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I responded to that in the banter between Vers and I.
And since I saw your response before I saw his, I replied to yours myself. It was addressed to me, wasn't it? Am I supposed to let him speak for me or am I allowed to speak for myself?
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I too want to see this team win more than we lose. We all do or we wouldn't be here.
That's what logic would tell you, but look at some of the comments about the front office and about the possibility of replacing Alex Mack. Seriously? Didn't we already go through the 'pay the man' phase with Cribbs?
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I'm just burned out on the entire process of getting there. Despite what you may think I'm not down on Pettine. I just don't want to hear anything from him or anyone else about their plan, or their culture change, or their toughness. I'm burned out. Go do it then I'll be all ears. I'll listen to every press conference. Until then it's just another talking head using rah rah coach talk to try to sell themselves to me.
I'm not interested in the commercial I want to see the product.
That's fair. The product isn't available until at least late July and then, it's only the preview.
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So yes. Maybe I am on the more pessimistic side. Not for feeling that these guys can't do it. I'm just not wanting to invest that emotional energy towards them until they get it done. Or are fired and we hear the next group say the same things. Sadly if that time comes I'll be just as unimpressed and unenthusiastic then too.
Dear God I hope these guys get it done. Please. Enough is enough.
I can see that point-of-view, the one about not expending the emotional energy, but it's what we as fans do. Your presence here is proof of that.  Your desire and willingness to talk about it.
I think that all Browns fans want them to get it done. We'll have to wait to see what the product development looks like. Keep in mind, there is still more time between now and the draft than there is between the draft and training camp. As we get passed the combines, we'll be approaching the draft and that's when things really begin to heat up for us.
I'm excited to see what this group can do with the number of selections that we have and how their evaluations process goes.
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You're right. I said six. My point was what if we don't win more than we lose? What if we win six but can really see a decline in growth in the talent?
If we win 6 games instead of 4, then I would say that we're probably moving in the right direction. Would I be happy with it? Probably not, but I'm not necessarily going to skewer them over it.
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I know I've touted the 6 ProBowlers thing but can the coaching truly be dismissed last year? In a year like it was with all things considered was it really about the win loss record?
No, it wasn't about the win-loss record. Not completely. It was about 7 straight losses to end the season. It was seeing no developmental improvement as the year progressed. And can the coaching be dismissed? Well, the answer to that is both 'no' and 'yes'. No, in the sense that the coaching (or lack thereof) was considered and as a consequence, they were dismissed.
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Well lets look at the Seahawks D - acclaimed to be one of the best.
Quinn who many wanted here as HC.
He was an asst DL coach or quality Coach mostly intern type stuff.
2011 n 2012 he had DC experience IN COLLEGE Ballpeens school
Then got hired as the DC in Seattle. So as I said. I think today's players like the Rah Rah stuff especially those who haven't traveled around as FA but have known just one team...the young teams building through the draft just like us.
So I wouldn't put too much to the resume...I'm sure if we hired the DC from the Gators to be our DC we would be saying Come on man what can he do he's from college!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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So I'm not as concerned with pro coaching experience as I am, as 'tabber said, that these coaches are good teachers.
That's a great point.. and as Peen mentioned... " Either you can teach or you can't, "
Doesn't matter what coaching tree you come from...If you can't learn you can't teach.
I don't always believe that a coach can become a great coach because of what coaching tree they come from. Yes they learn things from other coaches.. just like players learn from other players..
But i really believe a great coach just has that special quality that you can't always coach and teach..They just got it...
They are capable of great success because they perform at their level... That's why you see so many great position coaches fail at being a HC...
That's why I'm a little more excited about the younger coaches...they can be who they are.. and not have to act like some great coach they served under.
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But i really believe a great coach just has that special quality that you can't always coach and teach..They just got it...
I have never been a big proponent of hiring coaches as rah rah guys, I have always been of the opinion that people in general, and NFL players are no different, that you have to be self-motivated. The rah rah speech might get you excited for 2 minutes as you run on the field but after that, if you aren't motivated from within, that speech isn't going to change much.
Watching the Seahawks has caused me to rethink my opinion... not that we need a glorified cheerleader as a coach, but that there is something well beyond Xs and Os that sets a tone for a team... something that doesn't just motivate them for a few minutes but a total atmosphere around the team that causes players to play with the kind of edge, the kind of tenacity that the Seahawks had during the super bowl.
So I don't think we need a yeller/screamer as a HC, we do need somebody that is able to tap into that with our team because in general, they have appeared fairly lackadaisical for a long time in their approach and very quickly fall into that woe-is-me mindset.
yebat' Putin
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Getting pumped up/fired up is a part of the game. You don't see baseball players as an example slapping each other around before the game because it isn't a part of the game. The best baseball players are the ones who remains calm as can be. You aren't going to hit many balls if you are swinging at them in a rage. Trying to throw harder doesn't help a pitcher be better.
