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8 Dawgs??? You crazy? The backstabbing and outsmarting would be at an all time high...it would make Banner, Lombo and Mangini look like choir boys 
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This would be a pure "consensus" driven draft room, of course.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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This would be a pure "consensus" driven draft room, of course.
That was a huge joke from day 1. Too bad most didn't get the punch line.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I can't believe you would be swayed by a highlight reel?
Not swayed by that. The record will show if one wants to look it up, that the ideal situation would be we decide Hoyer is the guy.
I posted that because it is obvious there was a very different performance level in the O when Hoyer was at the helm.
I have also said I would have like a little longer sample.
Some recent reports indicate we might be looking at Carr with the 26th, which would mean we think Hoyer might be the guy.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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good country music
An oxymoron if ever I heard one.  
I like Hoyer's potential as a WCO type QB with an offense heavy on pre snap reads, timing throws, and such. However, it is all potential at this point.
And I expected a ox moron to make that comment. 
I love ya Bro.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not swayed by that. The record will show if one wants to look it up, that the ideal situation would be we decide Hoyer is the guy.
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I have also said I would have like a little longer sample.
The second quote is what makes the first quote such a hard thing to do.
And I really don't put any stock into the Carr rumors. I don't put any stock into draft rumors this time of year. In those same reports, they claimed all the Manziel rumors were smoke screens, yet take these rumors seriously? Nah....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Which is why I qualified it as the perception our coaching staff and FO has.
That, I understand, but I don't think our coaching staff or FO necessarily thinks that you get a 'franchise QB' in the draft. If you have to use the term, it should only be used in developing a QB into a player that you want to keep as a member of the team... but only over time.
I suppose that you could take a QB with the intention of having them develop into a 'franchise QB' because you think that they have the skills or are capable of developing them where you want to keep them.
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I have been very vocal in my belief that you simply don't take a QB because you need a QB. We certainly agree there.
We do agree there. I'm sure that we can look back on all the errors that we made in drafting a QB high just because we needed one. Although, the thought that we've signed old free agent QBs being a roaring success is just as laughable. That's why I think that the FO will try the take of drafting a QB later (to develop a year or so) and stick with Hoyer (unless he gets outplayed in the preseason) to be the starting QB. If the drafted QB needs more time to get things down than the first year, they may sign Hoyer to an extension (add a year?) to his contract to give the drafted QB a little more time, if necessary.
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And to be clear, to me a franchise QB is someone you believe can be your team leader and win games for you for the next 10+ years.
Well, since rookie contracts can have a 5-year maximum length, that would mean a re-signing of the QB for a post-rookie contract. Those are commonplace, although, with the new CBA, it might become more rare. I don't really know.
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I have no idea how our coaching staff or FO perceives this class of QB's. I just hope if they see the answer, they go out and get him.
My take (a hunch) is that they have someone that they like who they expect to be able to get later in the draft and will target that player at that time. Might be a 3rd or even a 4th rounder. They might believe (depending on how the draft shakes out) that they have to use the first of the draft picks in whatever round or even draft them a round earlier than they would otherwise take the player because of how they view events which happen during the draft. Make no mistake about it, there will be movement (perhaps by the Browns) during the draft.
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I really believe the only QB I would draft high is Bridgewater. I know.... you like Bortles. However, I believe if whoever "their guy" is at the top is gone, they may well go the route you speak of. I do believe they have a target at the top though. If whoever that is is gone, I would rather them take the route you describe than to reach for someone they simply don't believe in 100%
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The question is whether you need to spend a first round pick on getting the quality QB. Otherwise, I agree with your sentiment.
IF the coaching staff and FO believes there is a franchise QB to be had at #4, are we in a position we can afford not to take him?
I personally don't think so.
I don't think so either.. and I'm still pretty high on Hoyer but I don't see how you can pass on a potential franchise QB.. I'd rather risk having two than none.
yebat' Putin
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I really believe the only QB I would draft high is Bridgewater. I know.... you like Bortles.
However, I believe if whoever "their guy" is at the top is gone, they may well go the route you speak of.
I do believe they have a target at the top though. If whoever that is is gone, I would rather them take the route you describe than to reach for someone they simply don't believe in 100%
I like them all, until I don't LOL
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Damanshot
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The question is whether you need to spend a first round pick on getting the quality QB. Otherwise, I agree with your sentiment.
IF the coaching staff and FO believes there is a franchise QB to be had at #4, are we in a position we can afford not to take him?
I personally don't think so.
I don't think so either.. and I'm still pretty high on Hoyer but I don't see how you can pass on a potential franchise QB.. I'd rather risk having two than none.
I agree with that. If we have a franchise target and feel he is the guy, then do it. If all works out, you have a asset to trade in a year or two.
