I would expect that several things will happen this year leading to the draft. (or shortly thereafter)
Weeden will be released. (Kind f self explanatory)
Campbell will be released.(when a QB flat out says that he lost his confidence, multiple times, he makes it hard for the team to bring him back)
We access how Hoyer is healthwise, and probably look for a new veteran backup.
So we'll probably, IMHO, go to the draft with Hoyer, a similar veteran QB who Lombardi has had an eye on, and Tanney.
I fond it inconceivable that we would pass on a QB at 4, if one of the top 3 are available. This team goes as far as the QB takes them, and right now we have a question mark in Hoyer, a trick shot specialist at backup, and 2 guys likely to be gone before camp. No way that stays the status quo. I would almost put money on us taking a QB at 4, unless the top 3 go 1-2-3. I fully expect one of those top 3 to be a Cleveland Brown following the 1st round of the draft.
This team simply cannot afford to go through another year without a QB. Is it a risk taking a guy that high? Yep. However, it is a necessity created by the fact that this team has no answer at QB right now. None. We have a maybe in Hoyer, and that is it. Without a QB, this team remains a 4-5 win team. If that happens, and we don't have a young QB developing, then this blows up again. No way does Banner take that road.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Why do we want another career backup QB? We already have 3 on the team. Draft Clowney, if he's available, and draft a QB with the 2nd first round pick. Have that new QB sit behind Hoyer for a year or so, until the game has slowed down for him. The NFL rushes too many rookie QBs into the starting role, and far too many of them are not ready. We have a huge list of them that's been destroyed in Cleveland. It's rare to get a kid right out of college that's ready for the NFL QB position.
Quote: I would expect that several things will happen this year leading to the draft. (or shortly thereafter)
Weeden will be released. (Kind f self explanatory)
As crazy as it may sound, I think that Weeden might actually have some trade value to some team. Not a lot of value, 6th or 7th rounder, maybe a 5th at best to a team towards the back end of the round. If he can't be traded, I think he will be released.
Quote: Campbell will be released.(when a QB flat out says that he lost his confidence, multiple times, he makes it hard for the team to bring him back)
I'm sure that Campbell is gone by being cut. I don't think that he has any trade value. A team could simply sign Schaub if they needed a transition QB.
Quote: We assess how Hoyer is healthwise, and probably look for a new veteran backup.
I don't think we'll go with another veteran. We've gone that route a number of times since the return and it has never gone well.
Quote: So we'll probably, IMHO, go to the draft with Hoyer, a similar veteran QB who Lombardi has had an eye on, and Tanney.
Who do you think is available that the Browns won't have to trade for and which Mike Lombardi has had an eye on? I don't think there is one.
I think we go into the season with Hoyer, a drafted QB and Tanney plus a practice squad player that we pick off the UDFA pile.
Quote: I find it inconceivable that we would pass on a QB at 4, if one of the top 3 are available. This team goes as far as the QB takes them, and right now we have a question mark in Hoyer, a trick shot specialist at backup, and 2 guys likely to be gone before camp.
I don't think that it's inconceivable at all. I'm not sure that any of the 'top 3' QBs are the top 3 QBs as ranked by this front office. For that matter, I'm not sure there are 3 QBs that they consider in the draft, much less in the first round.
I also don't know that Hoyer is a question mark at all. He'll be ready for camp and should be considered the favorite to land the starting job going into the preseason.
I'm not sure that Tanney is a 'trick shot specialist' at all. There certainly should be questions about his ability to read defenses and such, but he can certainly place the ball where it needs to be put.
There is a reason why the Cowboys kept paying him. I think that the Cowboys just wanted to make sure that they had QBs with NFL experience on their game day roster.
Quote: No way that stays the status quo. I would almost put money on us taking a QB at 4, unless the top 3 go 1-2-3. I fully expect one of those top 3 to be a Cleveland Brown following the 1st round of the draft.
If you feel so strongly, then put the money down. It should be an easy bet to make. I'm not sure what they'll do. I actually expect that they'll seek a trade out of the #4 spot - for a few reasons.
