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1
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Phil Taylor
DTBaylor
This is a hit!
2
37
Jabaal Sheard
DEPittsburgh
Another hit!
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59
Greg Little
WRNorth Carolina
Ack.. a bust!
4
102
Jordan Cameron
TEUSC
Just got done w Pro Bowl.. this is a hit.
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124
Owen Marecic
FBStanford
Bustola!!
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137
Buster Skrine
CBChattanooga
I think this is a hit.. but he's playing out of position.. s/b a nickle..
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150
Jason Pinkston
OTPittsburgh
Bust IMO.. I think our guards stink.
7
248
Eric Hagg
SNebraska
Bust.. is he even in football??
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Legend
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While I don't think that Little is a "hit", I also don't think that he's a bust. He's an average receiver with occasional bursts of spectacular play, and occasional problems catching the ball. However in 3 seasons, he has 155 catches for 1821 yards and 8 TD. Not a #1, but also not a bust.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It is important to keep in mind we traded down from #7 that season. This netted Taylor, Little, Marecic, and Weeden. Some picks were also tossed in trading up for Taylor and later for Richardson.
At #7 we had the option of picking seven different future probowlers: Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith, Robert Quinn, Mike Pouncey, and Ryan Kerrigan. Nick Fairley was also available along with a slew of lousy quarterbacks.
I think Taylor is a fine player. But I'd take any of those guys over him right now. (Maybe not Smith or Pouncey due to need).
Sheard seems to be a hit relative to the other players drafted behind him. He has played well in both the 4-3 and 3-4.
Little is awful. He was a converted RB and simply can't catch. We took him one pick after Torrey Smith and Randall Cobb was available for a long time after we picked. We could have taken Mallett with this pick, or with our 3rd had we not traded it away for Taylor.
Jordan Cameron was a very clever pick. He showed nothing until this season and poofed into some pretty high quality play. Well done Mr. Heckert.
Not only does Marecic suck. Taking a fullback in the 4th round is absurd. This was when we realized Heckert wasn't all that good. Probowler Julius Thomas was taken shortly after as was Bilal Powell who got a lot of carries this season. There isn't a tremendous amount of talent in the 4th but Marecic was especially horrid.
Buster Skrine is a hit in my opinion. Funny to see now but we actually took him slightly before the Seahawks took Richard Sherman. They have to have had the luckiest drafting history in recent memory. Finding a competent 2/3 corner in the 5th isn't that common.
Pinkston...for a 5th round pick I would call him a hit. I'm not sure how fully he recovered from the blood clot or how well he fits into different schemes. Finding a high quality starter this late is very rare. He was in the average to below average area where most of these guys never see the field. Not bad.
Eric Hagg didn't work out. He was very recently signed by the Broncos after seemingly sitting out this season (perhaps rehabbing an injury?).
Grade? I give it a C. He passed up a bunch of probowlers in the first but snagged one in the 4th. A mixture of failure and success.
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Legend
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I thought he did a phenomenal job. You got two guys that are arguably top 5 at their respective position in Cameron at TE and Taylor at NT. He also got two solid starters. He did a good job with 2012 as well even though Weeden + Richardson flopped. Hughes, Benjamin, Winn, Schwarzt are all contributors. He got is this guy too! 
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Legend
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Quote:
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Phil Taylor
DTBaylor
This is a hit!
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Jabaal Sheard
DEPittsburgh
Another hit!
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Greg Little
WRNorth Carolina
Ack.. a bust!
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Jordan Cameron
TEUSC
Just got done w Pro Bowl.. this is a hit.
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Owen Marecic
FBStanford
Bustola!!
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Buster Skrine
CBChattanooga
I think this is a hit.. but he's playing out of position.. s/b a nickle..
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150
Jason Pinkston
OTPittsburgh
Bust IMO.. I think our guards stink.
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248
Eric Hagg
SNebraska
Bust.. is he even in football??
So what your saying is that this was a pretty typical draft.. fair share of hits and misses..
I guess it's good that the hits came in the top of the draft with Taylor and Sheard. Little baffles me. Has all the physical tools but can't put it together. Sure wish someone would get hold of this kid and shake him up.
I just know there is ability there.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
So what your saying is that this was a pretty typical draft..
Not typical for a Cleveland team.
Actually, perhaps not too typical for any team, given that he got 4 starters (I'm counting Little in this), two of which are pro bowlers.
