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But all kidding aside, with almost no scoring or sustained drives, the D was whipped by the end of the 3rd Q.
Halftime scores last season:
Week 1: Browns 7, Dolphins 6
Week 2: Browns 6, Ravens 0
Week 3: Browns 24, Vikings 17
Week 4: Browns 7, Bengals 3
Week 5: Browns 17, Bills 10
Week 6: Browns 17, Lions 7
Week 7: Packers 17, Browns 3
Week 8: Chiefs 20, Browns 10
Week 9: Browns 14, Ravens 10
Week 10: Bye
Week 11: Cincy 31, Browns 13 (31 2nd half Bengal points, offense imploded)
Week 12: Pittsburgh 13, Browns 3
Week 13: Jags 20, Browns 13
Week 14: Browns 6, New England 0
Week 15: Browns 10, Bears 10
Week 16: Browns 10, Jets 10
Week 17: Steelers 14, Browns 0
So, in 10 of 16 games this past season, we either had the lead, or were tied at the half. That's pretty good.
When I look at this, I look a little differently at Haslam's comment "we didn't see the improvement."
We really did regress.
(Two sides to every story.)
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That's interesting.In the 6 games we were behind at the half,we lost all 6.We could only maintain the lead in 4 of the other 10.
Most will say something about halftime adjustments,although that would bolster what I'm about to propose,that is wrong.There are no such things as halftime adjustments.
While we're breaking out stupid cliches "they need to learn how to win" that's wrong also.
What I see in those numbers is alack of leadership.While the players cannot be completely absolved,the fault rests firmly on the shoulders of the coaches.Especially with such a young team.
If a coach can't lite a fire under his player's ass,then he probably isn't the man for the job.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Someone, I think it might have been Vers, said something that caused me to really think about ....... and that is that coaching and scheme gets mainly 1st half results, and then talent takes over more and more as the game progresses towards the end. That makes sense to me, because the coaches have less input on particular plays. For example, on defense, a coach has less input when the opposing QB goes hurry up. He can't call plays as well, and he cannot substitute. On offense, the coaches can set particular plays that take advantage of certain tendencies, but once the opposing team adjusts to those plays, then talent has to have a larger role in the outcome.
That makes sense to me.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Someone, I think it might have been Vers, said something that caused me to really think about ....... and that is that coaching and scheme gets mainly 1st half results, and then talent takes over more and more as the game progresses towards the end. That makes sense to me, because the coaches have less input on particular plays. For example, on defense, a coach has less input when the opposing QB goes hurry up. He can't call plays as well, and he cannot substitute. On offense, the coaches can set particular plays that take advantage of certain tendencies, but once the opposing team adjusts to those plays, then talent has to have a larger role in the outcome.
That makes sense to me.
Yes it does.
3rd down defense killed us. It's not the DL or OLB's.
It's the ILB's in coverage and our Secondary.
Find an upgrade to replace Robertson and for the love of God sign Aqib Talib across from Haden.
Jarius Byrd would go a long way in helping also.
Let Ward walk and sign Talib and Byrd.
For all the love around here for Ward and Skrine, THEY were part of the 3rd down problems.
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But all kidding aside, with almost no scoring or sustained drives, the D was whipped by the end of the 3rd Q.
Halftime scores last season:
Week 1: Browns 7, Dolphins 6
Week 2: Browns 6, Ravens 0
Week 3: Browns 24, Vikings 17
Week 4: Browns 7, Bengals 3
Week 5: Browns 17, Bills 10
Week 6: Browns 17, Lions 7
Week 7: Packers 17, Browns 3
Week 8: Chiefs 20, Browns 10
Week 9: Browns 14, Ravens 10
Week 10: Bye
Week 11: Cincy 31, Browns 13 (31 2nd half Bengal points, offense imploded)
Week 12: Pittsburgh 13, Browns 3
Week 13: Jags 20, Browns 13
Week 14: Browns 6, New England 0
Week 15: Browns 10, Bears 10
Week 16: Browns 10, Jets 10
Week 17: Steelers 14, Browns 0
So, in 10 of 16 games this past season, we either had the lead, or were tied at the half. That's pretty good.
If the defense was "tired".then the opposing defense should have been just as tired. I really hate the "The defense wore down" excuses ..... because if you get yourself off the field consistently, you never get tired.
