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I wouldn't pass on a guy that I know can play because he might get hurt..
I would gameplan and build my team so that he avoids that...
Basically your saying Teddy isn't tough enough for the NFL. And I don't think his size has anything to do with that...
Any QB can get hit and taken out on any play. To build your team around the idea that this guy has a "better" chance to get hurt is silly...
If he can play, you take him.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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My very words on Weeden when we drafted him was, !#$@#$ I am gonna go root for Buffalo. I had a late 3rd on him but I also said I would not take RG3 top 15 because of his slim frame and the hits he was taking.
I would take Mazniel and Carr over Bridgewater at this point. I am basing on them where they are at now. If bridgewater shows me at the combines he can easily bulk up then he would jump Carr in my opinion. Would be very hard to jump Manziel just because of the leadership and dire need of that by the Browns.
Brees was traded when they drafted a bigger QB. Rogers sat for a long time. We cant really wait for a QB to hit puberty. We will see where he is at soon enough.
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Quote:
Brees was traded when they drafted a bigger QB.
Brees played in front of Rivers for a few years and would have stayed if he didn't get injured.
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He was also never traded. They let him leave because they had Rivers..
Damn Charlie Frye Experiment.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
I wouldn't pass on a guy that I know can play because he might get hurt..
I would gameplan and build my team so that he avoids that...
Basically your saying Teddy isn't tough enough for the NFL. And I don't think his size has anything to do with that...
Its not saying anything about him being tough enough. Its all about risk/reward. You dont get fired for passing on a player, you get fired for not hitting on the one you did draft.
RG3 was fantastic as a rookie, gets injured, guess what people started getting fired.
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Would you rather get fired because Teddy came in and showed promise but got hurt, or get fired because you drafted someone else who wasn't as good?
You're still getting fired.
You take the better guy.
I'm not SAYING he's the better guy (IMO he is) I'm just saying that NOT drafting a guy because he "might get hurt" is a slippery slope..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I am not real picky when it comes to these 3 QB's. As long as the Browns end up with 1 of them. The only way I would would trade up is if I was sure that none would fall to #4. Why? Because I am not sure who the better pro QB will be. They all have the potential to be all pro and have the talent to lead a team to a deep playoff run.
The question I would have is which of the 3 QB's have the best work ethic? Which one is the gym rat? Which one a study nut? That would be who I target.
Bridgewater is the most NFL ready right now mentally. Manziel has the best leadership skills and the want to when the game is on the line. Bortles just might have the biggest upside. With that he might also have the biggest bust potential also.
I will not be upset if the Browns end up with any of these 3. I absolutely love Sammy Watkins but this team has to have a QB. Not for 2014 but for the future. This team has the talent, ammo in the draft, and cap space to make a move in 2014. With that said the future QB cannot wait another season. Draft one and bring him up right and at his rate of readiness. It does not matter where a QB is drafted they should not play until they are ready and not be rushed into action.
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brady was out for the season because somebody fell around his legs and he went down awkwardly, ala Hoyer.
freak injuries happen every year, its part of the game.
Last edited by Swish; 02/13/14 09:57 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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j/c Below is my answer to the critics of Bridgewater's size.... I googled, Joe Montana's playing weight and came up with the following: linkAny responder who gets the impulse to claim I am comparing Bridgewater to a hall of famer, the answer is obvious that I am but only in terms of physical dimensions.
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Pit, it comes down to this for me.
--There are three qbs w/top of the draft grades. Bortles is a little bit iffy, but some have him going first overall.
--We have the 4th overall pick.
--We have the ammunition to trade up if we want to.
--We do not have a QB who has proven to be a franchise guy.
--It is said that getting a franchise QB is the most important part of the football team, and I am including the coaching staff and FO.
--We might not be in this position again.
Vers, I agree with what you're saying here, but what I bolded above is, what I think, the crux of the issue. We cannot afford to put it off another year because we have primed ourselves to take a QB early this year.
If we do not go QB high this year then we have all those prime picks to use elsewhere. We have a good draft and find ourselves with 6 or 7 wins. Next year we're further away from picking a franchise QB and don't have the goods to move up from #12, or whatever.
Then what? Trade for a Mallet?
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I don't think that is what he is saying, but I also get what you are saying. LOL
Pit, it comes down to this for me.
--There are three qbs w/top of the draft grades. Bortles is a little bit iffy, but some have him going first overall.
--We have the 4th overall pick.
--We have the ammunition to trade up if we want to.
--We do not have a QB who has proven to be a franchise guy.
--It is said that getting a franchise QB is the most important part of the football team, and I am including the coaching staff and FO.
