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I hope they want to use 10 draft picks in a year when they have 10 going into it.
10 picks is about the average that good teams get because of compensatory picks being added.
The league is set up for a winning recipe being, add players, develop those players, and allow those players to leave through free agency giving you compensatory picks.
Like it or not that is what the current system rewards and any NFL team should be trying for that.
You had me..
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The Browns aren't very good at developing, keeping, and later letting go to get compensatory picks, their players. That's partly why the Browns are stuck at the bottom of Niagara Falls spinning around in 4-12 records year after year.
You had me...
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And. Record this. I want Johnny Freaking Manziel at #4 and I don't care about the Red Flags, and I also don't care if he Busts, it's worth the risk!
(After all, it's only 1 first round pick, you get one every year.)
You had me...
Quote:
 Coulda had Tannehill.
and you lost me.
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Did Jared Allen officially sign with Seattle? That team is unbelievable. I can't find a hole on that defense. I have zero doubts they'll coach guys up to replace Thurmond and Browner. They can use the entire draft on whatever holes they have on offense.
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Allen left Seattle without a contract.
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I pray we dont trade for Schaub, why in the heck would we trade away draft picks and or Hoyer and than bring in a possible Back-up QB and pay him 10m a year, The same amount were paying our Center, 20 million a year in those two guys, Schaub will be released or the Raiders can have him for 10Mil a year, and no we dont need Pryor either..
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Quote:
Quote:
I hope they want to use 10 draft picks in a year when they have 10 going into it.
10 picks is about the average that good teams get because of compensatory picks being added.
The league is set up for a winning recipe being, add players, develop those players, and allow those players to leave through free agency giving you compensatory picks.
Like it or not that is what the current system rewards and any NFL team should be trying for that.
You had me..
Quote:
The Browns aren't very good at developing, keeping, and later letting go to get compensatory picks, their players. That's partly why the Browns are stuck at the bottom of Niagara Falls spinning around in 4-12 records year after year.
You had me...
Quote:
And. Record this. I want Johnny Freaking Manziel at #4 and I don't care about the Red Flags, and I also don't care if he Busts, it's worth the risk!
(After all, it's only 1 first round pick, you get one every year.)
You had me...
Quote:
Coulda had Tannehill.
and you lost me.
steve ... exactly my thoughts. Was rolling right along till the end
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#GMSTRONG
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Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Mike Vick signs with Jets
As Sanchez makes his exit.
Just Say No!
I'd take him over Tanney as our #3 and the prospect of bringing Grossman in here.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Mike Vick signs with Jets
As Sanchez makes his exit.
Just Say No!
I'd take him over Tanney as our #3 and the prospect of bringing Grossman in here.
Tanney is better than Grossman & Sanchez... combined.
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Huh?
Not saying you're wrong but what do you base that on? (hopefully it's not his YouTube video)
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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He's simply trying for a reaction.
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I would offer him an incentive based contract and let him duke it out with Hoyer in training camp. Like him or not he was a legit QB before the Jets fell apart around him. Tanney is nothing more than a clipboard holder. Sanchez has starting experience and can win games and lead his team deep in the playoffs.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Chiefs sign former Browns corner Chris Owens  Good luck with that... hardly depth at even a corner in the dime. Specials teams player at best. JMO
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Huh?
Not saying you're wrong but what do you base that on? (hopefully it's not his YouTube video)
Tanney is better for no other reason than you don't know what you have in him.
You know that Grossman and Sanchez both suck.
Instead of signing Grossman, the Browns could have kept Weeden or Campbell and had similar production and actually been younger.
As for Sanchez, the only thing you can say is that Buttfumble was so bad that the Jets drafted Geno Smith to replace him and have brought in Michael Vick to replace Smith. What's that tell you?
I will be severely disappointed if the Browns sign either of these guys. It would have to be for a league minimum for their level of experience without any guaranteed money.
