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And where is all this talk about Ward not wanting to be here coming from? Is there an article w/quotes from Ward about it? Or, is it just an excuse for the Browns paying more money to another player?
Cant speak for anyone else, but for me it the FO saying they have been talking to Ward's camp since the pro bowl and it seems to me that Ward jumped awful; fast, especially for $5.5 mil, while that is not proof positive it seems indicative of someone who wants to,go elsewhere, for what ever reason. Nothing against him he has do what he thinks is best for himself
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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And where is all this talk about Ward not wanting to be here coming from? Is there an article w/quotes from Ward about it? Or, is it just an excuse for the Browns paying more money to another player?
Cant speak for anyone else, but for me it the FO saying they have been talking to Ward's camp since the pro bowl and it seems to me that Ward jumped awful; fast, especially for $5.5 mil, while that is not proof positive it seems indicative of someone who wants to go elsewhere, for what ever reason. Nothing against him he has do what he thinks is best for himself
Defending AFC champions with future Hall of Fame QB in place and willing to spend in Free Agency on defense to give a great chance at repeating in the Super Bowl for 5.5 million, or Cleveland for 7 million?
No brainer goto Denver. If I weren't a Browns fan I'd do exactly the same thing.
In fact I used to be a video game developer. I got offered a job that paid me 25% less but it was in Los Angeles vs Maryland and was an award winning company.
I currently live in Los Angeles.
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Actually, I think it means that the Browns paid more money to another player and he took what he could get.
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Wait a minute..............did Ward sign w/Denver BEFORE we signed Whitner?
I could have sworn we signed Whitner first????????????
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We signed Whitner, then Ward signed with Denver. There were reports that Ward was looking for upwards of $8 million/season from the Browns. Before anyone asks ...... Google it. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Wait a minute..............did Ward sign w/Denver BEFORE we signed Whitner?
I could have sworn we signed Whitner first????????????
straight football talk. i fail to see your point about who signed first. they were both official day one signings.
on top of that, teams were contacting players before then...but think about it: you're trying to say Whitner was signed before Ward, but if teams were talking to them prior to the official day, that means denver would've called too, correct?
so i'm going to ask you this again since you ignored it last time. if whitner is so much better than ward, why did the SB team choose Ward over Whitner?
Last edited by Swish; 03/13/14 06:54 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Perhaps because Whit signed w/the Browns?
Let me ask you this? Why did the Browns sign Whit BEFORE Ward signed w/another team? Why would they even have contract talks w/Whit if they thought Ward was better?
Show me one freaking article that quotes Ward saying he wanted out. Show me one freaking article w/quotes from the Browns FO saying that Ward wanted out.
I'll be waiting while you guys pontificate and fabricate.
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I'll be waiting while you guys pontificate and fabricate.
Toss bloviate in there and you've hit the Bill O'Reilly trifecta.
#GMSTRONG
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I always appreciate your humor, Tulsa. 
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Perhaps because Whit signed w/the Browns?
Let me ask you this? Why did the Browns sign Whit BEFORE Ward signed w/another team? Why would they even have contract talks w/Whit if they thought Ward was better?
Show me one freaking article that quotes Ward saying he wanted out. Show me one freaking article w/quotes from the Browns FO saying that Ward wanted out.
I'll be waiting while you guys pontificate and fabricate.
everything is speculation. you speculate, i speculate, others speculate. stop acting like we are making up things.
if the browns were in talk with Ward, that means there was an offer on the table most likely, yes? it Ward didn't like that contract, then he was most likely going to want out and get paid more.
or maybe Ward didn't fit the scheme. there's so many speculations, educated ones at that. why do you have such a problem with that?
and once again, its all relative. you keep saying we paid whitner more money....and once again i make this point:
whitner is coming from a team that went to back to back to back NFC championship games.
Ward is coming from a team that has been 4-12, 5-11 since he been a brown.
yet Denver decided to have contract talks with Ward before the official FA day over Whitner.
why?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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I answered your earlier question. You have not answered mine. Yet, you now ask me another question and expect an answer? LOL.........