The moves in that draft also netted us yet another starter and pro bowler in Gordon.
I'd say that this one was an all-around home run of a draft.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
So what your saying is that this was a pretty typical draft..
Not typical for a Cleveland team.
Actually, perhaps not too typical for any team, given that he got 4 starters (I'm counting Little in this), two of which are pro bowlers.
The moves in that draft also netted us yet another starter and pro bowler in Gordon.
I'd say that this one was an all-around home run of a draft.
Ok, I can live with that explaination.., 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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2nd String
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2nd String
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How did the 2011 draft have anything to do with Josh Gordon? Gordon was taken in 2012 in the supplemental draft which cost us a 2013 second round draft pick.
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How did the 2011 draft have anything to do with Josh Gordon? Gordon was taken in 2012 in the supplemental draft which cost us a 2013 second round draft pick.
Honestly, I was taking a poster above at face value on that.
So, perhaps not.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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jc.
it was a good draft. when we think about it NOW, yea there were great players to be picked at 7.
but lets be honest, damn never every one of us would've taken that trade with atlanta in a heartbeat. that was great, they just messed it up by their draft from 2012.
but it was a great decision.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Overall, I liked this draft.
1. The trade was a good one IMO (unfortunately what came as a result of it was not). Heckert had two guys he wanted at 7-- AJ Green and Patrick Peterson. After both were picked, Peterson one slot before us, he moved down adding another a next year's first. I liked the move and regardless of what Julio Jones has done, still happy with the move today. Like m,any people have said around here about Sammy Watkins-- why draft a WR that high w/o a QB.
#21 Phil Taylor- Great pick. Versatile big man with speed that can play 43DT or 34NT. I think he plays with a ton of fire and intensity. He's been valuable for this team. I hope he can continue to improve and stay healthy. The pectoral injury of 2012 slowed said progress down a bit IMO.
#37 Jabaal Sheard- Good pick. I think it's been a inconsistent ride for Sheard so far in regards to his performance and in regard to what he's been asked to do. From LDE to RDE; from DE to OLB; I think he's had to change quite a bit. At this point in his career, I think he is an above average rusher with 21 sacks, 7 forced fumbles in three years.
#59 Greg Little- Bordering on bust. Greg Little frustrates me more than any other player on the Browns. Size with decent speed that works hard and can block effectively. Once he catches the ball he can be a nightmare in space. But his drops are becoming legendary in Cleveland and hasn't shown progress towards remedying that MAJOR issue. The Davone Bess debacle may keep him in Cleveland for one more and the fact he is cheap may also be on his side. However, I won't be surprised if he's cut. Im holding out for one more chance--- put him in the slot.
#102 Jordan Cameron-- Awesome Pick. Probably the best value pick in the draft for Heckert. Great athleticism, hands, and speed. A mismatch for the defense as he can line up as a wide out as well. I'm impressed with the way he matured at the NFL with little collegiate playing time as USC but the talent was obviously there. If there is anything to knock Cameron about it's that he doesn't come across as the smartest guy and his blocking could be better. Hopefully he get more comfortable with his skills and continues to get better.
#124 Owen Marecic-- Bust. Out of the NFL and couldn't stick w/ his former Stanford coaches team, San Francisco.
#137 Buster Skrine-- A good pick. I don't like him as much as others may at the #2CB spot but think he is serviceable there and we can manage. I would prefer to have in as the nickel, I think he would do better there. He has fought to get better each year, focused on his strengths to offset his biggest liability, his small stature.
#150 Jason Pinkston- A Good Pick. Not sure how anyone can be considered a "bust" this far down in the draft. But in PInkston's case, in the middle of the 5th Round, if he all he ends up being is a backup G, that fine in terms of value. Stay healthy, Pinky.
#248 Eric Hagg- A seventh round pick not in the NFL all year until signed to a futures contract by Denver. Nothing lost or gained.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
While I don't think that Little is a "hit", I also don't think that he's a bust. He's an average receiver with occasional bursts of spectacular play, and occasional problems catching the ball. However in 3 seasons, he has 155 catches for 1821 yards and 8 TD. Not a #1, but also not a bust.
^ I agree with this. I really applauded his dedication to working on catching the ball last year. Too bad it didn't translate onto the field more overtly. I haven't completely written him off yet, as I think he has a lot to offer if he can just hang onto the ball consistently. He is a fantastic blocker, a monster with the ball in his hands and one of my favorite players to watch get YAC.
