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I don't pay attention to the pill abuse world - but I do know at one time, likely still current, that Oxy was thee most hardcore. It's no joke.
I think I'd venture to endure the pain too as opposed to taking it.
Never say never. The universe has a way of proving you wrong .... sometimes, I think, just out of spite.  lol (kinda)
I never thought that I would take the type of medication I'm on now. I used to use Aspirin, and that was about it, for any and all pain. I came out of surgeries in the past with a script for moderate pain meds,(like Vicodin and such) and wouldn't even bother filling them.
Now I'm on heavier stuff, because the pain in my back has reached such a point that I just can't take it anymore. There are many days where I wouldn't be able to get up and walk if I didn't have something for the pain.
The stuff I'm on makes me uncomfortable, fuzzy and slow. What I don't get is why anyone would choose to make themselves feel like this by choice. There is no pleasure to the pain meds I'm on. Constipation is also a major, heavy duty side effect.I cannot imagine that there are people who think that this is a good time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Then I found that a Steelers head coach wandering into the field of play and disrupting an opponent's kickoff return does not result in the loss of a draft pick, so now I am sure that this won't cost the Colts.
Fixed it.
#gmstrong
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The stuff I'm on makes me uncomfortable, fuzzy and slow.
We noticed. 
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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The stuff I'm on makes me uncomfortable, fuzzy and slow.
We noticed.
No more than I do.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yes... I read your post over in the general chat. I know so many people who've encountered side effects with their script medications. It just makes me want to avoid them even more. It really a matter of outweighing the risk and the rewards whether to take them or not. Thankfully in my case, my shoulder or back may hurt only for a day. Worst case scenario, I take a low-level muscle relaxer and then live with a dulled pain or mostly it takes the pain away completely and without the side effects of depression, groggy'ness, etc etc etc. Now your case with extreme pain that is consistent, man not to sound homo or anything but I do feel for ya man.
As I've said many times, this crap ain't no joke. I would agree also to the fact that the pill abuse is far more a threat than marijuana use now. People think these dr's are doing a favor by prescribing a heavy script for something that doesn't even require such extreme medication, that too is another issue.
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I didn't know marijuana use was even a threat, but, uh, okay.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Well it's a part of the "war on drugs", considering the push we take to destroy crops, monitor pot farms and etc, it's clear whoever believes them to be more a threat cause I just don't hear about the mega pill bust and etc. I hear all the time about the big pot bust.
Even on the global news sites, I hear about the big marijuana busts. Still even afters it's been state deemed legal in some circumstances. The only times pills make the news is when some celebrity OD's on them...
All JMO of course.
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j/c
Drugs are a problem, no doubt. All drugs, in my opinion.
I have a friend that's a doctor in the heart of W.V. You might be surprised at what he's been offered for a prescription.
He also says - in his area (a very poor area) about half the adult citizens are on prescription drugs - and many of them are on the public dole.
Prescription drugs are just as bad as any street drug - from what I know.
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All Pro
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Getting out of control ?. Where you been brother ?
Good call I understated the problem for sure!
This is from the CDC:
•In 2010, of the 38,329 drug overdose deaths in the United States, 22,134 (60%) were related to pharmaceuticals.
•In 2011, about 1.4 million ED visits involved the nonmedical use of pharmaceuticals. Among those ED visits, 501,207 visits were related to anti-anxiety and insomnia medications, and 420,040 visits were related to opioid analgesics
•In the United States, prescription opioid abuse costs were about $55.7 billion in 2007.
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I will catch hell for this but who cares, The guy has problems just like the rest of us.
I certainly don't care. The idiot was weak and allowed himself to get hooked on drugs. I have no sympathy for people like that. If a person destroys their own life based on decisions they control, I don't care about them nor feel any sympathy. If he doesn't care enough about his body or life, why should I?
LOL I guess you don't know much about addiction. Why can some people drink once in a while and that's fine but others try drinking and get addicted right away? A lot of it has to do with genetics. Your saying the guy who experiments with booze in high school and quits drinking in his late 20's is better than the guy who starts drinking and high School and gets addicted. Thats total bullcrap IMO.
