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Really? 10 votes across the country per year is what's robbing the people of their voice? It's not the PACs and SuperPACs? Just those 10 votes? Alright, then.
10? You must not have read the story I posted.
Elections Director Kim Strach told state lawmakers at an oversight hearing Wednesday that her staff has identified 765 registered North Carolina voters who appear to have cast ballots in two states during the 2012 presidential election.
Additionally, election officials discovered 81 residents who died before election day but cast a ballot nonetheless.
That's far more than 10, and those are the one's they know of. You're talking convictions. I'm talking about the amount of vote stealing that never gets convicted. There is far more of it than most people believe, and voter ID is the first step in stopping it.
so...not limiting campaign funds, changing the voting system that way electorate college isn't the true way of determining the presidential election, but.....voter fraud must be the first step?
ok.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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so...not limiting campaign funds, changing the voting system that way electorate college isn't the true way of determining the presidential election, but.....voter fraud must be the first step?
ok.
And what changes are you wanting to make?
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Legend
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imo,
we need to get rid of unlimited reelections in congress. 2 terms max, or one long 8 year term, and you're out.
maybe even make the presidency one long term, 6 years-7 years, and he's gone.
then, i would limit campaign funds to a set amount across the board. i'm tired of seeing some people win simply because they have more funds to campaign, and it would limit some corruption in politics from companies simply buying their politicians.
voter fraud is a problem, but its the least of our worries in the grand scheme of things. the amount of voter fraud going on is almost non existent compared to the real problems in politics.
we need to stop putting bandaids on issues and fix the overall flawed system.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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imo,
we need to get rid of unlimited reelections in congress. 2 terms max, or one long 8 year term, and you're out.
maybe even make the presidency one long term, 6 years-7 years, and he's gone.
then, i would limit campaign funds to a set amount across the board. i'm tired of seeing some people win simply because they have more funds to campaign, and it would limit some corruption in politics from companies simply buying their politicians.
voter fraud is a problem, but its the least of our worries in the grand scheme of things. the amount of voter fraud going on is almost non existent compared to the real problems in politics.
we need to stop putting bandaids on issues and fix the overall flawed system.
The sad hing about term limits, and I agree with your approach for congress and President, is that ths is one area that just about anyone outside of those in DC can agree with regardless of political beliefs. Doubtful it will ever change, but limiting these clowns to not make a career out of congress would be nice.
#gmstrong
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Again, no conviction so this is just shop talk. Even if we say that all convicted voter ID laws is just 1/100 of the total (which is extremely lenient towards your argument), we're still only dealing with <1500 votes per year. That will change no federal election nor state.
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imo,
we need to get rid of unlimited reelections in congress. 2 terms max, or one long 8 year term, and you're out.
maybe even make the presidency one long term, 6 years-7 years, and he's gone.
then, i would limit campaign funds to a set amount across the board. i'm tired of seeing some people win simply because they have more funds to campaign, and it would limit some corruption in politics from companies simply buying their politicians.
voter fraud is a problem, but its the least of our worries in the grand scheme of things. the amount of voter fraud going on is almost non existent compared to the real problems in politics.
we need to stop putting bandaids on issues and fix the overall flawed system.
The sad hing about term limits, and I agree with your approach for congress and President, is that ths is one area that just about anyone outside of those in DC can agree with regardless of political beliefs. Doubtful it will ever change, but limiting these clowns to not make a career out of congress would be nice.
I'm somewhat torn o term limits, as you can get a Ted Kennedy who just plays a figure head role and doesn't do anything after 20+ years in the senate, but there are also people like Ron Paul who can serve 20 years effectively.
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I just wish that we could get rid of gerrymandered political districts that lead to a D or R win every time elections come around, no matter what. Make Congressional electoral districts more of a geographical matter, as opposed to the stupid districts we have today that ensure "Safe R and Safe D" outcomes.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Again, no conviction so this is just shop talk. Even if we say that all convicted voter ID laws is just 1/100 of the total (which is extremely lenient towards your argument), we're still only dealing with <1500 votes per year. That will change no federal election nor state.
The reason why there are so few convictions is that it's very hard to tell who voted illegally. Unless you get a moron like the woman in Ohio that admitted on TV that she voted twice for obama, it's very hard to get a conviction. If you don't think voter fraud is that much of a problem, think locally, where a slim margin of votes can determine an outcome. The best example is senator al franken, who won by 312 votes, with at least 400 felons voting in his favor. Franken has been considered the democrat win that brought us obummercare. See a problem yet?
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Again, no conviction so this is just shop talk. Even if we say that all convicted voter ID laws is just 1/100 of the total (which is extremely lenient towards your argument), we're still only dealing with <1500 votes per year. That will change no federal election nor state.
