yes, it is true, but the odds are that most players who have not signed by this time are going to want to test FA. the fact we haven't heard anything about Ward is a bit worrisome. it seems that Mack must have told them he was going to FA this past weekend, which left us no choice but to protect ourselves with the tag (well, the other choice was to protect ourselves from Ward leaving, but we had to do something and I'm glad we used a tag).
Looks like the first real meeting with Mack happened over this past weekend. The article makes it appear that Mack is very wary about signing on with the factory of sadness any longer. Whatever he's feeling in that regard, it's hard to blame him. Still, he's got to at least be curious about playing in Shanny's system, which is supposedly good for a lineman like him.
Also, Mack said earlier in the season (before the FO ridiculousness), that he wanted to stay here (the usual blah blah blah), but he wanted to test free agency to see what he would get. So Mack going and talking to other teams really shouldn't be a surprise, it's what he's wanted to do for a while now. What he does after that is what could be a shock. Those articles made it sound like he wants to make the big bucks, and he wants to do it here in Cleveland.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
Quote: I am pretty sure we can continue to negotiate. But remember, teams can start meeting with free agents from other teams without signing them on March 8th.
Good point, I forgot all about it. Just makes the window that much smaller.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
transition tag? bet mack is pissed. lost 1 mil and no team will talk to him when they would have to pay 10 mil for a center.
that part is not true. they can give him any contract they want. the Browns would have to either match those terms (and keep Mack) or refuse those terms (and the opposing team gets him).
it will make teams wait on him as they won't want to tie up their cap money and so may hurt his market value, but no team HAS to pay him $10mil/year
transition tag? bet mack is pissed. lost 1 mil and no team will talk to him when they would have to pay 10 mil for a center.
that part is not true. they can give him any contract they want. the Browns would have to either match those terms (and keep Mack) or refuse those terms (and the opposing team gets him).
it will make teams wait on him as they won't want to tie up their cap money and so may hurt his market value, but no team HAS to pay him $10mil/year
think you are wrong.
Tony Grossi ‏@TonyGrossi · 34m #Browns C Alex Mack gets transition tag ($10.039m) as opposed to franchise ($11.654).
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
Mack is free to sign any contract with any team when FA starts and the Browns have the chance to match it. If they choose to do so, Mack stays in Cleveland.
The $10M is if Mack gets no other offer and he doesn't choose to negotiate a long-term deal w' Cleveland. Then he would need to sign the tag....or holdout.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
He is not wrong. The $10 mil number is what we have to pay him if no one signs him to an offer sheet. If someone signs him we have the right to match whatever is agreed to. We can also negotiate with him on a long term deal. This tag gives Mack the right to try free agency, while protecting Cleveland from losing him without a chance to sign him..
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns have designated Alex Mack as their transition player for 2014, meaning they can match any offer for Mack.
If Mack plays under the tag, he would receive $10.039 million for 2014.
A team signing the Pro Bowl center would not owe the Browns any compensation.
Teams can begin contacting Mack on March 8, and extend offers March 11, the start of free agency.
Meanwhile, the Browns chose not to franchise safety T.J. Ward, meaning he'll likely hit the free-agent market.
If they lose Ward, they can always pursue Bills Pro Bowl safety Jairus Byrd, who wasn't franchised today.
Bills general manager Doug Whaley released the following statement today: "We have negotiated with representation for Jairus Byrd for more than a year, but have yet to reach an agreement on a contract extension. We remain open to getting a deal done with Jairus, but we have chosen not to use the franchise tag on any of our impending unrestricted free agents."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Just spitballing, but maybe we think that Mack's camp overvalues what they can get on the open market and the Browns can get a better price if we actually let them put that theory to the test?
I actually think this is a great move for both sides, Mack can negotiate with whoever he wants, and the browns let other teams determine his value, if they agree with it, boom...all the negotiation is already done for them.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Quote: Just spitballing, but maybe we think that Mack's camp overvalues what they can get on the open market and the Browns can get a better price if we actually let them put that theory to the test?
Quote: Just spitballing, but maybe we think that Mack's camp overvalues what they can get on the open market and the Browns can get a better price if we actually let them put that theory to the test?
Mack is going to be the highest paid center ever either way. I doubt he will sign any offer sheet. As of right now he doesn't want to sign with the Browns long term. Signing a long term contract with another team will allow the Browns to match and lock him up.
