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This was an interesting debate. At first, I thought you and Purp were full of crap. I sided w/Lemmy.
I still side w/Lemmy, but you guys presented really good arguments. Purp............I really respect you for your honesty.
I've battled some of the same things. I had horrific knee injuries in college. Of course, I had to take pain medications, but I went overboard alcohol and drug use. I get why I did it, but I think the problem was my own. I should have been stronger. So, that is why I side w/Lemmy. However, I understand what you are saying and am not criticizing you.
I'm a pretty big drinker. Always have been. Predisposed? Perhaps? However, I view it as my own weakness. It's something I struggle to control.
I smoked 2-3 huge cigars a day for years. Something happened to me. I don't want to get into it, but I thought it was the cigars. It wasn't. It's genetic. However, I haven't had a cigar since Labor Day. It's difficult. But man, like Lemmy says..............you gotta take control over your own life.
Guys, there are no easy answers here. Some of the most caring people I have ever met were hooked on drugs. The mother of one my all-time best players was hooked on drugs and alcohol. She would do anything for you. She was supportive, giving, and friendly. Unfortunately, she got addicted to crack. She sold her body. She sold her husband's car for drugs. She lost all three of her kids. She went to prison once. Then again. And then again for a third time. All of her kids, who once so promising, are now screwed up.
Yo man..............we are all screwed up. It's about depressing the demons and making sure we are positive contributors in society. I am not saying I am right. I just think that it takes a lot of self-discipline to overcome our issues. It's not easy. However, I think that we should all strive to overcome our issues rather than use them as an excuse for poor behavior.
I want to reiterate that I am not bad-mouthing anyone w/a drug issue. I understand. I was just thinking things through. Peace.
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![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I am still an alcoholic. My choice to not take that first drink does not make me not an alcoholic. It makes me sober - for today. Tomorrow, I fight the battle all over again. I'm managing symptoms. That is all. If you cannot see that this differs not in the slightest from any other mental compulsion/illness, then I too simply will rest my case and we can agree to disagree.
Well put. Just like some diabetics can control their disease by avoiding sugar, carbohydrates, etc.. that helps them manage the symptoms and keeps the disease in order.. you do it by avoiding alcohol.
yebat' Putin
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Lemmy made some good points and I agree with them to a degree, I bashed him because I disagree with him on some of the things he said. I bashed him because of the way he said them, I thought his posts were coming off as a better than thou argument and from somebody who has never delt with addiction. You know somebody who is not addicted does have the choice to stop drinking after the first or second drink. Somebody who is addicted does not have that choice. I felt like he was only presenting one side of the argument without having a clue how the other side was. Ya'll know me and you know I can disagree with you 110 percent at times, and you know it's not personal. You know it's just two guys butting heads who disagree but you know it doesn't mean we won't agree on other subjects  Addiction is not a choice, it is not something anybody ever wants to happen or even thinks it could ever happen to them. It does not make them weak, or even different from everybody else. It just happens when people think it could never happen to them, and nobody deserves to be bashed for it. They deserve our help and support not our backhanded comments.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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When I was growing up, my best friend's father was an alcoholic. He would go months without having a drink .... and once even went a year. However, he would inevitably slip and fall back into "needing" a drink. Once he had one, it was like someone flipped a switch in his head, and he would drink himself to unconsciousness, and start over when he woke up.
He would push his family away when he was drinking. He wanted nothing except the next drink. Nothing else was important to him. It was a shame.
I have hung out with some serious drinkers, who could drink 5 people under the table in one sitting, and then not have a drink fo a year. It wasn't that important to them. I have known alcoholics whose entire lives seemed determined by either getting, or avoiding their next drink.
I believe that alcoholism is a disease. It is almost like alcohol poisons the entire system, mind, body, and soul, of the alcoholic. An alcoholic can't just have one drink. One drink becomes a destructive pattern, and one that they have to be damn strong to overcome.