--We might not be in this position again.
Man, I think we should do whatever we have to do in order to draft Teddy or Manziel. I prefer Teddy, but Houston might not budge. I think it would be a big mistake to allow a team like Jacksonville, Minni, etc to jump us and draft one of those guys leaving us holding our junk.
Pit, let me ask you this..............do you think we would be in this position today if we would have drafted Ben over K2? Would we have been in this position if we drafted Rodgers instead of Leon?
I don't. It's time to buck up and grab a daggone franchise qb.
Sign me up! 
It's time to END this BS.
GO GET the damn QB we have highly rated. The talent is there to be had. These are not Ponder and Gabbert type talents. No Luck either, but these guys are damn good.
Folks say wait till next year. Guess what folks. If you don't wanna pony-up and use next years 1st rounder or even just multiple picks this year for a QB, you'll DIE when you see what it takes to move up next year when we're starting in the 15 slot.
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If any of these guys is a Matt Ryan level talent - which is where I put the "solid starter" line - then we need to ensure that we get at least one of them, and the best of them if possible.
I also seriously want to take a second QB like Mettenberger late in the draft. We really need to hedge bets while also improving our chances of hitting on something.
If we come away with nothing but solid players at QB, G, and ILB I will be super happy with this draft.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I don't think that is what he is saying, but I also get what you are saying. LOL
Pit, it comes down to this for me.
--There are three qbs w/top of the draft grades. Bortles is a little bit iffy, but some have him going first overall.
--We have the 4th overall pick.
--We have the ammunition to trade up if we want to.
--We do not have a QB who has proven to be a franchise guy.
--It is said that getting a franchise QB is the most important part of the football team, and I am including the coaching staff and FO.
--We might not be in this position again.
Man, I think we should do whatever we have to do in order to draft Teddy or Manziel. I prefer Teddy, but Houston might not budge. I think it would be a big mistake to allow a team like Jacksonville, Minni, etc to jump us and draft one of those guys leaving us holding our junk.
Pit, let me ask you this..............do you think we would be in this position today if we would have drafted Ben over K2? Would we have been in this position if we drafted Rodgers instead of Leon?
I don't. It's time to buck up and grab a daggone franchise qb.
I agree with everything except that we have the ammunition to move up if we want to. We can want to, we can throw the entire draft at Houston to move up and they can still say no.
As for your final comment, again, I can't disagree. I hope we do find one. Taking a guy to take a guy isn't the answer, you gotta get the right guy and you can sometimes find them out of the first round. Taking the wrong guy is a bigger mistake than taking nobody. (See Couch, Weeden, Quinn in the first round and Frye and McCoy later rounds)
Last edited by Damanshot; 02/14/14 09:31 AM.
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j/c
Below is my answer to the critics of Bridgewater's size....
I googled, Joe Montana's playing weight and came up with the following:
link
Any responder who gets the impulse to claim I am comparing Bridgewater to a hall of famer, the answer is obvious that I am but only in terms of physical dimensions.
I understand your argument but have to point out two things; that was a different time / a different NFL AND Bridgewater is NO JOE MONTANA!
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" I would take Mazniel and Carr over Bridgewater at this point. I am basing on them where they are at now. If bridgewater shows me at the combines he can easily bulk up then he would jump Carr in my opinion. Would be very hard to jump Manziel just because of the leadership and dire need of that by the Browns."
=====================================================
Really I do not know what to say about your analysis.
If I understand what you are saying that Bridgewater who is listed at 6'3"
205 lb's and 21 years old; that because of that you rank him behind Manziel and Carr.
All of what he has done on the field is negated because of his weight at 21 years of age.
The fact that he has a three year college career avg. 68.4% completion rate, 72 TD's with 24 int's (junior year 31 TD's 4 int's), and thrown for 9,987 yds. His Sugar Bowl game destruction of Florida as a sophomore (Game MVP) and his final game against Miami where he was 35 of 42 for 447 yds. and again game MVP. All that is out the window because he needs to gain 10 or 15 lbs.
I tell what I will buy the donuts and draft him.
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Basically your saying Teddy isn't tough enough for the NFL. And I don't think his size has anything to do with that...
May I ask what you are talking about?
I have been saying we should draft Teddy for months now. I am one of the few in favor of moving up to get him.
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If any of these guys is a Matt Ryan level talent - which is where I put the "solid starter" line - then we need to ensure that we get at least one of them, and the best of them if possible.
I personally think Teddy is FAR superior than Ryan.
I think Manziel's ceiling is way higher, but he also has more of a bust factor.
Bortles? Weaker arm. More mobility. Better in the clutch.