Sure, football players need to remain in control, but a little channeled rage makes them better players. I want my coaches to show some passion and fire.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Watching the Seahawks has caused me to rethink my opinion... not that we need a glorified cheerleader as a coach, but that there is something well beyond Xs and Os that sets a tone for a team... something that doesn't just motivate them for a few minutes but a total atmosphere around the team that causes players to play with the kind of edge, the kind of tenacity that the Seahawks had during the super bowl.
team philosophy and character flows from the HC on down. you can have the business-only guys like Belichick to the everything-is-a-competition Carroll. That's what made the Seahawks so fun as a team. Nearly every drill they run, every practice they have is setup to be a series of competitions. So, they fine tune their skills under heightened awareness. It's a great idea and has to take constant imagination and creativity to keep it fresh. Pete has always been a master of this set (and the X and O portion is also vital, but the teaching/learning environment is just as important IMO).
#gmstrong
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I want my coaches to show some passion and fire.
I want my women to do the same... 
I agree Peen... What DC ... Don't need a Mid life Menstrual period hot head screamer out there..Well he did'nt say that... I exaggerated...LOL!
Isn't football about testosterone ? I've seen bowling teams with more energy than some of the teams we put out on the field....
Sometimes I think these coaches rotate players to damn much.. and that rotation takes the fire out of the players...Get the players fired up... send them out and let them stay that way.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Shurmur was the WORST at have specific "packages" for each play. Guya running in and out. How you expect to get any rhythm that way ill never know.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
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What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
I can't say it was him. But I don't know how many times it felt like the D would be attacking in the 1st half. Then go soft in the 2nd.
Maybe it was the players. But part of me felt it was the play calling too.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Guys running in and out. How you expect to get any rhythm that way ill never know.
When did this " keeping the players fresh" crap come about ? I agree . how do you get rhythm when your ass is sitting on a bench.... Or watching the other player on the field at your position.
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Leaving an Arizona team loaded with defensive talent (Peterson, Washington, Dockett, Campbell, Rhodes, and Wilson > what we had last year).
And cutting the braids.
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Quote:
What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
He didn't watch the Seattle never rotating D... 
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And cutting the braids.
That was Funny !
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Quote:
What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
He didn't watch the Seattle never rotating D...
since you didn't put it in purple and some might not realize how much Seattle subs:
yep, SB-MVP Malcolm Smith played every single defensive down (wait a second, he only played 1/2 the downs).
well, Avril should have been MVP anyway. oh, he's the pass-rush specialist backup DE
and Michael Bennett is ALWAYS in on defense, right? oh right, another pass-rush specialist. 
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
I can't say it was him. But I don't know how many times it felt like the D would be attacking in the 1st half. Then go soft in the 2nd.
Maybe it was the players. But part of me felt it was the play calling too.
This. And the inability to stop a team on 3rd down. At one point in the season we were #6 in overall defense, but dead last on 3rd down. We were obviously tearing it up on 1st and 2nd down. It seemed like we had no problem getting teams into 3rd and long, but we could not get them off of the field.
Good on 1st and 2nd down. Bad on 3rd,
Good in 1st half. Bad in 2nd half.
There was ability. They just could not finish. Vers mentioned mental weakness, that definitely comes into play. I think the inability to finish and put it away is, for a good part, on the coaches.
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The Never gave it away didn't it ? Besides that he plays a simple D.. I also would credit him for these moves... He moved Bryant from the strong side to the weak side... He moved Irvin to outside linebacker. And put Avril at the LEO.... He then puts Chancellor closer to the line which allows Thomas to play more single high.... Rotation yes he did...position wise... but these guys played damn near the whole game...
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the never, the ellipses, and the smiley. along with knowing you aren't one known for commenting out things that are the opposite of what happens in games.
yes, I agree that Seattle did a nice job at rotating some of their highest performers around on the field for even those that played most downs. gave Peyton different looks without putting in lesser players.
#gmstrong
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along with knowing you aren't one known for commenting out things that are the opposite of what happens in games.
Very true.. and look at me... I"m talking "DC" in a "OC" Thread...
I suppose the talk should be more on how.. if and when Shanny rotates.... I'm not much on the Redskins... and how he had the Morris / young tandem in and out...
I'm sorry... just found out my close friend just passed away from cancer... Get back in a couple hours... I'm bumming out right now... no need to hijack the thread...
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So I don't think we need a yeller/screamer as a HC...
I take it that Harbaugh (49ers) is not high on your "want list"...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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sorry about your friend.
