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First off Djang. I apologize for throwing you in with Vers.
Let me guess...........I started another bickering session? 
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Why wouldn't we prefer Edelman over Hawkins?
well, we already have Hawkins signed for one. he's more explosive as another. Edelman has the one big year to his advantage and (as such) will likely cost more $$.
Time out....he has signed his tender. It doesn't turn in to a official contract until Cincy doesn't match. As I read it now, that will be on the 18th. Maybe now we don't go after Edleman,he gets signed, then Cincy matches at the 12th hour....then we get duped, and they hurt a division rival.
???
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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No Man, you didn't start nothing. I was just having some fun with Djang cause I know you too like to mix it up once in awhile. No offense, just playing a little 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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Why wouldn't we prefer Edelman over Hawkins?
well, we already have Hawkins signed for one. he's more explosive as another. Edelman has the one big year to his advantage and (as such) will likely cost more $$.
Time out....he has signed his tender. It doesn't turn in to a official contract until Cincy doesn't match. As I read it now, that will be on the 18th. Maybe now we don't go after Edleman,he gets signed, then Cincy matches at the 12th hour....then we get duped, and they hurt a division rival.
???
yes, it is all gamesmanship at this point. Cinci either wants someone else to sign Edelman (if they are going to match) or want us to sign Edelman (if they are not going to match).
we are sort of stuck because if we wait, then we may miss out, but if we strike, we may have redundant skillsets on hand. given our cap situation, I wouldn't mind the depth.
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Based on our crappy FA signings so far, does anyone think we are already tanking this year to get the #1 pick in the 2015 draft?
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...and it's why it was such an amateurish rookie GM outsmart mistake. Farmer took himself out of the running for Tate and Edelman, unless they're willing to wait (good luck with that). He had all time in the world to get into a  with the Bengals
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I am not thrilled w/all the signings, but your claim is ridiculous. Whitner and Dansby were good signings. Hawkins was overpaid, but he may help us.
Tanking the season? That's just stupid.
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...and it's why it was such an amateurish rookie GM outsmart mistake. Farmer took himself out of the running for Tate and Edelman, unless they're willing to wait (good luck with that).
He had all time in the world to get into a with the Bengals
if he wanted Golden Tate, then he should have pursued him first.
I don't mind getting Hawkins the way he did, but if he wants Edelman, then he sure should still sign him. we need the depth desperately (right now it's Gordon, maybe Hawkins, and noone unless you believe Pettine about Little).
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I disagree.
Neither can play outside. That's a huge problem when you gameplan for sundays, lol That's actually proving my point going for Tate, as he can play both. Tate + one fo them = yes. Hawkins+Edelman = no
You simply do not need two slot WR. That's why Cooper was on PS until Bess freaked out.
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Based on our crappy FA signings so far, does anyone think we are already tanking this year to get the #1 pick in the 2015 draft?
What?
I try to show respect to new posters, but that was a weak comment.
You need to be stronger than that.
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You simply do not need two slot WR.
The Patriots had like ten of them last year. They also had Tom Brady.
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I disagree.
Neither can play outside. That's a huge problem when you gameplan for sundays, lol That's actually proving my point going for Tate, as he can play both. Tate + one fo them = yes. Hawkins+Edelman = no
You simply do not need two slot WR. That's why Cooper was on PS until Bess freaked out.
well, NE put Edelman outside last year quite a bit and Hawkins can be used on the outside like we used Benjamin (hey, go deep), but I get your overall point. I would still want a WR in the 1st round.
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Why wouldn't we prefer Edelman over Hawkins?
well, we already have Hawkins signed for one. he's more explosive as another. Edelman has the one big year to his advantage and (as such) will likely cost more $$.
Time out....he has signed his tender. It doesn't turn in to a official contract until Cincy doesn't match. As I read it now, that will be on the 18th. Maybe now we don't go after Edleman,he gets signed, then Cincy matches at the 12th hour....then we get duped, and they hurt a division rival.
???
In a way, Hawkin's offer sheet is a contract .... we just don't yet know for sure for which team.
If the situation were reversed, I would do all I could to make the other team guess about whether or not I was going to match the deal .... just to keep them running in circles, and maybe even get them to waste resources duplicating the player they signed from my team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He broke some ankles in that video. lol
Davone Bess's ONLY good play of the entire last season just flashed before my eyes. I believe the exact words of the announcer were "HE BROKE THE ANKLES OF WEBB!"
Last edited by Dawg_LB; 03/13/14 07:12 PM.