On the draft itself, with Taylor, Sheard, Cameron, Gordon & Skrine alone it has to be graded at an A, maybe A+ because two of them are pro-bowlers.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Quote:
It is important to keep in mind we traded down from #7 that season. This netted Taylor, Little, Marecic, and Weeden. Some picks were also tossed in trading up for Taylor and later for Richardson.
At #7 we had the option of picking seven different future probowlers: Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith, Robert Quinn, Mike Pouncey, and Ryan Kerrigan. Nick Fairley was also available along with a slew of lousy quarterbacks.
I think Taylor is a fine player. But I'd take any of those guys over him right now. (Maybe not Smith or Pouncey due to need).
Sheard seems to be a hit relative to the other players drafted behind him. He has played well in both the 4-3 and 3-4.
Little is awful. He was a converted RB and simply can't catch. We took him one pick after Torrey Smith and Randall Cobb was available for a long time after we picked. We could have taken Mallett with this pick, or with our 3rd had we not traded it away for Taylor.
Jordan Cameron was a very clever pick. He showed nothing until this season and poofed into some pretty high quality play. Well done Mr. Heckert.
Not only does Marecic suck. Taking a fullback in the 4th round is absurd. This was when we realized Heckert wasn't all that good. Probowler Julius Thomas was taken shortly after as was Bilal Powell who got a lot of carries this season. There isn't a tremendous amount of talent in the 4th but Marecic was especially horrid.
Buster Skrine is a hit in my opinion. Funny to see now but we actually took him slightly before the Seahawks took Richard Sherman. They have to have had the luckiest drafting history in recent memory. Finding a competent 2/3 corner in the 5th isn't that common.
Pinkston...for a 5th round pick I would call him a hit. I'm not sure how fully he recovered from the blood clot or how well he fits into different schemes. Finding a high quality starter this late is very rare. He was in the average to below average area where most of these guys never see the field. Not bad.
Eric Hagg didn't work out. He was very recently signed by the Broncos after seemingly sitting out this season (perhaps rehabbing an injury?).
Grade? I give it a C. He passed up a bunch of probowlers in the first but snagged one in the 4th. A mixture of failure and success.
In my opinion, this is by far the most accurate post in regards to that particular draft.
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Legend
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1 21 Phil Taylor DTBaylor - well done. one of my favorite Browns.
2 37 Jabaal Sheard DEPittsburgh - adjustment year last year, but has shown he is a solid guy.
2 59 Greg Little WRNorth Carolina - hard to say complete bust as he's still technically our starting WR, but he has not impressed. next year will determine whether he was a successful pick or a bust (and that is not a good sign).
4 102 Jordan Cameron TE USC - had us worried for a little bit, but getting a probowl TE in the 4th round is fantastic.
4 124 Owen Marecic FBStanford - can we pretend this never happened?
5 137 Buster Skrine CBChattanooga - showed he belongs in the NFL last year. admirable job and great value here.
5 150 Jason Pinkston OTPittsburgh - hard to call him a bust when he's a 5th round OG who has started many games for us and is still coming back from injury. We will see what happens this year (much like Little).
7 248 Eric Hagg SNebraska - not many 7th rounders stick. he is one of the many who don't.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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Phil Taylor
DTBaylor
Phil's awesome. Best person on the D-line IMO, and there are MANY great talents there!
This is a hit!
2
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Jabaal Sheard
DEPittsburgh
Same, monster in 3-4, 4-3, whatever. He's just a monster. Improve his coverage skills and wow...
Another hit!
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Greg Little
WRNorth Carolina
Epic failure.
Ack.. a bust!
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Jordan Cameron
TEUSC
Brightest days are ahead of him, and what's recently behind him is def not dark/gloomy. Good pick!
Just got done w Pro Bowl.. this is a hit.
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Owen Marecic
FBStanford
Epic failure
Bustola!!
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Buster Skrine
CBChattanooga
Was mediocre failure, but now has stepped up big time. Really liking Skrine after last season.
I think this is a hit.. but he's playing out of position.. s/b a nickle..
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150
Jason Pinkston
OTPittsburgh
Eh, average pick at best now. Depth player IMO so not a home run or a failure..
Bust IMO.. I think our guards stink.