Nothing wrong with that.
As a matter of fact, I'd do that if i had a really good QB....I'd always draft some QB in round 3 or 4....then you would have a guy you could trade for a 2 in a year or two.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I really believe the only QB I would draft high is Bridgewater. I know.... you like Bortles.
Well, not exactly right. Of those three QBs and with a gun pointed at my head with the command to 'Choose!', my choice would be Bortles.
I think so much better value can be had later. Apparently, there is a report that the Browns like Derek Carr and will take him at #26 if he's available. I don't know about all that, but he's married with a kid, so he's mostly likely grounded more than someone like Manziel, et al.
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However, I believe if whoever "their guy" is at the top is gone, they may well go the route you speak of.
I think they will have so many options at #4. They could stand pat and get a player worth taking (excluding the QBs, I could see either of the two prime OTs, Clowney or Mack). Yeah, I think that Mack could be Lawrence Taylor- or Derrick Thomas-esque. He could be THAT good. If they think so, why wouldn't you take him if he's available?
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I do believe they have a target at the top though. If whoever that is is gone, I would rather them take the route you describe than to reach for someone they simply don't believe in 100%
I don't know who they might target but it's a target rich draft at the top. I think it's a good thing that so many teams are viewed as wanting QBs. I don't know how many of them will actually take on near the top of the draft, say the Top 10.
1. Houston (I don't think they're looking at a QB in the first)
2. St. Louis (Not here either)
3. Jacksonville (They legitimately could - and I think it would be Bortles)
4. Browns (I don't think we'll take one this high in the draft)
5. Oakland (they could very well take one - probably hyped up to take Bridgewater)
6. Atlanta (Not here)
7. Tampa Bay (Not here - even with Lovie Smith's comments about a QB)
8. Minnesota (They could take one)
9. Buffalo (Not likely with Manuel taken last year)
10. Detroit (Nope)
11. Tennessee (I don't think so. Locker will still be given a shot)
12. Giants (Nope)
13. Rams (Nope)
14. Chicago (Nope)
15. Putzburgh (Nope)
16. Dallas
17. BallsNoMore
18. Jets (Who knows that the Jets do? Impossible to tell)
19. Miami
20. Arizona
21. Green Bay
22. Philadelphia
23. KC
24. Cincy (I highly doubt it. Dalton's still a good QB)
25. San Diego
26. Browns
I think it's very possible if Daniel Jeremiah's statement about Derek Carr to the Browns at #26 is true, he could very well be available at the spot.
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Regarding a group of Dawgtalkers running the Browns' draft ...
There's a saying that "a camel is a horse designed by a committee.". Consensus is highly overrated. Like the Despair.com poster says "None of us is as dumb as all of us.".
Last edited by Dave; 02/26/14 09:43 PM.
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Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
That makes him Brady Quinn..
I do not think that makes him the best, it means that in that person's opinion, he will be the best on opening day next year, it doesn't mean that he will be the best 3 or 5 years from now as others may be a little more raw but have more upside.
So what makes any of the other guys the best?
You guys talk out of your butts so much. Sheesh!!!!
I will tell you what makes Bridgewater the best:
--He is the most intelligent qb in years.
--He reads defenses pre-snap.
--He reads coverages post-snap.
--He avoids the blitz.
--He moves in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield.
--He throws accurately when pressured.
--He can run when he has to, but only runs when he has to.
That is why he is the best. That is why some people have commented on him being ready.
It really freaking annoys me how many people who did not study the QBs all season long now suddenly have conclusive opinions on which QBs suck and how the lower guys are so great.
You guys worry more about how you argue than the actual truth.
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So like how do you really feel about it
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j/c... Why do people not like to see QBs throw interceptions? It ends drives and gives the ball back to the other team. You know what else ends drives? Sacks. QB Sacks almost always result in a punt. Here's a statistical look at the most-prolific QBs in the draft and some of the guys thought of as top prospects in next year's draft. Since sacks don't always end in a change of posession, I was kind and counted 2/3 of sacks as changes of posession. (All stats are from ESPN.com except Garoppolo's. His sack numbers are from EIU's website and the other numbers are from NCAA.com.)  Same data, just sorted:  Just data, take it FWIW.
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great compilation there (and the other guy I'd want considered, Shaw, does decently well due to a low INT rate though high sack rate).
one other thing to note that hurts the mobile QBs on that sack rate chart is that many of their rushes came on broken pass plays. I am sure that most NFL FO's have the true sack rate (adding in scrambles but not designed runs), but I'm not sure how to obtain it ourselves without scouring through all of the film. just something to note that a guy like Manziel or even Bridgewater's true sack rate is likely lower than what is on that chart.
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What you're saying make sense, but I'm not sure that's how they are tallied. Look at Jordan Lynch's performance. And wow, I hadn't realized Shaw only threw one pick this year. The guy is such an enigma. 