Quote: Just spitballing, but maybe we think that Mack's camp overvalues what they can get on the open market and the Browns can get a better price if we actually let them put that theory to the test?
Mack is going to be the highest paid center ever either way. I doubt he will sign any offer sheet. As of right now he doesn't want to sign with the Browns long term. Signing a long term contract with another team will allow the Browns to match and lock him up.
It would be a win win, a contender isn't going to sign him to a huge contract and he doesn't want to take a big contract from a bottom feeder and get stuck there, he might as well have stayed in Cleveland.
Quote: Steve you're gonna have to explain this to me, but from what I've read is that if we match he HAS to sign with us.
No you're right that we have matching rights for any deal. I guess it's not a bad thing, but if we don't match we don't get anything. Better than just letting him go to FA I guess. Puts us in a position to get trolled like Belichik did with the steelers last year but I don't know... Transition tag just seems toothless to me.
I think it's letting Alex have the right to get the best offer available and making him stick to his word of letting us match any offer. We're letting other teams dictate his contract. This is important to mention
POISON PILLS NO LONGER EXIST BECAUSE OF THE CBA
I think there is zero, 0%, chance the FO lets Mack go. They did this with the intention of matching any offer. The only exception is if someone overpays to a beyond record level.
Quote: This is dumb in my opinion. Transition tag number is $10 million. Franchise tag number is $11.5 million. Transition tag offers no compensation if we don't match the offer. We're risking losing him with no compensation over $1.5 million bucks and we have $56 million in free space? The only redeeming quality the transition tag has is that we have the right to match any offer.
I think it's actually pretty smart and here's why:
It takes away the leverage Mack's agent has to force us to overpay on market price because of our instability and large cap room. Now, he either takes the one year deal or gets whatever he is able to sign "out there".
Farmer basically put Mack in a realiyt check position and where his mouth is. He said he would allow the Browns to match any offer....well, you're welcome Mr.Mack.
It shows that the FO really wants him and at the same time puts the ball into Mack's camp...all while lessening their leverage A LOT. That's really smart imho, I'm pleasantly surprised.
The only downside I see is that both the Ravens and Steelers need a C badly and could jerk around with us on this, but I doubt they're willing to dish out close to 10/season on the center position since they have so much money tied up to their QB. We simply have more cap room and thus leverage on them...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Quote: Steve you're gonna have to explain this to me, but from what I've read is that if we match he HAS to sign with us.
No you're right that we have matching rights for any deal. I guess it's not a bad thing, but if we don't match we don't get anything. Better than just letting him go to FA I guess. Puts us in a position to get trolled like Belichik did with the steelers last year but I don't know... Transition tag just seems toothless to me.
I think it's letting Alex have the right to get the best offer available and making him stick to his word of letting us match any offer. We're letting other teams dictate his contract. This is important to mention
POISON PILLS NO LONGER EXIST BECAUSE OF THE CBA
I think there is zero, 0%, chance the FO lets Mack go. They did this with the intention of matching any offer. The only exception is if someone overpays to a beyond record level.
the other risk is that while poison pills have been outlawed (like saying the contract goes up if he plays more than 2 games a year in Ohio), there is still alot of language that can be put into the contract to make the terms less palatable for the Browns and this tag exposes us to those risks.
it very well could end up to our benefit. i think the odds are actually in our favor there. but, we will have to see what happens and if teams are willing to negotiate early when there is cap room available with a guy they know whose team can just accept the terms (so they'd hold cap space for a week for nothing).
Quote: Just spitballing, but maybe we think that Mack's camp overvalues what they can get on the open market and the Browns can get a better price if we actually let them put that theory to the test?
Yeah you're probably right. Looking at it that way I guess it was a good move.
Posted by Darin Gantt on March 3, 2014, 3:35 PM EST
The new Browns administration obviously placed a higher value on center Alex Mack than the old one.
So much so, that they’re dusting off the seldom-used transition tag to keep him, according to Adam Schefter of ESPN.
The transition tag guarantees the average of the top 10-highest-paid players at his position, and for offensive linemen, that’s $10.039 million. The franchise tag would have cost $11.654 million.
It gives the Browns the right to match any offer Mack gets on the open market, but no compensation if he leaves.
It makes him an expensive rental, but would also help smooth the way for a new quarterback, by having an experienced man in the middle of the line.
FYI - Only other transition tag was between the Steelers & Jason Worilds
Quote: Andrew Brandt @adbrandt The @Browns placement of Transition Tag on Mack is interesting. Have ample Cap room: saying to other teams: "Take your best shot."
