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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Twitter. 
Any real answers?
In these present times the more "reputable" media outlets use twitter as their source for this sort of thing.
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JC
... if we didn't pursue Ben Tate, it would be a crime. If he's wanting too much, then I think we should just go to the draft then...
As for QB, then I'd be okay with Grossman on the terms we still draft a qb, and release Weeden and Campbell.
If he's wanting too much then the team could, (I would at least) pursue Gerhart and then draft another big physical back (Hyde) to pair him with. Kinda like the Steelers have two or three guys that can pound the ball. There are already smaller, shifty guys under contract.
I hardly think it would be a crime to miss out on highly overpaying for a position easily filled by youth not known to spend most of their career injured like Tate. The man is made of glass.
I read these boards for enjoyment so I try not to be belligerent or abrasive when I respond to post even when I don't agree with them. So, when I said "IF he's wanting too much" what I was trying to say is pursuing a RB who presumably wants a big pay day and has a multitude of injuries of varying seriousness in his career would take him out of consideration all together if it were my decision to make.
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While doing some surfing this afternoon I cam across a small piece on the NFL site that states the Schaub is on the record as being unwilling to back up Geno Smith if signed to the Jets. By extension you could apply that to Hoyer or the yet unidentified rookie QB in Cleveland. For me that would be a deal breaker.
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maybe its not the back up position per se , only that he would back up Geno Smith.. LOL
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Practice Squad
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While doing some surfing this afternoon I cam across a small piece on the NFL site that states the Schaub is on the record as being unwilling to back up Geno Smith if signed to the Jets. By extension you could apply that to Hoyer or the yet unidentified rookie QB in Cleveland. For me that would be a deal breaker.
After the end of his season, he probably doesn't have much of a choice in the matter if he wants to continue playing in the NFL.
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Legend
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Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Legend
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jc Per Adam Schefter: Quote:
One GM today on free-agent RBs: "That position needs its own union. We treat our equipment people better than we treat our running backs."
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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What a difference a decade makes, huh?
I feel for the RBs...they take many hits, have the shortest careers and get paid as much as or even less than kickers and punters these days. The Colts punter just got 3mil/season and maybe 2 of the FA RBs will be able to match that or get slightly more, crazy.
I think the de-valuation of the position is at a point, where it'd be wise and valuable to go run heavy again and sign as many talented RBs as possible at a low price. If the entire league runs in one direction, maybe it's worth to be a little old-school again. Many teams have S-like LBs these days, they can be run over with a power running Offense.
Me thinks Pettine has that kind of mentality. Sign Jennings and Gerhart, sign Shelley Smith for RG, draft a LG like Gabe Jackson early, draft Hyde or the kid from Towson and run over those finesse Ds the league is trending to with the occasional PA passes to Gordon/Cameron. That'd be our best shot at a quick turnaround in production on Offense
#gmstrong
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I think the de-valuation of the position is at a point, where it'd be wise and valuable to go run heavy again and sign as many talented RBs as possible at a low price. If the entire league runs in one direction, maybe it's worth to be a little old-school again. Many teams have S-like LBs these days, they can be run over with a power running Offense.
Me thinks Pettine has that kind of mentality. Sign Jennings and Gerhart, sign Shelley Smith for RG, draft a LG like Gabe Jackson early, draft Hyde or the kid from Towson and run over those finesse Ds the league is trending to with the occasional PA passes to Gordon/Cameron. That'd be our best shot at a quick turnaround in production on Offense.
Where's the "Like" button around here? There's few things better than watching your team ice a game with a nine minute 4th quarter drive where you run it down their throats, break their will, score a TD ... and watch the smiles on the faces on the sideline as we win.
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Outside of a very few special running back like AP and a Lynch who came out the same season btw with what 15 slots separating the two. There is not much separating the 2nd round RB from the 6th. Its a position that does not beckon for Height. The majority of athletes are still 6 feet or under. You got some 50 RBs from every state that actually have game going into colleges. There is an emphasis on pass catching and pass blocking - two things that were involved in the transition of College RB to NFL.
Also there was not much else in transition. One of the most innate positions in football. Natural ability of vision and reaction.
They are protected and with out medical provisions in the CBA where all injuries get declared the abuse is not what it use to be. But it adds up from HS and college - for most its the accumulation of concussions and the pounding on the shoulders which has always made the avg. RB run of peak years to be 5.