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one other thing to note that hurts the mobile QBs on that sack rate chart is that many of their rushes came on broken pass plays. I am sure that most NFL FO's have the true sack rate (adding in scrambles but not designed runs), but I'm not sure how to obtain it ourselves without scouring through all of the film. just something to note that a guy like Manziel or even Bridgewater's true sack rate is likely lower than what is on that chart.
Derek Carr is a mobile QB, as is Jordan Lynch (like I mentioned above.) The guys I think would have poor sack rates are guys in offenses who lack balance. My thinking on that being there should be a high sack rate for teams that don't run the ball, allowing the defense to pin their ears back and rush the passer, or teams that mostly run and only pass on 3rd and long for the same reasons.
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Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
No, it means that he is at least the QB-equivalent of Brian Robiskie, who was the "most NFL-ready WR" when he came out.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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one other thing to note that hurts the mobile QBs on that sack rate chart is that many of their rushes came on broken pass plays. I am sure that most NFL FO's have the true sack rate (adding in scrambles but not designed runs), but I'm not sure how to obtain it ourselves without scouring through all of the film. just something to note that a guy like Manziel or even Bridgewater's true sack rate is likely lower than what is on that chart.
Derek Carr is a mobile QB, as is Jordan Lynch (like I mentioned above.) The guys I think would have poor sack rates are guys in offenses who lack balance. My thinking on that being there should be a high sack rate for teams that don't run the ball, allowing the defense to pin their ears back and rush the passer, or teams that mostly run and only pass on 3rd and long for the same reasons.
I definitely agree with that assessment (which then also adds in the factor of teams needing to come back from large deficits by passing more).
And, I think the charts are great work. I just wanted to make sure that scrambling was noted but I'm not sure how to factor it either or how much of a difference it would make. Lynch obviously ran a ton too and Carr ran some but not sure how many of his 40 carries were impromptu scrambles. Anyways, it's great work and something else to consider in factoring these QBs.
Also, yes, Shaw is an enigma in alot of respects. The more I have tried to deep-dive on him though, the more I like him. He's not talked about in the 2nd/3rd round range, but I don't see why he shouldn't be considered right there amongst the Murrays, Garroppolo's and others people like there.
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Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
No, it means that he is at least the QB-equivalent of Brian Robiskie, who was the "most NFL-ready WR" when he came out.
Scary LOL
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Misleading stat.
If you watch Carr, you know he is scared poopless and he is the master of throwing WR screens over and over and over. He doesn't like to be hit. He's soft. He doesn't go through his progressions after he has been hit. Thus, his sack totals are low.
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Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
No, it means that he is at least the QB-equivalent of Brian Robiskie, who was the "most NFL-ready WR" when he came out.
Scary LOL
I agree.
It is scary that someone could actually compare Robo w/Teddy.
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Actually I believe it's more silly than scary.
What people seem to dismiss is that all NCAA QB's strive to be the most NFL ready. That's their goal, their future and being the 1st QB drafted in their respective draft is their ultimate reward.
Bridgewater has achieved that goal while the others have failed. And it's a funny thing someone mentions Robiskie. He wasn't even first round talent, much less the most NFL ready.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Misleading stat.
If you watch Carr, you know he is scared poopless and he is the master of throwing WR screens over and over and over. He doesn't like to be hit. He's soft. He doesn't go through his progressions after he has been hit. Thus, his sack totals are low.
Speaking of misleading stats:
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/45952/349/out-of-the-box
This article shows bags on Carr for 33.2% of his 659 passes being screens while Bridgewater throws only 9.81% of his 427 passes as screens.
That means Carr threw 440 passes which were not screens and Bridgewater threw 385 which were not screens.
Carr's screens were his team's running game, not their passing game, which honestly just makes it harder on him, not easier. Fresno State ran the ball 6 times vs. USC. 6 times. Now tell me, why was the USC defense getting to Carr all day?
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They weren't getting to him all day. He released it quickly and was unbelievably inaccurate.
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one bad game doesnt make a career. he injured his shoulder on the first big hit in that game. I dont hold it against him anymore than I do the LSU and missouri games when he had trouble gripping the football.
Judge Brees on that Browns game a couple years ago or peyton in the superbowl this year. its one game.
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Funny how people look at things. I have yet to hear one thing that Bridgewater does not do well.
Other than size, I have yet to see or hear one thing that Bortles does better than Bridgewater. Yet he is considered by some to be a better quarterback.
Guys like Ron Jaworski who played 17 years at quarterback ( and studied the position 40 years) along with Charlie Casserly ( a GM for along time) accurately point out the flaws in JM game but a talking head like Mel Kiper has him going number one. How many guys under six foot have been drafted in the first round?