The reason why there are so few convictions is that it's very hard to tell who voted illegally. Unless you get a moron like the woman in Ohio that admitted on TV that she voted twice for obama, it's very hard to get a conviction. If you don't think voter fraud is that much of a problem, think locally, where a slim margin of votes can determine an outcome. The best example is senator al franken, who won by 312 votes, with at least 400 felons voting in his favor. Franken has been considered the democrat win that brought us obummercare. See a problem yet?
You know they looked into that and that never actually happened, right? Yes, there was a Conservative group who said there was voter fraud, but when actual fair and balanced sources looked into it they found that the group was lying.
The Police Force even had a very extensive search and concluded that only 6 cases of fraud occurred and the two people behind them were arrested. Again, your story is just shop talk.
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You know they looked into that and that never actually happened, right? Yes, there was a Conservative group who said there was voter fraud, but when actual fair and balanced sources looked into it they found that the group was lying.
The Police Force even had a very extensive search and concluded that only 6 cases of fraud occurred and the two people behind them were arrested. Again, your story is just shop talk.
Post your source.
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You're right. I never said it was non-existent, I just said it was very small.
Even if it is a small problem.. there is an easy fix for it so fix it.
I would argue that the fact that its inconvenient for a few people to get to a place where they can get an ID is a pretty small problem as well, yet that is their primary reason for not wanting to do it. So they have turned it into an emotional race/economic oppression issue and they are riding it for all of the mileage they can...
yebat' Putin
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You know they looked into that and that never actually happened, right? Yes, there was a Conservative group who said there was voter fraud, but when actual fair and balanced sources looked into it they found that the group was lying.
The Police Force even had a very extensive search and concluded that only 6 cases of fraud occurred and the two people behind them were arrested. Again, your story is just shop talk.
Post your source.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/98472564.html
http://archive.is/NxdzN
Also, the irony of me needing to present sources to validate my argument while you post an unchecked story is not lost on me.
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There's an easy fix for everything. That doesn't mean it's a good fix.
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Legend
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There's an easy fix for everything. That doesn't mean it's a good fix.
How is fixing something not good?
yebat' Putin
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You know they looked into that and that never actually happened, right? Yes, there was a Conservative group who said there was voter fraud, but when actual fair and balanced sources looked into it they found that the group was lying.
The Police Force even had a very extensive search and concluded that only 6 cases of fraud occurred and the two people behind them were arrested. Again, your story is just shop talk.
Post your source.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/98472564.html
http://archive.is/NxdzN
Also, the irony of me needing to present sources to validate my argument while you post an unchecked story is not lost on me.
You should maybe read the article you posted. You said "You know they looked into that and that never actually happened, right? Yes, there was a Conservative group who said there was voter fraud, but when actual fair and balanced sources looked into it they found that the group was lying."
The link you posted said they had charged 28 people, and the investigation was ongoing. It also stated how difficult it is to prove voter fraud and get a conviction.
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
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And please, give this more recent article a read. In the eyes of the Obama administration, most Democratic lawmakers, and left-leaning editorial pages across the country, voter fraud is a problem that doesn't exist. Allegations of fraud, they say, are little more than pretexts conjured up by Republicans to justify voter ID laws designed to suppress Democratic turnout. That argument becomes much harder to make after reading a discussion of the 2008 Minnesota Senate race in "Who's Counting?", a new book by conservative journalist John Fund and former Bush Justice Department official Hans von Spakovsky. Although the authors cover the whole range of voter fraud issues, their chapter on Minnesota is enough to convince any skeptic that there are times when voter fraud not only exists but can be critical to the outcome of a critical race. In the '08 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was impossibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes. Franken and his Democratic allies dispatched an army of lawyers to challenge the results. After the first canvass, Coleman's lead was down to 206 votes. That was followed by months of wrangling and litigation. In the end, Franken was declared the winner by 312 votes. He was sworn into office in July 2009, eight months after the election. During the controversy a conservative group called Minnesota Majority began to look into claims of voter fraud. Comparing criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons -- all ineligible to vote -- who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race. Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted -- not just accused, but convicted -- of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. "The numbers aren't greater," the authors say, "because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and 'knowingly' voted unlawfully." The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong. web page
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Just one illegal vote is one too many no matter who the culprit or the side of the aisle they voted for. It voided someone else's legal vote. The legal voter took voting more serious than the guy or girl that didn't care enough to go vote that day and yet they got the same result. It was a null vote due to some d-bag.
Also, it isn't just the "small" x amount of votes. It's 2x. If 100 votes were fraudulent, it takes 200 legal votes to offset the fraud. 200 votes should be worth 200 votes.
