DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Shootings at Virginia Tech

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I do not believe anybody should be carrying a gun other than cops and Marines.

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. . . and then. . .

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Guns ARE NOT the problem, but the lack of control over who has them is,....

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If guns are not the problem then why do you want to take them away from citizens? I am sure you realize making guns illegal will not end gun violence. It would be as futile as the drug war. These acts of violence have always been and always will be. Taking away the only defense law-abiding citizens have against these forces is not a practical option.

I understand.....I own more than 1...personal choice.

I am ex Army.....maybe that ranks in your book

up tp 33 now... this is sick!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html


BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- At least 33 people, including a gunman, were killed Monday during shootings in a dorm and a classroom building at Virginia Tech, university officials said.

Two people were killed at a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., while another 30 people were killed about two hours later at Norris Hall -- the engineering science and mechanics building -- university officials said.

University police Chief Wendell Flinchum said police were still investigating whether the two incidents are related. Investigators are not ruling out a second shooter, Flinchum said. (Watch the police chief explain where bodies were found )

The death toll at Norris Hall makes the incident the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

The gunman at Norris Hall, who police say took his own life, was not carrying identification and has not been identified.

Freshman Erin Sheehan told the university newspaper she was in German class at Norris when the gunman peeked in twice "like he was looking for someone" and then started shooting.

The students tried to blockade the door, but the shooter -- dressed in "a Boy Scout-type outfit" -- made it inside.

"I saw bullets hit people's body," Sheehan told The Collegiate Times. "There was blood everywhere. People in the class were passed out -- I don't know maybe from shock from the pain. But I was one of only four that made it out of that classroom." (Watch students react to shooting )

The remaining students, about 20 of them, were dead or injured, she told the newspaper.

"Norris Hall is a tragic and a sorrowful crime scene, and we are in the process of identifying victims," university President Charles Steger said.

Gov. Timothy Kaine, who was reportedly rushing home from a series of business-recruitment meetings in Tokyo, Japan, declared a state of emergency.


Asked why the campus, which has more than 26,000 students, was not shut down after the first shooting, Flinchum responded that police determined "it was an isolated event to that building and the decision was made not to cancel classes at that time." (Watch gunfire on the campus )

Steger added, "We had some reason to believe the shooter had left campus."

Spokespersons for hospitals in Roanoke, Christiansburg, Blacksburg and Salem told CNN they were treating a total of 29 injured people from the shootings.

Sharon Honaker with Carilion New River Medical Center in Christiansburg said one of the four gunshot victims being treated there was in critical condition.

Scott Hill, a spokesman for Montgomery Regional Hospital in Blacksburg, where 17 wounded students were taken, said he wasn't expecting any more victims.

The first reported shootings occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a dormitory that houses 895 students. The dormitory, one of the largest residence halls on the 2,600-acre campus, is located near the drill field and stadium. (Campus map)

Amie Steele, editor-in-chief of the campus newspaper, said one of her reporters at the dormitory reported "mass chaos."

The reporter said there were "lots of students running around, going crazy, and the police officers were trying to settle everyone down and keep everything under control," according to Steele. (Watch police, ambulances hustle to the scene )

Kristyn Heiser said she was in class about 9:30 a.m. when she and her classmates saw about six gun-wielding police officers run by a window, apparently responding to the Norris Hall shooting.

"We were like, 'What's going on?' Because this definitely is a quaint town where stuff doesn't really happen. It's pretty boring here," said Heiser during a phone interview as she sat on her classroom floor.

Another student, Tiffany Otey, said she and her classmates thought the gunshots were construction noise until they heard screaming and police officers with bulletproof vests and machine guns entered her classroom.

"They were telling us to put our hands above our head and if we didn't cooperate and put our hands above our heads they would shoot," Otey said. "I guess they were afraid, like us -- like the shooter was going to be among one of us."

Student reports 'mayhem'
Student Matt Waldron said he did not hear the gunshots because he was listening to music, but he heard police sirens and saw officers hiding behind trees with their guns drawn.

"They told us to get out of there so we ran across the drill field as quick as we could," he said.

Waldron described the scene on campus as "mayhem." (Watch a student's recording of police responding to loud bangs )

"It was kind of scary," he said. "These two kids I guess had panicked and jumped out of the top-story window and the one kid broke his ankle and the other girl was not in good shape just lying on the ground."

Madison Van Duyne said she and her classmates in a media writing class were on "lockdown" in their classroom. They were huddled in the middle of the classroom, writing stories about the shootings and posting them online.

The university is updating students through e-mails, and an Internet webcam is broadcasting live pictures of the campus.