When I was younger, I thought that alcoholism wasn't a "real" disease, but I have reversed my opinion as I have gotten older, and met more people who have struggled with it. It is far more than just "Oh, that guy has a problem." I believe that it is something in the very structure of the alcoholic that eliminates the ability to handle alcohol in any responsible or moderate manner. I think that too many people (not necessarily people here, but in general) think that an alcoholic is the guy who goes out and drinks to excess on a weekend, and acts like an idiot. A person may be a problem drinker without being an alcoholic. For the alcoholic, it seems like they become physically and mentally addicted to the alcohol, in a way that other people do not. I believe that it is a real disease, as are many other emotional diseases. However, i do think that too many people try to lump too much bad behavior into disease, when in reality, it is just bas behavior. Each case has to be addressed individually.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have hung out with some serious drinkers, who could drink 5 people under the table in one sitting
Did you have to drag me into this 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
I have hung out with some serious drinkers, who could drink 5 people under the table in one sitting
Did you have to drag me into this
I never drag. I just pulled out the chair, and you jumped to sit down. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Not my fault the music stopped and I didn't want to lose the game.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Not my fault the music stopped and I didn't want to lose the game.
That music ...... was all in your head.
There was no real music playing ......  
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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damn old timers disease 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I resemble that remark ..... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just clicking
Back on topic, you see this guy, for reasons I may never understand (because I don't walk in his shoes) and you compare him to a class act like Ralph Wilson and you have to think, how can anyone go so off the beam?
sad really.. Hope he cleans up.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't believe that I said that he was a class act, nor do I recall comparing him to Ralph Wilson.
What I said is that I have an appreciation for how certain drugs can really impact your system, and I can see how someone could suffer from addiction. That is not to say that I am making a hero out of the guy. I just see how he could have fallen into the trap he did.
There are some people in this world who immediately become long term addicted on both a physical and mental/emotional level from the 1st time they used a drug and/or alcohol. Others do not. Look at smokers. Many years ago, I was able to quit after smoking after 20 years. It was relatively easy for me once I made up my mind that I was going to do it, and made a plan. Other people simply cannot do it without help. All people are different, and all people react to addictive substances. That is all I said. I am not making a hero out of the guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't believe that I said that he was a class act, nor do I recall comparing him to Ralph Wilson.
What I said is that I have an appreciation for how certain drugs can really impact your system, and I can see how someone could suffer from addiction. That is not to say that I am making a hero out of the guy. I just see how he could have fallen into the trap he did.
There are some people in this world who immediately become long term addicted on both a physical and mental/emotional level from the 1st time they used a drug and/or alcohol. Others do not. Look at smokers. Many years ago, I was able to quit after smoking after 20 years. It was relatively easy for me once I made up my mind that I was going to do it, and made a plan. Other people simply cannot do it without help. All people are different, and all people react to addictive substances. That is all I said. I am not making a hero out of the guy.
Geez Ytown,, when did i say you said any of that.. if you look, I said, "JUST CLICKING" Man,,, and people say I can't read.....Geesh
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sorry. I saw "You" and Ass U Med that it was a reply to me.
Mea Culpa.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sorry. I saw "You" and Ass U Med that it was a reply to me.
Mea Culpa.
It certainly is youra Culpa LOL
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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There are some people in this world who immediately become long term addicted on both a physical and mental/emotional level from the 1st time they used a drug and/or alcohol.
almost 30 years ago do to failed marriage and other things I went off on a 2 year binge to pretty much destroy myself. You name it, I did it... finally on one weekend I spent 721 ( all the money I had and my dealer was a friend so that was his costs), on coke. Even went as far as to shoot it... that was the last time I did any hard drugs... but to this day if I give blood or have blood taken I have flash backs to that weekend, I get the craving.
I keep taped on a my computer a little piece of paper with 721 written on it.
Addiction can sneak up on you
A lesson learned and never forgotten.
Last edited by texaslostdawg; 03/26/14 06:00 PM.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I grew up in a home where both parents smoked and drank. I was exposed to cigarette smoking and beer drinking nearly everyday of my early life.
When 10-12 yrs old, I was offered cigarettes and beer, tried both...damn near choked to death on a cigarette and beer did nothing for me.
A few years later, when I was in high school, there were some of my classmates (friends) who smoked, drank and some experimented with marijuana every weekend...I chose not to.
In college and in the military, smoking, drinking and drugs were available to anyone who wanted them.