Usually the rule of thumb is you don't take an RB high unless its a weak draft. 2005 was weak - Why the Trent thing went below normal standards. Why AP went #7 not top 3.
But there will only be ONE Jim Brown to carry a team the way he did. Walter did but his teams didn't do much so carry them where? Sanders came close to JB status. AP falls under Walter - carry them where?
But there are just sooooo many RBs coming into the league year in year out. Like any commodity it comes down to Supply and Demand. Why Left Tackles make what they make, Why QBs make what they make - Why RBs make what they make.
Jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
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I think the de-valuation of the position is at a point, where it'd be wise and valuable to go run heavy again and sign as many talented RBs as possible at a low price. If the entire league runs in one direction, maybe it's worth to be a little old-school again. Many teams have S-like LBs these days, they can be run over with a power running Offense.
Me thinks Pettine has that kind of mentality. Sign Jennings and Gerhart, sign Shelley Smith for RG, draft a LG like Gabe Jackson early, draft Hyde or the kid from Towson and run over those finesse Ds the league is trending to with the occasional PA passes to Gordon/Cameron. That'd be our best shot at a quick turnaround in production on Offense.
where's the "Like" button around here? There's few things better than watching your team ice a game with a nine minute 4th quarter drive where you run it down their throats, break their will, score a TD ... and watch the smiles on the faces on the sideline as we win.
the only problem is that we have been shown time and time again that RB's are a dime a dozen and can easily be plugged into any team and they can get performance out of them in a few weeks. There isn't many teams in the league using a single RB as their star player. The days of Emmit Smith are long gone and tThat is why there is no value in RB's anymore. They get hurt easily and there are tons of them sitting on the bench collecting dust.
Personally, I'd rather pay more for a high quality #3WR than a starting RB.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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I disagree.
The Browns RB situation last season disproved that RB are dime a dozen. It's becoming a trend to say that, but our RB situation last season was our only constant negative. We even had good QB performances from all 3 QBs at one point, but the running game sucked throughout the season and limited our Offense and made it predictable because no D had to care about it. They'd stop it on their way to the QB or out of coverage...McGahee or the UDFA guys weren't going to run away from anyone. It's like people forgot that THIS was a main reason we lost games last year. Our QB play improved from 2012 and we still lost one more game because our RB depth chart sucked and ws worse than that of a dozen College programms.
Sure, the position is deep within the league and in most drafts, but like other positions, ther are still nuances and there's still a hierarchy of ability. As for this draft, I don't see RB as being deeper than say WR.
My point is that there's no point in going cheap at a position where you can get cheap value by paying good talents the equivalent of what kickers and punters make. It's worth paying a little more for MUCH more. We found out the hard way last season that they're NOT dime a dozen imho
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
I think the de-valuation of the position is at a point, where it'd be wise and valuable to go run heavy again and sign as many talented RBs as possible at a low price. If the entire league runs in one direction, maybe it's worth to be a little old-school again. Many teams have S-like LBs these days, they can be run over with a power running Offense.
Zigging when everyone else zags is not a bad idea. It is often the best idea.
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I don't believe a "complete RB" is found as easily as some make it sound. Can they be found later in the draft? Yes they can, but the odds aren't great.
I do agree that many people looked for many different reasons we kept blowing 4rth quarter leads last season. While it may sound like it's oversimplifying things, if we had a consistent run game and controlled the TOP, we wouldn't have lost them.
If you can get a RB who can block, run and catch at bargain basement prices, there's no reason to pass on him. It gives you time to find your answer in the draft without being having no running game until you do.
But we'll still have to answer the OG position at a minimum to address the run game.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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I think the de-valuation of the position is at a point, where it'd be wise and valuable to go run heavy again and sign as many talented RBs as possible at a low price. If the entire league runs in one direction, maybe it's worth to be a little old-school again. Many teams have S-like LBs these days, they can be run over with a power running Offense.
Zigging when everyone else zags is not a bad idea. It is often the best idea.
I also think that it is a bit overhyped. Team(YPC Rank, Yds/Game Rank)
NFC-Champ game was Seattle (9,4) vs. SF (12,3)
AFC-Champ game was Denver (17,15) vs. NE (9,9)
3 of the biggest turnaround teams last year did alot on the ground in Philly(1,1), KC(4,10), and Carolina (14,11). Heck, even GB(4,7) focused more on the ground last year.
----------------
yes, you need a QB as a differentiation factor more than ever in the NFL today, but you still need a ground game and most of the elite teams have one.
