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Yep, it's a serious question. I don't know why he doesn't like Teddy, don't really care.
I've read a lot of guys who played the game at the NFL level and/or study tape for a living who have serious reservations about Teddy but when they bring them up, they are just blowhards who are after hits on their websites so their very informed opinions are quickly dismissed...
So somebody who doesn't study film has his criticisms of Teddy dismissed because he didn't do the film study...
The guy who did do the film study has his criticisms dismissed because he must have some ulterior motive...
The guy who watched some games and says Teddy just doesn't pass his eye test has his opinion dismissed because he hasn't looked at the stats...
The guy who posts another QBs stats and they look similar to Teddy's just doesn't understand the style of offense or the level of competition...
Basically you are going to dismiss anybody who raises any concerns at all about Teddy Bridgewater... we all get it.
It all comes out on the film. There is a reason that film study is such an important part of the game. The only reason the combine is even a thing is (IMO) to help guys who don't have a lot of film, show how they stack up against guys who got a lot of film time. There is a reason these scouts go an watch games versus just drafting off stats and measurable. It matters more than anything else when evaluating players.
It's black and white, there is no slant like stats have. There are some questions about Bridgewater in my mind, doesn't have elite arm strength and isn't the biggest guy. Other than that, his mastery of pre snap, progressions and reading coverages is second to none in this draft. The only way you could possibly evaluate something like that is watching the games. If you have watched the games and can provide specific examples of his deficiencies, I would be able to see what you're saying. I might not agree but I could see exactly what you're talking about it.
I've done it a number of times, with guys like Mettenberger, Manziel, Murray and Carr. Honestly I stopped doing them because no one else seems to be interested in debating it, in that draft review thread. Telling me a 1st round QB is going to be a bust with absolutely no specific examples, is just playing the odds. It's gambling when 60% of the time you'll win, it means nothing.
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Say it to his face.
You got a shovel? 
yebat' Putin
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I think Teddy is slow to go through progessions.
I have a question, because I have only seen highlight type videos, which never tell the whole story ....... but from what I have seen, and read, it seems like Bridgewater's greatest strength, and the area in which he stands above the rest of the pack at QB, is in his rapid processing of what he sees on the field. Someone put up a stat that said that he was far superior when facing a blitz, completing over 50% of his passes against a 5 man blitz. I don't think that you do that without having the ability to rapidly process what you see.
Can you tell me why you feel that the contrary is true instead? I am not set on any player in the top of this draft, and am willing to be convinced.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree with everyone who says he reads the defense well pre-snap.
He's able to recognize the blitz and attack it.
My question comes from when he has to actually go through progressions. It's a slow process as the play is developing.
I think he'll struggle with reading a zone defense.
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or Sammy 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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... no one else seems to be interested in debating it...
I'm not interested (nor competent) in debating Bridgewater, but I'll pose a question to you: What QB would we get? The Bridgewater off the tape, or the Bridgewater from his "pro day"/workouts (if reported accurately)?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Since Bridgewater played excellent and nobody wears shorts in NFL games, I'd say we get the Bridgewater that plays in games. I really don't care how well he practices.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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That's still a pretty big gamble with a high first round pick... a guy that can't even look good in a practice that he was allowed to choreograph to show off his strengths.
yebat' Putin
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Since Bridgewater played excellent and nobody wears shorts in NFL games, I'd say we get the Bridgewater that plays in games.
I really don't care how well he practices.
OK, but you are assuming (or ruling out) that his recent poor performance(s) are a non-factor, that there is no unreported injury or other issue...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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... no one else seems to be interested in debating it...
I'm not interested (nor competent) in debating Bridgewater, but I'll pose a question to you: What QB would we get? The Bridgewater off the tape, or the Bridgewater from his "pro day"/workouts (if reported accurately)?
I'll answer your question with a question.
How would you want to evaluate your franchise QB, off game film or a workout in shorts? Weeden would be the new Tom Brady. It's not an exact science, but I'll take a guy throwing ducks all over the field that can manage and manipulate a defense over a guy throwing lasers in shorts any day. JMO
I've disregarded entire websites for their evaluations on Logan Thomas and how he is a very nice prospect. When I turn on the Duke game, I can't imagine how he even gets drafted. But hey, he's 6'6, has a strong arm and looks great in shorts.