I watched this defense give up too many really, really long drives, and allow conversions on too many 3rd and stupid long plays to excuse them from blame. I certainly don't excuse the offense either, but to say that the poor defense couldn't make plays because they were tired is ridiculous.Make plays and you win games. This goes for all 3 phases of the game. Too often we broke down in all phases of the game. All phases of the game cost us victories.
The problem with floating out half the stats is you only tell part of the story, in this case the part that supports your argument. If you look the second half scoring of the games after the team started to fall apart, let's say it started with the Lions game, you get a different picture.
Team 3rd 4th
Lions 0 0
GB 3 7
KC 7 0
Rats 7 3 (Win)
Cincy 7 0
Pit 0 8
Jags 7 7 (Should have won)
NE 13 7 (Should have won)
Bears 14 7 (Should have won)
Jets 0 3
Pit 0 7
As you can see there was very little scoring in the second half of most of those games, and in both Pit games the 4th Q scores were garbage scores. Fatigue did play a factor. Not saying it's excusable, enjoyable to admit, or not partially their own fault for not getting off the field, but it was a factor IMHO.
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jc Browns: Kyle Shanahan has had success with a rookie QBBy Jeff Schudel, The News-Herald & The Morning Journal POSTED: 02/06/14, 7:06 PM EST Kyle Shanahan coached a rookie quarterback as a starter one season in six years, and if he comes anywhere close to matching that success in 2014, the revolving door in Berea might finally stop spinning. Shanahan, 34, on Thursday was introduced as the Browns’ new offensive coordinator under first-year head coach Mike Pettine. It did not take long for the conversation to turn to the likelihood of the Browns taking a quarterback with the fourth pick of the draft on May 8. Two years ago, while Shanahan was in his third year as offensive coordinator of the Redskins, Washington used the second pick of the 2012 draft to select Robert Griffin III. Griffin passed for 3,200 yards, threw 20 touchdown passes with five interceptions, rushed for 815 yards and was the NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year. Finding a quarterback who could just start 16 games would be an improvement for the Browns, “Any time you bring a rookie in and you start him right away, you have to find out what they do well,” Shanahan said in the Dino Lucarelli Media Center. “You have to make sure you put them in a situation to be successful; don’t ask too much of them. “Usually if you spend a high pick on a guy, there’s some stuff that they do pretty well. You have to figure out and anticipate how the NFL is going to play that stuff when you put that in your scheme. And you don’t want to put too much pressure on him. Make it loose for him. Make it stuff he’s confident in doing and he’s done in his career prior. You let him focus on that early. “You try to build him and prepare him and how defenses are going to adapt to him and what he’s eventually going to have to grow to build his portfolio so he can face everything and have sustained success in this league.” Shanahan said he will have input in the upcoming draft. He will be part of the Browns contingent later this month at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. He is also evaluating the quarterbacks on the roster — Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell. Shanahan has worked with seven quarterbacks in six years. He was the offensive coordinator in 2008-09 with the Texans, where he coached Matt Schaub, before taking the same job in Washington, where he worked with his father, Mike, for four years. Griffin and Schaub are a contrast in styles. Schaub threw 29 touchdown passes and rushed for 57 yards in 2009. That rushing total was about one half of one game for Griffin in 2012. Shanahan appealed to Pettine because Shanahan was successful with a pocket quarterback and a running quarterback. “Kyle has proven in his six years that he can have one of the leading rushing attacks and he can have one of the leading passing attacks,” Pettine said Thursday. “He could have a veteran quarterback. He could have a rookie quarterback. He could have a marquee receiver in an Andre Johnson, or he could get it done with some other guys that aren’t Pro Bowl types and all different types of offensive linemen. “He’s done it with different running backs. That was appealing to me, that his system over all those changes was able to adapt and be successful.” Griffin suffered a torn ACL in the playoffs as a rookie and did not play as well last season. Both Shanahans were fired after the 2013 season when the Redskins slipped from 10-6 to 3-13. Fans in Washington are as passionate about the Redskins as fans here are passionate about the Browns  , and the Washington media detailed everything that disintegrated on and off the field in 2013. “Since late last season, it has been known within the organization that Griffin isn’t happy working with Kyle,” Jason Reid of the Washington Post wrote on Dec. 5. “Their differences over play-calling resulted in Griffin losing trust in him, Redskins people with knowledge of the situation say.” The 2013 season steeled Kyle Shanahan. The second half of the season was filled almost daily with stories such as the one written by Reid about alleged friction between Griffin and the Shanahans. If the Browns do force-feed a rookie quarterback, be it Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles or Teddy Bridgewater, and he gets off to a slow start, Shanahan will be braced for the criticism. “I’m very proud of that first year (with Griffin),” Shanahan said Thursday. ”I was able to do some things with Robert that I hadn’t been able to do with other quarterbacks, and it was really fun to do. “Anytime you go through a 3-13 season, it’s a challenge. It’s a challenge on your relationship. It’s a challenge with everybody in the building. You’ve got to deal with a lot of stuff, a lot of negativity, and the thing I learned going through that, especially with a high-profile guy, there’s a lot more stuff that comes out. “When stuff would come out, we’d address it. We’d get into our room. We’d talk about it and make sure we felt good about it, and I think Robert and I, through a very tough time, we managed to keep our relationship through the year. I’m not going to say it was easy. Nothing’s easy when you go through something like that. But I do believe going through it, Robert and I, in the long run, it’ll make both of us better.” Shanahan is taking over a Browns offense that ranked 18th in yardage and 27th in scoring in 2013.