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....or maybe Ward DID want to come back, but took the Denver deal on the table as soon as he saw us sign Whit? Maybe he was both team'S 2nd option, maybe he was DEN 1st, maybe we were his 1st or 2nd
This "logic" cuts in any direction, regardless of the "unfolding" of events, anything else is "make believe" narrative/rhetoric (rather poor one at that, if I may add)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I answered your earlier question. You have not answered mine. Yet, you now ask me another question and expect an answer? LOL.........
huh? i answered your question. maybe ward didn't fit pettine's scheme, or they already knew that ward didn't like the offer on the table, so they pursued another Safety.
right there in the post i responded to you in.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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....or maybe Ward DID want to come back, but took the Denver deal on the table as soon as he saw us sign Whit? Maybe he was both team'S 2nd option, maybe he was DEN 1st, maybe we were his 1st or 2nd
This "logic" cuts in any direction, regardless of the "unfolding" of events, anything else is "make believe" narrative/rhetoric
thats a very good point.
look, i have no problem with Whitner, i'm super happy he's here. he grew up in cleveland and so did i. most likely he's bring the pain.
but some are acting like whitner is heads and shoulders above ward.
yet the SB team choose a safety from a 4-12 squad over a safety from a NFC championship game squad.
thats all i'm wondering. why is that?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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I am asking for quotes from Ward or the FO saying he wanted to leave Cleveland for a contender. Because I sure as heck remember you going off a few days ago about how much Ward wanted to be here and Mack didn't and you were upset that the Browns were paying more attention to Mack.
Show me quotes saying that Ward wanted out. I can show you quotes saying that Ward wanted to stay. Until that time, you guys need to stop stating that Ward wanted out as if it is a factual matter.
IT IS NOT!!!!
And you cannot deny that the Browns were obviously interested in Whitner over Ward.
You are just mad because you were wrong again, just like you were about TRich. It's cool to be wrong, but some of you simply aren't secure enough to admit it.
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I am asking for quotes from Ward or the FO saying he wanted to leave Cleveland for a contender. Because I sure as heck remember you going off a few days ago about how much Ward wanted to be here and Mack didn't and you were upset that the Browns were paying more attention to Mack.
Show me quotes saying that Ward wanted out. I can show you quotes saying that Ward wanted to stay. Until that time, you guys need to stop stating that Ward wanted out as if it is a factual matter.
IT IS NOT!!!!
And you cannot deny that the Browns were obviously interested in Whitner over Ward.
You are just mad because you were wrong again, just like you were about TRich. It's cool to be wrong, but some of you simply aren't secure enough to admit it.
bro i just said that ward possibly didn't fit the scheme of pettine. thats an admittance. jesus man..what the hell is your problem.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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Who is acting like Whitner is head and shoulders above Ward? I clearly stated that they are very similar players. I graded them on different categories.
I think that Whit is a better overall safety.
No one is saying he is way better than Ward. Neither of them are Chacellor or Berry.
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Vers, you were all over the boards saying that Ward is overrated. He's gone now. So why does it matter? I mean, I get your need for debate. But, the horse is dead and has been beaten. You made your feelings known about the guy and I agreed to some degree on your assessment. Let's not make every thread a personal battle. Not directing that to just you personally. Just about every thread becomes something like this between you and Swish. I come to these boards for news and Browns stuff, not bickering..... 
#gmstrong.
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Why is this to me?
I gave my opinion on Ward and Whitner. Do I have to agree w/everyone?
After I gave my opinion, Swish started in on me. I responded to his post.
It is not against board rules to post an opposing opinion. Now, go back and look to see if Swish posted to me first or if I questioned him first.
So again, why direct it towards me?
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I think the answer lays strictly on which S fits your scheme the best.
We both agree that Whitner is better in coverage. From everything I've seen that's what Pettine values very highly in a S.
If you want a S as a run stuffer, I believe TJ has the edge in that department. How much value you place on any given player to me is predicated as to what that player brings to the table as it pertains to what you need at the position.
So I think the entire "He's better or TJ wasn't that good" is all centered around what they bring to the table on those respective teams. I believe that Whitner is the more well balanced S, but to me, that's more along the lines of what this coaching staff was looking for.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So again, why direct it towards me?
Please be so kind as to go back and re-read my post. First, I said that I was not directing this to just you personally. Second, I said that for the most part, I agreed with your assessment of Ward. I appreciate the fact that everyone is entitled to their opinion. The thing I don't get is that you said you didn't think Ward is worth it and now you're debating Ward's worth over that of Whitner. It's no wonder I don't respond to you often. I never know what side of the fence you actually sit on.
#gmstrong.
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That is a reasonable response. Nicely done.
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I never know what side of the fence you actually sit on.
LOL..............I have to admit that in all the years I have been posting on the boards, that is the first time anyone has ever said that to me.
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I never know what side of the fence you actually sit on.
LOL..............I have to admit that in all the years I have been posting on the boards, that is the first time anyone has ever said that to me.