7
248
Eric Hagg
SNebraska
Never saw or heard much from him, so failure.
Bust.. is he even in football??
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His 2011 draft would be considered an overall success based on guys like Skrine and Cameron becoming starters in spite of where they were drafted. Little IMHO is a bust. He not only hasn't developed into a starter, he's failed to make an impact as a sub-package player.
And while it's clearly going against the adoration of the guy, I think Taylor is vastly over-rated by Browns fans. He's been a decent player with short bursts of great play but longer stretches of little impact. Versatility, great size, great strength, and a menacing look doesn't make a player great. His lack of rush-ability has been a disappointment.
In 3 seasons he's registered exactly 1 forced fumble. Since his rookie season he's had 3 sacks. He's been decent against the run but far from dominant and saw his snaps reduced last season.
People won't like to read this, but 2014 is a make-or-break season for Taylor.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Taylor, Mack, Mingo, ....
I must be greedy
I expect more from our 1st round picks
If you compare Heckert's 2011 to our normal drafts it appears he hit it out of the park. Which is sad.
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Legend
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1. If we had a draft like this every year - no way we would be in the position we are in now.
2.Hitting on the Top 50 impact picks is key. Missing on them over the years is what got us in the mess starting with Clark and continuing through Butch.
3. To go back and evaluate the picks by criticizing who we could have had I don't think is very fair a lot of hind sight involved there.
4. Marecic...I agree with pretty much what all said. Bust, Not where you take a FB actually I was waiting for the best FB ever from that pick. But to state something to the effect that from this "GREAT" draft that the 4th round pick of Marecic is
" This was when we realized Heckert wasn't all that good."
I guess you can basically say You and VERS cause quite frankly I think that was a terrible assessment of Heckert's drafting qualities. Actually pretty much a statement on the ABSURD.
Considering in the same round he picked a freaking PRO BOWL TE. 
5. Pinkston from the 5th round. You got a avg to less than avg. starter from a 5th round pick can play several positions although we did not see him play RT. Give you a quality start. When he started the entire season he was avg. But compare his rookie season with Gilkey he did pretty good.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Taylor, Mack, Mingo, ....
I must be greedy
I expect more from our 1st round picks
Mack is a 2-time pro-bowler, when most people agree that the guard play is the worst spot on the OL. Not sure what else Mack would have had to do.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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21
Phil Taylor
DTBaylor
I love Phil T. But I'm still irritated that we passed on Julio Jones. Sure we picked up the extra pick in 2012 but we used that on Weeden. So this trade becomes a massive failure. Taylor is NOT a game-changer. Julio Jones is. Also, because we passed on Julio, we felt the need to draft Little in the second round and most people would agree that he has severely under-achieved. With Weeden and Little, the domino effect here COMPLETELY outweighs what big Phil brings to the table.
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Jabaal Sheard
DEPittsburgh
This is a good pick. I hope we sign him long term soon because he'll be in high demand on the market someday.
2
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Greg Little
WRNorth Carolina
Yikes.
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Jordan Cameron
TEUSC
Just got done w Pro Bowl.. this is a hit. - Agreed
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Owen Marecic
FBStanford
Yikes.
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137
Buster Skrine
CBChattanooga
Buster had been a big disappointment until this year and I thought he played MUCH better so this work. You get a starter in the 5th round. Good pick.
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Jason Pinkston
OTPittsburgh
Bust IMO.. I think our guards stink. - True but he's serviceable for a 5th round pick starter. Hard to argue the value here so it's a good pick.
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Eric Hagg
SNebraska
Complete bust but I don't know how many 7th round picks are really expected to be anything but a bonus if they make it.
Overall, I give this draft a C- because of the trade and the domino effect it created long term. Even with a pro-bowl TE and (2) 5th round starters, that 1st round trade brought us Weeden and Little....which potentially set us back 1-2 more years.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Legend
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Quote:
And while it's clearly going against the adoration of the guy, I think Taylor is vastly over-rated by Browns fans. He's been a decent player with short bursts of great play but longer stretches of little impact. Versatility, great size, great strength, and a menacing look doesn't make a player great. His lack of rush-ability has been a disappointment.
In 3 seasons he's registered exactly 1 forced fumble. Since his rookie season he's had 3 sacks. He's been decent against the run but far from dominant and saw his snaps reduced last season.
People won't like to read this, but 2014 is a make-or-break season for Taylor.