I know plenty about addiction. It's all mental. Anyone who has a drink can stop after after one. If they continue and become an alcoholic, it's beacuse they chose to not stop and let their urges take control. Self-restraint and discipline is within our control. If somebody allows themselves to become addicted to a drug, it's their fault and they have nobody else to blame. Also, everybody could be smart in the first place and just not consume the toxins and open themselves up to being weak-minded and becoming addicted. If you never drink, you'll never become an alcoholic. If you drink and become an addict, you're weak and refuse to take control of your life.
How about if people take responsibility for their actions instead of blaming other factors for their lack of discipline. It's shameful and embarassing. Let's all act like adults and take control of our lives. What's bullcrap is when people don't do that, it drives me crazy.
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Getting out of control ?. Where you been brother ?
Good call I understated the problem for sure!
This is from the CDC:
•In 2010, of the 38,329 drug overdose deaths in the United States, 22,134 (60%) were related to pharmaceuticals.
•In 2011, about 1.4 million ED visits involved the nonmedical use of pharmaceuticals. Among those ED visits, 501,207 visits were related to anti-anxiety and insomnia medications, and 420,040 visits were related to opioid analgesics
•In the United States, prescription opioid abuse costs were about $55.7 billion in 2007.
It's one of the dirtiest industries in the world. That stuff turns people into zombies.
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http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/is-addiction-a-disease.htmQuote:
I know plenty about addiction. It's all mental.
Swing and a miss (You made Dave Kingman look like a contact hitter)
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Also, everybody could be smart in the first place and just not consume the toxins and open themselves up to being weak-minded and becoming addicted. If you never drink, you'll never become an alcoholic. If you drink and become an addict, you're weak and refuse to take control of your life.
You don't happen to attend the Westboro Baptist Church do you
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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http://www.addictionsandrecovery.org/is-addiction-a-disease.htm
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I know plenty about addiction. It's all mental.
Swing and a miss (You made Dave Kingman look like a contact hitter)
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Also, everybody could be smart in the first place and just not consume the toxins and open themselves up to being weak-minded and becoming addicted. If you never drink, you'll never become an alcoholic. If you drink and become an addict, you're weak and refuse to take control of your life.
You don't happen to attend the Westboro Baptist Church do you
http://www.thecleanslate.org/myths/addiction-is-not-a-brain-disease-it-is-a-choice/
Yes, I attend the Westboro Baptist Church because I use common sense to argue against the idea of drug addiction as a disease. Nice attempt to discredit me by trying to liken me to a deranged gorup of people instead of debating with intelligence. Want to try again to have a real discussion of differing opinions, or do you want to keep deflecting my points with childish insults? I contend that using the term "disease" for something like alcoholism is an excuse and easy way out for those addicts.
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Just reading the URL of that article, you can throw it out the window.
You don't get a choice about physical addiction, and you have to learn how to overcome the mental addiction - which is also the really, really terrifying aspect of addiction. That mental obsession is what causes people who have been sober for 20+ years to decide to give it one more shot and then end up destroying themselves.
The overly simplified crockpot of a description you gave is wrong.
Yes - the addict has to choose when/where their bottom is, but it is hardly just "that simple".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Just reading the URL of that article, you can throw it out the window.
You don't get a choice about physical addiction, and you have to learn how to overcome the mental addiction - which is also the really, really terrifying aspect of addiction. That mental obsession is what causes people who have been sober for 20+ years to decide to give it one more shot and then end up destroying themselves.
The overly simplified crockpot of a description you gave is wrong.
Yes - the addict has to choose when/where their bottom is, but it is hardly just "that simple".
1) Can a person who has had 9 beers choose to not grab that 10th one? Yes or no?
2) Can a person who has cancer (an actual disease) choose to not have cancer? Yes or no?
You see the main difference there? Choice. I never said it was "that simple." I broke addiction down to its most basic core, which is that it's a choice instead of disease. AIDS, cancer, autism, heart disease, etc. are diseases with physiological abnormalities which are treated with medication. Alcoholism does not contain a physiological abnormality which can be treated with medication. Alcoholism LEADS to real diseases, such as liver disease.
3) Are there support groups to help AIDS patients rid their bodies of AIDS by providing emotional support? I'm not talking about support groups to help an AIDS patient emotionally cope with their disease, I'm talking about to help them make lifestyle changes to literally get rid of AIDS. Yes or no?
