Scouts already had concerns about Frye's arm strength. Then the combine revealed hands the size of a 12-year-old's. One of only two combine QBs with a span of less than 9 inches (the average was 9.6), Frye's 8.7-inch mitts give coaches visions of fumbles falling and throws slipping.
Bill Poilan who is a Hall of Fame GM likes Jimmy G. I respect his opinion.
Jimmy G throws a beautiful ball. He has close to picture perfect form as a passer. Not a thing wrong with his measurables. He has faced inferior competition but he did dominate.
My guess is he would carry a third round grade but he could go in the second for sure.
If Bridgewater was gone. Bortles and Watkins would be a consideration. I could be wrong but I do not see Manziel being drafted by the Browns.
In the end analysis if Bridgewater is gone I can see the Browns going BPA. Holding true to their board. They may target players they really see as a fit and move to get them after the first three picks but alot will depend on what needs they address in free agency.
j/c....just curious why pass on Manziel? Why would that be considered helpful to our organization. If we would be thinking of lets say - Pass on Joe T cause we can get a guy with the same dimensions in the 4th round. Yeah you would be getting a LT but there is a difference from your Charlie Fryes and Luke McCowns.
Unless we don't value Manziel high...we meaning the Browns staff not the fans - I can see them taking Watkins or Robinson. I know Farmer has a guy picked out.
QBs tend to move up in the draft 4th round might become pick him in the 2nd cause he won't be there when you pick in the 3rd??? If we take a chance on developing a QB from one of our 3rd round picks quite frankly I hope its Logan Thomas. I'm not thinking stepping right in day one. I'm talking about developing him 3 years from now.
But that is more likely on us passing on Bortles if Teddy n Johnny are gone.
I still wonder if the big drop in 2014 will be Manziel - I don't think a sub 6' QB has ever been drafted in the first round let alone Top 5. Vick I think measured an even 6' but I don't know - that is what he's listed at so it could be 5'10" for all I know but Vick did have like 4.3 speed and a big gun of an arm.
jmho - I like the kid and would take him at 4 cause 26 he probably would be gone. still we just like Rodgers dropped wonder if this year its JM?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
It is just a gut instinct on Ray Farmer. I just do not see Manziel fitting into the mold of what Farmer and Pettine are looking for.
I believe size is a concern for them. I think they may have some character concerns. In the end when they have finished their evaluation I do not believe Manziel will carry a draft grade of a top ten pick.
Quote: There is no verifiable reason from any sources.
It is just a gut instinct on Ray Farmer. I just do not see Manziel fitting into the mold of what Farmer and Pettine are looking for.
I believe size is a concern for them. I think they may have some character concerns. In the end when they have finished their evaluation I do not believe Manziel will carry a draft grade of a top ten pick.
I don't think so either. I don't know whether any of them will receive a Top 10 grade by Farmer & Co.
Quote: Funny, the site I was on said Frye's were 8-3/4 ... I'll try to find it. If its just about hands, maybe they should take the guy from Cornell, his hands are 10-3/8.
8.7 is correct... just verified (sorta). Either my eyes played tricks on me, or I just jumped to the assumption of the first number being a 9.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
What is the mold they are looking for? ======================================
This is guess work at best, but Bridgewater does everything very well. He does not appear to be scheme limited. The intangibles are off the charts. He has demonstrated the ability to make the proper reads. Decision making and pocket skills are outstanding. He is mentally tough, humble, and dedicated.
Again guess work but Bridgewater seems to fit what they are looking for in a quarterback.
Quote: Frye and McCoy were OK with the ball in their hands ...........the problem was just everything that happened once the ball left their hands.
Starting with the fact that it left their hand at about 30 mph...
On a very good day.
In honestly, I was thinking more 5 MPH ........ "It's a very catchable ball .... well, except for the fact that the 3 closest defenders have time to close on the receiver while the ball is in the air ........"
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
LOL.. I had no idea how fast most QBs really throw it so I looked it up and found that most throw it in the 50-55 mph range with guys like Favre approaching 65-70 when they really want to hum it.. so I gave them 30...
Farmer in his interview placed a premium on decision making. "The ability to process information 2.5 seconds." Bridgewater is considered the most pro ready guy because of his decision making.