I agree w/you. He's very overrated by our fans.
The guy doesn't even play all that many snaps. He tires late in games and spends a lot of time on the sideline.
I thought he was coming on at the beginning of the season, but he became a liability later in the season. He was also adversely effected by Bryant leaving the lineup.
I agree w/you that Taylor better show the FO much more than he has in the past or he could be gone when his contract is up.
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Legend
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Phil Taylor
This is a hit!
Jabaal Sheard
Another hit!
Greg Little
somewhere in the middle bottom of him. I don't htink he's good and I don't think he's a complete bust
Jordan Cameron
huge hit
Owen Marecic
wasted pick
Buster Skrine
huge hit. we have a starting CB with a 5th round pick.
Jason Pinkston
solid pick. he's a borderline starter. needs work but a great backup. (if I can fill a roster with picks in the 5th+ round with quality backups... and the top 1/2 with starters that's a huge success)
Eric Hagg
he started 4 games for us in a pinch... played in 22 games in 2 years that's not a bust. I'd say that's an average 7th round pick.
I'd grade this out as a A- or a very high B+
This might be one of the best drafts we've had in the past 10 years.
5 starters out of 8 picks.
Had Pinkston not gotten that blot clot in his lung and the ankle injury... it could have been 6. He could still very well end up being a starter in the NFL.
Taylor, Sheard, Cameron, Skrine, and Little.
Hagg is still in the NFL and Marecic is the only one out of the NFL.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
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Posts: 18,204 |
jc
Really wanted to see what we got when we drafted this group. So, from Mel Kiper: ESPN analyst Mel Kiper Jr. released his grades for the NFL Draft Sunday and discussed them this morning during a conference call. Kiper gave the Browns a B for filling needs, an A- for getting value out of their picks and an overall draft grade of B+.
"I think every one of these players makes their team," Kiper said of the Browns' eight draft picks. "I could see five starters out of this group very easily, and every one of them will be contributors. I could easily see in a couple years five of these kids being in the starting lineup."
So my grade;
Phil:
overrated, but he's still pretty good.
Jabaal Sheard
Very good, but it'll be unfortunate to watch him leave next year.
Greg Little
Not nearly as much of a lost cause as people think he is. He's had a lot of breakout games, but he just can't keep his hands on the ball.
Jordan Cameron
Glad we started to utilize him in the passing game instead of Benjamin Watson and Alex Smith.
Owen Marecic
I was really hoping to keep those memories repressed.
Buster Skrine
Great pick. Finally started to play with some swagger this year.
Jason Pinkston
Good pick. Pretty much a solid back up player, but he can still get better as I doubt he's healed from his blood clot.
Eric Hagg
Just signed with the Browncos and if anyone gives me a reason to call the Broncos the Browncos they're good with me. But seriously, who cares.
Overall Kiper was right, we had 5-6 starters from this group and none of them (save for Little and Pinkston) are there because we're weak at that position. I'd give this grade a solid A. I'm not going to view the trade as something awful because we didn't get Julio Jones, we filled a major need with Phil Taylor that no other DT could have filled. I'd make it an A+ if Little or Owen did just a bit better.
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I think Cameron, Skrine, and Pinkston were very good considering the options available. Great picks. Sheard was a pretty good pick not astoundingly good for a 2nd rounder but pretty good. But then you factor in Taylor vs. the probowlers, drafting a fullback (which sends me into a rage before the 6th round), drafting the worst catching receiver in the league when everyone wanted Cobb, and you have to say this was a draft with an odd balance. It was one part brilliant one part awful. I give that a C but I could see calling this a B. It didn't require any hindsight to say we should have taken Jones or Cobb. Heckert was uniquely good at finding late round talent in my opinion. But his early picks leave a lot to be desired. If you want some balance from me on Heckert I think Gordon was one of the finest picks I've seen in a long time 
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Legend
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jc While we are talking about Owen, I did some Googling and saw this: Quote:
The 49ers didn’t sign fullback Owen Marecic this week because the former two-way star at Stanford wasn’t interested in playing in the NFL, general manager Trent Baalke said Friday.
Did he come to reality that he can't play in this league or something?
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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I guess the big thing is your value of Taylor who was the First round pick. 3/4 defenses the NT becomes one of the key rare guys and in an attack 3-4 I think Taylor is very valuable. I consider him a very good pick at 20something.