Take care.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Yeah Diesel...condolences. Prayers for his soul. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Wow, I am very sorry to hear about your friend.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
I can't say it was him. But I don't know how many times it felt like the D would be attacking in the 1st half. Then go soft in the 2nd.
Maybe it was the players. But part of me felt it was the play calling too.
This is when he decided to drop people in coverage, which ironically was even more worthless than just sending them rushing to the QB given the coverage skills from anyone beside DQ, who likely was our best cover linebacker, was allowing qb's to move the ball with ease. The middle of our defense was a playground for opposing team's offenses. Wayyyyyyyyyyy too many times small little quick dumpoffs/checkdowns resulted in huge chunks of yardage.
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Wow man,, sorry for your loss..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sure, football players need to remain in control, but a little channeled rage makes them better players. I want my coaches to show some passion and fire.
As do I.... but showing passion and fire is no guarantee that your players are going to play like that. That was my only point. Getting your players to play like the Seahawks did takes more than standing on the sidelines yelling and screaming.. it's an attitude that begins day 1 of camp and grows from there...
yebat' Putin
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jc Kyle Shanahan discusses his relationship with RGIII BY DAN STEINBERG February 6 at 2:24 pm Kyle Shanahan and the two other new Cleveland Browns coordinators met with reporters on Thursday, holding a joint news conference that lasted nearly 30 minutes. Shanahan fielded the most questions of the three, and several of his answers pertained directly to the four years he spent in Washington. Most germane, perhaps, was the penultimate question, which dealt with the challenges of coaching a high-profile quarterback, and Shanahan’s relationship with Robert Griffin III. “Robert and I had two years together,” Shanahan said. “We did a lot of real good things together. I’m very proud of that first year. I think he arguably had one of the best years in NFL history for a rookie quarterback. I enjoyed coaching him. It challenged me, because I had to do some things that I hadn’t done before, so I had to look at tape in a different way and try to put some different things in. And I think that improved myself. I’m able to see the game a little differently. I was able to do some things with Robert that I hadn’t been able to do with other quarterbacks, and that was really fun to do. “That injury and going into that second year, it was a challenge,” Shanahan continued. “Anytime you go through a 3-13 season, it’s tough. And Robert and I always had a great relationship. I enjoyed coaching him. Anytime you go through a 3-13 season, it is a challenge. It’s a challenge on your relationship, it’s a challenge with everybody in the building. You’ve got to deal with a lot of stuff, a lot of negativity. And the thing I learned going through that — especially with a high-profile guy — there’s a lot more stuff that comes out. “And a thing that I always did with him — and that we did with each other — is when stuff would come out, we’d address it,” Shanahan said. “You know, we’d get into our room, we’d talk about it and make sure we felt good about it. And I think Robert and I, through a very tough time, we managed to keep our relationship through the year. I’m not gonna say it was easy. Nothing’s easy when you go through something like that. But I do believe going through it, Robert and I, in the long run, it’ll make both of us better. It’s something that is a challenge, and I do believe going through that, as hard as it was, will help me. And I think when it’s all said and done and Robert and I look back on it, I’m really appreciative of some of the stuff he did for me. And I really believe he’ll be appreciative of some of the stuff I did for him.” Shanahan also dealt with the Washington years when asked about the prospect of getting out from under his father’s shadow. “I’m looking forward to it,” the younger Shanahan said. “I think it’s gonna be nice when I hear the head coach’s last name and ‘S’ isn’t always tagged to the end of it – the Shanahans. So I’m looking forward to that part. But I’ve worked a lot of years in the NFL. I started out my career away from my dad. That was always a goal of mine, to prove myself before I ever coached with my dad….I thought that I HAD proved myself. And it was something I always wanted to do in my life — I wanted to coach with my dad at one time. I enjoyed it. We went through some ups and downs, but it’s something I wouldn’t take back for anything. Excited to move on and be done with that part of my life, but I think it made me better, and it’s something I’m glad that I did.” Shanahan also discussed the Cleveland quarterbacks, the pistol formation, the zone-read, his fellow assistants and a bunch of other topics.
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Ugh. Thoughts and prayers being sent your way.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
Inability to adapt to the adjustments the other teams made. Once they figured out that quick releases and short passes beat the rush, there was never any adjustments made to step up coverage on the receivers. The other problem was fatigue. I just plain got tired of watching them. But all kidding aside, with almost no scoring or sustained drives, the D was whipped by the end of the 3rd Q.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I liked the way he carried himself in the press conference. In fact, I thought all of them did a decent job.
Also, I think Pettine has a "perma-pissed" look to him. I like it.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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What do you guys think was Horton's greatest sin?