The shootings came three days after a bomb threat Friday forced the cancellation of classes in three buildings, WDBJ in Roanoke reported. Also, the 100,000-square-foot Torgersen Hall was evacuated April 2 after police received a written bomb threat, The Roanoke Times reported.

Last August, the first day of classes was cut short by a manhunt for an escaped prisoner accused of killing a Blacksburg hospital security guard and a sheriff's deputy.

After the Monday shootings, students were instructed to stay indoors and away from windows, according to a university statement. (Watch a student describe living through a "college Columbine" )

The university has scheduled a convocation for 2 p.m. ET Tuesday. Classes also have been canceled Tuesday. In Washington, the House and Senate observed moments of silence for the victims and President Bush said the nation was "shocked and saddened" by news of the tragedy.

"Today, our nation grieves with those who have lost loved ones," he said. "We hold the victims in our hearts, we lift them up in our prayers and we ask a loving God to comfort those who are suffering today."

Before Monday, the deadliest mass shooting occurred in 1991, when George Hennard drove a pickup truck into a Killeen, Texas, cafeteria and then fatally shot 23 people, before shooting himself.

The deadliest school shootings came in 1966 and 1999. In the former, Charles Joseph Whitman, a 25-year-old ex-Marine, killed 13 people on the University of Texas campus. He was killed by police.

In 1999, 17-year-old Dylan Klebold and 18-year-old Eric Harris -- armed with guns and pipe bombs -- killed 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado.

FOXNEWS now reports 50 shot, 33 dead.

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smart move....the President had nothing to do with this ....why in the heck would you even say that and bring him into this??

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"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said

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Because the WhiteHouse brought it up when addressing the situation.

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As to guns....as Michelle said...guns aren't the problem.

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They are part of the problem Peen. Obviously you can't account for the crackpots out there and as you said, there are other ways and means to do damage and people will always find a way. But then, why make it so damn easy for crackpots to access high powered semi automatic weapons? Seems like your not tipping the odds in your favour.

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If 5-6 students had guns on them, I wonder if things might have changed??

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Like the Wild West eh? How about this statement instead?

" If no students had guns on them, i wonder if things might have changed?"



I don't know if these spree killings happen in any other society with such regularity as they do in the States or wether they do but just don't get the same coverage.

I know there was a spree killer in Tasmania a few years back and the Aussie government immediately reigned in the gun laws. There are sieges in Russia with mass murders but they tend to be politically motivated.
Seriously, how many school shootings can be tolerated before you form a strategy?

all I have to offer is my prayers for the families affected by this tragedy....

School shootings have happened ever since there have been guns... before that it was sabres...

I'd prefer to be on the receiving end of a sabre than an UZI....i'll take my chances and like the odds a hell of a lot better.

OK... well unless you can go back several hundred years I don't think you'll have that chance... good luck though

I wasn't advocating anything, just stating an opinion. If I choose to violate my own Second Amendment rights by not owning a gun, who are you to tell me different ?? If I'm next, I'm next, so be it. I would have no control over the situation, as you pointed out, so where's the beef ? To be clear I am not talking about a person's "right" to own a gun,....I'm talking about his ability to "prove" he should be granted the privilege. Society and our government do not demand this, even though it would be the correct thing to do, because of the MONEY--not because of your individual right to own,...

Time for a mini-rant of my own. This is the largest mass murder in US history and what is running on ABC and NBC right now. Deal or No Deal and Dancing With the Stars. How many millions of Americans do you think are watching these shows right now? How many still do not know what is happening? What the hell is going on with this country.

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OK... well unless you can go back several hundred years I don't think you'll have that chance... good luck though

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Ok..... i'll remember that the next time that " I " bring Sabres into the conversation........oh wait.

NRTU

Absolutly horrible... Blacksburgh is one of the nicest and I thought safest towns that I have ever been in. I worked at Montgomery Regional for a couple of months (where 12 of the students are now admitted), and spent a lot of time on VT's campus... I have some riends and my family knows some people that go to the school... Thankfully all were ok. One neighbor of my grandparents was suppose to be in the room where the shooting took place; however, she was late for class because she decided to stop at Burger King to get breakfast....

My prayers go out to the administrators and the friends and family of the slain. Absolutly horrible.

Sorry, I didn't see the distinction. That makes sense and I agree with what you are saying.

There you go proving my point,.....what is IMPORTANT,...i.e. the safety and security of our citizenry through training and instilling sound moral prinicple,.....?? OR,...making the cash,....??

Most people do know by now... and if they're like me they're sick of watching it. There's nothing of significance to come out tonight. The people who want to watch a whole lotta nothing new will watch one of the news channels.

Anyone see that girls interview who pretened to be dead, jeeze that was chilling.

Did the gunman come back in and shoot again on the second sweep??