4) Are there support groups to helps alcoholics rid themselves of alocholic urges and to make better life choices? Yes or no?
Again, there is a choice involved with alcoholism and a way to alter the addict lifestyle to a point where the addiction is gone. It's not a disease, it's a choice. I'm not saying it isn't difficult to stop being an addict. However, it is every addict's CHOICE to not be one. An alcoholic can be sober for the rest of their lives by never picking up another alcoholic beverage. An AIDS, autism, epilepsy, or cancer patient doesn't share that same fortune.
"That mental obsession is what causes people who have been sober for 20+ years to decide to give it one more shot and then end up destroying themselves."
Right, they decide to give it one more shot, that's their choice.
"Yes - the addict has to choose when/where their bottom is, but it is hardly just that simple."
The addict, again, is choosing when/where that bottom is. Two quotes from you which clearly support my argument. Maybe you should read the article in the link I provided. I'm not sure what your problem is with the title and dismissing it without looking at it makes your comment an overly simplified crockpot of an opinion. But, if you're hellbent on seeing an article from a .gov domain, here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1545723
It's an abstract, I believe we'd have to pay for the full published article.
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1) Can a person who has had 9 beers choose to not grab that 10th one? Yes or no?
Not always. And many times, flat out - NO.
Period.
One thing I will give you is that my belief that a big part of the classification of chemical dependency as a "disease" is simply a maneuver by the AMA to force the "treatment" of it to qualify for insurance dollars. Much the way that obesity is now a "disease".
Beyond that, however, one does not simply choose to be an alcoholic, and once you become one, it is not as simple as making a decision to not be one. Getting sober DEFINITELY does not mean you are no longer an alcoholic. It IS an affliction, and it is permanent, and it kills. Whether it fits some narrow definition of "disease"... I don't care. It's definitely not as simple as a decision, though.
Last edited by PrplPplEater; 03/24/14 03:53 PM.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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1) Can a person who has had 9 beers choose to not grab that 10th one? Yes or no?
Not always. And many time, flat out - NO.
Period.
They have no ability to choose to not drink that beer? Somebody is physically holding them back, or they choose to drink it because the urge is too strong? It is a very difficult choice to drink or not drink that beer, but in the end, they are still the one making that choice.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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1) Can a person who has had 9 beers choose to not grab that 10th one? Yes or no?
Not always. And many times, flat out - NO.
Period.
One thing I will give you is that my belief that a big part of the classification of chemical dependency as a "disease" is simply a maneuver by the AMA to force the "treatment" of it to qualify for insurance dollars. Much the way that obesity is now a "disease".
Beyond that, however, one does not simply choose to be an alcoholic, and once you become one, it is not as simple as making a decision to not be one. Getting sober DEFINITELY does not mean you are no longer an alcoholic. It IS an affliction, and it is permanent, and it kills. Whether it fits some narrow definition of "disease"... I don't care. It's definitely not as simple as a decision, though.
Affliction is a perfect term for the likes of alcoholism and obesity, I 100% agree with you. That's why I don't feel sorry for drug addicts, because in the end, it is still up to them to make these harmful decisions. As difficult as it is to say no to that 10th beer or a shot of heroin, it's still in their control and they do the damage to themselves by not doing what's best for themselves. I'm not saying someone wakes up one day and says they're going to become an alcoholic, but they have the ability to not do that to their body with their own choices and excuses should not be made for them by labeling their poor choices as a disease. Too many excuses are made for people, it seems that nobody wants to take responsibility for their decisions and actions, so we need to come up with ways to not put the blame on them. Therefore, afflictions and poor choices such as becoming obese or an alcoholic can be labeled as a disease, giving them a pass on their condition, and allowing the harmful trend to continue.
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Let me ask you this.... does the person who is compelled to cut themselves not get considered to be mentally ill? They can choose to not do it at any time, right?
How about hoarders? They feel an innate NEED to not throw anything away, and they could just simply choose to not do it, right? But, they're not mentally ill, are they?
How about serial killers or pedophiles? They very often know that what they do is very, very wrong, yet they can't stop themselves from doing it... but, they're not sick, are they?