#gmstrong
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focused more on the ground last year. I think too much is being put on the supposed talent of the RB rather than the offense itself.
1. you have to have a flow in the O.
2. you have to have a commitment to RUN THE BALL WELL see the above statement which was a key statement regarding a running game. "FOCUS".
3. McGahee yes over the hill that is to the extreme. But your Bakers or how bout the kid everyone was claiming how dumb we were for letting Go Rainey? Ya really think he had more talent than the kid Baker. Rainey btw was the same guy that was HERE DOING NOTHING.
4. OL you say. Nah its the commitment to Run the ball. Actually the skill set to run the ball in regards to OL is not that high...its the pass blocking that usually separates them.
5. 09 - we had no QB relying on for the O so we MADE A COMMITMENT TO RUN THE BALL. Great OL nah, Great RB nah. Great "FOCUS" - we won our last 4 games (  right out of the Sam Bradford sweepstakes)
We won one game by accumulating 19 yards in the air. We won another game by throwing the ball a whopping 9 times.
6. There might be some SIZE differentials in the earlier round picks from later ones. But skill set there is not a big separation that some of you think.
Oh sure there are some obvious. Like LeSean McKoy - no reason for him to be in the mid 2nd round. And not so obvious as in Trent so far being less productive than most mid round RBs.
The Browns...unfortunately we've had some real bad picking in the draft since 1999 - but we have never had offensive flow...07 maybe being the only exception.
That was offensive flow. I thought the good in Hoyer was some offensive flow.
Mangini had some commitment to the run that was about it. Why we did what we did in 09 and Hillis in 2010.
McGahee is not a real good example of the avg later round talent vs top talent. He's a good example of a RB getting pulled off the couch...Beer Belly and all. 
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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All Pro
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J/C
I'm not sold on Lewis or Baker. Fans have gone goo-goo for Ben Gay, Jerome Harrison, that Davis guy, on and on. Every year. I like OgBon's versatility, but I'd prefer a traditional FB.
Sproles would be a great weapon if he's still got a few years. Imagine him on the field with Cameron and Gordon. Compliment him with Tate or a bruiser in the draft.
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Any RB looks good when he has nice holes to run through, and bad when he has no holes (well as long as he is not a dancer) Kelly 8th round Byner 10th round Mack USFL Hillis 7th round OK only one good year Greg Pruitt 2nd round
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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~ Legend
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Well, Jerome Harrison was pretty great.
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I disagree.
The Browns RB situation last season disproved that RB are dime a dozen. It's becoming a trend to say that, but our RB situation last season was our only constant negative. We even had good QB performances from all 3 QBs at one point,
Weeden never played "good." He had a couple of moments in one game. He still sucked for the most of that game.
Our RBs were pretty bad, but they were not the real problem.
Our problem had three aspects:
1. Yes, the RBs were substandard.
2. Our OL did not open many holes.
3. Norv would too often abandon the run.
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I disagree.
The Browns RB situation last season disproved that RB are dime a dozen. It's becoming a trend to say that, but our RB situation last season was our only constant negative. We even had good QB performances from all 3 QBs at one point,
Weeden never played "good." He had a couple of moments in one game. He still sucked for the most of that game.
Our RBs were pretty bad, but they were not the real problem.
Our problem had three aspects:
1. Yes, the RBs were substandard.
2. Our OL did not open many holes.
3. Norv would too often abandon the run.
Interesting thought... Chicken/Egg: If the RB were substandard, and thus our run game sucked and was going nowhere, could you really, possibly abandon it too early when you KNOW it is completely ineffective and that won't change? Call me silly, but I'd surmise that Norv has been around long enough to have a feel for when his run game isn't going to cut it that day.
As for holes: Trent Richardson left here and went to a - by all reasonable standards - better team... and proceeded to average less yards per carry than he did here, and significantly so. So, perhaps we didn't make holes you could drive a truck through, but at least even TRich could get 3.4 per carry here. Imagine if we had a GOOD running back.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Further proof of that point is that some kid off the streets (Baker) produced AVG NFL results behind the same OL. The blocking wasn't great, but it was not the main problem, the RBs inability was the much bigger problem
#gmstrong
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End of an era.
Gabbert traded to the 49ers
look-out Colt!!!!
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couldn't believe they got a 6th for him. Polian said he's just a camp guy. don't expect any contributions to the football team. Ouch.
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Quote:
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End of an era.