1. I don't think they like the QBs being touted. Of course, many things can change between now and the draft in May.
2. If they select someone, it will a defensive player that they like who falls to them. I really don't think that they'll take a QB that high.
3. I think they want even more selections than they have now and are looking to acquire them. A trade back from #4 can add multiple selections in this draft or maybe even an additional one in a future draft besides.
4. My guess is that they're trying to change the culture in Cleveland. The most notable piece of the culture will be to get Browns fans out of the view that they'll be drafting in the Top 5 every year... or even the Top 10. My guess is that they'll be trading back (maybe multiple times) with the intention of never drafting in the Top 10 again.
It would not surprise me to find them falling to the middle of the pack, maybe trading back to Tennessee at #11 and picking up a 2nd rounder this year and 3rd next year.
Quote: This team simply cannot afford to go through another year without a QB. Is it a risk taking a guy that high? Yep. However, it is a necessity created by the fact that this team has no answer at QB right now. None.
The team won't go through the season without a QB. I don't see them drafting a QB just to draft a QB because the pundits and fans are clamoring for them to do it.
Quote: We have a maybe in Hoyer, and that is it. Without a QB, this team remains a 4-5 win team. If that happens, and we don't have a young QB developing, then this blows up again. No way does Banner take that road.
What happens if he drafts a QB high and it blows up? Or if Haslam overrules him and drafts one high and it blows up?
This is the first season that they have their own scouts doing the evaluations and aren't using the ones from the previous ownership regime. I would have said 'ownership' but it was clear that Randy Lerner had no interests at all in the Browns except how quickly could he sell the team when he was legally able to do so. The legal stipulations were spelled out in his father's last will and testament.
if Hoyer was good and you think the Stud will be better, yeah, sure.
Well yeah sure...I mean what did you think I meant when I said the student becomes better than the teacher. Then Hoyer becomes our #2.
And Obbernoober maybe he's our #2 for a season before we sell him off.
And its just a theory. One I think is a darn good one cause I saw the PATS sell off Bledsoe after Brady played his first season and they did so many things with those two Numbers ones which aided greatly in their next two SB and made them from a good team to dynasty.
I saw the Chargers sort of missed out on the opportunity cause they waited too long and Brees was being questioned if his career was over due to the shoulder surgery...Maybe why the Chargers went from a good team to...just that and nothing more.
I think said rookie would be a better QB sitting a season - if Hoyer struggles and said rookie is learning fast sure he comes in. But I still think that rookie would be a Better QB sitting even 5-7 games then starting right a way.
I think Hoyer can be a good QB but Ron Wolf said a good QB will get you to the playoffs but a Great QB can make you into a dynasty. So I'm thinking we got good and we are going to start the GREAT QB...now he's a hot hot commodity the Good QB I wish to be the PATs and get something in return for the guy who will sit and look at pictures from above with the young Great QB while the D is out there. Man you all just have been too miserable as Browns fans...right away anything bad that could happen will happen lol - Hey you know what...we are Waaaayyyy over do for good things to happen for/to us!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
A question I often have is: Why is the young backup QB not get time at the end of the season? This past season Tanney, the year before, Thad Lewis. Young guys with potential but relatively unknown actuality. The season is essentially over, we have zero chance of making the playoffs, so why not play them? Maybe Lewis shows enough to get a real shot in training camp. What do we have in Tanney? I know what Campbell can (cannot) do. I wish I knew more about Tanney. What benefit did we get from tracking Campbell out there week to week?
JMO
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: I fond it inconceivable that we would pass on a QB at 4, if one of the top 3 are available.
OH NO here we go again
Honestly, I agree with all you said about Weeden, Campbell and Hoyer and picking up a vet that is in a similar mold to Hoyer. that all makes sense.
As for going after a QB at 4 if one of the top three is there, this is again, where you and I differ.
If they pick one, I hope it's because they feel he's the right guy, not just A GUY who fills a need.