Pettine has stated he wants tough guys with strong mental make-up. Bridgewater won a big game with a broken wrist. He is notorious for his dedication and passion for the game.
Bridgewater has demonstrated all the things that both guys have brought to attention as important.
Quote: LOL.. I had no idea how fast most QBs really throw it so I looked it up and found that most throw it in the 50-55 mph range with guys like Favre approaching 65-70 when they really want to hum it.. so I gave them 30...
I remember watching Frye thrown an out, and thinking that it must be a slow motion replay. 8img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
If you for some reason are not comfortable taking Manzeil at #4, then it's a no brainer, you take Sammy Watkins and pair him up with Gordon. Just think about that for a minute. We'd have Gordon, Watkins, and Cameron lining up. Then you take Hyde with next pick and then build the OL/LB, or 2nd CB. It never hurts to take a QB though.
Quote: If you for some reason are not comfortable taking Manzeil at #4, then it's a no brainer, you take Sammy Watkins and pair him up with Gordon. Just think about that for a minute. We'd have Gordon, Watkins, and Cameron lining up. Then you take Hyde with next pick and then build the OL/LB, or 2nd CB. It never hurts to take a QB though.
I can see the draw for having a stable of talent like Gordon, Cameron and Watkins and building up the rest of the offense. But we can't keep ignoring/short-changing the QB position. I am not comfortable with going into next season with our only option at QB is Hoyer; a guy who looked OK, and seems a good leader, in limited action and who is on his 3rd NFL team.
We may not again be in the position to grab one of the top QB prospects for a while. If we can get one of them this year then we should. We need someone to throw to Gordon and Cameron more than we need someone to take some attention away from them.
Quote: We may not again be in the position to grab one of the top QB prospects for a while.
Just commenting on this .... someone says this every year, and we're in position every year. lol!
15 years now. We've grabbed 'em at the top, we've taken 'em in the middle, we've taken 'em in later rounds, etc..... to no avail. In the same time, other teams have gotten their QB at the top, at the bottom of the first, in later rounds, in the middle of the first, etc....
The ONLY thing that matters is finding the guy that can get the job done, and then surrounding him with a ton of talent, and working with what it is that he does well.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Not replying to you specifically, but just a general comment.
With the talk of moving up to get one of these QBs () or a WR at #4 (), I'm so glad that you folks aren't making the decisions.
I might get blind-sided by Farmer, if he does either of these two things, but I'll have to live with it. I'll be the first one calling for his head (unless he nabs Bortles). I like Bortles but I wouldn't necessarily take him at #4. I'd be disappointed that we did so, but I would give it time (at least the first year - if Bortles saw significant action or two years if he didn't).
I cannot say enough how glad I am that you folks aren't making these decisions. To me, many of you have the 'Wow!' factor in a bad way.
Quote: We've grabbed 'em at the top, we've taken 'em in the middle, we've taken 'em in later rounds, etc..... to no avail. In the same time, other teams have gotten their QB at the top, at the bottom of the first, in later rounds, in the middle of the first, etc....
Which means one of two things, either we just aren't taking the right QBs.. or we aren't putting the QBs we take in a decent position to succeed... I think it's a combination of the two... I don't think we've picked a guy of Russell Wilson's caliber and just ruined him, by the same token, we've taken some guys and thrown them to the wolves with minimal talent to support them, new coach every other year, etc.. so we aren't helping ourselves.
I wanted to poke a small hole in the theory that all we need is "one of the top guys". For one, draft position is no guarantee of success - at all. Some could argue that it gives you a better chance, but that is probably a very slim margin at that. Second, we still need to surround the guy with talent, and finally, we need to use him in a way that compliments his strengths and minimizes the things he isn't good at.
It's all kinda "Captain Obvious" type statements, I think, but it's the point that trading up to get "one of the top guys" is no magic bullet. Not by a long stretch.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
then we pick up a stud OG to keep jimmy or hoyer upright and it looks even nicer and to make it perfect we grab a hb in round 3 =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Quote: For one, draft position is no guarantee of success - at all. Some could argue that it gives you a better chance, but that is probably a very slim margin at that. Second, we still need to surround the guy with talent, and finally, we need to use him in a way that compliments his strengths and minimizes the things he isn't good at.
