DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Northwestern Players Attempt to Form Union

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

If the team votes to unionize, Northwestern could collectively bargain with them and turn into a football powerhouse within a few years.

Northwestern could also just drop in to 1 double A and forget the crap !

Eventually, yeah, everyone would catch up if they all followed suit. But it's a head start if you're the first with your foot in the door.

I see the NCAA's backs against the wall here.

For better or worse, their days are already numbered. This isn't helping their cause.

I see them weathering the storm or getting crushed...I don't really see them throwing down an iron fist. Not saying it can't happen, but they're on already shakier ground than they were with this.

And again...this is all wild speculation. This hasn't even begun to play out yet.

Leave it to Brainiacs at Northwestern to ruin the NCAA.



Actually, good for them.


I have for a while now wanted the SEC to pull from the NCAA and do their own deal. It's been heading this way with all the league networks and national networks aligning with variouis conferences....CBS and the SEC as an example.


I love college football and hope it could stay as it was, but it can't, so now be proactive and move to the next level....not like baseball with a minor league level with team sponsored minor league teams, but all NFL teams kicking in X $million each to the minor league system to pay the players and provide the education. Cut teams to NFL levels, or slightly larger.


The schools still make the guys go to school , every player on scholarship makes the same money, players still pick and choose the school of their choice, etc., but the scholarship money is provided by the NFL, so you don't have to worry about Title 9 or anything like that. The NFL is funding 55 scholarships at 32 schools. After that, football is a walk-on deal at those schools. No public funds are being spent.


Or, the schools could still fund some scholarships just as is, up to a agreed upon amount. This wouldn't hurt the schools other programs because the NFL would pull no profit from the schools....you can't provide scholarships and pull profit. The NFL would actually get a big tax break. Schools could sink profit money from their football programs....the big profit maker at most schools.... back to to baseball teams, volleyball teams, golf teams, hockey, wrestling, gymnastics, swimmimg, track, basketball to a degree.....basketball is already fairly well funded as it is also a money maker for most schools.

Buying athletes happen all the time. It's just not talked about. Same reason they don't really try to drug test in the NFL, they don't want to ruin the good things they have going for them.

Those are considered scholarships directly for Educational fees- you wouldn't be taxed on them. Just like grad students aren't taxed on the money they don't pay to colleges. Things like per diem are reimbursements (just like in the business world), so no tax.

Also, fun historical fact - Northwestern employees don't have to pay Evanston city tax. It's the cause of a wee-bit of tension.

I feel a lot of people here are just getting joy about how they can make this go bad for Northwestern students.

I think there are a number of ways that this could play out, some a "win" for Northwestern athletes, some a "win" for the NCAA.

Things that could happen:

1.) Northwestern athletes could reject the effort to unionize -- no doubt their e-mails and phones are all getting pummeled now by coaches, Athletic directors, and NCAA officials warning them how terrible this will be, and threatening them with the inability to play college football again, etc. They are impressionable 20 year olds, and that the above threats are actual possibilities, so they may not endorse the union.

Then the story will probably go away fairly quickly - if no school wants to unionize. The NCAA might be scared by the judges ruling into getting congressional legislation which tries to ban student unions or something like that.

2.) Other schools could join in. From what I understand, the current ruling applies to any private (but not public) school. Northwestern is a small fish in a big ocean, in terms of college athletics. But if USC, Stanford, Notre Dame etc. join in -- then the NCAA will be much more hesitant to strongly punish (ban athletes etc.) from participating in sports while the litigation proceeds over the next few years. It's a small black eye for the NCAA if Northwestern football doesn't play next year -- it's a big black eye if Stanford and USC don't play.

If larger schools don't join in, I expect some combination of the NCAA and the Northwestern administration to come down hard on Northwestern athletes - the only move they really have here is a power-move. And they could squash this if they successfully ban Northwestern sports for a year. But read below:

3.) The NCAA could try to forbid unionized students from playing - though I don't think it's clear that this is a legal maneuver on the NCAAs part. They can exile a player for crimes and such - but I don't think this falls under that. I'd have to read the exact bylaws, and I'm not sure if I could interpret them correctly. There are two issues of relevance here:

1.) The NCAA can't rule out players for any number of beliefs and opinions, but just for misconduct, which this isn't. On the other hand - that is true precisely because the players aren't employees. That is, if the players are claiming they are employees, it makes more sense that the NCAA should be able to fire them, or prevent them from working, than it does if they are students. So it gets tricky, and the NCAA by-laws may not appropriately address this new legal situation it would find itself in.

