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I would take Reggie Wayne all day long.
Reggie Wayne is not Reggie Wayne without Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck. 
Get the QB.
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Personally, I see more Percy Harvin in his game. Difference here is the one knock on Harvin...his size and Sammy is bigger. Sammy is 6'1 205 lbs, not the biggest guy in the world, but compared to the 5'11 185lbs Harvin it's a noticable size difference. They are both blazing quick(both run 40's in the high 4.3s-low 4.4s). Both are elusive in the open field and have a knack for making a play on the ball even when it's a bit off target.
Another comparison I see in him is to Roddy White. Watkins is an inch taller and 5lbs lighter, so the size comparison is on par. The biggest difference I see is in the speed. While they have a similair style of play, Watkins is faster.
So if I told you that you could have Roddy White, with Percy Harvin's speed would you take it? I would in a hear beat. Watkins is the second best player in this draft(with Mack as a close 3rd) and he is the best player that is legit target for us that will be an impact from day one.
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Yeah, I can smell what you're cooking. I could be on board with calling him a bigger Percy Harvin type. That's a pretty good comparison.
Where you lost me was asking about Roddy White and Percy Harvin. We do not have a Matt Ryan on the roster, which brings me full circle, we don't need a freaking WR. We're not going to be transformed into a 12 win team by adding Percy Harvin. The Seahawks needed him for exactly one game, which they won in a landslide anyway.
We need a QB, badly. So badly, desperately. Unless he is AJ Green or Megatron, we need to PASS and just muscle up and take our QB. If this FO wants to play the patsy and "wait" until 26, they will regret it.
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I don't see him as being on par as those guys as a prospect before they were drafted. I just don't.
That's fair.. we can just disagree.. I just watch him with his speed and he is definitely a deep threat, has great hands on the slants and crossing routes, and the second you back off him he catches a bubble screen and runs better than anybody on the list.. The only thing he lacks is the height to be a jump ball threat... fine, we'll throw those to Gordon and Cameron. 
yebat' Putin
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Before we jump to hastly into saying we need a QB at 4, let's think for a minute. I personally believe the best QB from this draft in 5 years will not be Bridgewater, Bortles, or even Manziel. I believe it will be Zach Mettenberger. If the FO agrees with me(and let me point out, there is 0 indication that they do) and they wait untill the 2nd round to take Zach(which honestly, many mocks have him falling to the 3rd) then the "No (enter QB name here)" argument doesn't work. I like Hoyer, and would like to add Mettenberger as "insurance" and a "future" policy.
With someone like Watkins paired with Gordon, Cameron, Hawkins, and to a lesser extent Nate Burleson Hoyer would have a field day, and IF(and this is a big "if") Hoyer does dud out or gets hurt, you have Mettenberger to step in.
Let's not forget Mettenberger was considered by most to be a top 10 pick before he tore his ACL. After watching his pro day, I have no questions about his ability and health. If he was a running QB, then yeah it'd be a question. However, Mettenberger is Big Ben 2.0 and I would bet the farm that it will in no way hender his performance.
Bridgewater has admitted he struggles throwing a cold ball, and he was my front runner of the "big 3". However it gets mighty cold in Cleveland and I don't want to use the #4 overall pick on someone with that big of a ? on him, in addition he's a bit frail to be taking hits from defenses like the Bengals, Ravens, and Steelers especially in the cold. TBdub will probably be a decent QB somewhere, but I don't think Cleveland is the right fit for him(and remember I used to be a huge Bridgewater pimp)
I could never sell myself on Bortles. I just don't see it. I said the same thing about Weeden and I'm saying it now. Beware the late riser. Bortles has potential, but potential doesn't win football games, and I simply don't see Bortles being elite. The fact that he's a late riser tells me that he was not looked at highly prior to his rise, and there's a good reason for that. He lacks pocket presence IMO and sturrgles with accuracy at times. I'm telling you the dude is going to be a bust.
Manziel IMO would be the most likely of the 3 and has the most upside of ANY of the QB's. He's a play maker and a gun slinger. These two things are good, but there are other sides to those coins as well though. He is a play maker, but he's also small. The way he makes plays is by playing wreckless. If you're 6'4 and 230lbs, that's a good thing. When you're 6'0 205lbs, well that's a liability. I don't think Manziel will have a very long career in the NFL. Add that to the fact that while we all love our gunslingers when they are throwing TD's, gunslingers also tend to do something else, and that's throw interceptions. Manziel to me is most comprable to Tony Romo(though he's 2 inches shorter and 15lbs lighter). A smaller Tony Romo IMO is not worth the #4 overall pick, especially when you consider that you can get a Big Ben for a second rounder.
I won't even waste my time on Carr, that's a joke.
So you can take any of those guys at 4 and hope the questions about then are wrong...or...you can take Watkins at 4, add him to what is already a solid WR core and give Hoyer and/or Mettenberger great weapons.
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Sorry, I must be in a bad mood today because I had to stop reading at Zach Metternberger. I need a nap I'm cranky.
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Here's my wild speculation....it'll change by tomorrow.