That's where teams get into trouble. That's where the Browns got in trouble with Quinn and Weeden. I just don't want to see a repeat of those mistakes.
And yeah I know that a team can look at a guy and decide he's got "IT" and go hard for him and he could fail. That happens. It's reaching to fill a need that scares the hell out of me.
Does that make sense?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I fond it inconceivable that we would pass on a QB at 4, if one of the top 3 are available.
OH NO here we go again
You really should not be laughing hysterically at him.
Your logic is based on us reaching for Quinn and Weeden. What does that have to do w/the three QBs of this year?
I think that all three QBs are worthy of being picked that high. None of them would be a reach at that point in the draft.
You may not think they are, but what are you basing your opinion off of? You admitted to not watching them during the season. You have said you are not a great evaluator of talent. So again, how in the heck can you say we would be reaching if we drafted a Bridgewater and how in the hell would it cause you to laugh uncontrollably at YTown?
Quote: A question I often have is: Why is the young backup QB not get time at the end of the season? This past season Tanney, the year before, Thad Lewis. Young guys with potential but relatively unknown actuality. The season is essentially over, we have zero chance of making the playoffs, so why not play them? Maybe Lewis shows enough to get a real shot in training camp. What do we have in Tanney? I know what Campbell can (cannot) do. I wish I knew more about Tanney. What benefit did we get from tracking Campbell out there week to week?
JMO
That is a fair question. When the season is essentially lost, why not put the backups in to see what kind of value you can get for them. You might actually be able to trade them and get something in return or you'll know what you have in them in a game-time situation.
Week after week, Campbell was trotted out there. Week after week, the Browns chalked up another loss. Weeden was yanked after two weeks in favor of Hoyer. Then he was yanked again after back-to-back losses in the games after Hoyer went down. But, why then was Campbell allowed to rack up loss after loss?
What we do know is that Hoyer led the team. We also know that Weeden and Campbell can't.
When they brought in Tanney, he should have been moved into the back-up role or even the starter after it was clear that Weeden & Campbell wouldn't get the job done. We signed him with 5 games to go. When the fork was secured in the Browns after game handed to the Patriots by the refs, why not start Tanney for the final three games? What could you lose at that point?
nobody on this board is a great evaluator of talent.
if that was the case, we wouldn't be posting on boards. we be either writing for ESPN or working for the Browns or other teams.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Quote: Your logic is based on us reaching for Quinn and Weeden. What does that have to do w/the three QBs of this year?
Nothing really. It just sticks in his craw as being historically accurate from the Browns past (recent enough too).
Quote: I think that all three QBs are worthy of being picked that high. None of them would be a reach at that point in the draft.
We'll have to differ here. I don't think that any of them are worth it. Not a single one.
If the team decides that one of them is the person that they want and he is there, then take him. I may not agree, but I'll be okay with it. It's the taking the man just because you'll take criticism from the fans and media if you don't choices that I can't stand.
I don't see Banner doing it. He traded away two picks in last year's draft (one to Indy and one to Putzburgh) because they didn't see the value in the players available. I don't see him suddenly changing his philosophy this year.
I simply don't see it happening. I more apt to think that they'll wait until later in the first round or later into the draft to draft a QB. Just my guess. We can't really ask Michael Lombardi and expect to get a legitimate response on his QB evaluations.
Not specifically regarding the QBs, but here is what my observations about the structure of the draft decisions are with the Browns and the input they each gets.
Haslam: Final decisions if he wants to exercise them. Banner: De facto decision maker if Haslam doesn't trump him. Lombardi: Top talent evaluator. He'll provide Banner and Haslam his evaluations for each player scouted and maybe even include input from the coaches. Pettine: He'll tell Lombardi about his evaluations of the current players on the team and where he believes the team needs upgrades and how urgently he feels the upgrades are needed.