Sorry, homie! I didn't mean any disrespect. I respect your opinion on a lot of things. It just gets exhausting going through the threads sometimes to get some info. Much love, fellow dawg! Here's to the turnaround that we've all been waiting on since our dads told us about the "old days."
#gmstrong.
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It wasn't disrespectful, bro. It's just that most people think my opinion is too strong rather than fence sitting. LOL................it's all good.
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Jk....I've mulled on this a couple of days, and I think we got somewhat better with Whit/Dansby over Ward/DQ...mainly in coverage as others have mentioned. I don't see the huge improvement that others (and in the media) have clamored about. We replaced two guys that we're solid with two solid guys that fit what we want to do better. Improvement? Yeah somewhat, but as it stands now we haven't added a significant upgrade to what we had last year.....and I love Whit and Karlos.
I'm not against cutting DQ, but I would argue if the Browns were in "win now" mode that some in the media are suggesting, they would have kept DQ AND added Dansby....same with Ward and Whit. So far we have just replaced solid players with better fitting solid players. To be honest I'm a little underwhelmed by what we done and thought we improved the team a lot more in early FA last year.
Still a long way to go, but this team would still be a 4-12/5-11 squad.... Colored me underwhelmed so far.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Decent post, but no way could we have kept Ward and signed Whitner. Again, they are similar players who play the run much better than they defend the pass. Neither are capable of playing FS.
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True. I guess my point was we really haven't addressed any of the weak spots on the roster from last year as of yet, and I certainly don't see this as "win now" mode. I sill see needs at QB, RB, WR2, OG, iLB, FS, and probably need another CB....and we had those same needs March 11th. We aren't going to get quality players at all of those positions in the draft......will be lucky to get 5 contributors next year even with the extra picks. Love them or hate them, Banner and Lombo went into FA with the plan to improve the DL and pass rush, and they did in a hurry.
I guess I'm just wondering what the plan is, but as I said still a long way to go.
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So with that the question becomes...
...was two more season at Whitner's peak worth it over 4-5 of Ward's who should have more upside left?
Another question to ask is, did Farmer even have a say in the matter? I think Ward was as happy to get away from here as I believe DQ was. They both got some good money and left behind the 4 and 5 win seasons and all the coaching changes that came with it.
It seems to me that Mack is looking forward to finding a way out as well.
How many of us would want to stick to the kind of uncertainty these guys have been going through? Obviously they are good players. Good players who could see the career they've spent a lifetime dreaming of and working for be wasted by an organization who acts and reacts like they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
I've always thought it a pity when good players have lackluster careers because they were stuck on bad teams.
So maybe Farmer was not the one doing the choosing regarding Ward, or even DQ for that matter although the case has been made that DQ doesn't fit the scheme. Still, with this team the regimes and schemes are like the Ohio weather, if you don't like it stick around, it'll change sooner rather than later.
And along those lines it makes me wonder how many players would love a chance to escape this merry-go-round? I'm not an NFL player and don't really know the thought process that these guys go through. But I'm fairly certain that if I were a player with a dream of having a good career I would be running away from here like my ass was on fire if not for a contract locking me down.
Pettine has his work cut out for him in changing the culture around here. He seems up for it. I hope so.
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Ahhh..............I get it, now.
Yeah, the plan doesn't seem all that sound at this point.
We're replacing guys we are losing, but not really upgrading positions of need. I get what you are saying.
Wonder if we will be able to fill all of our needs in the draft?
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jc...
Just watched the presser. Whitner was impressive. If he can bring that type of leadership to the field, it may be worth Ward leaving. I particularly liked the part about learning to win in SF.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Yeah, we talked during the season about players not being mentally tough when it counted. I believe Ward was one of those players.
We needed to change the mindset of the team. Hopefully, this move will help.
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Wonder if we will be able to fill all of our needs in the draft?
What positions do you see needing upgraded? I think we need QB, RB, RG, WR2, ILB and possibly CB3. That's quite a bit.
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Let me ask you this? Why did the Browns sign Whit BEFORE Ward signed w/another team? Why would they even have contract talks w/Whit if they thought Ward was better?
To the first question I think it may be that they wanted Whit over Ward because Whit's a more well-rounded player, more to Pettine's liking as he fits the system better.
To the second question it could be because they felt they were in a stalemate and getting nowhere in negotiations with Ward. They may have concluded he may not want to be here regardless of him saying all the right things as he's quoted and just couldn't wait around to take care of that position, missing the boat so to speak, if he signed elsewhere.
Like I said in my post above, I don't think the decision was entirely Farmer's to make. Ward wasn't going to sit around waiting for Farmer to cave in and Farmer wasn't going to sit around waiting for Ward, (and his agent), to soften in the negotiations.