As for rage on taking Marecic...man you must of been in a tizzy back in 2009 with the 3 2nd round picks....lol
The can't miss guys should be in the first two rounds....after that any hit is considered a bonus.
I don't think there is one Browns fan who was like YIPEE!! when we made the Marecic pick. Me I was excited about Butts who we picked up in January from the UFL - I think he was an ex-QB who went on an eating binge to 260 lol  But that is where you get FB from not freaking the 4th round...I agree but to even casually define Heckert in any way regarding drafting ability on a 4th round stab in the dark not coming close to making it. Its like So what especially when in the same round he picked up a Pro-Bowl TE. That isn't even a wash. If we go 50% on every round we have 2 picks this team would be a dynasty.
Nothing was wrong in your football at all. Marecic was a dumb pick - brain fart. But it was the exception not the rule. 2010/11 I thought were great drafts. I think Holmgren got a little desperate in 2012. Yes Heckert made the board and had Trent up high as well as Weeden on our 2nd round board. But it was Holmgren who got desperate and had Heckert move up for Trent and take Weeden at #22.
But our 2010/11 drafts are why we are sitting in the good position that we are - 2012 did have the Gordon pick. A lot of young players - and we had decent luck with the UDFAs - Gipson, Bademosi to name a few.
jmho as of course you are entitled to yours.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Taking the trade was a no brainer. The missed picks part are on 2012's class:
Grade A
Taylor at 21 was solid: he's an above AVG NT still with upside left. His development was stunted a bit by two factors: 1. the torn pec injury pretty much made his 2nd season a redshirted one and 2. the constant changes in scheme. He's still too inconsistent but good NTs have value...ask the Steelers and look at their run D with and without Hampton. Also, while Wilkerson and Cam Jordan (the only guy I wanted over Taylor there btw) look like better selections, the rest of the prospects picked after Taylor are busts or worse. Heyward comes close maybe, but he did nothing his first two seasons
Grade B
Sheard at 37 was an A. No if's and but's. Look at who was drafted after him: RB R.Williams, OLB Ayers, OLB B.Carter, DE J.Jenkins, OLB B.Reed, TE Rudolph, WR T.Young, FS R.Moore (the crappy FS who made Flacco rich, lol), OT Franklin, TE Kendricks etc etc. Sheard might be the best pick of this round along with C Wisniewski, OT Franklin and WR T.Smith.
His A grade is justified even more by considering his position, the rest of the pass rushers picked around him and the fact that he too constantly had to switch positions and schemes. For comparison's sake: Brooks Reed is 2 years older and has 9.5 less sacks than Sheard over his first 3 seasons.
Best Browns value pick in 2011 draft and probably even overall of the 3 Heckert drafts.
Little at 59 was a bust, but not a complete fail. I'll give him only a D+ because I think he has some 4th WR and backup slot/no2 value and he could still turn it around. The upside is still oozing, but the chances of it exploding goes down with every game. It looks even worse with T.Smith going right before him and Cobb just after him. I had both over Little, who I didn't like because he was a project. If only we already had Gordon on the roster...maybe Heckert would have taken Cobb. I understood the pick because we had no no1 and no outside WR at all and Cobb does not have the body of a no1. Still a bad pick.
Cameron at 102. Obviously turned out a good pick, but still "just" a B+ for me. He didn't contribute for two seasons. He was a project pick and he needed two development seasons. Pretty much on schedule. Fine. He had a good 2013 with spurts of inconsistency still mixed in and since he's a FA after next season, the value isn't as good as it looks by saying "he's a PB TE".
Marecic at 124 is a bust. No argument. F
Skrine at 137 makes up for that a little. He too was a project pick, who has developed nicely. It's not his fault he gets lined up in situations he's not exactly made for. He's a good nickel CB with spot starting CB2 ability. That's a good pick. B+
Pinkston at 150 was a fine selection. His development has been hampered by two injuries, but when he has played, he has shown some ability. He still has upside and looks like a decent 3rd G with spot starting ability. This far down the draft, that's a solid pick. Of course, R.Sherman was picked 4 spots later, oh well. Another fun fact: RB Dion Lewis was picked right before Pinkston: B-/C+
Hagg was the 248th pick, that's pretty much the 1st UDFA you officially sign. Who cares. He was depth for a couple of seasons, then faded into nothing like most players picked north of 200th overall
Overall I'd grade this draft a B+ and that's being VERY critical. If you word it like this it sounds much better: 3 above AVG to good starters at DE/OLB, NT and TE and 2 spots starters/strong depth players at CB and OG PLUS another 1st next draft.