At each stage of my life, I made a "choice"...a choice not to smoke, drink or do drugs...others made a different choice, taking up smoking, drinking or doing drugs.
I have a very hard time classifying these choices as a disease.
Last edited by mac; 03/27/14 08:42 AM.
GM strong...
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Starting is a choice.
To some people, it's the inability to quit that's the disease.
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yep, I agree.... those were choices I made, it was not something that was pre disposed by a gene or a disease.
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Irsay’s situation gets more complicated Posted by Mike Florio on April 6, 2014, 12:42 PM EDT For Colts owner Jim Irsay, an arrest last month on charges of operating a vehicle while intoxicated and felony possession of a controlled substance (four counts) may have been the tipping point in a series of problems that, at a minimum, justifies careful examination by the league office. According to Tim Evans and Mark Alesia of the Indianapolis Star, the arrest came less than three weeks after a woman was found dead of an apparent drug overdose in a townhouse Irsay previously had given to her. Police and the coroner are reportedly waiting for toxicology results before determining the cause of Kimberly Wundrum’s death. Per the Star, a police report determines that a plate with “white powder, straw, razor” were found in the townhouse, along with photographs of Irsay. The Star report also raises the question of whether Irsay purchased the townhouse given to Wundrum with money flowing from Irsay’s ownership of the Colts. Because he’s the sole owner of the team, the decision to divert funds for personal use won’t be a problem — unless, of course, charges incurred for personal endeavors were reflected as business expenses. Irsay reportedly had $29,000 in his possession when arrested, with the cash in a briefcase, his wallet, and laundry bags. That dynamic has not yet been explained by Irsay or the Colts, and it hasn’t received the scrutiny from the media that perhaps it should. Still, there seems to be little disagreement on the proposition that Irsay must face the same consequences that a player would face under similar circumstances. When it comes to disciplining an owner, however, the financial penalty that best mirrors the standard punishment of two game checks for a first-offense DUI by a player could be a major fine that would take away two weeks of the money Irsay earns during the season based on his 100-percent ownership of the franchise. web page Irsay gives a townhouse to a gal who dies of a drug overdose about 3 weeks before Irsay was arrested...any connection?
Then there is that little issue of the $29k Irsay had in his wallet, brief case and "laundry bags"???
This could get very interesting...
GM strong...
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I didn't know that having 29k stashed around was illegal. At least not yet. And if it isn't, he owes nobody an explanation for it.
And secondly, unless they can place him at the scene or the one who actually gave the woman the drugs, I don't see any impact there either.
I think unless they can show proof it was Irsay himself who facilitated the drugs to the woman, all of this is useless drivel that means nothing.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Maybe not in a court of law, Pit....................but man, this guy seems to have a huge problem and he should be disciplined and get help.
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Quote:
I didn't know that having 29k stashed around was illegal. At least not yet. And if it isn't, he owes nobody an explanation for it.
And secondly, unless they can place him at the scene or the one who actually gave the woman the drugs, I don't see any impact there either.
I think unless they can show proof it was Irsay himself who facilitated the drugs to the woman, all of this is useless drivel that means nothing.
JMHO
And those things that you mentioned after the first are why Irsay owes an explanation, if to nobody else but the police investigating the case of the woman's death.
If he refuses to answer the questions then the evidence can become enough to be circumstantial. That's all you need to convince a grand jury that a trial should be forthcoming.
True, he could maintain his silence with the questioning, but I'm sure that federal investigators will be interested in his business dealings. If he bought the home with business funds and expensed them as business expenses, he could be facing some serious problems with the feds.
He may not be convicted of anything, but it could be enough for the NFL to yank his franchise from him.
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He may not be convicted of anything, but it could be enough for the NFL to yank his franchise from him.
I'd love to see that! (As long as the Colts stay in Indy). Guy's a total jerk. I guess our owner is too though. At least that's what it seems like. He's good dealing with the media, may be the players. But from what I've seen, he's a crook of a businessman
Sad, the NFL players are asked to hold a conduct that the owners can't even live up to. I guess that's the nature of business. Your job is to worry about meeting the expectations put on yourself, not worrying about what your boss is doing.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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He may not be convicted of anything, but it could be enough for the NFL to yank his franchise from him.