2.) The NCAA has long argued (to avoid monopoly legislation), that the teams are independent entities, and that the NCAA is just a uniform organization which controls how they play each other (this is the same argument the NFL makes). In this case, it's not clear that the NCAA is the employer in this case - it seems like Northwestern is the employer who would have the right to terminate contracts, etc. Then the NCAA might be able to prohibit Northwestern from competing, but that's even a stronger step than above. Also, it's not clear Northwestern would ban a large subgroup of its students from competing, that's a much bigger move for them (with student backlash on the local level) than it is for the NCAA.

4.) NCAA and students may negotiate a number of the students demands in exchange for abandoning the union concept. There's a strong argument to be made that paid players will be a mess for college athletics that students don't want. NCAA could offer things like: guaranteed 6 year scholarships, medical care for life for sports related injuries, better educational aids. etc. The problem with this negotiation is that while the NCAA will likely be held to whatever it offers students, it's not clear (given the ruling) that this would prohibit a bunch of students next year from saying "you didn't give us enough, we're unionizing". So it's a negotiation where only one side is bound to the results. OTOH, the above things are really small compared to the NCAA pocket books, so they might try.

5.) The NCAA could just try to avoid the story - some small name schools may try to unionize, but currently their demands aren't extreme at all, and they could actually be granted by the schools in question, not by the NCAA. The NCAA forces Northwestern to be the school that guarantees medical coverage, and forces Northwestern to provide longer term scholarships which cover times when the players aren't elgible to play. This is enough to make sure that other private schools also fight against unionization at their own schools - but the NCAA gets to at least continue over the next decade or so while this plays out (and people get to pocket some really big checks in the interim.)

It would be interesting in this scenario if you started seeing big name athletes sign on to small schools like Northwestern where they get bigger benefits. If that happens, then this system will start to be unstable (schools will want to scramble to offer enhanced benefits to students as well), it also becomes unstable if the unionized students demand pay. If neither of those things happen, though, it could just be the new NCAA for decades.

That makes sense, is there any difference for an athletic scholarship versus non-athletic scholarships? I'm guessing not.

Regardless, the players are getting about $280k in free education to play. Yes they help make a lot of money for the university - money that pays for other athletics that do not. I don't get joy on how this could go bad for the athletes, there's just a potential flip side I don't think that the lawyers have told them of, and that the free education covers any financial gain the are due.

j/c

My $0.02 on this is...

System as is, plus all college athletes should be under some sort of college medical insurance for 100% coverage of injuries sustained WHILE playing. Semi-annual physicals and a physical "exit interview". Then off the "payroll" and back on mom and dad's insurance until they are 26. Standardized contracts across all schools with no allowance for post school litigation. You don't like it. Go do something else.

J/C...

Keep things the way they are except for one thing IMO and this goes away... Allow players to make money off their name.

Portion of jersey sales, commercials, autographs etc. They're doing the work - they're the reason people all around them get rich - let them make some money off THEIR name for THEIR work.

They're getting a free education, free food, free tutoring, a stipend, free clothing, free room & board - all tax free. For a school like Northwestern, that is about $280k for 4 years. They get plenty.

I don't care what they get - they should be able to make money off their name for their work.

I would agree with you IF they were actually getting a college education. But the fact is, in many cases, their degrees are a sham and they never really receive an education that would qualify as college worthy.

The university often times facilitates this and the athlete never actually gets an education. So the premise of "paying for their education" is pretty much a sham.

Interesting. Over the past 13+ years, between work colleagues and friends I've played intramural sports with, I know scores of former college athletes who all got educations. The vast majority, like most college athletes in general, never took it to the professional ranks, but a few did.

I think your "in many cases" is way overstated. Does it happen, yes, for sure. For a few elite athletes on a football team (remember there's 80+ scholarships on a Div I college football team) or basketball team, but nowhere near the majority. The vast majority are there for an education, and their athletic prowess allows them to do it for free, or at a reduced cost.

If I were the one making the call it'd be tied to "your" jersey sales, or "your" merchandising.

It makes no sense to me that, say, a diver on the womens swim team should make anything off the jersey of a running back. But, that woman should be able to make money in any way she can through ties/promos for her sport. She's putting the work in in her sport the same as the guy is in his.

But isn't that capitalism? The stud QB has a lot more value (not only on the field, but financially to the university) than the third string RG.

I'm not personally an advocate of the jersey sales going to individual players bit, but it is the most capitalistic solution.

This is why if the top 64+1 football teams break away from the NCAA and form their own semi-pro league, they can pay or not pay their players whatever they want. The star QB gets $25,000/month and the backup RG gets $25/month. And if the QB doesn't want to go to classes, then he doesn't have to. The croquet team is still in the NCAA and don't have a TV deal bringing in cash, they stay where they are and don't get paid. Simple.

You realize a lot of these kids are athletes first then students. I'm sure if many had it their way they wouldn't pay for classes either way.

And then the school would lose out on all of their players and the gravy train for them would run out.

Then maybe they can get back to educating the kids that want to learn. Novel idea.