Personally, I think we got the better end of the deal.
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I have no real way of definitively proving it ..... but it seems like both Whitner and Dansby bring heavy duty leadership to the team. Whitner went through a turn around in San Francisco, arriving in 2011, and with the team coming off a 6-10 season in 2010. (and 8 consecutive seasons without a winning record) He saw how a team turns around, and the mindset it takes.
This is what the team needs ...... a guy who has been part of a turnaround, and knows that it can happen, and what it takes. Whitner can talk to other guys about how the Niners were able to go from almost a decade of futility, to 3 straight NFC Championship games. Further, he is a Pro Bowl player, and came here because it's his home, and this team and city are important to him. People talk about ambassadors for the team, but I cannot think of a better ambassador than that. This matters to Whitner, and I think that he will be a very strong influence, and leader on this team.
Dansby also was part of a turnaround last year in Arizona. The Cards weren't down as long as the Niners were, but they had been through a rough patch, and they found themselves suddenly in a very strong division. They won 10 games anyway. Dansby was a big part of that. He, also, can talk to guys about what it takes to turn a team's fortunes around.
I think that the players ability played the biggest part in the decision to sign them, but the leadership and experience probably played a solid part in the decision as well.
JMHO
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Last edited by pblack18707; 03/14/14 05:37 AM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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I don't know what announcer that is. But to say Ward had "no chance" on that play is hilarious...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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This is what the team needs ...... a guy who has been part of a turnaround, and knows that it can happen, and what it takes. Whitner can talk to other guys about how the Niners were able to go from almost a decade of futility, to 3 straight NFC Championship games. Further, he is a Pro Bowl player, and came here because it's his home, and this team and city are important to him. People talk about ambassadors for the team, but I cannot think of a better ambassador than that. This matters to Whitner, and I think that he will be a very strong influence, and leader on this team.
Dansby also was part of a turnaround last year in Arizona. The Cards weren't down as long as the Niners were, but they had been through a rough patch, and they found themselves suddenly in a very strong division. They won 10 games anyway. Dansby was a big part of that. He, also, can talk to guys about what it takes to turn a team's fortunes around.
Well said and SPOT-ON.
I've kept thy mouth shut because of the love many fans have for Jackson. Truth is he's SOFT and PASSIVE.
I've been saying it for years. The day the Browns get rid of Jackson and replace him with some ATTITUDE is the day the Browns defense will get into the top 5 in rushing defense.
It starts NOW, and the addition of Moats is going to help even more. Yes folks, I do believe it's coming. SOON.
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Whitner cost Browns a lot more than Ward cost Broncos Posted by Mike Florio on March 14, 2014, 8:48 AM EDT The two biggest acquisitions made to date by the Cleveland Browns amount to an even-Steven swapping out of a safety and a linebacker for a safety and a linebacker. And they paid plenty for the safety and the linebacker they signed, especially in comparison to the safety and linebacker they had. In both cases, the Browns selected an older and more expensive option. At safety, the Browns gave $13 million in fully-guaranteed money to Donte Whitner as part of a four-year, $28 million deal. T.J. Ward, in contrast, signed for only $7 million fully guaranteed at signing, with another $6.5 million guaranteed for injury only until the 2015 league year. The total value of Ward’s four-year deal is $22.5 million — $5.5 million less than Whitner’s contract. At linebacker, the Browns dumped D’Qwell Jackson’s contract, which would have paid him $6.6 million in 2014. They’re instead paying Karlos Dansby $10 million in 2014, part of a $12 million fully-guaranteed contract. The 32-year-old’s deal averages $6 million per season through 2017. While it was prudent for the cap-rich Browns to resist the temptation of going on a Day One overspending spree, some would say they’ve opted to dog-paddle by swapping Ward and Jackson for Whitner and Dansby. The goal moving forward should be to do something other than mildly upgrade positions of strength, and to instead shop for bargains at positions of need.
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Hitner also provides a better well-rounded option than TJ. The ONLY benefit I'd see of having Ward is his ability to thrown up into the box and be effective. Hitner will also be able to do that and likely not miss much of a beat.
He'll also be able to shadow defenders better in pass coverage which is what we need the most IMO. Teams had issues running against our front seven and finding daylight/holes to hit. For once, the worry of teams running down our throats isn't my biggest concern. Teams virtually was able to pass the ball at-will on us.
Plus it's obvious Broncos have more leverage cause they were in the SB. People will take less to have a chance at a ring.
All JMO
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign Donte Whitner
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