That's essentially how I see it. The same will apply similarly to the free agent pool of players prior to the draft. Furthermore, much of this work has already been done. There are only the combines left to go to tweak the evaluations.
because somebody would've already been throwing around their qualifications on this board if that was the case. like some already do now.
hardly hogwash. don't get upset if i somehow struck a nerve with that comment. it's true and i stand by it. you, me, others, are FANS, nothing more, nothing less.
you THINK some people are better at talent evaluation than others. hell, i can pick some random third rounder from another team, be like, yea that guy is going to be good. if it happens? did i do a great job at evaluating? or did i just get lucky cause i saw him play in college?
the draft is a crap shoot.
back on topic. Kirk Cousins. 4th round pick. there's a reason NOBODY picked him up until the 4th round.
could he end up being a starter, a franchise QB? sure, anything is possible. but nobody goes into a minicamp or the preseason thinking that the 3rd or 4th round qB is going to beat the guy that paid millions or traded to get. it just HAPPENS that way because they ended up playing better than the percieve starter, ala Russell Wilson.
you keep saying none of those guys at the top are worth it, then why would you draft a QB period? you make no sense to me sometimes. our #1 need on this team is a QB. it has ALWAYS been our #1 need. sorry if i don't get why you wanna get low round talent when high round talent is available to us for the picking.
Last edited by Swish; 02/09/1410:37 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Quote: nobody on this board is a great evaluator of talent.
if that was the case, we wouldn't be posting on boards. we be either writing for ESPN or working for the Browns or other teams.
That's hogwash. Some are just better at it than others. Also, how do you know that some posters here don't have professional careers in those ranks?
Not to mention some of us may have changed careers because football is just a game and they wanted to do some real good in the world. Not everyone who knows how to evaluate talent sells their life to do so. In fact I guarantee some of the best have a higher conscious and choose to commit their life elsewhere for the greater good.
Quote: The team won't go through the season without a QB. I don't see them drafting a QB just to draft a QB because the pundits and fans are clamoring for them to do it.
I agree with this.
I disagree with those who seem to think that "all three QB's are worthy of the #4 pick".
I believe all of the QB's in this draft class will be evaluated and we will have a target. I don't buy into the notion that it's an "insert name here" type of thing. Not with such a high and valuable pick.
I believe if someone worthy in their estimation is there at #4, they will use it however. I believe the only way they can convince the fans "we won't be drafting in the top 10 every year" is to win enough games to not be drafting there, not by trading out of it.
But I'm not excluding that they may trade down out of #4 if they don't feel a player worthy of the selection is there.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
as a fan, if Teddy is there at #4 and we don't take him or trade down, i'm going to flip.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Quote: I fond it inconceivable that we would pass on a QB at 4, if one of the top 3 are available.
OH NO here we go again
You really should not be laughing hysterically at him.
Your logic is based on us reaching for Quinn and Weeden. What does that have to do w/the three QBs of this year?
I think that all three QBs are worthy of being picked that high. None of them would be a reach at that point in the draft.
You may not think they are, but what are you basing your opinion off of? You admitted to not watching them during the season. You have said you are not a great evaluator of talent. So again, how in the heck can you say we would be reaching if we drafted a Bridgewater and how in the hell would it cause you to laugh uncontrollably at YTown?
I think that Ytown knows what I'm saying..
Let me ask you Oh Wise and All Knowing one. Who of the Top three QB's in this draft would you say is absolutely on par coming out of college with Payton Manning or Andrew Luck?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I am of the opinion that this front office is really heavily researching this draft as hard as they can, and that they will have a heavy preference at QB going into the draft. I do believe that we will take a QB with our 1st pick, be it our pick, o a trade up. This team needs a QB. If they pass on a QB, after specifically trading Trent for a pick with which to move up if necessary to get a QB, then I believe that it will be a disaster. They evidently saw enough from top QBs in this draft when they made the trade, and I don't think that (especially) Bridgewater and Manziel have fallen. Some believe that Bortles could be the top player taken. People will freak out over all kinds of reports from the combine and other sources, but I remember a young CB running poorly at the combine several years ago, and the whole world freaking out because that meant that he was slow, and would drop like a rock. That CB was Joe Haden. We drafted him anyway, basing our decision more on his career on the field than on one run at the combine.
