine forced their hand at the end. DJ, you are just making stuff up now. You keep saying 'it got heated' after Gase went away. Gase was the last guy on their list. Once he bowed out, why wouldn't the pace pick up? I mean really. Get real man. The only stone left unturned was Quinn and Pettine wasn't going to wait for that. Judgment call time for Jimmy and Co. And they chose Pettine who I am sure was ahead of or even with Quinn.
So what exactly did this FO do wrong to all the naysayers out there? 1. They unanimously got rid of a guy that they didn't feel was the long-term answer before letting the situation fester. 2. They next proceeded to interview a wide range of applicants and not just fall for the hot coordinator or someone's buddy or someone who shared a similar agent. 3. They thoroughly interviewed the guys that made the biggest impression. 4. They took as long as they needed to in order to make the best decision.
Ok, I'll let DJ and Pit get back to making stuff up now.
Excellent post... what I have been trying to say for couple days now....This just nails it.
I see where Pettine was defending his daughter from her tweet about "It's the Browns... but still pretty cool"..
His explanation was that when she was younger he was on the Ravens staff and that's where she learned to NOT be a Browns fan.. and that's all she meant..
Quote: I see where Pettine was defending his daughter from her tweet about "It's the Browns... but still pretty cool"..
His explanation was that when she was younger he was on the Ravens staff and that's where she learned to NOT be a Browns fan.. and that's all she meant..
I thought it was funny. She shouldn't have to apologize for it either. Why would any kid think the Browns were something cool?
Quote: The ever changing faces saying the same things about 'toughness, accountability, culture change...'. I think I've lost the part of me that cares.
Agreed. I've been less enthusiastic about this search than any Browns search I really followed. The Chud finding last year was exciting, especially with our two coordinators.
Romeo and Mangini I was very excited about too. Getting Holmgren and Heckert was exciting (Shurmur was not, lol). But this one, I just feel, eh. Sure hope it works out though.
The one thing that makes me feel great is that this guy was Rex's D-Coordinator. And I've always liked Rex. He manages to get a lot out of his talent, even if he makes ridiculous statements and has a fetish for feet
I didn't know where else to put this but, considering it was produced after we hired Pettine, I thought this thread to be an appropriate place.. plus it was a fun watch if anyone likes the Dan Patrick Show...
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Quote: Let's not go overboard in our praise or bashing of Mike. How about we give him 2 or 3 years to see how this all plays out.
What? But, he's a big tough guy who wants to be here and has a cool nickname! He's so confident, and everybody loves his press conference! Super Bowl!! Lord, I have heard these exact same kinds of comments every time we get a new one of these guys.
I hope he's the guy, I hope he's the best damn coach the Browns have ever even thought about having. But, I'm not getting attached to him...I'm done with that.
I understand.
I'll say this, as soon as his name was mentioned, I starterd to read his background, watched some vid clips and can say this is the first guy I am 100% in step with. This guy has everything I want. As soon as I found out about the guy, he was the guy I wanted. We are going to win with this guy.
I am not worried about Banner or Lombardi. Pettine may not have the sway this year, but soon enough Haslam is going to dictate he gets what he wants.
This is going to be good. Very good.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
This really isn't worth much of a discussion Rish, as we will never know how this process unfolded. It's opinion either way and we simply disagree on the narrative. No big deal. I have no problem with Pettine, but with the guys that hired him and I said why and backend it up with reasonable assumptions and media reports.
You did the same, but please don't act as if your take is based on facts and mine is spin, that's lame. Yours is full of deduction too based on assumptions as well. The biggest may be taking their word at face value, as the only thing they've proven so far is to be not trustworthy (consensus, Chud, FO structure etc), so your premise is as "good" as mine at best.
I like your take on McD though and if that is how it unfolded then I applaud Haslam/Banner for not falling for it. But even if I were to believe most of your narrative, I'd still feel skeptic about their evaluation skills that it took them so long to even consider the guy they ended up hiring.
Your take is the positive spin of "no stone left unturned", but in the analogy of proposing to a woman to become your wife it could also be interpreted as going to bed with everyone, even after your 1st time with your future wife and only when she urged you to make a choice, you proposed....with the final twist of a mistery mistress included. You say it's thorough and planend, I say it's undecidetly and bitchy. It can be seen either way, depending where you're coming from...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Quote: Let's not go overboard in our praise or bashing of Mike. How about we give him 2 or 3 years to see how this all plays out.
What? But, he's a big tough guy who wants to be here and has a cool nickname! He's so confident, and everybody loves his press conference! Super Bowl!! Lord, I have heard these exact same kinds of comments every time we get a new one of these guys.
I hope he's the guy, I hope he's the best damn coach the Browns have ever even thought about having. But, I'm not getting attached to him...I'm done with that.
The problem is we've been here 7 times...and had 22 different QB's..7 HC's and 22 QB's..it's tired..Listening to Haslam, he tried to deflect the perception of his organization. Fact is the fans are tired of the mess that's been here since '99.. I know the guy is new HC..but he has to win..bottom line.
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