I would have hoped Bpg would have kept that stuff to himself rather than say things like "I have it on VERY good authority" I mean, now that you reminded me, I get it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
doug Williams had some game. Also don't forget McNair...excellent QB who lived up to his legendary college career.
In the bad list don't forget all the Intelligent pocket passing guys who just didn't make it.
RG3 is pretty intelligent why I really liked him - he was ruined in Washington, lets see if he can recover. Everyone forgets his rookie season and wish to site his 2nd season playing on one leg and state: "see"
Role reversal I guess Bridgewater is the intelligent pocket passer and Manziel the exciting make a play QB.
Btw have I mentioned Bridgewater is going to be the Overall #1 pick always has been always will.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
How can I get a job in the NFL? Looking at the history of the draft you just scratch your head. How can these "evaluators" miss so often. They have massive budgets. The technology available them is top of the line. They can look at almost every snap a player has taken. They can interview everyone who has had significant contact with the prospect. They can attend practice and games. They can watch the combine, and pro days. Then they can bring the in for a private workout.
How can they be that wrong so often?
The comments in this article about Bridgewater being comparable to Bryan Leftwich are ridiculous not even close. Leftwich was slow footed and had a really long delivery. He was never considered "brainy" at the position.
Bortles, outside of being bigger than Bridgewater tell me one thing he does better?
I sure hope Farmer is good at his new job because these so called "personnel executives" just sound clueless.
decent article, i disagree with the Bridgewater comparison to leftwich, Bridgewater gets rid of the ball pretty quick and that was Byron's achilles. Byron had a big arm and could sling it as good as anyone out there. Bridgewater has an Alex Smith type arm.
I do agree however that you dont pass on a stud to take a QB in this draft. There isnt a great deal of difference in any of them. All have serious questions. Bridgewater arm, accuracy, size. Carr toughness, lower body mechanics. Bortles accuracy, very raw. Manziel size, style of play, durability. Metlenberger lower body mechanics, duarbility. Garroppolo footwork, level of competition, upside. Murray size, durability. McCarron arm and upside.
Anyway I stand pat at 4 take my top rated player and then see what happens.
Quote: Here's the thing about all these pro days.... At least from what Farmer said. they are scripted. He said that he gets more out of having the guys come in or to go to them privately than he can out of a Pro Day.
I don't disagree, in part, with what Farmer said. They are scripted. That's why the agents for these prima donnas have them bypass doing the drills at the Combine. The fact that he didn't speak to Bridgewater (and some reports say he didn't watch him) and didn't schedule a workout with him says something to me. He did, after Bridgewater's pro day, speak to Bortles and scheduled a private workout with the Browns for him.
He has come out and said that they (nobody from the Browns) won't attend Manziel's pro day and hasn't spoken to him yet. There isn't any indication that he will speak to him.
I think some of you are missing the point BpG is making. Yes, Warren Moon was exactly that type of QB he is speaking of. However, he languished in Canada before getting a shot in the NFL.
Many of today's African American QBs are run first guys. It's getting better. Newton, RGIII, and Kap can all make plays in the passing game.
I will argue that Russell Wilson is as much of a thinking man's QB as any QB in the league.
Teddy compares favorably to guys like Manning, Brees, Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, and Ben. That is, he is football smart. Some of the articles that I posted earlier in the year said that Teddy was most like Rodgers. Others compared his mental game to P. Manning.
Guys like Mourg prefer tall QBs. Guys w/huge arms. I prefer intelligent QBs who can read defenses and coverages and have the guts to stand in and deliver the ball.
GMs differ in their opinions, as well. That is why you see a Wilson lasting to the 3rd round. A Brady dropping the the sixth. A Rodgers dropping to 22. And that is also why you see guys like Weeden, J. Russell, Gabbert, Sanchez, etc being overvalued.
Oh, and BpG is certainly right about why Timid was chosen first overall.
Quote: I know this is going to come off as kind of racist but here goes. I've always been against drafting black quarterbacks, because by and large they have been "run first" type of guys, not unlike Johnny Manziel. This is the first time I can remember a black QB coming out in the draft (top of the draft) that was a pre snap read, pro style coverage reading quarterback. I mean how many of them are even in the league right now? Russell Wilson? Beyond that you have the run first guys trying to acclimate to the NFL, Kapernick, Newton, Griffin etc.
This is the exact type of thinking that put Moon in Canada.