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Just to think, now he has Weeden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's going to dial in so many qb keeps from the pistol with Weeds, defenses are going to be blinded by Brandon's speed and agility. They are going to have set a LB and a CB on qb spys to try contain this Weeden operated pistol offense! just joking!
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Just to think, now he has Weeden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's going to dial in so many qb keeps from the pistol with Weeds, defenses are going to be blinded by Brandon's speed and agility. They are going to have set a LB and a CB on qb spys to try contain this Weeden operated pistol offense!
just joking!
they'll never see it coming (Shurmur adds to his notes right next to Alex Smith FB-sweep).
#gmstrong
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Thanks. Not used to getting compliments. LOL
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Shanahan said he will have input in the upcoming draft. He will be part of the Browns contingent later this month at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis. He is also evaluating the quarterbacks on the roster — Brian Hoyer, Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell.
There was quite a bit of discussion as to why Shanny's initial interview might have made the Browns hesitant to hire him. I don't know if any of that is even true, but if it was true, I think the part that caused a delay might have been on exactly how much power Shannahan would be afforded. I think Pettine would have had to okay that move.
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Fans in Washington are as passionate about the Redskins as fans here are passionate about the Browns , and the Washington media detailed everything that disintegrated on and off the field in 2013.
It is not a joke. Believe me, Redskin fans are extremely passionate about their team and they are always talking about the team on the radio. It's pretty crazy.
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“Since late last season, it has been known within the organization that Griffin isn’t happy working with Kyle,” Jason Reid of the Washington Post wrote on Dec. 5. “Their differences over play-calling resulted in Griffin losing trust in him, Redskins people with knowledge of the situation say.”
I think RGIII is a drama queen. I watched several of Washington's games. Love the ticket. Their offense was fairly productive, but RGIII was horrible. He couldn't read coverages to save his life. He was taking forever to throw the ball and his legs couldn't bail him out this year. I watched one game where 7 of his 17 completions were WR screens. He looked freaking horrible.
His own teammates were questioning his attitude and comments. No way was Schneider going to put any blame on RGIII after giving up all those draft picks for RGIII, so the two Shannahan's were the scape goats in an ugly situation.
And when all was said and done, Washington's offense was still 10th overall. Their defense was atrocious. I think we made a good hire w/this guy.
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i know its about the skins, but if gruden comes in, and rg3 stinks up the place like he did with kyle as the OC, is that more of a knock on RG3? or is the owner still gonna use the HC as the scapegoat?
i think 2015 is when they get their 1st round pick back? that would be interesting to follow...
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Had to take a jaunt to the post office today and on my way I was listening to the NFL on Sirius Radio. One dude calls in, a Redskins fan, he was stating that now that we had Shanny we were going to trade Gordon for Cousins.
#GMSTRONG
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“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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~ Legend
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Who wouldn't trade the 2nd best WR in the NFL for a backup QB?
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Thanks. Not used to getting compliments. LOL
I have no problem complimenting someone when they say something I agree with and/or find insightful, while disagreeing with them if I feel they are wrong.
Believe it or not, most of us are right occasionally. and wrong occasionally.  lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i know its about the skins, but if gruden comes in, and rg3 stinks up the place like he did with kyle as the OC, is that more of a knock on RG3? or is the owner still gonna use the HC as the scapegoat?
i think 2015 is when they get their 1st round pick back? that would be interesting to follow...
At least some if RG's problems had to do with Health,, so I'm not really sure if the comparison will tell us anything.