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Jc Moore to Steelers and RG J.Jerry on a. Cheap one year deal to Reese and the Giants. Those are the kind of smart value deals we're missing....really disappointed by this FA. We still have the same problems and do nothing about it while sitting on 30+mil of cap 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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All Pro
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Huh?
Not saying you're wrong but what do you base that on? (hopefully it's not his YouTube video)
Tanney is better for no other reason than you don't know what you have in him.
You know that Grossman and Sanchez both suck.
Instead of signing Grossman, the Browns could have kept Weeden or Campbell and had similar production and actually been younger.
As for Sanchez, the only thing you can say is that Buttfumble was so bad that the Jets drafted Geno Smith to replace him and have brought in Michael Vick to replace Smith. What's that tell you?
I will be severely disappointed if the Browns sign either of these guys. It would have to be for a league minimum for their level of experience without any guaranteed money.
At least we could watch trick shots in pre game warm ups on Sunday.
http://youtu.be/SxDJb03a0yo
GO BROWNS!
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One of my issues with Chud (though obviously not a big one) was why did Tanney not get any playing time at the end? The season was lost. What benefit was there to playing Campbell? Why not get Tanney some experience and take at look at what we have? Tanney should have started the last game, possible the last 2.
The difference between Jesus and religion
Religion mocks you for having dirty feet
Jesus gets down on his knees and washes them
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I won't blame Chud for that one. I think Tanney was signed as strictly a project and that everyone in the organization knew he would not play a down. They even brought in another stiff that one week when JC and Weeden were on the injury list.
I just don't think Tanney was ready to sniff the field. He must have some ability. They probably thought they could develop it over the course of a couple of years.
That would be my guess.
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Didn't read what Vers wrote so might be redundant.
1. Chud might have sensed at the end as some things started happening after the Jets game that he had to win.
2. Tanney wasn't close to being ready - you don't want to see what you already know. The kid wasn't close to Campbell n Weeden in their execution of the Offense and we know that wasn't so good so imagine how Tanney was.
Just guessing...when did he join us? like past mid season right?
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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He definitely wasn't ready, and he probably didn't even know the offense at that point.
Either one would keep a QB off the field on Sunday, and both were true for Tanney.
"I'll take your word at face value. I have never met you but I assume you have a face..lol"
-Ballpeen
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I'm not sure who "Moore" is, but John Jerry is pure garbage and I'm glad we didn't sign him.
you had a good run Hank.
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Lance Moore, a been there, done that WR, who will be Big Ben's best friend in a hurry. The kind of value deals good teams do.
Instead we made Andrew Hawkins the 7th best paid player on our roster, lol read that again...
John Jerry has been a bust, but he was no worse than Lauvao and has way more talent. He signed a one year contract at his vet minimum with next to no guaranteed money to compete. Why not bring him in? If he's worse than Gilkey, you cut him. If he's better, than you have depth and not another Cousins fiasco. what's lost?
We needed a FS, CB2 and ILB2 on D and we have the same players on the depth chart still there and did nothing to at least bring some depth or competition there.
On Offense we needed RB, QB, WR2, WRs, FB and OG...and we still need all of that except WRs, where we overpaid for an injury Risk waiting to happen. We signed Tate, which was pretty much the only signing that filled a need, but still have no depth there
We still need 7 starters or at least some sort of competition and I haven't even touched our lack of overall depth. We'll be lucky to have 2-3 day one starters from the draft, the rest will need time as do the rook starters too, so banking on a handful of high picks is not getting it imho.
It's stupid and the same mistake the clowns before them did, which is sit on millions while neglecting obvious needs, while wasting another prime year of the AllPro talent we have already to build around. It's always next year in Cleveland...even with 6 AllPros on the roster. That's not smart, that's Incredibly stupid...you play to win the game, hello???
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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We'll see what happens with Moore in Pittsburgh.
I like him as a possible #3, but let's not overestimate what he'll bring. He dropped off badly with the Saints last year. We'll see if he can rebound or not. He certainly cannot claim to have played with a QB who couldn;t take advantage of his abilities. We'll see how he does.