He said, "This is the first time I can remember a black QB coming out in the draft (top of the draft) that was a pre snap read, pro style coverage reading quarterback."
I named numerous players that fit that category with Andre Ware being the most prominent.
Also, what does being black have to do with anything? What year is this?
The point is that Teddy not only has the ability buy time in the pocket and run because of his athleticism, but he is much more than that because he is one of the most football intelligent QBs to come out in years.
This kid played in a pro style offense. It's a huge plus. His coaches said he was actively involved in the game plans. They said they were amazed at what he understood.
Teddy can read defenses pre-snap. They gave him two plays. He picked one at the LOS.
He can read coverages post-snap. He goes through the progressions. He exploits coverages.
He throws w/anticipation.
He recognizes blitzes from his film study. He exploits the blitz w/subtle moves in the pocket and then throwing to the area that was vacated by the blitzing defender.
Now, I fully get that we can argue about which African American QBs were cerebral and who were not. We can argue about the guys who made it w/their legs and those who made it w/their arms.
Who cares?
To me, the point is this...........................Teddy Bridgewater can beat you w/his intelligence, arm, and athleticism. And his greatest attribute is his football intelligence. Fortunately, his physical skill set does not prevent his football intelligence from being a huge factor.
What you said makes sense. I just don't get how you get that out of this:
Quote: I know this is going to come off as kind of racist but here goes. I've always been against drafting black quarterbacks, because by and large they have been "run first" type of guys, not unlike Johnny Manziel. This is the first time I can remember a black QB coming out in the draft (top of the draft) that was a pre snap read, pro style coverage reading quarterback. I mean how many of them are even in the league right now? Russell Wilson? Beyond that you have the run first guys trying to acclimate to the NFL, Kapernick, Newton, Griffin etc.
Look man, I am a bottom line guy. I was like that when I coached. I was like that when I owned my businesses. I am like that as a teacher. I want to get to what is most important.
I love a multitude of ideas. They spark debate. They make one become creative. I don't want to get hung up one aspect. I want to concentrate on the end result. What's best for the team, the classroom, the company, the organization, etc.
So, what is important here? The term racist? The fact that Moon was a classic QB? The fact that prejudice is thankfully not as strong as it used to be? The fact that it still exists?
Nah.............not for me. This is a Cleveland Browns football message board. What's best for the Browns? That is the essential question. I should say, that is the essential question in my mind.
I don't really care if Culpepper was an arm qb. I don't care if RGIII is a running qb. I don't really care about if Moon was discriminated against [more on that one later]. What I care about is if Teddy is the right QB for us or not. That is "the point."
Now, does that make sense?
Btw--------------I really do care about Moon being shafted. It bothers me. I married a minority. She is Hispanic. Brilliant woman. Came from dirt. She is an Anesthetist. Makes over $300,000 a year. This also means both my children qualify as minorities. Make no mistake.............I do care about guys like Moon, but in regards to this conversation...............I don't care.
Now, does that make sense? And no, I am not being sarcastic. To me, it's all about Teddy's brains.
Look man, I am a bottom line guy. I was like that when I coached. I was like that when I owned my businesses. I am like that as a teacher. I want to get to what is most important.
I love a multitude of ideas. They spark debate. They make one become creative. I don't want to get hung up one aspect. I want to concentrate on the end result. What's best for the team, the classroom, the company, the organization, etc.
So, what is important here? The term racist? The fact that Moon was a classic QB? The fact that prejudice is thankfully not as strong as it used to be? The fact that it still exists?
Nah.............not for me. This is a Cleveland Browns football message board. What's best for the Browns? That is the essential question. I should say, that is the essential question in my mind.
I don't really care if Culpepper was an arm qb. I don't care if RGIII is a running qb. I don't really care about if Moon was discriminated against [more on that one later]. What I care about is if Teddy is the right QB for us or not. That is "the point."
Now, does that make sense?
Btw--------------I really do care about Moon being shafted. It bothers me. I married a minority. She is Hispanic. Brilliant woman. Came from dirt. She is an Anesthetist. Makes over $300,000 a year. This also means both my children qualify as minorities. Make no mistake.............I do care about guys like Moon, but in regards to this conversation...............I don't care.
Now, does that make sense? And no, I am not being sarcastic. To me, it's all about Teddy's brains.
While you guys continue your black vs. white BS.
Did you see Gruden's Camp with Teddy B yesterday? Watch it. Great stuff.