Quote: This is dumb in my opinion. Transition tag number is $10 million. Franchise tag number is $11.5 million. Transition tag offers no compensation if we don't match the offer. We're risking losing him with no compensation over $1.5 million bucks and we have $56 million in free space? The only redeeming quality the transition tag has is that we have the right to match any offer.
I think it's actually pretty smart and here's why:
It takes away the leverage Mack's agent has to force us to overpay on market price because of our instability and large cap room. Now, he either takes the one year deal or gets whatever he is able to sign "out there".
Farmer basically put Mack in a realiyt check position and where his mouth is. He said he would allow the Browns to match any offer....well, you're welcome Mr.Mack.
It shows that the FO really wants him and at the same time puts the ball into Mack's camp...all while lessening their leverage A LOT. That's really smart imho, I'm pleasantly surprised.
The only downside I see is that both the Ravens and Steelers need a C badly and could jerk around with us on this, but I doubt they're willing to dish out close to 10/season on the center position since they have so much money tied up to their QB. We simply have more cap room and thus leverage on them...
I think it's a great move. You have someone saying "show me the money" having to go out and prove, in no uncertain terms, their market value. The other factor is that other franchises hate investing the time and energy in someone they could lose no matter what they offer... after being hand-cuffed for 5 days in the midst of the free agent feeding frenzy. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent advises to just take the 10m and try again next year.
Quote: The other factor is that other franchises hate investing the time and energy in someone they could lose no matter what they offer... after being hand-cuffed for 5 days in the midst of the free agent feeding frenzy. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent advises to just take the 10m and try again next year.
i really dont understand letting ward walk. Both him and byrd have injury issues....but especially byrd. Not to mention we could get ward much cheaper then byrd. Also, we dont know if byrd will even come here.........big risk for a guy you are going to have to pay lots of money and he will probably be hurt much of the time.
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
Quote: This is dumb in my opinion. Transition tag number is $10 million. Franchise tag number is $11.5 million. Transition tag offers no compensation if we don't match the offer. We're risking losing him with no compensation over $1.5 million bucks and we have $56 million in free space? The only redeeming quality the transition tag has is that we have the right to match any offer.
I think it's actually pretty smart and here's why:
It takes away the leverage Mack's agent has to force us to overpay on market price because of our instability and large cap room. Now, he either takes the one year deal or gets whatever he is able to sign "out there".
Farmer basically put Mack in a realiyt check position and where his mouth is. He said he would allow the Browns to match any offer....well, you're welcome Mr.Mack.
It shows that the FO really wants him and at the same time puts the ball into Mack's camp...all while lessening their leverage A LOT. That's really smart imho, I'm pleasantly surprised.
The only downside I see is that both the Ravens and Steelers need a C badly and could jerk around with us on this, but I doubt they're willing to dish out close to 10/season on the center position since they have so much money tied up to their QB. We simply have more cap room and thus leverage on them...
I think it's a great move. You have someone saying "show me the money" having to go out and prove, in no uncertain terms, their market value. The other factor is that other franchises hate investing the time and energy in someone they could lose no matter what they offer... after being hand-cuffed for 5 days in the midst of the free agent feeding frenzy. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent advises to just take the 10m and try again next year.
However, that's usually what these guys want to avoid. They want the security (such as it is) of a longer term deal with guarantees in case they get hurt.
What happens if Mack plays under this tag and blows out his knee? No big deal next year, and then he has to wait another year to (maybe, at that point) cash in. These guys want long term deals with guaranteed money. I think that Mack will wind up right back here as a member of the Browns for the next few years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: i really dont understand letting ward walk. Both him and byrd have injury issues....but especially byrd. Not to mention we could get ward much cheaper then byrd. Also, we dont know if byrd will even come here.........big risk for a guy you are going to have to pay lots of money and he will probably be hurt much of the time.
Yep. I agree. Too bad they didn't get Haden's deal done already.
Quote: Steve you're gonna have to explain this to me, but from what I've read is that if we match he HAS to sign with us.
Not to mention that if we match the offer, he signs and it's not for just one year, it's for life of the contract. and because of that crazy thing that happened between Seattle and Minneapolis years back, they can't even put in a poison pill clause..
So, if someone offers him 20 mill a year guaranteed, we pass.. if someone offers him a reasonable number, we match it and he's ours..
What we end up paying is HIS market value. that is if you believe a thing/person is worth what someone is willing to pay.