What about the guy on the street corner with Tourrette's?
Is alcoholism like kidney disease? Nope.
Is it a mental illness (disease)? Absolutely.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
lol! Good try.
As a recovering alcoholic of nearly 8 years, I know very well of all of that.... and I also know all too well that all the discipline and self-control in the universe sometimes just isn't enough, and I know because I've buried people that thought they could do it themselves on willpower alone.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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You're both right and wrong at the same time. Not sure that helps. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Let me ask you this.... does the person who is compelled to cut themselves not get considered to be mentally ill? They can choose to not do it at any time, right?
How about hoarders? They feel an innate NEED to not throw anything away, and they could just simply choose to not do it, right? But, they're not mentally ill, are they?
How about serial killers or pedophiles? They very often know that what they do is very, very wrong, yet they can't stop themselves from doing it... but, they're not sick, are they?
What about the guy on the street corner with Tourrette's?
Is alcoholism like kidney disease? Nope.
Is it a mental illness (disease)? Absolutely.
Alcoholism is a mental disorder which can be treated with emotional support, education, and therapy. To me, that's not a disease.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
lol! Good try.
As a recovering alcoholic of nearly 8 years, I know very well of all of that.... and I also know all too well that all the discipline and self-control in the universe sometimes just isn't enough, and I know because I've buried people that thought they could do it themselves on willpower alone.
Well done on being a recovering alcoholic. How did you beat it?
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
lol! Good try.
As a recovering alcoholic of nearly 8 years, I know very well of all of that.... and I also know all too well that all the discipline and self-control in the universe sometimes just isn't enough, and I know because I've buried people that thought they could do it themselves on willpower alone.
Well done on being a recovering alcoholic. How did you beat it?
I didn't... I consider myself in remission.
RecoverING, not recoverED.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
lol! Good try.
As a recovering alcoholic of nearly 8 years, I know very well of all of that.... and I also know all too well that all the discipline and self-control in the universe sometimes just isn't enough, and I know because I've buried people that thought they could do it themselves on willpower alone.
Well done on being a recovering alcoholic. How did you beat it?
I didn't... I consider myself in remission.
RecoverING, not recoverED.
Okay, let me rephrase. How are you beatING it?
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Let me ask you this.... does the person who is compelled to cut themselves not get considered to be mentally ill? They can choose to not do it at any time, right?
How about hoarders? They feel an innate NEED to not throw anything away, and they could just simply choose to not do it, right? But, they're not mentally ill, are they?
How about serial killers or pedophiles? They very often know that what they do is very, very wrong, yet they can't stop themselves from doing it... but, they're not sick, are they?
What about the guy on the street corner with Tourrette's?
Is alcoholism like kidney disease? Nope.
Is it a mental illness (disease)? Absolutely.
Alcoholism is a mental disorder which can be treated with emotional support, education, and therapy. To me, that's not a disease.
A mental disorder is a disease.
It's an affliction that one suffers from against one's will, just as is liver cancer.
I can decide/choose to not drink all day every day for the rest of my life.... that will never change the fact that I will still be an alcoholic and I will never be able to safely take a drink... your argument wishes to confuse the symptom with the illness.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
lol! Good try.
As a recovering alcoholic of nearly 8 years, I know very well of all of that.... and I also know all too well that all the discipline and self-control in the universe sometimes just isn't enough, and I know because I've buried people that thought they could do it themselves on willpower alone.
Well done on being a recovering alcoholic. How did you beat it?
I didn't... I consider myself in remission.
RecoverING, not recoverED.
Okay, let me rephrase. How are you beatING it?
One day at a time, with a power greater than myself, a support group and a new way of living... and yes, a choice to not take that first drink.
That choice does nothing to remove what afflicts me.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Spoken like someone who simply has no understanding of the word "compulsion".
Spoken like someone who has no understanding of discipline or self-control.
lol! Good try.
As a recovering alcoholic of nearly 8 years, I know very well of all of that.... and I also know all too well that all the discipline and self-control in the universe sometimes just isn't enough, and I know because I've buried people that thought they could do it themselves on willpower alone.
Well done on being a recovering alcoholic. How did you beat it?
I didn't... I consider myself in remission.
RecoverING, not recoverED.