It's really a shame. Heckert's first two drafts were pretty good (3 AllPros/PBs) and then he completely tanked it in the first round of 2012. Hated the TRich pick and Weeden was need driven roll of the dice. If TRich would have turned into a top 10 RB, the 2012 draft and Heckert's tenure as a whole would look much better. The point here is saying that the bust of TRich at 3 (+ mid rounders) did him in much more than a failed QB at 21 overall. He did make up for that a bit with the Gordon selection though and credits go to LomBanner for ripping off Irsay and recoupe a 1st for TRich. Somewhat ironic that their best move will be remembered as a rip off of someone else's idiocy, though it was smart to sniff it out.
Aynway, after 3 drafts overall Heckert left the Browns 4 young ProBowlers along with above AVG guys like Taylor, Sheard and Schwartz. You will have a hard time finding any NFL team that selected 7 players that developed into well above AVG to great players already at their positions in 3 drafts (and we're not talking P, K, FB or LS here). All the praise aside, he still deserved to be fired over that 2012 first round though considering the timing/importance and state of the roster.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,445 |
Let me chime in ......
Taylor: B+. He needs to play with more consistency overall to make it to A status. Someone brought up that he gets worn out at the end of games, and that is a problem. He was hurt and missed have of 2012, so that year was understandable, but he should have been 100% ready to go last year. I want to see more impact plays out of Taylor ...... sacks ....... forced fumbles ..... and tackles for loss. He has the talent, and it's time for him to really put it all together.
Sheard: A-. He made a decent transition to OLB, a position I thought he migth really excel at. However, he was also hurt part of the season. I had him down for a 10 sack season going into last year, and he wound up with only 5.5. However he also missed 3 whole games, and parts of others with injury. I still continue to see him as a 10 sack guy.
Little: C-/D+. He has talent, and is driven. Unfortunately, he has lapses where he drops a ton of passes. He'll then go on a tear where he'll be excellent. Great blocker, one of the harder workers on the team, and I continue to have hope that he will put it all together.
Cameron: A+. From 4th round to Pro Bowl in 3 seasons, with the mess we had at QB last year, is spectacular. He became a decent blocker, (though not a great one) runs solid routes, and catches the ball nicely. Great pick.
Marecic: F--------- I hated the pick when we made it, and I hate it today. He failed at everything. He couldn't run, couldn't catch, couldn't block .......and I don't know what it was that he could do.
Skrine: B+. 5th round to solid starter is a solid B+ in my eyes. He will always have a disadvantage against tall receivers, but he did a solid job last year. Haden was tied for 2nd in passes defensed last year. Skrine was tied for 10th with 20 passes defensed. He's a solid tackler, and not afraid to come up in support in the run game. I wish he could intercept the ball more, but smart QBs will throw passes that are out of his reach. He can't improve his height ..... but he has improved about everywhere else.
Pinkston: D-. 3 seasons, 16 starts as a rookie, 8 in 2 years since. Ugh. Injuries have been a major problem. Gotta get on the field to be a player, and Pinkston hasn't been able to. He appears to have talent, but if you can't play, talent doesn't matter.
Hagg: F. Never really contributed much. He flashed in the off-season, then collapsed in the regular season. In 2012, he was expected to grab a starting spot and run with it. Instead he ran himself off the team, and out of the NFL. A non-contributor who lasts 2 seasons gets an F.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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the value isn't as good as it looks by saying "he's a PB TE". Btw I only say that for the simple reason - HE WAS ONE 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Aynway, after 3 drafts overall Heckert left the Browns 4 young ProBowlers along with above AVG guys like Taylor, Sheard and Schwartz. You will have a hard time finding any NFL team that selected 7 players that developed into well above AVG to great players already at their positions in 3 drafts (and we're not talking P, K, FB or LS here). All the praise aside, he still deserved to be fired over that 2012 first round though considering the timing/importance and state of the roster.
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
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Quote:
His 2011 draft would be considered an overall success based on guys like Skrine and Cameron becoming starters in spite of where they were drafted. Little IMHO is a bust. He not only hasn't developed into a starter, he's failed to make an impact as a sub-package player.