I'm not saying he WON'T be the guy we everyone saw at the pro day, what I am saying is that I'll take two seasons in pads for proof over one day in shorts. We can't afford to pass on a guy with such a high ceiling at QB for another WR or trade down and take a corner back. It's just nonsense.
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That's still a pretty big gamble with a high first round pick... a guy that can't even look good in a practice that he was allowed to choreograph to show off his strengths.
QB is the most important position in any professional sport. It's worth the risk.
Even if it's Manziel or Bortles, it's worth the risk.
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Sheesh................I can't believe you guys are accepting all his BS.
I don't accept his BS any more than I accept yours.. I've just said that he has a right to have an opinion. If he wants to call it "facts".. oh well.
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And in the off chance hie is right, he will say, "I told you so" for years. If he is wrong, it will be forgotten.
Kind of like everybody else...
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He won't even study game tape or breakdowns.
Is this a requirement to having an opinion?
But my BS is so much tastier than Versatile's BS. It's also NEW & IMPROVED and guaranteed fresh. 
If Bridgewater is a bust (and I think he will be) we'll hear crickets from those that want us to draft him. Frankly, I won't care enough to say, "I told you so." I could do that now for a number of current NFL players (including QBs).
And I've viewed game tape. I could state the same observations made by others, but what would be the point? They've already said it. I find it funny that any criticism of Bridgewater is met with the 'watch the tape' meme. Maybe one of you more qualified (and with more time on your hands) folks can put up a picture of Bridgewater with the caption "Just watch the game tape".
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...what I am saying is that I'll take two seasons in pads for proof over one day in shorts
I understand and respect that, BpG, but nobody seems to want to address the reason for his recent poor performances. What if he is damaged goods (and I'm not saying he is)?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Yep, it's a serious question. I don't know why he doesn't like Teddy, don't really care.
I've read a lot of guys who played the game at the NFL level and/or study tape for a living who have serious reservations about Teddy but when they bring them up, they are just blowhards who are after hits on their websites so their very informed opinions are quickly dismissed...
So somebody who doesn't study film has his criticisms of Teddy dismissed because he didn't do the film study...
The guy who did do the film study has his criticisms dismissed because he must have some ulterior motive...
The guy who watched some games and says Teddy just doesn't pass his eye test has his opinion dismissed because he hasn't looked at the stats...
The guy who posts another QBs stats and they look similar to Teddy's just doesn't understand the style of offense or the level of competition...
Basically you are going to dismiss anybody who raises any concerns at all about Teddy Bridgewater... we all get it.
That about sums things up... and you can determine why I used the term 'boyfriend' to describe people like Versatile.
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Anarchy's act isn't the only one that's getting old around here.
My BS is fresh and hot. Didn't you get the memo? I use only the finest ingredients.
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If Bridgewater is a bust ...
While I wouldn't go to that extreme, I have concerns that he is not draftable on Day One. Until I understood the reasons for his recent lack of performance, I'm not on board with Teddy. If he could show that the player you get is the guy on tape, then fine, I'll reconsider. I'm not against Teddy for, as Vers, BpG, Pit, and Bonefish have pointed out, he has many fine points in his favor. I just need to know more...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I've disregarded entire websites for their evaluations on Logan Thomas and how he is a very nice prospect. When I turn on the Duke game, I can't imagine how he even gets drafted. But hey, he's 6'6, has a strong arm and looks great in shorts.
He was terrible in that Duke game, for sure. He was actually a lot better in the other cut-ups I saw of him besides that game... pretty sure I watched five of him. I went into it thinking he was going to be really bad. Thing about Thomas is that he's actually not bad if he's in the pocket and feet set. Very good accuracy and placement and not many bad decisions. He's very bad throwing on the move though. But for whatever reason, yeah, he was just awful in the Duke game.
Last edited by clevesteve; 04/15/14 01:45 PM.