The Browns are targeting either Manziel or Watkins at #4. If they can't get either of them, they'll try and trade down. If they can't trade down, it's Khalil Mack.
Tackles are tackles.
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I think the targets are Mack and Watkins. If they are both gone then trade down. I really don't think they value any QB at #4. But I've been wrong before
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
I think the targets are Mack and Watkins. If they are both gone then trade down. I really don't think they value any QB at #4. But I've been wrong before
I would agree with this, and would even take it a step further and say that if they cannot trade down, they take one of the tackles.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I think one of the T's would be a good choice. Not sexy but decent.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Does who they brought in for visits or saw pro days (not many) influence their choices? Looking at the presumed Top 5 players (no QBs) which seem to be: Clowney, Robinson, Mathews, Mack, and Watkins. Which of those did our FO actually scout - only one I can think of is Mathews as they attended A&Ms pro day, which Johnny did not participate. Perhaps, they are leaning toward taking Mathews with that 4th pick, then QB with their second 1st round pick which they may have to move up to get the one they want (Carr, perhaps) in the mid-teens.
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Not sure if this counts but Pettine went to Mack's proday
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
Does who they brought in for visits or saw pro days (not many) influence their choices? Looking at the presumed Top 5 players (no QBs) which seem to be: Clowney, Robinson, Mathews, Mack, and Watkins. Which of those did our FO actually scout - only one I can think of is Mathews as they attended A&Ms pro day, which Johnny did not participate. Perhaps, they are leaning toward taking Mathews with that 4th pick, then QB with their second 1st round pick which they may have to move up to get the one they want (Carr, perhaps) in the mid-teens.
I'm sure private visits/workouts are HUGE. Maybe not quite as big as their college game tape, but to get them in your building 1 on 1 is important. I can't see how with an early pick that you take a guy that you don't bring in...
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... if they cannot trade down, they take one of the tackles.
I'd take Robinson at #4, even if I could trade down, so...
1) Robinson
2) Trade down and select Gilbert CB (#10?)
3) Sammy
4) There is no fourth choice at #4 in my book...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Clowney
Robinson
Manziel
Mack
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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# 1 Clowney # 2 Mathews # 3 Robinson # 4 Gilbert jmho... I'm on board with you about Mettenburger,an I hope he's still there when we pick @ 35 
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My Top 4 would go:
1) Clowney
2) Watkins
3) Mack
4) Robinson
Although, since this is the Browns and we're running a 3-4, I'd probably move Clowney down the board a bit and bump Matthews in to the top 4.
Teddy was in my top 4 originally, but has done nothing to impress since the season ended. If we do draft a QB at #4, I'm hoping it's because the front office has done their homework, brought their guy into private workout sessions and deemed him to be worthy of a top 5 pick.
However, I get the feeling all the QBs are grading out to be mid-teens, twenty's type prospects, and I don't think that's something we should be reaching for at #4. Get an elite guy there or trade down and get a QB later. I have a feeling one of the "big 3" is going to drop to 26 anyway, so we can get one of them there ... and I also think that one of the second round QBs will have just as much chance at success if we surround him with the right talent and give him time to learn the system.
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Quote:
The only thing worse than not having a franchise QB is wasting a top 5 pick to take a QB who doesn't turn out to be a franchise QB.
Amen Brotha!
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Quote:
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The only thing worse than not having a franchise QB is wasting a top 5 pick to take a QB who doesn't turn out to be a franchise QB.
Amen Brotha!
You can't win the lottery if you don't play.
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I would like to revisit my top 4 with 2 scenarios....
If no QB is taken prior to 4:
1)trade down preferably 6-10
-if still no QB taken 1)Robinson 2)Gilbert 3)trade down 4a)Manziel 4b)Teddy
2)Mack(only if trade present for Sheard)
3)Robinson
4)Gilbert
If any QB is gone before 4:
1a)Manziel 1b)Teddy
3)Mack
4)Robinson
Hopefully my first scenario is possible. I have no idea what to believe on the state of the QB in this class.
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I can't believe so many people want to trade down. I really think the media may be right about Browns fans being way too obsessed with draft picks.
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Well, that fanspeak draft simulator thing can't be helping... people think we can trade down and get sammy watkins and manziel and justin gilbert and Zach Martin and wait until the 4th to get skov, hyde in the 5th...
I think that thing is rigged to let good players fall so people will keep doing it and posting their results.
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1. Clowney
2. Watkins
3. Mack
4. Robinson
Straight forward.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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1) Tie: Clowney / Mack
2) Trade Down into top 10 - 15
3) Tie: Robinson / Matthews
4) Watkins
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I agree.
It's a waste of time if you have done it more than once.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I can't believe so many people want to trade down. I really think the media may be right about Browns fans being way too obsessed with draft picks.
I agree. We are trying to ad some age to this team. We have 10 picks. I doubt we end up with 10 drafted players. My thinking is we are going to be trading up a few times and end up with 5-6 drafted players.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I can't believe so many people want to trade down. I really think the media may be right about Browns fans being way too obsessed with draft picks.