And while it's clearly going against the adoration of the guy, I think Taylor is vastly over-rated by Browns fans. He's been a decent player with short bursts of great play but longer stretches of little impact. Versatility, great size, great strength, and a menacing look doesn't make a player great. His lack of rush-ability has been a disappointment.
In 3 seasons he's registered exactly 1 forced fumble. Since his rookie season he's had 3 sacks. He's been decent against the run but far from dominant and saw his snaps reduced last season.
People won't like to read this, but 2014 is a make-or-break season for Taylor.
I need to start asking what your criteria for certain positions are. I'm starting to think you have insane expectations from certain positions.
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Legend
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Legend
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Not sure how you rate Pinky and Hagg so low. Those guys are 6-7 rounders that actually contributed, somewhat. Hagg got a look as a starter at one point. That's pretty good for being picked so late. Pinky was our starting guard until he went down with a blood clot. That's also really good for someone drafted so late.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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Legend
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I think Skrine and Pinky were excellent value picks. Great job.
Obviously, Jordan has turned out to be a great pick.
Heckert did a good job of finding some real good players later in the draft.
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Legend
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Legend
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Hagg got a quick look as a starter, failed, got benched and was inactive ..... then played again, and was cut.
He was awful. He looked like he couldn't understand a coverage if his life depending on it. He was constantly late breaking to the ball on double cover, and was faked out by damn near every QB we played. He was really bad. To me, regardless of where he was picked, that's not a value pick.
Pinkston looked like he might be a decent Guard as a rookie, but let's not overrate how he played.He was OK ... in some games .... and not so OK in others. Then he got hurt, and missed almost 2 seasons. Maybe he'll be able to recover that grade, but right now the best I could give him is a D.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
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I think it's more that those grades are pretty harsh considering where they were drafted at. What exactly did you expect from a 5th and 7th round pick?
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Legend
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Legend
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Haag wasn't very good, but how many 7th rounders are?
Pinky was a great value in the 5th round.
I know some people don't believe in value, but man........it's huge. Your first round picks should out-perform your 5th round picks. I can't see how that is even arguable.
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Legend
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Legend
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The problem with Heckert's tenure will be the footprint of Mike Holmgren, particularly with Holmgren's alleged aptitude to identify college quarterbacks. He trumped Heckert in the 2010 draft for Colt McCoy (Fail) and trumped him again in 2012 to take Weeden (fail) after Kendall Wright was taken.
Don't get me wrong, Heckert made some bad picks as many GMs do.....wanting Richardson, Hardesty, and perhaps Little come to mind.
But the guy netted 4 Pro Bowlers/ 3 All-Pros in three years. I don't think the guy is necessarily the best GM, but he did a damn good job. In fact, I think it's safe to say he's been the best the Browns have had. However, to his fault, he could not secure the right QB....something we've needed FOREVER.
As far as other Heckert picks are concerned in 2014, I'll be interested to watch Travis Benjamin returning punts and Phil Taylor continue to progress in this 34 D
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Haag wasn't very good, but how many 7th rounders are?
Pinky was a great value in the 5th round.
I know some people don't believe in value, but man........it's huge. Your first round picks should out-perform your 5th round picks. I can't see how that is even arguable.
I believe in the philosophy that says "how does a player grade out?", not "How does a player grade based largely upon where he was drafted?".
To me, Hagg was a failed player, because he never contributed to the team in a positive manner. he was handed a job, and that's all well and good, but he failed in that job. He was a failed player, no matter where he was drafted.
Pinkston was a harder grade for me, but a guy who cannot contribute for the better part of 2 out of 3 years cannot be graded highly.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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I think he did some good.
I really like picks like Winn, Pinkston, Jordan [man, was I wrong about that one,] Skrine, etc.
Some were okay. Haden [I would have rather had Thomas,] Sheard, Ward, etc.
Some were horrific. Weeden, TRich, Hardesty, Marecic, etc.
My biggest gripe was his last draft. Man, that draft was loaded and we trade up for a RB. We gave up picks for TRich. Then, we turn around and draft an old, dumb qb. I still think Schwartz was a reach. We could have traded down and done so well.
Overall...............he was good and bad. I do agree w/you that he was better than any of his predecessors.
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Legend
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Legend
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Your logic is flawed on that one.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum t's that time.. 3 years later
grading Heckert's 2011 draft
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