I really like Hawkins ..... so we'll see how the battle of the #3s turns out.
You are complaining because we didn't sign a lot of perfect starters ...... but how many perfect starters were available? Everyone has some issues .... or else their former team doesn't let them reach free agency. You might get an occasional guy who is a superb player, like Jarius Byrd, however that type of player has his choice of destinations, and i never cheap. (or even remotely reasonable) Byrd signed a 6 year deal with the Saints, for a total of $54 million, with an $11 million signing bonus, and $28 million guaranteed. He didn't come cheap, and that was going to a premium destination. How much more would it have cost us to sign him?
Like it or not we can't just go and blow all of our cap space. 2015 is supposed to be one of the best free agent classes ever. Among those in this class are many of our players. We have to work on getting Haden re-signed. We will have to make a decision on Sheard. Jordan Cameron will be a high end free agent, and, if he continues on his current developmental path to become a solid starter, perhaps Gipson. Rubin and Taylor will be free agents, as will Skrine.Further, Gordon will have only 1 year left in 2015, as will other young DL like Winn and Hughes. We are going to have to make a lot of decisions over the next year or so. A lot of those will be expensive decisions. Very expensive, in some cases.
We need to make sure we have the money to handle those contracts, or else we'll be really set back.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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SIGN ALL THE FREE AGENTS GUYS.
Django, you realize that no team in the history of football has ever filled every single team need?
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I agree that we haven't filled holes. I wish they filled CB2 and they still have a perfect candidate in Arthur Moats to fill ILB2. FS...not sure that's a pressing need right now. On offense, obvious they still need a OG, WR2, and backup QB and developmental QB. Do they need a RB2? Maybe. FB? Yes.
There are still players who can fit some of those holes. Plus, 10 picks in the draft and then cuts before the first game.
I'll wait to see what the roster looks like on 8/1
you had a good run Hank.
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Quote:
SIGN ALL THE FREE AGENTS GUYS.
Django, you realize that no team in the history of football has ever filled every single team need?
I think the point here is that once the season ended, we didn't really fill holes we had at that point in time.
I like Hawkins much more than he does, but other than Hawkins and Tate, our biggest FA signings were holes that were created after the season was over, rather than needs we already had.
A hole is obviously there at CB or there would never had been the interest shown in Revis. With Lavua gone, we obviously need a G, whether that's in the starting role, or if they see Pinkston as the new starter, a quality back-up G as the cupboards are pretty bare there.
Unless someone actually sees Robertson as a viable ILB, that position needs to be filled, and if they do see Robertson in that light, I suggest glasses are needed.
I'm not saying all of our needs could be filled in the FA market, but I do agree with him that we have obvious holes we had going in with not a lot in the way of even visits to try to address them.
So while I'm not quite as down about it as he is, I do consider him to make a valid point here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not saying all of our needs could be filled in the FA market, but I do agree with him that we have obvious holes we had going in with not a lot in the way of even visits to try to address them.
The Problem with that line of thinking is, we don't know who turned us down and just how much we did try and sign some of these guys. Just cause we didn't sign someone you think we should have does not mean that we did not try. I think the FO gets a bad rap with some of you guys cause we don't do things the way you think we should. I think a little waiting to see what happens, instead of Wah Wah Wah all the fricken time would do wonders for ya.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I'm not saying all of our needs could be filled in the FA market, but I do agree with him that we have obvious holes we had going in with not a lot in the way of even visits to try to address them.
The Problem with that line of thinking is, we don't know who turned us down and just how much we did try and sign some of these guys. Just cause we didn't sign someone you think we should have does not mean that we did not try. I think the FO gets a bad rap with some of you guys cause we don't do things the way you think we should. I think a little waiting to see what happens, instead of Wah Wah Wah all the fricken time would do wonders for ya.