My thoughts are with the parents that watched their kids go away to school with the hope that college would prepare their kids for a good future. How awful it must be for them.

My prayers and thoughts go out to their families. This is terrible.

MSNBC has had a few kids on tonight from the first (German) class. Derek O'Dell and a Trey (I missed the last name). Their stories were horrific. The shooter came into the classroom, shot the prof, and fired around the room. After he left, the two who called, as well as two other students, went down and blockaded the door with their feet to prevent him from re-entering. He tried, and failed. Then these four young people went around and gave First Aid to victims by putting pressure on the wounds that were there. If their stories check out, those four people are heroes.

MSNBC is now reporting that it was a 9mm and a 22, not two 9's as earlier reported.

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smart move....the President had nothing to do with this ....why in the heck would you even say that and bring him into this??



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"The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed," spokeswoman Dana Perino said



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Because the WhiteHouse brought it up when addressing the situation.

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I thought a reporter asked something about the necessity of gun control and that was their response.

You can only hope that the real meaning was a communication from some foreign terrorist organization that was flexing it's muscle.

Look how easy it is to shut down our entire country in just a couple of minutes,....

More like a lone gunman with his own agenda. If it were terrorist related they could have done alot more damage as a team or series of teams. As far as shuting the country down ...nah. This was a hickup in the average persons day . 911 on the other hand was an example of crippling a nation. I am amazed a scenario like this taking place in a mall has not occured more often. Sad scene.

Oh god, I just flipped to MSNBC and they're talking about videogames and Goldeneye on N64...here we go again......

The violence protesters, blahblahblahblahblah. A person should be responsible enough not to go shoot someone after they view a movie. I they kill somone that's their own damn fault.

LOL at the top of the topic page the banner is for Airsoft "splat"guns.

Wow when I left it didn't sound like a big deal. Shootings happen all the time,,but when I got to work and checked my e-mail I saw 33 dead Execution style? My God

I agree... the guy was a psycho but also a terrorist...

Point taken . Actually I was not refering to any nationality at all. Terrorist does not mean Arab. My honest guess is he will be from Indonesia, or a Muslim country and will have a beef with this country because of his religious views . Hope that isn't the case because then all Muslims will have to face a backlash.

Chicago Sun-Times

Gunman kills 32 at Virginia Tech before being killed

April 16, 2007
BY MICHAEL SNEED Sun-Times Columnist

Authorities were investigating whether the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history was a Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups, the source said.

Police believe three bomb threats on the campus last week may have been attempts by the man to test the campus’ security response, the source said.

The exits to the buildings where the shootings occurred were chained by the shooter, the source said.

Students complained that there were no public address announcements or other warnings on campus after the first burst of gunfire. They said the first word they received from the university was an e-mail more than two hours into the rampage — around the time the gunman struck again.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger said authorities believed the shooting at the dorm was a domestic dispute and mistakenly thought the gunman had fled the campus.

‘‘We had no reason to suspect any other incident was going to occur,’’ he said.

He defended the university’s handling of the tragedy: ‘‘We can only make decisions based on the information you had on the time. You don’t have hours to reflect on it.’’

Steger said the university decided to rely on e-mail and other electronic means of notifying members of the university, but with 11,000 people driving onto campus first thing in the morning, it was difficult to get the word out to everyone.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum would not say how many weapons the gunman carried. But a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation was incomplete, said that the gunman had two pistols and multiple clips of ammunition.

Contributing: Associated Press

Sounds like they finally might know who the guy who did it was...

questions on if the first shooting is linked to the second massacre...

Terrorism is defined by the US Department of Defense as "the unlawful use of -- or threatened use of -- force or violence against individuals or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives."

pbs.org definitions

Unless the shooter leaves a note indicating otherwise, this is mass murder not terrorism.

You know what really is pissing me off?? The whole damn media blaming the police and administration on not shuting down the campus after the first shooting...

every interview with a student they have they've asked basically "do you blame the school" and every student says that you can't put the blame there or be angry with the cops/school. One guy had a really good point that even if they told everyone there was a shooting and the shcool was shut down that would probably mean people would still be targets either on the commons or in the caf or something.

I'm still interested to see if the two shootings are actually related or not. I assume they are but the more I hear the more i wonder if they weren't or at least were two shooters.

j/c...

I'm watching the reports on Fox News right now. This is really sad

so far this doenst strike me as an act of terrorism... it looks more like a young person, who as a jilted lover was having a hard time dealing with school...IMO

What I don't see is this just being an act of a "jilted lover." He killed his girlfriend and then hours later goes and kills 30 people? Does that make sense? There has got to be more to his actions than just that.

Its the age old idea, that its better to flame out than fade away.