Gabbert traded to the 49ers
look-out Colt!!!!
Colts a FA, right?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Harbaugh's greatest project yet. Gabbert makes twice as much as Kaepernick (for now).
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Quote:
Quote:
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End of an era.
Gabbert traded to the 49ers
look-out Colt!!!!
Colts a FA, right?
indeed he is. thought he had 1 more year. thanks.
#gmstrong
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Here in CLE, told Brian Hoyer ahead of schedule. Will compete for starting job. Prob not w/ rookie. Brass not in LOVE w/ any prospect.
Aditi Kinkhabwala, Twitter
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End of an era.
Gabbert traded to the 49ers
That's actually good news. If Gabby is worth a 6th, then Weeden should be trade-able too.
There's till hope for my bust pimpings
They'll be back an go all Josh McCown on the league. Watch and see 
Seriously though, Weeden was less crappy than Gabbert. Hold on to him until a QB goes down somewhere or trade him on draft day for a 7th and draft your franchise FB with that pick
#gmstrong
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Blaine Gabbert will turn 25 in October. Brandon Weeden will turn 31 in October.
That is why we will get nothing for Weeden.
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At this point, nobody trades for them and hopes they'd become starters. Both are backups, so age really doesn't matter.
Both have the same level of football experience. Gabbbert costs the 49ers 2mil in 2014, Weeden will be a 1.12mil cost for any team that trades for him and is under contract for 2015 too at 1.5mil.
Short and mid term, Weeden is the better deal for backup QB. I still think we will get something for him. He'd be a perfect fit and instant backup upgrade for ATL, CHI and SD
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I doubt we get anything for Weeden. I don't know who would want to trade for him. Why would you?
Terrible QB, old, and a moron who runs his mouth to boot.
If a team really wanted to take a flier on him, just wait until he's released. It's not like you're going to get caught in a bidding war for the guy.
And how is he an upgrade over McCown?
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McCown is a FA and probably won't come back as he seeks a chance to compete (TB and Jets are rumored)
If I'm a Chargers, Bears or Falcons fan I'd rather have Weeden coming in as a backup than Brad Sorenson, Jerrod Johnson or Dom Davis, whoever they are, lol
You hate Weeden, I get it...and I think he still has some backup value in this league (especially with his contract the next two seasons) where guys like Boller, Rosenfels, Henne and David Carr and many others made a career out of it after failing as starters. If McCoy and Gabbert can fetch a pick, so can Weeden. Maybe he doesn't and gets cut, but he will get signed and be a backup QB somewhere next season, you will see.
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You hate Weeden, I get it
I'll be happy when he's gone, but I don't hate Weeden at all. I've never met the guy.
I'm just stating facts.
Quote:
If McCoy and Gabbert can fetch a pick, so can Weeden.
How do you come to that logic?
Both are arguably better options than Weeden.
Weeden has a gun...and that's it.
I'm not saying he can't or won't land a backup gig in the NFL, but I don't see a team trading for him. I mean, I guess it's possible that he could fetch a 7th rounder...but again - why not just wait until he gets the ax?
It's not like you're risking getting into a bidding war over the guy.
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...because it's not guaranteed that we would ax him since it does not make any sense financally for us. Best case for us and an interested team would be a small trade, as they would have him under control for 2 seasons at a low price and we would save his base salaries. Win-win...and win for Weeden as he wants out.
It comes down to this: you think he's even worse than Gabbert and McCoy although he's not by MANY standards, not just opinion. Thus I think he'd be instantly an above AVG backup QB, who can come in and win a game, yes, with his arm. That's all a backup QB needs to do sometimes, see the Bills TNG. That was actually the ultimate proof of my point since they had to play their crappy backup too. We had the better backup and won, despite being down 2 scores early.
You should take the time and list all primary backups in the league right now and tell me with a straight face that 10 of them would be better in a situation like that.
Since you probably will, let's just agree to disagree and move on to more important topics...
#gmstrong
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Three teams showing interest in RB Toby Gerhart, per source. They are the Niners, Jaguars and Browns. https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo
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I almost made a crack about you bringing up the Buffalo game.
You're seriously still touting that?
I don't see how out-dueling a third string QB with ample help from defense and special teams proves your point that a team will trade for Weeden?
But, fair enough, agree to disagree.
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#Jaguars agreed to terms with RB Toby Gerhart. https://twitter.com/ryanohalloran
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 5 Possible QB/RB Browns Free Agent
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