Okay, let me rephrase. How are you beatING it?
One day at a time, with a power greater than myself, a support group and a new way of living... and yes, a choice to not take that first drink.
That choice does nothing to remove what afflicts me.
How you're beating it is everything I have described in this thread and pointed to as to why it's not a disease. You just confirmed my entire argument. If you still can't see what I'm saying by this point, I rest my argument and agree to disagree with you. I don't know how much more I can repeat what I've been saying after you just acknowledged it as a fact in your own personal life. Congratulations on taking responsibility and choosing to control your life. You, unlike other addicts, are strong-willed and giving the middle finger to your weaknesses. I respect that and hope it continues for the rest of your life.
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And yet, you ignore the fact that my choice is only removing a symptom of the issue and that the illness remains.
I am still an alcoholic. My choice to not take that first drink does not make me not an alcoholic. It makes me sober - for today. Tomorrow, I fight the battle all over again. I'm managing symptoms. That is all. If you cannot see that this differs not in the slightest from any other mental compulsion/illness, then I too simply will rest my case and we can agree to disagree.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I use common sense to argue against the idea of drug addiction as a disease.
You made an asinine statement, and I responded with a asinine statement.
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I contend that using the term "disease" for something like alcoholism is an excuse and easy way out for those addicts.
There is no EASY way out for somebody who is addicted.
As for the childish insults... well I ain't that smart but i'm good at them.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
I think classifying alcoholism as a mental illness is perfectly sound logic. When you start saying it is a disease, people get all uppity about comparing it to something like cancer which is largely much more unkind and uncontrollable. Fundamentally both are diseases but calling it a mental illness reduces people getting uppity about definitions. Obesity would be slightly different. Everything is sort of a messy combination of sloppy genetics and poor upbringing (triggering bad habits and flipping on epigenetics for addictive behaviors).
The problem with obesity or alcoholism is that fundamentally there is no cure for crappy neurochemistry. You can stop drinking and stop eating so much, but with current medicine you'll never end up normal. Best you can do is manage influx of the drug and get some social support via support groups, counseling, priests or therapy etc.
I don't have alcoholism so it is really hard to relate but man I notice a stark increase in like many positive moods and attributes when I drink. Must be difficult to have that even more heightened and difficult to control.
Last edited by Kingcob; 03/24/14 08:47 PM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 19,265 |
Quote:
Alcoholism is a mental disorder which can be treated with emotional support, education, and therapy. To me, that's not a disease.
Emotional support, education and therapy are also used to treat type 2 diabetes, IBS, fibromyalgia and rheumatoid arthritis.....diseases which, like alcoholism, have no cure but can be managed with lifestyle changes.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Quote:
Getting out of control ?. Where you been brother ?
Good call I understated the problem for sure!
This is from the CDC:
•In 2010, of the 38,329 drug overdose deaths in the United States, 22,134 (60%) were related to pharmaceuticals.
•In 2011, about 1.4 million ED visits involved the nonmedical use of pharmaceuticals. Among those ED visits, 501,207 visits were related to anti-anxiety and insomnia medications, and 420,040 visits were related to opioid analgesics
•In the United States, prescription opioid abuse costs were about $55.7 billion in 2007.
Can somebody tell me why Emergency Room had to be changed to Emergency Department? Ok, it wasn't just one room, we get it.... but damn it, ED is Erectile Dysfunction so I'm not going to the ED...
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850 |
But if you have type 2 diabetes, IBS, fibromyalgia, or rheumatiod arthritis your just weak and refuse to take control of your life. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Glad to see I'm not the only one sick of the idea that mental illness/diseases aren't as real, severe or important as physical illnesses are. 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850 |
Hey we found something we can agree on  *Man hug*
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,957
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,957 |
Quote:
But if you have type 2 diabetes, IBS, fibromyalgia, or rheumatiod arthritis your just weak and refuse to take control of your life.
Yup, just like depression isn't a disease. If you know someone suffering from depression, they are mentally weak. The best thing you can do for them is tell them that, and tell them to "just get over it".
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,850 |
Yep my wife's best friend suffered from it right up to the day she started the car in the garage and killed herself while her three kids were sleeping in the house. I guess she got over it.  Oh crap maybe that should have been in purple
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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