I can't speak for any other dawg that is strongly pimping trading down. But, once you start getting into the area of sabermetrics, there is a lot of evidence to suggest that trading down and aquiring picks is the most successful thing you can do in any of the sports.
Trading down and aquiring picks wouldn't be my first choice if Luck or Griffin were available. If the players that are available in the top 5 aren't surefire gamechangers, and aquiring picks is a real strong strategy, then....
We HAVE to look at it.
We have said we are going to start building our team through the draft. We are "going to be like the steelroids" blah, blah
I value extra picks over the players that are available at 1-5. I don't understand the guy who says we have to draft a QB now, when the QB's are Teddy, Derek, Blake, Zach, AJ, etc.... My thinking is, we really need to draft a QB now if one that can take us to the Super Bowl is available. If not, then it is a stupid decision. Stupid. I really don't want to imply that anybodies ideas on this board are stupid, but I do think that this idea, like many of the decisions the Cleveland Browns have made since the day our expansion was announced, is stupid.
I think trading down and aquiring picks is the best route to go. I like Manziel, Mack, and Sammy. But, if I can trade out and get a #1 next year -- the deal's done. If we draft Teddy or Derek or Blake or whomever, I will be behind them 100% hoping for their success and hoping they prove me wrong. I just don't see how any of those three are going to reach an NFL Elite status, I don't see how they are going to walk up to center, as an Elite NFL Quarterback and lead the Browns to mulitiple playoff victories. I don't think they have enough of "it". Manziel is a different story, but his emotional maturity is a big enough question mark to make anybody worry.
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You can't win the lottery if you sell your ticket. A ton of people (myself included) were excited to trade down with Atlanta. What a terrible mistake that was. Phil Taylor isn't half the player Julio Jones has been.....oh and Brandon Weeden was our consolation prize.
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I don't think you can say the ATL trade was a failure because Weeden sucked...
But I would trade Weeden, Phil, and Little for Julio no questions asked...
Not that ATL would..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
You can't win the lottery if you sell your ticket. A ton of people (myself included) were excited to trade down with Atlanta.
What a terrible mistake that was. Phil Taylor isn't half the player Julio Jones has been.....oh and Brandon Weeden was our consolation prize.
Just because our FO was horrid with their picks doesn't mean it was a bad trade. It was a great trade. Who's to say we even wanted Julio? I had 5 guys I wanted before a trade down. The only one left was Watt, bummer. Heck I wanted Cameron Jordan where we took Phil. I'd trade Julio for him all day then you want to give me and extra second and 1st?? Suuuure I'd love Justin Houston and in 2012? Why not Michael Floyd and Harrison Smith? Hey thanks Atlanta for making us great brought to you by Preds draft board. I'm gonna go cry in a corner now.
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What's the saying, sometimes the moves you don't make are the best ones. Absolutely applies in the NFL draft.
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The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
That's obviously true to some degree, but the prevalent thought (according to the Sirius "experts") is that the opposite is true, in fact...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 05/01/14 04:33 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Quote:
Quote:
The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
That's obviously true to some degree, but the prevalent thought (according to the Sirius "experts") is that the opposite is true, in fact...
If that were even remotely true guys like (insert any scrub since Kurt Warner and before Carson Palmer) should look good. Andy Dalton should be a world beater!
Did Weeden look good when Gordon was breaking records last year? Absolutely not.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
That's obviously true to some degree, but the prevalent thought (according to the Sirius "experts") is that the opposite is true, in fact...
If that were even remotely true guys like (insert any scrub since Kurt Warner and before Carson Palmer) should look good. Andy Dalton should be a world beater!
Did Weeden look good when Gordon was breaking records last year? Absolutely not.
My point was that a good QB will make a so-so WR look better. I'm not certain what point you are making, BpG...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 05/01/14 04:54 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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The Cardinals have Larry Fitz..
But between Warner and Plamer.. EVERYONE looked like crap...
Because great WRs don't make crappy QBs good...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
That's obviously true to some degree, but the prevalent thought (according to the Sirius "experts") is that the opposite is true, in fact...
If that were even remotely true guys like (insert any scrub since Kurt Warner and before Carson Palmer) should look good. Andy Dalton should be a world beater!
Did Weeden look good when Gordon was breaking records last year? Absolutely not.
My point was that a good QB will make a so-so WR look better. I'm not certain what point you are making, BpG...
I thought you were agreeing a great WR makes a QB. My mistake.
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Quote:
Because great WRs don't make crappy QBs good...
Perhaps I mis-read your inital post. Am I correct in saying we're all on the same page?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
What if you had a pro bowl WR, a Pro Bowl TE, and 2 Pro Bowl OL? That would probably make your QB look awesome.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
The argument was, why take the WR when we didn't have a QB to throw to him..
I always figured a great WR could make an average QB (look) better, but that's just me..
What if you had a pro bowl WR, a Pro Bowl TE, and 2 Pro Bowl OL? That would probably make your QB look awesome.
Only if you had a Top 5 RB...
Oh, draft pick wise doesn't count? Dang..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Your top 4?
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