Inability to adapt to the adjustments the other teams made. Once they figured out that quick releases and short passes beat the rush, there was never any adjustments made to step up coverage on the receivers. The other problem was fatigue. I just plain got tired of watching them. But all kidding aside, with almost no scoring or sustained drives, the D was whipped by the end of the 3rd Q.
I wasn't going to say it as well as you, but it seemed as if opponent offenses made adjustments to our D and we didn't re adjust to the O. it's like we had a plan and we were changing it no matter what.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sorry if this has been repeated, I didn't read through all 7 pages. This: Quote:
Sorry but our last staff turned 2 ProBowlers into 6. Granted the win column didn't improve but in my mind the coaching was better.
I just don't see how anyone can look at our roster last year and see how any coach could have gotten enough wins to matter. What we did get was better individual performances.
I don't know how many times I've read something like this. I think Jimmy & Co. have repeatedly stated that while they did get some good play out of some players, as a whole the Team did seem to take a step back during the last half of the season. That is also on the coaching staff. I know about all the injuries and about excuses about the QB and RB, but this is more on the D side of the ball than anything. We had more leads than carters got pills only to lay down in the late 3rd early 4th and really just give games away. Like it or not the buck stops with Chud. He was the HC, if he thought that the D needed a swift kick in the pants then he should've either told Horton or called the D over to the side lines and layed the law down. The way these guys were playing, there was no reason why we should have lost the last 10 of 11. JMHO
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I want my coaches to show some passion and fire.
I want my women to do the same...
I agree Peen... What DC ... Don't need a Mid life Menstrual period hot head screamer out there..Well he did'nt say that... I exaggerated...LOL!
Isn't football about testosterone ? I've seen bowling teams with more energy than some of the teams we put out on the field....
Sometimes I think these coaches rotate players to damn much.. and that rotation takes the fire out of the players...Get the players fired up... send them out and let them stay that way.
just as long as that fire isnt a very bad burning sensation you feel "down there" after the passion 
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
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... "perma-pissed"...
You may have just coined a new word, Memphis.. 
Last edited by bbrowns32; 02/06/14 06:59 PM.
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But all kidding aside, with almost no scoring or sustained drives, the D was whipped by the end of the 3rd Q.
Halftime scores last season:
Week 1: Browns 7, Dolphins 6
Week 2: Browns 6, Ravens 0
Week 3: Browns 24, Vikings 17
Week 4: Browns 7, Bengals 3
Week 5: Browns 17, Bills 10
Week 6: Browns 17, Lions 7
Week 7: Packers 17, Browns 3
Week 8: Chiefs 20, Browns 10
Week 9: Browns 14, Ravens 10
Week 10: Bye
Week 11: Cincy 31, Browns 13 (31 2nd half Bengal points, offense imploded)
Week 12: Pittsburgh 13, Browns 3
Week 13: Jags 20, Browns 13
Week 14: Browns 6, New England 0
Week 15: Browns 10, Bears 10
Week 16: Browns 10, Jets 10
Week 17: Steelers 14, Browns 0
So, in 10 of 16 games this past season, we either had the lead, or were tied at the half. That's pretty good.
If the defense was "tired".then the opposing defense should have been just as tired. I really hate the "The defense wore down" excuses ..... because if you get yourself off the field consistently, you never get tired.
I watched this defense give up too many really, really long drives, and allow conversions on too many 3rd and stupid long plays to excuse them from blame. I certainly don't excuse the offense either, but to say that the poor defense couldn't make plays because they were tired is ridiculous.Make plays and you win games. This goes for all 3 phases of the game. Too often we broke down in all phases of the game. All phases of the game cost us victories.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Quote:
If the defense was "tired".then the opposing defense should have been just as tired. I really hate the "The defense wore down" excuses ..... because if you get yourself off the field consistently, you never get tired.
That is it in a nutshell. The defensive breakdowns were not the offenses fault. They gave up the lead, at least most of the time, (INTS and fumbles).
If they were good, they would not constantly give up third and long. Scheme or players, I'm not sure what the problem was, but it was pitiful to watch.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I sat in a BW3s in El Paso watching the Bears game. We were winning late. I was not excited. Because I knew what was coming..
The flip side of THAT was when we were in a demob briefing during the NE game. And I checked the game cast and saw we were up 12 with under 2 minutes to go.. Closed it and we started the briefing. We went on break and I asked my team leader "How bout them Brownies!" and he said "They lost.." I was actually shocked.. Just on the logistics of giving up a 12 point lead in less than 2 minutes... Wow...
The Cleveland Browns, Finding new ways to lose since 99...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Quote:
The Cleveland Browns, Finding new ways to lose since 99...
Nice. Should be our slogan.
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