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I'm curious, in what aspects do you think Teddy is far superior to Matt Ryan? Because I find them fairly similar from when Ryan was coming out of BC... Very cerebral, thin, above average arm but not great, pretty accurate...
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
I'm curious, in what aspects do you think Teddy is far superior to Matt Ryan? Because I find them fairly similar from when Ryan was coming out of BC... Very cerebral, thin, above average arm but not great, pretty accurate...
I'll let Vers answer his as well, but I would have Bridgewater a higher QB prospect than Ryan coming out.
Ryan:
2 seasons of starting.
Junior year was incredibly pedestrian. 15TD,10Int, 2900yds. So, his average game was about: 225yds, 1TD, 0.75Int
Senior year, they let him loose, but to varying results. He trusted his arm too much and gambled too often. He ended up having 31TDs(great), but 19INT(yuck). His average game that year was about: 325yds, 2.25TD, 1.25INT
I remember lots of comparisons to Brett Favre and people wondering if he could figure out when to throw it and when to throw it away. Of course, in the NFL, he has gone on to keep his accuracy while never throwing 19INT in a season despite having several more games per year.
================
Bridgewater -
Started 3 seasons
Much like Ryan, in his first year, Teddy was a ball-control QB his sophomore year with about per game: 200yds, 1TD, 1INT
But, unlike Ryan, when they let Teddy loose his last 2 seasons (instead of 1), he rewarded them with high yards and TDs, but also kept the INTs in check. He also steadily progressed each year in all categories, which is a good sign too.
Junior year approx average per game: 275yds, 2TD, .5INT
Senior year approx average per game: 300yds, 2.5TD, .25INT
Now, realize they play different systems in different leagues and college football has changed a bunch from Ryan's time to now. But, the basic concepts still remain.
Ryan was drafted that high because he was prototypical size, a good arm, he could fit the ball into tight windows (even though he tried too often), and he had a good knowledge of reads.
Bridgewater will be drafted high because despite not being prototypical size, he has great knowledge of the game, a good arm, and an ability to continue to make plays while shifting the pocket (mobility).
I have no idea if Teddy will become as good or better than Ryan. But, as a draft prospect, I certainly can see how Bridgewater could be ranked ahead.
#gmstrong
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A few reasons:
--I think Teddy is one of the smartest qbs to come out of college in a long time. I am not talking about his academics. I am talking about football smart. He makes great reads at the LOS. He recognizes when teams are going to blitz and checks into the proper play. He is very astute at reading coverages and exploits holes in your secondary. Ryan is intelligent, but Teddy compares to Rodgers and Manning in this regard.
--I think Teddy is much better in the clutch. I know they call him Matty Ice, but the guy makes some really dumb reads [looked to be caused by nerves] in important situations. Teddy seems to thrive under pressure.
--Teddy is far more mobile than Ryan. I know he doesn't bust off a lot of big runs, but he could if he wanted to. Instead, he buys time in the pocket while keeping his eyes down the field to make plays w/his arm. Teddy won't be as prone to sacks as Ryan.
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j/c Manziel, in an interview with comments on the Browns. Manziel says he'll pour his heart and soul into the Dawg Pound. Sounds like he is maturing as well. Manziel on the Browns
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Should have quoted him, so people can see how full of himself and arrogant he is: Quote:
"If something happens, and it’s the Cleveland Browns, I’m going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland,” Manziel said to reporters John McClain of the Chronicle and Charean Williams of the Star-Telegram. “I don’t care if they’ve had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I’m going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl.”
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It's a nice read, but it's pretty clear that it is architected as a means for he and his agent to work on improving public perception of him and his image because they know his value is greatest if they can put to rest the whole "Johnny Football" image.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Yeah who wants a qb who believes in himself?
"Johnny, aren't you concerned that Cleveland has had 20 starting QBs since 99?"
"Yes, very. I will be bug number 21 on the Cleveland browns QB windshield until they replace my failure with another."
Better?
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Quote:
Yeah who wants a qb who believes in himself?
"Johnny, aren't you concerned that Cleveland has had 20 starting QBs since 99?"
"Yes, very. I will be bug number 21 on the Cleveland browns QB windshield until they replace my failure with another."
Better?
Or better yet.
"No, not Cleveland, that place is curse. Anywhere but the mistake by the lake, that's where QB's go to die. I can't win there, I don't think anyone can really"
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j/c
I really don't put any stock into PR statements one way or the other. It has no impact on how a player produces or develops in the NFL.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
Yeah who wants a qb who believes in himself?
"Johnny, aren't you concerned that Cleveland has had 20 starting QBs since 99?"