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He broke some ankles in that video. lol
Davone Bess's ONLY good play of the entire last season just flashed before my eyes. I believe the exact words of the announcer was "HE BROKEN THE ANKLES OF WEBB!"
Webb's jock strap is still on the field as we speak.
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Mega shake and bake... Hawkins seems to be able to do that consistently. That practice video is/was awesome.
Everyone should watch it. Not saying base the money he "could" be getting and his on-field ability on it, but you can't fake them moves! Even with game study, that change of direction and then burst would pose issues to most corners on single coverage... JMO
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You simply do not need two slot WR.
The Patriots had like ten of them last year. They also had Tom Brady.
..and they also had a WR problem because of it. They desperately tried greenhorns outside, even an UDFA rook iirc. It was their biggest problem last season, ask a Boston fan, he'll tell you about it, lol
I forgot about James Jones, he's still out there...him + one of the slot guys would change things considerably.
J.Jones
Edelman
T.Brown
Kuhn or Collins at FB
S.Smith at RG
It's still do-able, but clock is ticking
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And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
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Why wouldn't we prefer Edelman over Hawkins?
well, we already have Hawkins signed for one. he's more explosive as another. Edelman has the one big year to his advantage and (as such) will likely cost more $$.
Time out....he has signed his tender. It doesn't turn in to a official contract until Cincy doesn't match. As I read it now, that will be on the 18th. Maybe now we don't go after Edleman,he gets signed, then Cincy matches at the 12th hour....then we get duped, and they hurt a division rival.
???
In a way, Hawkin's offer sheet is a contract .... we just don't yet know for sure for which team.
If the situation were reversed, I would do all I could to make the other team guess about whether or not I was going to match the deal .... just to keep them running in circles, and maybe even get them to waste resources duplicating the player they signed from my team.
I agree....except the latest reports are we are "hot" after Edleman. Why not make us sign two slots or end up with none?
I am fully aware it is a official contract, except for the fact that we don't know for who......thus my comment..
Understand?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Why wouldn't we prefer Edelman over Hawkins?
well, we already have Hawkins signed for one. he's more explosive as another. Edelman has the one big year to his advantage and (as such) will likely cost more $$.
Time out....he has signed his tender. It doesn't turn in to a official contract until Cincy doesn't match. As I read it now, that will be on the 18th. Maybe now we don't go after Edleman,he gets signed, then Cincy matches at the 12th hour....then we get duped, and they hurt a division rival.
???
In a way, Hawkin's offer sheet is a contract .... we just don't yet know for sure for which team.
If the situation were reversed, I would do all I could to make the other team guess about whether or not I was going to match the deal .... just to keep them running in circles, and maybe even get them to waste resources duplicating the player they signed from my team.
I agree....except the latest reports are we are "hot" after Edleman. Why not make us sign two slots or end up with none?
I am fully aware it is a official contract, except for the fact that we don't know for who......thus my comment..
Understand?
I get it. I'm just saying that if I were the Bengals, that's exactly the situation I'd try to force a division rival who signed one of my players into. I would play it s that no one is sure if I am going to sign his tender, or not. If they play their cards just close enough to the vest, then the Browns could wind up with no slot guy ....... or 2 of them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c:
--It seems like we gave him too much money. Why not offer that money to a guard or RT?
Agree 100%.. then again it took $17 mil for Lava.. what is $12 going to get ya... Seriously my only real concern so far... we need OL help and haven't seen our name connected with anybody... yet.
I suspect that we're targeting Richburg in the 3rd. I'd love to have him.
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I agree w/you that we do not want to sign two FA slot receivers.
The contract also seems too generous.
The guy does look exciting. Hopefully, he will blossom in Cleveland.
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I can say the kid is electric. I lived in the Cinci viewing area for his entire career. There was simply so much depth at WR on that team, that the kid didn't get nearly enough playing time. When he did, he was sure handed, ran solid routes and made the most of his opportunities. My brother is much younger than I and grew up in that area. He is a die hard Bengal fan. (Yes they actually have a few of those)  He's very upset and disappointed at the possibility of losing Hawkins and I don't blame him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I am not thrilled w/all the signings, but your claim is ridiculous. Whitner and Dansby were good signings. Hawkins was overpaid, but he may help us.
Tanking the season? That's just stupid.
I thought we tanked last year when we traded TRich.
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Thanks. He does look exciting.
It's just that his production doesn't seem to match his contract.
I am not really complaining, but it seems that we overpaid for him.