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...what I am saying is that I'll take two seasons in pads for proof over one day in shorts
I understand and respect that, BpG, but nobody seems to want to address the reason for his recent poor performances. What if he is damaged goods (and I'm not saying he is)?
I am not denying it was a poor showing. How could he have possibly gotten that damaged (Barring some degenerative bone/health disorder) in a few months in his early 20's? If he is injured and not disclosing it, I would think SOMEONE would find out by now. It certainly is puzzling, no doubt, but those are questions I would ask him if I could. My guess is, it was something silly or medical, either way, I can't see him going from 1st over all material to 3rd round pick from a pro day.
Like I said, unless he has some undisclosed medical issue (broken wrist, arthritis? etc.)
I guess my question, is damaged how? Right? How did he get so damaged from his last few games to now? My guess is, he isn't.
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Thanks for your input. You have been the only one to address that since it was first brought up a couple of weeks ago...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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That's still a pretty big gamble with a high first round pick... a guy that can't even look good in a practice that he was allowed to choreograph to show off his strengths.
QB is the most important position in any professional sport. It's worth the risk.
Even if it's Manziel or Bortles, it's worth the risk.
I don't necessarily disagree, just not sure I want to take the risk at #4.
yebat' Putin
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Well let me tell you about Jaws opinion.
He just stated on ESPN he had Bridgewater rated the #1 QB in the draft based off his game tape. The reason he changed his mind was based on his Pro Day alone.
So for those who value pro days that much, I guess it means something. But if you're going to use Jaws opinion, it had nothing to do with Bridgewaters game tape evaluations.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Well let me tell you about Jaws opinion.
He just stated on ESPN he had Bridgewater rated the #1 QB in the draft based off his game tape. The reason he changed his mind was based on his Pro Day alone.
So for those who value pro days that much, I guess it means something. But if you're going to use Jaws opinion, it had nothing to do with Bridgewaters game tape evaluations.
I don't value pro days all that much except when there are circumstances in them that indicate a performance was horrible or extraordinary.
Bridgewater threw 65 passes at his pro day. Zach Mettenberger threw around 125 passes.
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Jaws also thought Manziel should go in the 5th round.. Until his Pro Day... No he's a 3-4th rounder.. 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I like Mettenburger and think he is a darkhorse selection for us at #26.
Big guy, big arm, big program. Coming off a ACL it makes perfect sense to not rush him and let Hoyer determine his fate. The guy is a good QB.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I can't keep going around posting the YouTube video of him picking his nose and eating it.. ..Or can I? 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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jc...
I DEFER TO...
...Ray Farmer, the GM
...Mike Pettine, the HC
...Kyle Shanahan, the OC
...Dowell Loggains, the QB coach
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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While we do disagree a great deal about Bridgewater. Well, I guess that's a bit of an understatement. I was simply trying to point out exactly what Jaws said the determining factor was for his current ranking of Bridgewater. I felt it was pertinent since his name and ranking of Bridgewater had been brought up in this very thread. Which if I'm understanding this correctly, would mean that your opinion of Bridgewater going into his pro day compared to Jaws were starkly different.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I like Mettenburger and think he is a darkhorse selection for us at #26.
Big guy, big arm, big program. Coming off a ACL it makes perfect sense to not rush him and let Hoyer determine his fate. The guy is a good QB.
I don't think that he is all that much of a dark horse anymore. I hope he's still available at #26 for us to get.
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While we do disagree a great deal about Bridgewater. Well, I guess that's a bit of an understatement.
I was simply trying to point out exactly what Jaws said the determining factor was for his current ranking of Bridgewater. I felt it was pertinent since his name and ranking of Bridgewater had been brought up in this very thread.
Which if I'm understanding this correctly, would mean that your opinion of Bridgewater going into his pro day compared to Jaws were starkly different.
Well, I never have liked Bridgewater from the beginning so there is that to consider.
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Yep, it's a serious question. I don't know why he doesn't like Teddy, don't really care.
I've read a lot of guys who played the game at the NFL level and/or study tape for a living who have serious reservations about Teddy but when they bring them up, they are just blowhards who are after hits on their websites so their very informed opinions are quickly dismissed...