"Yes, very. I will be bug number 21 on the Cleveland browns QB windshield until they replace my failure with another."
Better?
Or better yet.
"No, not Cleveland, that place is curse. Anywhere but the mistake by the lake, that's where QB's go to die. I can't win there, I don't think anyone can really"
I prefer, "Just think of me as McCoy 2.0."
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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j/c...
Throwing at the combine is only good for those looking to prove themselves and move up the draft charts. Point blank its in a why do it if you are ranked pretty high up Top 5 especially. It would be different if there is no precedent on that but its been going on for years.
I'm curious if he'll throw for us when we ask him to visit our facilities after the combine and before the draft 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Should have quoted him, so people can see how full of himself and arrogant he is:
Quote:
"If something happens, and it’s the Cleveland Browns, I’m going to pour my heart out for the Dawg Pound and try to win a Super Bowl for Cleveland,” Manziel said to reporters John McClain of the Chronicle and Charean Williams of the Star-Telegram. “I don’t care if they’ve had 20 starting quarterbacks since 1999. I’m going to be the 21st and the guy that brought them the Super Bowl.”
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. he obviously doesn't think that he should fall to 4, but if he does, then he is committed to being great. I am fine with that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I know...that's the kind of cockiness I want from my QB! How can a dawg complain from that???  was it a complaint?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I know...that's the kind of cockiness I want from my QB! How can a dawg complain from that??? was it a complaint?
Indeed it was a complaint. Guess after all these years of being a Brown's fan, I'm just getting sick of the 'talk' and sick of the promises made but never unfolding or panning out from players, coaches, front office, etc... Jimmy sumed my feelings up well when he said "talk is cheap", cause he just has no idea how much talked we've endured. Talk talk talk, whatever happened to shutting up your pieholes and just DOING it? At 29 years old, am I too old fashioned?
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Quote:
It's a nice read, but it's pretty clear that it is architected as a means for he and his agent to work on improving public perception of him and his image because they know his value is greatest if they can put to rest the whole "Johnny Football" image.
I'm sorry, but you just don't know Johnny Football.
This quote is directly in-line with his Johnny Football persona and it isn't going away anytime soon. It's just who he is. Johnny Football isn't afraid of 15years of failure. Johnny Football isn't afraid of stories of Couch and Quinn and Weeden before him. Johnny Football is destined to be a savior for whatever franchise picks him and if that franchise is the Cleveland Browns then they will be happy.
That is pretty much how I read his quote. Anyways, it could be just what we need to finally shake off the stench of failure. Or, it could be his bravado that takes us to new lows. I don't know.
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The team needs someone that believes. The fan base needs Johny football as much as the team does, whether they want him or not.
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The team needs someone that believes. The fan base needs Johny football as much as the team does, whether they want him or not.
We need someone who can win, plain and simple. Be it Bridgewater or Manziel, I don't particularly care for the style. I'm fine with either.... JUST WIN
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Quote:
Quote:
Basically your saying Teddy isn't tough enough for the NFL. And I don't think his size has anything to do with that...
May I ask what you are talking about?
I have been saying we should draft Teddy for months now. I am one of the few in favor of moving up to get him.
I was talking to Mourg. Sorry..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Basically your saying Teddy isn't tough enough for the NFL. And I don't think his size has anything to do with that...
May I ask what you are talking about?
I have been saying we should draft Teddy for months now. I am one of the few in favor of moving up to get him.
I was talking to Mourg. Sorry..
 Dont let it happen again every post should be directed at Vers 
Joe Thomas #73
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I was thinking Manziel was probably going to be our new QB, but now with the regime change, I don't know if whoever does the pickin' is gonna want him or not. Regardless, it still wouldn't surprise me one bit if he is our QB pick.
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I agree. Johnny Football believes.
It sure beats the things some of our previous qbs have said, such as "I'm gonna work hard and see where things go."
This team needs a shot of attitude. Not BS cockiness, but a guy who really does believe in himself and won't quit when things get tough.
I still want Teddy because I think he is the smartest qb to come out since Rodgers, even smarter than Luck. But man, if ever a team needed a Johnny Football, it's the Cleveland Browns.
My biggest concern w/him is how often he runs up the middle. I worry about him getting hurt. But, no one can make plays like that kid and I love play makers at QB.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
yeah, I have mixed feelings on him because I don't know if he will adapt to the pro-game without falling on his face first (the running, I don't know how his off-field work ethic is, etc.).
he'd definitely be interesting though, and the Cleveland Browns are an interesting team if nothing else.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
It could be worse for him...
He could wind up in Jacksonville... Or even Oakland..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Johnny Manziel (Again)
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