It's all kinda "Captain Obvious" type statements,
There is one more finally.. we need to give him some time in a consistent system to grow and to learn before we expect him to go out and throw it 45 times a game for 350 yards and carry the team on his back...
lol i dont hate the def at all, i wanna help them out by having an offense that scores points =)
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Hey I like your plan, if we can add a defender or two via FA or use just one of our first 3 or 4 picks on a ILB... I'm ok with loading up the offense this year.
Quote: We may not again be in the position to grab one of the top QB prospects for a while.
Just commenting on this .... someone says this every year, and we're in position every year. lol!
15 years now. We've grabbed 'em at the top, we've taken 'em in the middle, we've taken 'em in later rounds, etc..... to no avail. In the same time, other teams have gotten their QB at the top, at the bottom of the first, in later rounds, in the middle of the first, etc....
The ONLY thing that matters is finding the guy that can get the job done, and then surrounding him with a ton of talent, and working with what it is that he does well.
Purp, I get what you're saying, and I do not disagree with you.
How often have we been in position to get a top QB in the draft, though? By "top" I mean the top-rated going into draft day, for whatever that's worth.
We are generally bad, but not bad enough. Picking at 6 usually doesn't cut it. By then, the top guys are gone and you either end up reaching for someone so that you got a QB, or trying to trade back up into the bottom of the 1st for someone who is iffy, or crossing your fingers and taking a flyer in the mid rounds.
Heck, #4 this year might not do it.
Nothing is a guarantee, not even a guy taken #1. I get that.
We have a ton of picks, some really good ones. We can use those picks to bolster the OL, WR, RB and TE. That could easily buy use more wins, and puts us at the middle of the round for drafting next year, still needing a QB.
In my opinion, I think we need to make sure we get one of the top 3 QBs. If not, then we hope Grappolo falls to #26?
We had a shot at Ben. I won't count Tannehill though we had a shot at him. Can't think of who else, though I am sure there were a couple. But not many.
I very highly doubt Jimmy Garoppolo lasts until the 4th round. I also very highly doubt our front office would pass on Johnny Manziel at #4 if Bortles and Bridgewater are both gone, but that's just my opinion. I'm on the Manziel bandwagon and think his attitude, leadership and moxie in general are something Cleveland desperately needs. Let him sit and learn behind Hoyer for a while and get coached up and lots of practice/preseason reps. I also personally want nothing to do with Kelvin Benjamin. We're already walking a tight rope with Gordon in terms of off the field issues and Benjamin hasn't been the sharpest tool in the shed at Florida State. (Multiple run-ins with the law, and he failed grade school multiple times, simply meaning he might not be that bright).
Trading from #4 to #28 with Carolina better get us a 2nd and 3rd this year and their 1st next year lol but if that were to happen my mock would look like this...
1st Round - David Yankey RG/Stanford 1st Round - O'Dell Beckham WR/LSU 2nd Round - Jimmy Garoppolo QB/Eastern Illinois 2nd Round - Jeremy Hill RB/LSU 3rd Round - E.J. Gaines CB/Missouri 3rd Round - Chris Borland ILB/Wisconsin 3rd Round - James Hurst OT/North Carolina 4th Round - Jared Abbrederis WR/Wisconsin 4th Round - Lache Seastrunk RB/Baylor 5th Round - Michael Sam OLB/Missouri 6th Round - Vinnie Sunseri S/Alabama 7th Round - Tevin Reese WR/KR Baylor
"You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave"
Quote: We may not again be in the position to grab one of the top QB prospects for a while.
Just commenting on this .... someone says this every year, and we're in position every year. lol!
15 years now. We've grabbed 'em at the top, we've taken 'em in the middle, we've taken 'em in later rounds, etc..... to no avail. In the same time, other teams have gotten their QB at the top, at the bottom of the first, in later rounds, in the middle of the first, etc....
The ONLY thing that matters is finding the guy that can get the job done, and then surrounding him with a ton of talent, and working with what it is that he does well.
That about sums it up perfectly...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