A Healthy RG had one hell of a year under Shanahan.. A not healthy RG didn't fair quite so well.
So, if he comes back healthy next season and has a great year, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume health had a part in it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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oh i definitely agree.
i'm saying if he comes back healthy this year, and struggles reading coverages and such. i guess i'm just wondering if Gruden will have as much success...or failure, with rg3 as Kyle did, ya know?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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oh i definitely agree.
i'm saying if he comes back healthy this year, and struggles reading coverages and such. i guess i'm just wondering if Gruden will have as much success...or failure, with rg3 as Kyle did, ya know?
Ahh, Gotcha.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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What I've read about Kyle Shannahan. He had offensive linemen around 300 pounds, some under. He wants WR's who are going to get YAC. He wants QB's who will follow his system to a T. He's a micromanager of his QB's to the smallest details. On any given play he tells you how many steps, how wide, the hitch, a pump, what have you. Running backs will be people with great vision. He'll take someone with less athleticism for someone who can see holes, and hit them, better.
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Nothing wrong w/any of that.
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What I've read about Kyle Shannahan. He had offensive linemen around 300 pounds, some under. He wants WR's who are going to get YAC. He wants QB's who will follow his system to a T. He's a micromanager of his QB's to the smallest details. On any given play he tells you how many steps, how wide, the hitch, a pump, what have you. Running backs will be people with great vision. He'll take someone with less athleticism for someone who can see holes, and hit them, better.
I also get the sense that this "Shanahan" offense doesn't necessarily invest a lot of money to the RB position. Ben Tate may be a non-issue, and that may be a good thing.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Yeah, I am actually hoping we don't pursue Tate.
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Yeah, I am actually hoping we don't pursue Tate.
Same. Especially after I learned of his injury history. There will be plenty of cheaper options who can provide similar production.
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Good one cut zone runners are everywhere.I'm more concerned about linemen and a blocking TE.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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We are going to need more athletic guards in this system.
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Although we need that QB I'm always all in for improving a team in the trenches.
Would love to see our lines have their way against opponents!
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Yeah, I am actually hoping we don't pursue Tate.
Carlos Hyde
#gmstrong
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Yeah, I am actually hoping we don't pursue Tate.
Carlos Hyde
You will never hear me complain about Hyde. I just think we can get great value like an Andre Williams later.
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Yeah, I am actually hoping we don't pursue Tate.
Me too. WAY to much $$$.
Not a great durability back.
Go for a Hyde in round 3.
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We are going to need more athletic guards in this system.
I have always been big on guards. That is where your run game starts and a solid wall in front of the QB makes the tackles job so much easier if the QB can step up in to the pocket. As long as the tackles don't get beat inside, they can simply ride their guy a litle wide.
I know the thinking is you can find guards later in the draft. Well, that hasn't worked all that well for us. I'd like to see what some 2nd and 3rd round players would do at the position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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JC...
Going after Tate would be a bad idea, IMO. Watched him quite a bit this year and I thought he was below average.
RE: Shanahan....two things concern me about him...his age and the micro managing style. 34 years old is pretty young to essentially be one of the three or four most influential leaders on a football team ...actually that could be why he is a micro manager. He doesn't know any better. Most young leaders that have not developed fully as a leader are that way. Micro managing never works long term. Never. It is the quickest way to not get the best out of your people. This hire really concerns me.
We went from Chud, Norv, Horton to Pettine, O'Neil, Shanahan. On paper that doesn't look like a very good trade for us although I suspect it will be hard for Pettine to be as bad as Chud. Horton took way too much flack on here, IMO. Pettine better be the guy we all hope he will be.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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We are going to need more athletic guards in this system.
I have always been big on guards. That is where your run game starts and a solid wall in front of the QB makes the tackles job so much easier if the QB can step up in to the pocket. As long as the tackles don't get beat inside, they can simply ride their guy a litle wide.
I know the thinking is you can find guards later in the draft. Well, that hasn't worked all that well for us. I'd like to see what some 2nd and 3rd round players would do at the position.
Neither has QB, RB, WR, TE, OT, CB, S, LB, DE, DT or P 
Also Greco and Lavaou were 3rd rounders iirc.
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What I've read about Kyle Shannahan. He had offensive linemen around 300 pounds, some under. He wants WR's who are going to get YAC. He wants QB's who will follow his system to a T. He's a micromanager of his QB's to the smallest details. On any given play he tells you how many steps, how wide, the hitch, a pump, what have you. Running backs will be people with great vision. He'll take someone with less athleticism for someone who can see holes, and hit them, better.