I'd love to see that! (As long as the Colts stay in Indy). Guy's a total jerk. I guess our owner is too though. At least that's what it seems like. He's good dealing with the media, may be the players. But from what I've seen, he's a crook of a businessman
Sad, the NFL players are asked to hold a conduct that the owners can't even live up to. I guess that's the nature of business. Your job is to worry about meeting the expectations put on yourself, not worrying about what your boss is doing.
The situation with Haslam is a lot more murky than the straight-forward problems that Irsay is facing.
Irsay had the bags of money on him when he got busted for DUI and possession charges.
It's quite conceivable that Haslam's underlings did this without his knowledge or approval. It doesn't seem to me that the feds have a surefire case against Haslam. They raided his business offices but he wasn't arrested.
If the feds have a legit case against Haslam, he'll go to prison (it'll be a Club Med vacation style prison) and he may even be able to hand over temporary control while he serves his sentence.
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Doesnt everyone have bags full of cash in their car?
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Doesnt everyone have bags full of cash in their car?
Sure they do.
In my case the bags, and denominations are much smaller.
#GMSTRONG
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Doesnt everyone have bags full of cash in their car?
They could if they chose to. Nothing illegal about it. At least not yet. It sounds like some people feel it should be though....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I havent seen anyone imply that at all. I think its stupid, but thats about it.
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Quote:
Doesnt everyone have bags full of cash in their car?
Sure they do.
In my case the bags, and denominations are much smaller.
I only get a cup with some change in it.
I see how I rate. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I havent seen anyone imply that at all. I think its stupid, but thats about it.
Actually I believe that's an odd way of looking at it.
In the 80's and 90's I used to do a lot of trading. It was perfectly legal for a private owner of a firearm to sell it without paperwork or documentation. I traded in guns, jewelry, knives and sometimes even cars and trucks.
Cash was always used. I had several thousands of dollars in cash at almost all times. The SKS AK market was unbelievable. I got in on them before the import ban and sold them a few years later more than doubling my money on both the guns and ammo.
Having thousands of liquid cash didn't play out as stupid for me at all.
I don't know why Irsay had that much cash, but believe me, if the grid ever goes down, you may wish you had a large supply of cash on hand as well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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If the grid goes down, cash wont mean squat. If you park your car with 29k in it and someone smashes the window and steals it, will your insurance pay for it? Maybe cash was king 30 years ago, but those days are long gone.
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I love cash.. Cash IS King..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
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Doesnt everyone have bags full of cash in their car?
Sure they do.
In my case the bags, and denominations are much smaller.
Monopoly money instead of the game of Life money?
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Doesnt everyone have bags full of cash in their car?
They could if they chose to. Nothing illegal about it. At least not yet. It sounds like some people feel it should be though....
There isn't anything illegal about it but it is suspicious.
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Yep, the saying is right now that about the only people that really need cash are criminals... so anybody with large sums of it look suspicious.
yebat' Putin
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I didn't know that having 29k stashed around was illegal. At least not yet. And if it isn't, he owes nobody an explanation for it.
And secondly, unless they can place him at the scene or the one who actually gave the woman the drugs, I don't see any impact there either.
I think unless they can show proof it was Irsay himself who facilitated the drugs to the woman, all of this is useless drivel that means nothing.
JMHO
You're completely correct, but it still looks pretty freaking shady.
There's a big old poop-storm brewing somewhere under all of this.... and I agree with the proposed model for fining him. There is no reason the league's owner's shouldn't be held to AT LEAST the same standard as their players.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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jc...
Nothing illegal about carrying around 29k in cash, but doing so by stuffing laundry bags with cash seems to be a bit out of character for someone as the owner of an NFL franchise.
I understand that certain businesses deal in cash only...maybe big Jim was dealing with that kind of businessman.
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Quote:
jc...
Nothing illegal about carrying around 29k in cash, but doing so by stuffing laundry bags with cash seems to be a bit out of character for someone as the owner of an NFL franchise.
I understand that certain businesses deal in cash only...maybe big Jim was dealing with that kind of businessman.
Absolutely, but I'd imagine that he'd have a money bag or something like that. Laundry bags just sound shady
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Jim Irsay arrested for DUI,
possession of controlled substance
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