He gets CRUSHED on the 1st play of the Florida game and gets up. PISSED OFF in his words then SMOKES Florida the rest of the way. That was 15 in the NFL every time. Blow to the head.
Then comes the chalkboard. Just LISTEN to what TB says and goes thru.
Quote: He loved Modell and he went with the Browns to the ravenswhen they left. He never worked for another owner besides Modell. We tried to get Ozzie here more than once and it did not work because of his loyalty to Art.
I agree. I don't remember there ever being any chance of keeping Ozzie in Cleveland. He worked for Art and moved with he team. By the time we came back Ozzie was entrenched in Balt.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Oh, it's a 4 minute promo. I'll try to find the longer version.
I challenge anyone to watch that interview.
Then go watch Brandon Weedens interview. I can't even fathom how people thought that guy was a first round pick. Bridgewater is ready.
On another note, it's amazing how the hype machine works. With Bridgewaters interview in mind, the Manziel interview was almost 100% about running around and being on Jay Leno. Extremely unfair to Johnny Manziel.
Quote: Who would have thought you could learn so much about a quarterback by simply taking the defense off the field? Last week, top quarterback prospects Teddy Bridgewater and Blake Bortles each went through their respective pro day workouts. It’s hard to imagine the two events producing a more different set of opinions. Bridgewater’s pro day was a fiasco, with the Louisville product struggling with deeper throws and managing to complete just 57 of the 65 passes he attempted.1 Bortles’s pro day, meanwhile, conjured all the right adjectives. Impressive. Solid. Bortles’s strong pitch might very well be the final piece of the puzzle he needed to rise to the top of this year’s quarterback class.
That’s no surprise. The entire pre-draft process — but most notably the pro day quarterback workout — is designed to make guys like Bortles look good while hiding the strengths of a player like Bridgewater. It plays up physical tools at the expense of actual football skills. The tools help, but you need the skills to succeed. And Bortles might very well be a better quarterback than Bridgewater when all is said and done, but I strongly doubt what happened last week gives us any reliable data on whether that’s the case.
Most elite college quarterback prospects these days opt out of the NFL scouting combine in favor of their own pro day, and it’s easy to understand why. A pro day allows a quarterback to throw in the settings and surroundings of his (and his team of handlers’) choosing. The passer can pick the receivers he’ll be throwing to and the drills he’ll run. Most important, though, each pro day is built around a scripted passing regimen customized to show off the quarterback’s respective strengths (with some marginal lip service paid to addressing his weaknesses). The quarterback can prepare for weeks to run this exact script, and since pro days occur much later than the combine, he even gets an extra month to prepare. It’s the pink slime of sports: There’s something vaguely resembling football in there, but it shouldn’t be taken as a satisfying substitute for the real thing.
Unmolested in the pocket and with no coverage to read, superior athletes are going to stand out. A passer with spectacular arm strength will have all the time he needs to loft throws downfield. Fluid, mobile quarterbacks reliably show off the footwork they’ve been drilling for weeks with ease. Players who just look like they’re quarterbacks have no better canvas for their skills than a pro day. And that’s exactly the sort of prospect Bortles appears to be. While he’s certainly not without merit, his rise up the quarterback rankings this offseason has been driven by his prototypical size and above-average arm strength. He’s seen as a raw talent that the right coach could mold into a superstar. For raw talents like JaMarcus Russell, whose workout was described by Jon Gruden at the time as “Star Wars,”2 the pro day is ice.
There is something crucial that a pro day doesn’t measure, though. (And no, it’s not heart.) More and more, when I go back through recent history and look at the first-round quarterbacks who failed to live up to expectations, I notice how frequently the problem of making accurate throws while handling a professional pass rush seems to come up. It’s not just that this isn’t tested during any of the pre-draft rituals, it’s that it’s thrown out the window and replaced with what might very well be false information. A quarterback shows effective footwork after weeks of drilling for a pro day, only to immediately lose that footwork and resort to bad habits once Aldon Smith or Robert Mathis starts bearing down on him.
Think about recently failed quarterback prospects and, chances are, you’ll come across a guy who had a good pro day and struggled to stay accurate under pressure. Russell is just one classic example. Blaine Gabbert had a wonderful pro day.3 Jake Locker was 40-for-42 versus air during his highly regarded performance. Samesies for Brandon Weeden and Mark Sanchez. Even Alex Smith wowed coaches with his transition from a spread offense during his pro day, a performance that very well might have pushed him ahead of Aaron Rodgers on the 49ers’ draft board. In each case, these quarterbacks struggled to handle professional pass rushes, leading to inaccuracy, higher sack rates, larger risks of injuries, and (considering Smith’s draft status) disappointing professional careers.