We'll see what happens ...... but I bet that at least 2 of the QBs in this draft that are sitting solidly at the top of our draft chart. While they might not be the best players in the draft, they are the best at a position of absolute desperation for this team. We could take Clowney, but he has major red flags as far as maturity and attitude. I can't see us going OT at #1 with Joe Thomas on the team, unless we are going to trade Thomas for a 1st rounder this year. WR? Maybe ...... but this seems to be a fairly deep draft for WR, and I believe that we can draft a very good receiver with our 2nd or 3rd picks.
I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert on this draft, but looking at the CBS Draft Rankings .... which, granted, are just one set of rankings ....... but, they have 3 QB, 2 OT, a WR, and a DE in the top 7 players in this draft. No need for OT ..... don't like a WR at 4 ....... hate the idea of picking Clowney, because I thin he's an unmotivated prima donna....... that leaves 3 QB. I don't think that it's such a huge leap to think that we might try for our preferred guy, but take the best remaining if our #1 guy is gone when we draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Let me ask you Oh Wise and All Knowing one. Who of the Top three QB's in this draft would you say is absolutely on par coming out of college with Payton Manning or Andrew Luck?
Quote: I don't see Banner doing it. He traded away two picks in last year's draft (one to Indy and one to Putzburgh) because they didn't see the value in the players available. I don't see him suddenly changing his philosophy this year.
I simply don't see it happening. I more apt to think that they'll wait until later in the first round or later into the draft to draft a QB. Just my guess.
I disagree. I think he made moves in last year's draft and traded TRich to better position himself to take a QB high in this draft.
Quote: I don't see Banner doing it. He traded away two picks in last year's draft (one to Indy and one to Putzburgh) because they didn't see the value in the players available. I don't see him suddenly changing his philosophy this year.
I simply don't see it happening. I more apt to think that they'll wait until later in the first round or later into the draft to draft a QB. Just my guess.
I disagree. I think he made moves in last year's draft and traded TRich to better position himself to take a QB high in this draft.
I'd bet on this. I would not be one bit upset if they did come out and disclose that after all was said and done they didn't see one being of value at 4...But I don't think that's gonna happen.
I really hate the idea of having to trade that colts pick to move up..... If we do trade, I would rather it be when we are on the clock and not some sort of thing where the rams had an auction for RGIII.
I think the Vikings could make a move to come up for a QB. They are kind of in no mans land with the top three probably gone, and having to decide if Carr is worth it...
I still think the rams should be looking at WR or offensive line with their pick. For as well as they did with the future picks in the RGIII thing, I think they missed out on their guy. I think that will give them some pause about trading out of the guaranteed impact player. OR at least keeps the browns in play for trading/trumping whatever the vikes could be offering to move up.
If Teddy lands at #4- I'd have to think that is best case scenario. People talk about Teddy being small, but compare him to Manziel and what is the difference in stature??
Quote: I think he made moves in last year's draft and traded TRich to better position himself to take a QB high in this draft.
I know other posters feel the same way, Vers, but I don't believe that to be the case. I'm of the opinion ( ) that the deal was done because Banner saw tremendous value in doing so. Of course it gives him more ammo to trade up for a QB, but I believe this was a fallout from the trade, not a motivator for it...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Quote: Let me ask you Oh Wise and All Knowing one. Who of the Top three QB's in this draft would you say is absolutely on par coming out of college with Payton Manning or Andrew Luck?
So irrelevant.
If you based every years draft prospects on when people better than them were picked in previous years you'd never be able to pick someone.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quote: I think he made moves in last year's draft and traded TRich to better position himself to take a QB high in this draft.
I know other posters feel the same way, Vers, but I don't believe that to be the case. I'm of the opinion ( ) that the deal was done because Banner saw tremendous value in doing so. Of course it gives him more ammo to trade up for a QB, but I believe this was a fallout from the trade, not a motivator for it...