Yep. The front office never says "Well, we wanted to visit with premium free agent A, but he turned us down, as did B, C, and D. We did, however, manage a visit with the free agent ranked 16th on our list of priorities." They play up the visits, and the signings, and pretend that those who didn't visit or sign don't exist. Every team does it. They all say the same things too. "Why didn't you bring in (Superstar free agent) for a visit?" "Well, we had to look at the team, and our salary structure, along with the players we currently have at that position, and we decided to look in different directions ........"
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Sorry for the rant, I want to win just as bad as everybody else. We still have a lot of picks and we don't know who is left out there that fits what we are trying to do. Just because we did not sign a G or CB yet doesn't mean we think we are fine, I think they got plans for either in the draft or a late signing. I think we'll be fine.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Quote:
Sorry for the rant, I want to win just as bad as everybody else. We still have a lot of picks and we don't know who is left out there that fits what we are trying to do. Just because we did not sign a G or CB yet doesn't mean we think we are fine, I think they got plans for either in the draft or a late signing. I think we'll be fine.
I didn't see it as a rant. And I'm not crying about it. But if you notice, the guys they wanted to replace, they did so. I understand the logic in what you're saying, however wouldn't you consider it odd that they could get both Dansby and Whitley in here, but none of the G's or legit. CB's that were on the market?
After thinking about that, I didn't see the logic you used as sound. It's no big deal. I mean people see things from different viewpoints. I get that. I just find it odd to buy into believing that we can get top prospects at some positions of need in here, but simply can't even get others to listen to an offer.
We can cut people and replace them, but can't sign players to other obvious holes we had? There were several decent CB's on the market at a reasonable cost, yet none would take offers from us?
Nah, I simply don't buy into that one. If you do, I don't have a problem with that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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it's not like they haven't been trying to get more players, they are just not winning the bidding wars on some. It's obvious to me they are trying to be furgal this year because they know this year is not that break or make year and they want to have room for when that year is here.
Would be nice if they used up some cap space to resign some other players a year early instead of waiting till next year. That way they can front load them and have more room to work with in the future.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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I agree that we haven't filled holes.  I think that all we did in this FA period is fill holes man I don't understand some of the logic here.
Safety hole with Ward and new system...filled with Whitner.
MLB hole with our lack of coverage and loss of DQ...filled with Dansby.
Slot WR hole with Bess going A.W.O.L last season and released...filled with Hawkins
RB hole with the loss of Trent and never really filling it properly...filled with Tate
Loss of a run Blocker since really Vickers - finally we filled it with the forgetable name of a TE known for run blocking.
The only possible "HOLE" that we didn't fill was we lost Lava but I believe our staff feels that they filled that with a Healthy Pinkston.
Its like am I in some alternate universe and all this didn't happen???
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Please make a list of needs right after the season and now....if you think that list has changed significantly, then yes, I do believe you live in an alternate universe  And please save us all the obligatory homer apologetics, just give me the lists, will you...
#gmstrong
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We had a SLIGHT improvement at inside LB and SS imo and we improved at WR, RB, and backup TE so far
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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At the final snap of the regular season our holes were the following....at least to me.
Offense- QB, RB, WR2/Slot, OG.
Defense- ILBx2, CB2, FS.
The Browns created a hole themselves at SS choosing to let Ward walk. Keeping DQ or not is irrelevant to me because even on this roster now he would still have been a liability. Not as big a liability as Robertson but still a problem. Keeping him somehow some way would have lessened to transition blow at the position but not sure if Dansby is coming in to do what DQ was expected to do....seeing who will play opposite him will be interesting.
We filled holes at RB, the Slot/WR2 (if Hawkins will be considered the #2), and ILB. We also filled a self-created hole in one day.
Hopefully more holes will be filled in the draft....finding a CB2 at #26 could move Skrine to the nickel. Finding a WR in the second round could allow us to address WR2 and the slot in one offseason. A guard in the second/third may address the RG position. So there is still a huge opportunity to address key positions.