Now, guess what Bridgewater’s best skill is? Football Outsiders’ Matt Waldman noted, to nobody’s surprise, that it’s his preternatural ability to remain composed in the pocket and make accurate throws against pressure! He’s not a freak athlete by any stretch of the imagination, but Bridgewater’s feel for the position allows him to efficiently use his feet to elude pressure long enough to create a throwing lane and make an accurate pass. Bortles hasn’t consistently exhibited that skill. He might be the sort of athlete who can get himself out of trouble. Bridgewater’s the kind of quarterback who can avoid getting himself into trouble.
The rest of Bridgewater’s skills also show up in the fall as opposed to the spring. I’ve stolen the baseball pitching concepts of command and control in the past, and Bridgewater’s a great example of a passer who can do both. Not only does he have the functional accuracy to make catchable throws to his targets, he also has the veteran wherewithal and anticipation necessary to put passes in the exact spots his receivers would like them most. He makes the right reads at the line to set his protections and run the best possible play. He also reads the full field on every play.
For all that, though, his stock has slipped some during this process, a slide that will hardly be arrested by this poor pro day. His hands might be too small. He weighs only 214 pounds.4 While his arm strength on short and intermediate throws is regarded as above-average, there are questions about his accuracy on truly deep passes, the sorts of throws Joe Flacco and Matthew Stafford can make with ease. And after hearing for perpetuity that numbers are rendered useless by their inability to measure a player’s heart or intangibles, I find it interesting to see a player regarded as a superb team leader and tape junkie slip during February and March. Shouldn’t this be the time when scouts use their nuance and intuition to tease out those signs of leadership and respect? Why are they falling for arm strength instead?
Some teams will take Bridgewater’s poor pro day, see it as a sign of poor preparation, and move him down their draft boards. It’s the easy thing to do. It will take courage and conviction for a team at the top of the draft like Jacksonville or Oakland to look past Bridgewater’s bad day to draft the guy who looked like he was the best quarterback prospect on most fall Saturdays during the past two years. And even then, that team might be wrong; it may very well turn out that the process correctly reveals Bortles to be a better option than Bridgewater. But I’m very suspicious that the process isn’t asking — or answering — the questions an NFL team should be interested in.
Good article on Bridgewater/Bortles. Click the link for footnotes and links within the article.
The one issue I havehad with Bridgewater is the amount of air he puts under all of his throws. You can do that in a dome but you cant do that in the AFC North in Nov and Dec. It is why Andy dalton is a top top 10 QB in sept and oct and a bottom 5 QB in Nov, dec and Jan.
If I am the Jags or Texans I would strongly consider Teddy. I just dont know what kind of value I could put on him for the bad weather browns. touch thrower with a ton of air under the ball just isnt a good choice for this team.
You dont have to have a great arm but you need a capable arm.
Quote: The one issue I havehad with Bridgewater is the amount of air he puts under all of his throws. You can do that in a dome but you cant do that in the AFC North in Nov and Dec. It is why Andy dalton is a top top 10 QB in sept and oct and a bottom 5 QB in Nov, dec and Jan.
If I am the Jags or Texans I would strongly consider Teddy. I just dont know what kind of value I could put on him for the bad weather browns. touch thrower with a ton of air under the ball just isnt a good choice for this team.
You dont have to have a great arm but you need a capable arm.
I have a question for you, I really hope it can add to the conversation and just asking for comparison.
How do you compare Teddy to Bernie Kosar? And I don't mean their mobility (considering Bernie would take about 20 steps to make it 2 yards), play reading, etc but what I mean is....Arm strength.
Now I was a kid to mid-teen when Bernie played, so you know how memories can be. But do you think their arm strength is comparable or not?
Also I know another factor is stadiums...I never thought about stuff like that when I was a kid, plus I was too in awe at seeing Bernie, Oz, etc..playing against Eric Dickerson. So I really don't remember besides remembering it was really cold! Do you happen to remember the difference of Old CB stadium compared to First Energy? I've been to a few games at First Energy and remembering Dawson's old interviews about how the wind is very swirling....do you think there is a big difference?