Is it a factor that we sought out the trade? We called Indy. No one had any offers on the table. Who knows what value TRich offered until we received it. To me that says our FO was seeking to stockpile picks.
From what I've seen on the Indy boards they go both ways too...
Reports that other GMs were upset because they would of given up "more than a 1st" are out there too..
I think the FO found a deal, and did it, shopping Richardson would of been a PR nightmare... Look what happened with just rumors of them shopping Gordon...
We got a 1st for a guy who barely contributes, I'm not ganna fret over what we "could have" gotten..
3 carries, 1 yard
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quote: Tell you one thing, in retrospect, I would rather have had some of the guys here doing the drafting instead of the guys who did.
Great. I don't mind what they did at all. I wish they would have gotten more for it. However, in retrospect, I'm perfectly fine with what the front office did in trading with Indy & Putzburgh.
Quote: nobody on this board is a great evaluator of talent.
if that was the case, we wouldn't be posting on boards. we be either writing for ESPN or working for the Browns or other teams.
That's hogwash. Some are just better at it than others. Also, how do you know that some posters here don't have professional careers in those ranks?
Not to mention some of us may have changed careers because football is just a game and they wanted to do some real good in the world. Not everyone who knows how to evaluate talent sells their life to do so. In fact I guarantee some of the best have a higher conscious and choose to commit their life elsewhere for the greater good.
Very true. There are many people that are good judges of talent, whether it's evaluating football or who the best short order cook for a diner would be.
A high school football coach in rural Kentucky may wish to remain at that job instead of being a talent evaluator for an NFL team or as a talking head on the radio or TV.
A trader on Wall Street may like the quick action and the movement of money more than becoming an NFL scout.
A doctor or nurse in a hospital may love their jobs more than being an NFL scout and choose that profession.
That someone finds that difficult to understand is actually deflating. Was it Swish that stated that originally? My God, how shallow his thought processes must be? Incredible.
i'm shallow now? man, i must of struck a nerve. continue crying though, you're just looking like a baby.
my opinion stands.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Quote: nobody on this board is a great evaluator of talent.
if that was the case, we wouldn't be posting on boards. we be either writing for ESPN or working for the Browns or other teams.
Ok I will fess up, I am Mike Lombardi. the reasons i am never at press conferences is becauser im busy posting here on dawgtalkers.net. there the cat is out of the bag now. seriously just because someone doesnt have a job in the NFL, or ESPN doesnt mean they dont know talent when they see it. I myself have been right about alot of players, and been wrong about alot of players. By your comment everything Mel Kiper says should be 100% accurate, and how many times has he been waaaay off or wrong about players.
we post our mock drafts, talk up certain players, discuss possible trades because we are fans, we enjoy discussing every aspect of the Browns. Thus the reason this board has been around for so long. If you dont like the opinions of us fellow dawgtalkers then perhaps you should just stick to ESPN.com for all your football needs.
sorry, but i've paid attention to everybody's mock drafts and such, whether its this board or the other one.
we are fans, and all of y'all, definitely including me, has either been 50/50 or worse when it comes to talent, ESPECIALLY on our team.
so if i struck a nerve by not encouraging your ego's, then all well. but thats my opinion, and unless you have proof to debunk my opinion, IE, your own person draft that has been more successful on our team, then you have no ground to stand on.
sorry bout it. thats the way it is.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
because you got people on this board acting like they are better than other posters because they THINK they know how to evaluate talent. THATS what i have a problem with.
sorry, thats how it see it. its all fun to speculate, and we are fans. i dunno why you say i need to go to espn.com when i said exactly what you just said, we do this for fun.
but you have posters acting like they no better about players than other posters and are berating them for it. THATS the issue.
and please, hows your talent evaluation for our players since 99 gone? yea...about as good as everybody elses, including mind, which means, not too good.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
- Hey you know what...we are Waaaayyyy over do for good things to happen for/to us! 
) that the deal was done because Banner saw tremendous value in doing so. Of course it gives him more ammo to trade up for a QB, but I believe this was a fallout from the trade, not a motivator for it...