However, I think at this point a position like FS may not be addressed fully to some fans' demands with high quality starters. Either the coaches/FO want to see more from the players on this roster, they recognize they can't do everything in one offseason, or will look to June cuts to fill the spots with vets.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Quote:
however wouldn't you consider it odd that they could get both Dansby and Whitley in here, but none of the G's or legit. CB's that were on the market?
Good Point, however if you noticed, both those guys are very Pro Cleveland and are excited to be here. Now maybe not all FA would turn us down, but maybe the ones who we think can fit the system is slim pickings. I don't know. I do feel however, that the FO is making a effort to better this Team and at the same time with a eye for the future with the cap. I like ya Pit, your a home town guy. You keep posting and I'll keep reading
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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1. you really have to get over yourself...gosh how many times have dawgs said that to me...lol 
2. This is not Madden or fantasy football. I don't think you really understand what FA is all about.
3. List...I don't do your work... you wish to make a list go ahead and we can discuss if its valid or not.
4. Top of my list was QB...then it bottomed out fast.
Needs: is probably subject to interpretation.
I believe we have a legit starter at each position. To me needs for FA are URGENT NEED HOLES.
Possibly one hole is ILB if we are going to show a lot of 3-4 formation. That is the only hole not filled.
I expect most "UPGRADES" which I am pretty sure in your MADDEN/FANTASY GM WORLD you make about 10 of these in FA and if we do not our GM is a failure.... 
But I expect upgrades to come from the draft.
D: Taylor, Rubin, Bryant, Bryant, Hughes, Winn, Kitchen DL starters and rotation.
OLB Kruger, Mingo, Sheard
ILB Dansby...only hole and expect investments from the draft. We might still get some 2nd tier FA signings.
CBs. Haden, Skrine
Safties, Gipson, Whitner
Offense:
QB Hoyer, RB Tate, TE Cameron HB (new guy) WR Gordon, Little, Hawkins.
OL JoeT, Grecco, Mack, Pinkston, Schwartz.
Sometimes you really bring good football to the table. But other times I really don't think you have a clue on what football is about. You study the internet maybe more than anyone on this board. So you know a lot - But you have to understand this. You suck as a GM 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,033
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,033 |
You do realize that Moore was a product of the Saints system right? You are lauding that signing yet downplaying Hawkins who is on the upside of his career while Moore - a product of NE's system - is on the downside of his career. That makes zero sense. You want to be upset that we didn't fill more holes, fine. But when you stretch to make your point it makes your griping seem disingenuine. You actually used Lance Moore to show the Browns haven't done a good job in FA.  I am literally blown away by that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Quote:
You do realize that Moore was a product of the Saints system right?
You can dismiss his 38 career TDs and over 300 passes and 4k yds caught as "product of the Saints system", but fact is that he was valued enough by said system to be with it for 9 (!!) seasons. That in itself is telling, he was re-signed at least twice. He IS a dependable, quality player. He wasn't re-signed because they finally found a replacement in Stills last draft. Moore survived several higher picks (Meachem) and FA signings they brought in for competition over the years. Why didn't THEY become "product of the system" if it was so easy? He beat them all. Maybe he simply had more ability. Sure, he may be on the decline, but so was the perception on Cotchery...remember? Another high value signing by the same team. Who had the better WR2 the past two seasons? We or the Steelers?
I don't hate Hawkins the player, in fact I like him and like his potential, but when your FO-motto is "right player at the right price", then I have to at least criticize the way players are being valued and the way the roster is build. It's bad value and it's not a coherent plan.
Hawkins makes 5.7mil next season. For that money, we could have signed Moore AND Asamoah. THAT'S my point...VALUE...
I'd rather have a proven Moore at slot WR and Asamoah at OG than a maybe slot WR in Hawkins and nothing at OG. It's bad business, bad roster management....simply bad value all around.
In other words: we bought high on Hawkins and the Steelers bought low on Moore. I'd be willing to bet that at the end of the year both will have similar numbers on a per snap basis. Both are prone to injury, but who took the bigger/lower risk here? You can disagree, but don't ridicule that I'm actually making an argument
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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