May sound goofy, but you (Mourg) brought up the amount of air Teddy puts in his throws and first thing I thought of was Bernie throwing one of his sidearm bombs to Webster.
We've had a ton of guys with Rocket arms on our team in the past 15 years, none of which could play quarterback. Our most exciting option at QB in over 7 years? A noodle arm local kid named Brian Hoyer.
Bernie had a pretty good arm early on in his career but he also threw the ball on a line with that low trajectory side arm delivery. He threw some wobblers thats for sure but I felt Bernie understood how to get the ball to the right place in bad conditions if that makes sense.
Near the end his arm had lost a lot of steam and it is why Belly wanted to go another direction.
Now Teddy has very similar football intelligence compared to Bernie. He knows where to go with the ball. He puts so much air under the ball it is a concern.
Yes I know BpG, Teddy is my top pick that I want too. Enjoying reading the articles and videos everyone keeps posting about him. Just was a random question, considering some are bringing up the cold weather.
Now Teddy has very similar football intelligence compared to Bernie. He knows where to go with the ball. He puts so much air under the ball it is a concern.
Now, that is probably the highest, and clearest, praise I've seen of Bridgewater's football acumen. IF this is true, this is saying a LOT.
The arm strength & floating thing, however, has me thinking more along the lines of nightmarish comparisons to Ken Dorsey. PLEASE tell me he has more arm than Ken Dorsey.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Now Teddy has very similar football intelligence compared to Bernie. He knows where to go with the ball. He puts so much air under the ball it is a concern.
Now, that is probably the highest, and clearest, praise I've seen of Bridgewater's football acumen. IF this is true, this is saying a LOT.
The arm strength & floating thing, however, has me thinking more along the lines of nightmarish comparisons to Ken Dorsey. PLEASE tell me he has more arm than Ken Dorsey.
That's the first person I think of when I read about AJ McCarron. Wins, Qb smart, below avg arm
I dont know if he does and that is the fear factor with this kid. Pro days are where you show off your arm and pushing the ball on a simple out route is alarming. When you are trying to stick it on a 10 yard out and its wobbling and you are throwing inside, what is that ball gonna do when that cold moist air is blasting off the lake?
Quote: We've had a ton of guys with Rocket arms on our team in the past 15 years, none of which could play quarterback. Our most exciting option at QB in over 7 years? A noodle arm local kid named Brian Hoyer.
+1
This is why the only QB I would like us to take in the 1st round is Bridgewater, and why I wouldn't even mind not taking a QB in the 1st round and drafting a Grappollo. Murray or McCarron later on.
I admit with the drafting of Quinn and Weeden I am gun-shy of drafting a strong armed QB (or a noodle arm with no football brain like Colt). They may have the physical tools, but I want a football brain behind it. Its been yrs since I have seen a Browns QB change the play at the line.
Quote: I dont know if he does and that is the fear factor with this kid. Pro days are where you show off your arm and pushing the ball on a simple out route is alarming. When you are trying to stick it on a 10 yard out and its wobbling and you are throwing inside, what is that ball gonna do when that cold moist air is blasting off the lake?
It's not that weak (there are two videos, but embedding doesn't seem to work if I add a time stamp):
His arm strength is average for NFL QBs, maybe a tid below average for starting NFL QBs - but it's better than Drew Brees, it's better than Current Peyton Manning.
Quote: We've had a ton of guys with Rocket arms on our team in the past 15 years, none of which could play quarterback. Our most exciting option at QB in over 7 years? A noodle arm local kid named Brian Hoyer.
+1
This is why the only QB I would like us to take in the 1st round is Bridgewater, and why I wouldn't even mind not taking a QB in the 1st round and drafting a Grappollo. Murray or McCarron later on.
I admit with the drafting of Quinn and Weeden I am gun-shy of drafting a strong armed QB (or a noodle arm with no football brain like Colt). They may have the physical tools, but I want a football brain behind it. Its been yrs since I have seen a Browns QB change the play at the line.
Its time to draft a football smart QB.
Actually, McCoy was a pretty football savvy kid. He just, as it turned out, lacked the physical tools.. Too bad, he was a good kid..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I won't be upset if we draft Teddy but I worry about Warm weather QBs playing in Cleveland. I know Bernie played at Miami buy he grew up in Youngstown. Can anybody tell me how many warm weather QBs with small hands and not great arms made it in cold weather cities?.......with outdoor stadiums?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