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He does look impressive in that vid, but a) it's practice b) no press c) he looks like a injury waiting to happen with that size/speed combo He's a frail and fast slot guy. He goes over the middle a lot and will get hit a lot from LBs and S. I don't see him hold up for a whole season and he did not the past 2. That's a pattern I know he only got 4-5mil in guarantees, but the way it is strucutured, it's basically a 2year 10.8 deal as long as he's on the roster, which is very probable After that, he can be cut at the age of 30, so the risk of losing speed or injury was well aware when they did this deal. They valued him at 5+mil per in his first two seasons, that's what I see and I don't like the deal. We could have gotten better players for that money. Hell, he makes Karlos Dansby and TJ Ward money the next two years
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Sometimes you have to take a gamble.
If he ends up staying healthy, he'll be our best FA pick up, IMO.
Farmer is rolling the dice on this one, but it could pay off big.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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If you ever listen to Mike Shanahan talk about how his scheme has one basic purpose and that is to tire the defense by making defenders run and work and run and work. Hawkins fits that philosophy. The zone scheme is not designed to create big runs, its designed to make defenders run wide, get cut, get up and chase again. Hawkins is gonna make you miss and make you miss again lol
I feel Hawkins was a very good fit for this scheme and should benefit tremendously from having guys like Little and Gordon who love to block. Run after catch will be even better with the Browns simply because better blocking receivers.
The Browns imho signed the receiver version of Johny Football. Who knows, we may have both starting for the Browns this fall lol.
oo and those naked bootlegs Shanahan loves with the D following the OL, ahhh yea makes ya think lol
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I can say the kid is electric. I lived in the Cinci viewing area for his entire career. There was simply so much depth at WR on that team, that the kid didn't get nearly enough playing time. When he did, he was sure handed, ran solid routes and made the most of his opportunities.
My brother is much younger than I and grew up in that area. He is a die hard Bengal fan. (Yes they actually have a few of those)
He's very upset and disappointed at the possibility of losing Hawkins and I don't blame him.
I still live in Cincy, and am surrounded on all sides by Bengal Fanatics both at home and at work.
To a man they are all pissed about even the possibility that Hawkins gets away.
Not saying he's who or what We need, but the fact is they are pissed that he's possibly gone from here speaks a bunch to me.
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Video: Mary Kay Cabot on Andrew Hawkins signing offer sheet with Browns By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on March 14, 2014 at 6:53 AM, updated March 14, 2014 at 6:58 AM CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In this video, The Plain Dealer's Mary Kay Cabot talks to CineSport's Chad Cutler about Andrew Hawkins' offer sheet, the Browns' starting quarterback at the moment and Cleveland's free agent additions on defense. Hawkins, a wide receiver with the Bengals, signed his four-year offer sheet with the Browns on Wednesday and it was submitted on Thursday. The Bengals now have five days -- until Tuesday -- to match. The offer is worth $13.6 million overall, including a $3.8 million signing bonus and $10.8 million over the first two years, the source confirmed. Ian Rapoport of NFL Network first reported the exact terms of the deal and the fact it's been signed, and NFL Network's Albert Breer reports the Bengals are now unlikely to match because the deal is front loaded. But Geoff Hobson, senior writer for the Bengals.com, said the Bengals are discussing whether or not to match and that it could go either way. web page Click the link to view the video..
Last edited by mac; 03/14/14 07:12 AM.
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Might see it wrong, but tying up the other guys' cap money while everyone is maneuvering for free agents manipulates them as long as they take to decide. This is a solid move that jerks Cincy around a bit as I see it. If they match it hurts the somewhat, and if it flies, we get more time with other players. I wouldn't call this crappy. I like the Day the First signings.  
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Rookie GM mistake. ??? 1. because of the bulk of the contract is paid out - they won't play hard anymore. Can I assume you never played the game Django...there is a rush they get. Pride to win...those who play solely for the money don't stay long in the NFL. A big part of it is being part of a team and achieving success TOGETHER as a team. No insult on the never played thing...just hard to explain the RUSH.
2. We are bidding on a RFA that we want...you almost never get that done just like the Transition tag on Mack...fat chance he signs something we won't match.
He put in a poison pill sort of. All were ok with the totals just now its revealed the 1st two seasons. which that makes it likely the Bengals dont match. I find it odd you see that as a mistake.
as for 2 years from now we will gain more Cap room space...we weren't going to use it all up in 2014 n 2015 and yet we had to use a pct. We got to keep our young successes here and in two years make one or two key moves to win the SB
jmho
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My gut says this is going to be one of the signings a year from now, we are just like, why?
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How many 31/32yo slot WR do you know that are any good? See...