So somebody who doesn't study film has his criticisms of Teddy dismissed because he didn't do the film study...
The guy who did do the film study has his criticisms dismissed because he must have some ulterior motive...
The guy who watched some games and says Teddy just doesn't pass his eye test has his opinion dismissed because he hasn't looked at the stats...
The guy who posts another QBs stats and they look similar to Teddy's just doesn't understand the style of offense or the level of competition...
Basically you are going to dismiss anybody who raises any concerns at all about Teddy Bridgewater... we all get it.
You don't get anything. However, I now get where you are coming from.
You don't like Teddy? Fine.
However, if you are defending a poster who simply didn't like Teddy because he was the highest rated QB before the season............well, I am not fine w/that. That is just stupid.
As to the rest of your BS...............it's not true, but keep up the running dialogue w/those who disagree w/my opinion.
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Oh I understand that and the point was more to those who was using Jaws reference as a jumping off point.
I just felt for the thread in general that it may be helpful for posters to know how he arrived at his conclusion. As I alluded to before, some put stock in the pro day workouts and some don't.
I believe if one is going to point to his conclusion as a point of reference, knowing how he arrived at that conclusion may be helpful to some.
We certainly see Bridgewater on two different ends of the spectrum. I don't really have an issue with that. Posters often have very different views on players and potential draft picks. Kind of what keeps things interesting.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Oh I understand that and the point was more to those who was using Jaws reference as a jumping off point.
I just felt for the thread in general that it may be helpful for posters to know how he arrived at his conclusion. As I alluded to before, some put stock in the pro day workouts and some don't.
I believe if one is going to point to his conclusion as a point of reference, knowing how he arrived at that conclusion may be helpful to some.
We certainly see Bridgewater on two different ends of the spectrum. I don't really have an issue with that. Posters often have very different views on players and potential draft picks. Kind of what keeps things interesting.
Well, Jaworski has some insights as someone that played the position. It's a bit of a different animal today, but some of the characteristics of QBs will always remain the same, so he'll have some value in regards to that. Even those that have played the position won't agree on players they're evaluating. Scouts and professional GMs won't either.
Different opinions are what keep thing interesting and entertaining, that's for sure. We'll have to see how things pan out in the draft and then wait for the results in a little while. Of course, it may take a few years (Alex Smith) or it may be a short timeframe needed to make the evaluation (Brandon Weeden).
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I'll just leave this here.. Quote:
Jaws, cycling through his annual quarterback rankings, watched every one of Weeden's throws from 2012 and came away impressed, going so far as to say the 29-year-old passer "will be a rock-solid NFL starter in Norv Turner's offense,"
"For a rookie, Weeden showed uncommon poise and calm in the pocket," said Jaworski, who called Weeden's mechanics "consistently solid" and touted the quarterback's ability to "sit on his back foot and drive the ball with velocity."
Not everyone's perfect.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I may be just the "average Joe" out there, watching ESPN, (at times swallowing their drivel as gospel, a la Ron Jaworski), but I do not get a true sense of what the Browns are "really " trying to accomplish with this draft. Yes, I have my doubts that a totally new front office can reap the appropriate "harvest of gems" in the upcoming draft, which by many is considered to be a truly "once in a generation" draft day opportunity, but even the talking heads rarely mention the Browns picking one of the Top Five Quarterback options out there, so what gives?... Are all of the options, i.e, Bridgewater, Bortles, Karr, e.g., actually dog meat? (And I don't mean Dawg Meat.) Or is there a "sleeper " pick out there? Just wonderin'....
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I may be just the "average Joe" out there, watching ESPN, (at times swallowing their drivel as gospel, a la Ron Jaworski)
We're all Average Joe's here. Some just put in a little more time than others...
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but I do not get a true sense of what the Browns are "really " trying to accomplish with this draft.
IMO, This is the draft that will define the Browns for the next 5-10 years. Weather we surge forward or go back to be "the same ol Browns"
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Yes, I have my doubts that a totally new front office can reap the appropriate "harvest of gems" in the upcoming draft
Don't forget that Farmer has been here this whole time, he's not "behind" like your usual brand new GM would be.