OK,, so if that's what he wants and likes to do, Great.
Now, which QB in the draft bests fits that plan
Which RB best fits that plan
What receiver in the draft or FA fits that plan.
That should give us a hint as to where they may be going.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I brought up the guards because you need athletic guards who can trap, gap block, and get to the second level in a hurry when you are zone blocking.
I don't think those guys need to be drafted high. In fact, some of the more athletic guards may fall in the draft because they lack the ideal size and brute strength that so many other teams are looking for.
Do you remember the Zone Blocking thread I started on here several years ago? That turned out to be a great thread. We had a ton of very intelligent replies to that thread and I thought it was educational. I should have saved the darn thing. It would be a good topic of conversation now.
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Now, which QB in the draft bests fits that plan
Teddy. He's the smartest QB to come out in a long time. I also think Manziel will be productive in Shanny's version of the WCO.
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Which RB best fits that plan
As posters, we should be focusing on guys who are one-cut runners and have very good vision. Carlos Hyde might be a guy who fits into that category.
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What receiver in the draft or FA fits that plan.
FA: Jeremy Maclin from Philadelphia.
Draft: Jordan Matthews from Vandy or Odell Beckham Jr from LSU.
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Legend
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Legend
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Now, which QB in the draft bests fits that plan
Teddy. He's the smartest QB to come out in a long time. I also think Manziel will be productive in Shanny's version of the WCO.
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Which RB best fits that plan
As posters, we should be focusing on guys who are one-cut runners and have very good vision. Carlos Hyde might be a guy who fits into that category.
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What receiver in the draft or FA fits that plan.
FA: Jeremy Maclin from Philadelphia.
Draft: Jordan Matthews from Vandy or Odell Beckham Jr from LSU.
I know you agree with me when I say that realism is important. That said:
Pretty sure we can get the WR and RB, not sure we'll find a willing trading partner to move up to get Bridgewater or Manziel.
So, if those are gone, who do you go for after that?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Maybe Bortles, but I think he is going to be drafted higher than he deserves to be.
Other than that...........no one.
I think it is imperative to put ourselves in position to get either Teddy or Johnny Football and we should move up to number 2 to make sure it gets done.
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Maybe Bortles, but I think he is going to be drafted higher than he deserves to be.
Other than that...........no one.
I think it is imperative to put ourselves in position to get either Teddy or Johnny Football and we should move up to number 2 to make sure it gets done.
Again, it takes two to tango. So another team has to be willing to trade with us.
The only real shot at that we have is St. Louis and that depends on if they still believe in Bradford. The Texans need a QB and so do the Jags.
So, if we can get the Rams to give up the 2nd pick, great. But keep in mind, there are other teams that need a QB and if Bridgewater and Manziel are REALLY the top two (as perceived by those doing the picking) then there likely to be stiff competition to get that pick away from the Rams. Not the least of which will possibly from from the Jags themselves. Oakland, Vikings and the Titans are all in the mix to one extent or the other.
The good news is, as I think you pointed out in another post, we have more ammunition than any of those other clubs.
That doesn't mean we will or even should use it all to get a guy. I forget who said they thought it would take our two 1st's and a second and third rounder to move up, I think it was Caldawg but not sure. that's a hell of a lot to give up. If we do it, I sure as hell hope he's worth it.
It's not like QB is the only hole that needs filled.
So, for a second, assuming we try to move up but fail and Manziel and Bridgewater are gone, would you be happy with Bortles at maybe 26 if he's there or that Garapolo (sp) kid in the second?
Do either have a chance? In your opinion that is
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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All Pro
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I forget who said they thought it would take our two 1st's and a second and third rounder to move up
is that really too much? we have 5 picks in the 1st three rds. that would leave us with only two picks and one would be the QB we desperately need.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Legend
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Legend
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I think Bortles has a legit chance, but I think he will need to sit for 2-3 years. I also think he will go high in the draft. Top 10.
Garoppolo is trending right now w/the people who don't want us to draft a QB high. I have not studied him as much as others because I think he will throw a lot of picks in the NFL. He has a bad tendency to force balls into tight window. That is a huge problem because while his arm isn't weak, it certainly isn't elite. Furthermore, the speed and reaction time of the defenders in the NFL blows away whatever he saw at E. Illinois and the schemes are way more complex.
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