It's a young man's position and Hawkins will be lucky to make it into those seasons without an injury that finishes his career off.
He won't be a factor in those two seasons anyway is what I'm saying, no matter if we cut him or keep him. The "real" deal here is 2years, 10.8 mil...I'd rather have one of the ex-KC OG signed for that money (or G.Tate for slightly more) than some slot-WR hopeful with injury problems
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How many 31/32yo slot WR do you know that are any good? See...
It's a young man's position and Hawkins will be lucky to make it into those seasons without an injury that finishes his career off.
He won't be a factor in those two seasons anyway is what I'm saying, no matter if we cut him or keep him. The "real" deal here is 2years, 10.8 mil...I'd rather have one of the ex-KC OG signed for that money (or G.Tate for slightly more) than some slot-WR hopeful with injury problems
Top five slot receivers:
1. Percy Harvin (Age 25)
2. Randall Cobb (Age 23)
3. Wes Welker (Age 32)
4. Victor Cruz (Age 27)
5. Danny Amendola (Age 28)
Andrew Hawkins, age 28, seems to fit within the mean. Hawkins wasn't overused, so he'll have a little more shelf life. Receivers are not like running backs some play well into their 30's.
I wish I remembered where I read, but it takes longer to develop slot receivers. Most guys do not like playing the slot position. This also means teams need to invest more time before they decide a player can cut it. In Hawkins case, Cincy done the dirty work. Drafting a potential slot, see Little and Benjamin, may take two or three years before you might see fruit.
I think Little struggles with the idea he makes a better slot then a split or flanker. He needs to come to grips first downs are just as important as TD's.
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If we don't take a single receiver in the draft, and this is our only WR signing in FA then by all means.... worry.
I have this sneaking suspicion though that we might pull a Cincinnati and draft Sammy Watkins at #4 and take our QB(Derek Carr)at #26. (Green and Dalton)
Could be wrong, often am... but Watkins is posting pics of himself in a Browns uniform on Twitter already. We shall see. If Watkins is the choice, or if we take a receiver at #26 then why worry about Golden Tate? This draft is rife with wide receiver talent.
If we do get Hawkins and he doesn't produce, it's not going to kill us. Every GM makes mistakes. Especially in free agency. I'll wait and see what kind of draft we have and how this team plays next season before rushing to judgement about our new GM and HC.
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rookie GM mistake...that is more than one time you have said it. I know you actually think you are a great GM...lol  but come on man. Hawkins was a great move you are spinning it as a mistake. We got the money to burn - this year and next - it will free us up money the last two season.
If the Bengals sign him on the last hour they played us??? How so - they just spent 10 mil in 2 seasons for their #4 WR - they would be classed as idiots - but they tooled us...lol
Yes, Tate was the best slot WR on the market. He went to Detroit signed pretty quick - Ya think we didn't put a call in. The agent probably said "Sorry, my client doesn't have yo on his list." Ya think.
This ain't madden where you can click your GM button any time you want and it happens. You need two to tango.
I like who we got and if we want to put Little and Cameron inside in Twins Gordon and Hawkins outside - it would work. And we got Benjamin to play around with also. We have done exactly what FA is suppose to do. Take the URGENT NEED out of the draft for the WR unit. We have no urgent need. We add a WR its cause he is BPA on our board!
I do agree the only position we lost and have a hole that we did not fill was RG...possibly that stop gap to eliminate URGENT NEED might be Pinkston who did play some RG when Lava got hurt at the end of the season.
I do see a high pick 1-35 being spent on an OG.
RT....not a need to fill in FA. I don't see and upgrade at RT - possibly Veldheer but he wanted to play LT not RT. two to tango there.
Rookie GM...as opposed to what - YOU???
come on man...get over your GM prowess stuff. You're a dawg like the rest of us
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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If the Bengals sign him on the last hour they played us??? How so - they just spent 10 mil in 2 seasons for their #4 WR - they would be classed as idiots - but they tooled us...lol
I never said that...mind to quote? I also don't mind Hawkins the player, although I think he's severly overpaid. I just question going after him BUT NOT others too.
And yes, I think it's bad management so far at display in FA and no, I'm not a GM and I can still have that opinion, go figure. "Who are you? Do you work in the NFL?" has always been the lamest of all message board "arguments"...especially for a perennial 4-5win team. I think you can do better than that if you disagree, no?
Two to tango? I say "money to sign". Your argument is inconsistent and hypothetical at best, because Whitner and Dansby shouldn't have signed either then. What is it? They wanted to tango? or did they see the good money on the table?
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign WR Andrew Hawkins
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