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which by many is considered to be a truly "once in a generation" draft day opportunity
This is a VERY deep draft, deepest in a long while..
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but even the talking heads rarely mention the Browns picking one of the Top Five Quarterback options out there, so what gives?... Are all of the options, i.e, Bridgewater, Bortles, Karr, e.g., actually dog meat? (And I don't mean Dawg Meat.) Or is there a "sleeper " pick out there? Just wonderin'....
The Browns have been VERY good this year at not really tipping their hand, to the point I think it's annoying the non Cleveland media.
Each QB this year has their ups and downs. Down the road we might find that someone drafted in the 3-4th round turns out better than someone drafted in the 1st. But that's always hypothetical, different situations and whatnot.
I think whomever we draft, as long as we start him when he's ready, and give him the right amount of time to prepare, and the right amount of time to flourish, he will be good.
JMHO
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Well let me tell you about Jaws opinion.
He just stated on ESPN he had Bridgewater rated the #1 QB in the draft based off his game tape. The reason he changed his mind was based on his Pro Day alone.
So for those who value pro days that much, I guess it means something. But if you're going to use Jaws opinion, it had nothing to do with Bridgewaters game tape evaluations.
Yeah I was shocked when I heard Jaws say that.
Love his film breakdown on Sunday mornings.
We have 2 choices here. Pull the damn trigger and attach the wagon to Bridgewater, Bortles or Manziel at 4. OR wait yet again for the 2nd tier BS and hope like hell they become something that they AREN'T right now in Carr, Garoppolo or Mettenburger.
And god forbid we wait around for a Noodle Arm like Murray.
GROW SOME and get the damn QB in here that will immediately turn this thing around.
As much as I want Fuller opposite Haden at 26, I'd be more than ecstatic with a Bridgewater, Mathews, Yankey 1-2-3.
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I'll just leave this here..
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Jaws, cycling through his annual quarterback rankings, watched every one of Weeden's throws from 2012 and came away impressed, going so far as to say the 29-year-old passer "will be a rock-solid NFL starter in Norv Turner's offense,"
"For a rookie, Weeden showed uncommon poise and calm in the pocket," said Jaworski, who called Weeden's mechanics "consistently solid" and touted the quarterback's ability to "sit on his back foot and drive the ball with velocity."
Not everyone's perfect.
Well, from what I've heard and read from Bernie, he also liked Weeden.
I never liked Weeden either. But what do I know.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Farmer expressed something a long time ago. There was one QB that has stood out for him and who they will target. He then put some yaba dabe doo in there about it might not be who we expect it to be.
My point is - if that is true. There is a guy he is sold on as THE GUY for us. He will not risk the chance of that QB being available at 26. Whoever it is he will take them at #4.
jmho of what is the plan
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
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I may be just the "average Joe" out there, watching ESPN, (at times swallowing their drivel as gospel, a la Ron Jaworski), but I do not get a true sense of what the Browns are "really " trying to accomplish with this draft. Yes, I have my doubts that a totally new front office can reap the appropriate "harvest of gems" in the upcoming draft, which by many is considered to be a truly "once in a generation" draft day opportunity, but even the talking heads rarely mention the Browns picking one of the Top Five Quarterback options out there, so what gives?... Are all of the options, i.e, Bridgewater, Bortles, Karr, e.g., actually dog meat? (And I don't mean Dawg Meat.) Or is there a "sleeper " pick out there? Just wonderin'....
Who are you considering in the Top 5? Bridgewater, Bortles, Carr, Manziel... but who is the fifth?
They may seriously be considering someone that isn't being discussed. I like a number of them that are generally considered in the 'second tier' and even the ones in the 'third tier'.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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You don't like Teddy? Fine.
I have mixed feelings about Teddy. Heck I have mixed feelings about all of the QBs in this draft. I actually wish I could fall in love with one of them and really want them at #4 but I can't.
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However, if you are defending a poster who simply didn't like Teddy because he was the highest rated QB before the season............well, I am not fine w/that. That is just stupid.
Ok, I was just defending his right to have an opinion even though he doesn't study game film.
yebat' Putin
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 Teddy Bridgewater Redux
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