All the things you have pointed out on Bridgewater are gin clear if people just look at the game tape.
Derek Carr has the size, has the speed, has the arm, talks the talk. Yet, when you watch his game tape it is apparent he crumbles when pressured. He played against inferior talent where he stacked numbers with tons of screens. Hard to find true NFL throws that he completes. Inconsistent accuracy all over the place.
McCarron please. The definition of average. Christen Ponder squared.
Jimmy G is an interesting prospect. Classic delivery, great quick feet used to position his body to throw. Dominated weak competition but he knows how to play quarterback. He would be worth a second round pick because there is something there to work with.
I am just Joe bag of donuts fan for fifty years. But this is what my eyes tell me not what someone else tells me:
Bridgewater - Top ten pick. Potential franchise quarterback.
Bortles - mid first round pick. Needs time on the bench
Manziel - second or third rounder. Guy with potential in the right environment.
Garappolo - second or third rounder. Solid prospect. Good potential.
Carr - second or third rounder. Good raw skills. Very risky.
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Funny how people look at things. I have yet to hear one thing that Bridgewater does not do well.
As I have said throughout the year, a lot of Bridgewater's completions beyond the line of scrimmage were to stationary targets. In the game against Miami, he was finally throwing at moving targets (through design or choice) and he was behind the receiver on almost every horizontal route and high more often than not on vertical routes. The nice thing about the corner route, which he seems to nail every time, is that it's a touch pass where the guy is essentially running in a straight line away from you, which can minimize error.
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Bridgewater versus Miami:
Bridgewater 35/45 447yds. 9.9avg. 3 TD 0 int's
Game MVP
71% Completion rate last year. Hard to argue against that. I have seen him make the type of throws that he will need to make in the NFL on a regular basis. He performs all the skills required at a high level. He does not grade out as high as Andrew Luck did but neither does anyone else.
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Latest media comment on Bridgewater: "He is the most NFL ready".
Doesn't that make him the best? Is that not what all these prospects are trying to be? NFL ready.
No, it means that he is at least the QB-equivalent of Brian Robiskie, who was the "most NFL-ready WR" when he came out.
Scary LOL
I agree.
It is scary that someone could actually compare Robo w/Teddy.
What's silly and scary is that you didn't see the humor in Purps post. Anything that is said, even joking, that might diminish your boy Teddy is dealt with the same way, scorn and sarcasm.
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Bridgewater - Top ten pick. Potential franchise quarterback.
Bortles - mid first round pick. Needs time on the bench
Manziel - second or third rounder. Guy with potential in the right environment.
Garappolo - second or third rounder. Solid prospect. Good potential.
Carr - second or third rounder. Good raw skills. Very risky.
Guy with potential in the right environment.
This applies to McCarron, Murray, Mettenberger, Smith, et al, as well.
Would Tom Brady work in a read option offense? Peyton Manning? Ben Roethlisberger?
Everything about QBs (and for that matter, any position) is putting them in a system where they can utilize the talents that they have and succeed at it. Period. It doesn't really matter where you draft them except that other's view the world like you state. This player isn't worthy of a 1st round pick but this other player is. Based on...?
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Everything about QBs (and for that matter, any position) is putting them in a system where they can utilize the talents that they have and succeed at it. Period
Yeah I agree, to an extent. That is the whole premise of my Best Fits series on my site. Some guys, however, just have too many holes.
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Everything about QBs (and for that matter, any position) is putting them in a system where they can utilize the talents that they have and succeed at it. Period
Yeah I agree, to an extent. That is the whole premise of my Best Fits series on my site. Some guys, however, just have too many holes.
You're right. The Browns never should have drafted Brandon Weeden.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
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Funny how people look at things. I have yet to hear one thing that Bridgewater does not do well.
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He performs all the skills required at a high level. He does not grade out as high as Andrew Luck did but neither does anyone else.
Then why doesn't he "grade out" as high as Andrew Luck?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I respect your opinion Steve, but I think you are way, way off in regards to Teddy's accuracy.
I am surprised a guy like you does not value intelligence. There isn't anyone even close to Teddy in that regard. In fact, I think he is one of the smartest qbs to come out in years.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
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What's silly and scary is that you didn't see the humor in Purps post. Anything that is said, even joking, that might diminish your boy Teddy is dealt with the same way, scorn and sarcasm.
Yeah, and you are Mr. Sunshine.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
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I am surprised a guy like you does not value intelligence.
Lol where do you get that?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Draft Garappolo & Matthews To
Sit Behind Hoyer?
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.... We need to form a 8 Dawg Draft board and petition the Browns to allow us to run the Draft , as we are with out a doubt superior to them .. Just as Morg , Toad , GM , Attach / and the list goes on ..