I do!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: i really dont understand letting ward walk. Both him and byrd have injury issues....but especially byrd. Not to mention we could get ward much cheaper then byrd. Also, we dont know if byrd will even come here.........big risk for a guy you are going to have to pay lots of money and he will probably be hurt much of the time.
Although it's not a good sign, it may not necessarily lead to Ward walking. They still have until the 8th to negotiate a long-term deal with him exclusively.
That is of course if they still want him, which I hope they do.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 03/03/1406:41 PM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Quote: As of right now he doesn't want to sign with the Browns long term.
That may have been the case with the old regime, but do any of us know what his opinion of the new regime is? Would be interesting to know what came out of the meeting he had with our FO on the weekend...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Quote: As of right now he doesn't want to sign with the Browns long term.
That may have been the case with the old regime, but do any of us know what his opinion of the new regime is? Would be interesting to know what came out of the meeting he had with our FO on the weekend...
From what I've read, he doesn't know them, so he's unsure.
If we decide to match whoever/whatever and forcefully make Alex stay, then yes... that is quite toothless.
Since I am not educated, can someone tell me if the offer that we have the chance go match or whatever, that its the offer that Mack and his agent decides which one to take (considering if multiple offers from different teams come in for Alex)?
I would say yes because that would be really, really shady if the Browns could take the lowest amount offer and match it, and force Alex to stay here. VERY SHADY!
Quote: i really dont understand letting ward walk. Both him and byrd have injury issues....but especially byrd. Not to mention we could get ward much cheaper then byrd. Also, we dont know if byrd will even come here.........big risk for a guy you are going to have to pay lots of money and he will probably be hurt much of the time.
Just so your informed....Byrd has missed 7 games in 5 years. 5 of those he missed in 2013 due to foot injuries. That's 4 years missing only 2 games. Byrd held out during camp and it was widely reported he took his time returning from injury after feeling disrespected by the Bills handling of his contract. Can't say I blame him. I wouldn't risk my contract by rushing back before I'm 100% for a team that disrespected me.
Ward has missed 10 games in 4 years. The idea that Byrd is more of an injury risk is not true. Please don't make things up to further your ideas.
Quote: This is dumb in my opinion. Transition tag number is $10 million. Franchise tag number is $11.5 million. Transition tag offers no compensation if we don't match the offer. We're risking losing him with no compensation over $1.5 million bucks and we have $56 million in free space? The only redeeming quality the transition tag has is that we have the right to match any offer.
I think it's actually pretty smart and here's why:
It takes away the leverage Mack's agent has to force us to overpay on market price because of our instability and large cap room. Now, he either takes the one year deal or gets whatever he is able to sign "out there".
Farmer basically put Mack in a realiyt check position and where his mouth is. He said he would allow the Browns to match any offer....well, you're welcome Mr.Mack.
It shows that the FO really wants him and at the same time puts the ball into Mack's camp...all while lessening their leverage A LOT. That's really smart imho, I'm pleasantly surprised.
The only downside I see is that both the Ravens and Steelers need a C badly and could jerk around with us on this, but I doubt they're willing to dish out close to 10/season on the center position since they have so much money tied up to their QB. We simply have more cap room and thus leverage on them...
I think it's a great move. You have someone saying "show me the money" having to go out and prove, in no uncertain terms, their market value. The other factor is that other franchises hate investing the time and energy in someone they could lose no matter what they offer... after being hand-cuffed for 5 days in the midst of the free agent feeding frenzy. I wouldn't be surprised if his agent advises to just take the 10m and try again next year.
However, that's usually what these guys want to avoid. They want the security (such as it is) of a longer term deal with guarantees in case they get hurt.
What happens if Mack plays under this tag and blows out his knee? No big deal next year, and then he has to wait another year to (maybe, at that point) cash in. These guys want long term deals with guaranteed money. I think that Mack will wind up right back here as a member of the Browns for the next few years.
I agree. So it's put up or shut up time for Mack. It takes away his using our biggest weakness (instability) as leverage in negotiation. Fair market value or bust without renting him for 11.5. So either we keep him for 1 year @ the smaller price tag or sign him long term... sounds like a win/win for the Browns brass. Unless, of course, someone offers him a ridiculous contract that we are unwilling to match. Work our cap space into the equation and it seems like this was the smartest move we could make. At the end of the day, it's about the fairest deal for him as well. The ball's in his court without us holding the bag.