Last edited by I_Rogue; 04/07/14 02:26 PM.
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All Pro
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I live in a voting district that is 75% democrats and their motto is "vote early, vote often".
GO BROWNS!
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Legend
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There's an easy fix for everything. That doesn't mean it's a good fix.
How is fixing something not good?
See Obamacare ......
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Also, it isn't just the "small" x amount of votes. It's 2x. If 100 votes were fraudulent, it takes 200 legal votes to offset the fraud. 200 votes should be worth 200 votes.
Not necessarily. It could be 50 votes for Joe and 50 votes for Jerry. They could offset each other.
I still don't see any response for mail-in votes.
Mail is the easiest way to do it and there is no way to demand an ID against the ballot. Its less risky, and its way easier to get a huge number of ballots in the mail than standing in line and driving crosstown and standing in line and...
This is like anal-probing everyone at the airport and leaving the border unguarded.
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Dawg Talker
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jc
I read this recently and it didn't provide a source..
Between 2000-2010. there were 105,654 unjustified homicides using firearms. In that same timeframe, there were 10 cases of in person voter fraud.
Just wondering why "voter fraud" is such a concern?
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jc
I read this recently and it didn't provide a source..
Between 2000-2010. there were 105,654 unjustified homicides using firearms. In that same timeframe, there were 10 cases of in person voter fraud.
Just wondering why "voter fraud" is such a concern?
Actually, NC just recently found 36,000 cases of potential voter fraud. Convictions are far fewer, as it is very hard to prove who committed the fraud. It's not like cameras are allowed in voting places.
Your source would be rottencards.com. I'm not sure I trust them.
Chicago passed a conceal carry law in July of 2013. They have the lowest murder rates since 1958. They've seen a 9 percent drop in murders, and a 25 percent drop in all crime.
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And please give this more recent article a read: http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator?page=0,0&akid=9186.102169.TnMJb9&rd=1&t=1 "“There is no basis in fact, whatsoever, in these inaccuracies propagated by the Minnesota Majority here, none,” Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Wednesday. “After the most closely scrutinized election in Minnesota history in 2008, there were zero cases of fraud. Even the Republicans lawyers acknowledged that there was no systematic effort to defraud the election, none.” “In Hennepin County, 650,000 people voted,” he continued. “The Minnesota Majority presented us with 1,500 cases that they felt there were problems with voting. Our own election bureau gave us 100. At the end of the day, we charged 38 cases. And all but one of them are felons voting who were still under the penalty [of not legally applying to regain individual voting rights]. There was no fraud.”" That's coming from an actual government official and not someone who is trying to sell book about how widespread voter fraud is.
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There's an easy fix for everything. That doesn't mean it's a good fix.
How is fixing something not good?
See Obamacare ......
Couldn't have said it better myself.
When marginal benefit does not outweigh the marginal cost then something isn't a good fix. Simple capitalism/economic truth.
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It's more likely that Chicago Police Department is counting homicides as "mysterious deaths" like they do here: http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2014/Chicago-crime-rates/Japan does this to a good extent. I believe they have a 90% arrest rate for murders as they only classify murders that they can solve.
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jc
I read this recently and it didn't provide a source..
Between 2000-2010. there were 105,654 unjustified homicides using firearms. In that same timeframe, there were 10 cases of in person voter fraud.
Just wondering why "voter fraud" is such a concern?
Actually, NC just recently found 36,000 cases of potential voter fraud. Convictions are far fewer, as it is very hard to prove who committed the fraud. It's not like cameras are allowed in voting places.
Your source would be rottencards.com. I'm not sure I trust them.
Chicago passed a conceal carry law in July of 2013. They have the lowest murder rates since 1958. They've seen a 9 percent drop in murders, and a 25 percent drop in all crime.
Fair enough.
So what's the actual ratio and why do we focus on this and not other more rampant crimes?
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Quote:
And please give this more recent article a read: http://www.alternet.org/gop-voter-fraud-hucksters-latest-lie-felons-made-franken-us-senator?page=0,0&akid=9186.102169.TnMJb9&rd=1&t=1
You should try an actual news site. Here are some other articles written by this progressive promotion artist.
12 Key Progressive Politicians to Watch in the 2014 Elections
Chief Justice John Roberts Shreds Another Campaign Finance Law—Individuals May Now Shower Gold on Pols
Ugly New Turn in Republican War on Voters
10 Tough Truths From Harry Reid About The Kochs’ Lies, Propaganda and Radical Un-American Agenda
Please try to find a reporter that doesn't constantly accuse others of lying, hate, or 'war on'. Those are the 'reporters' that have already made up their minds and are trying to convince others of their position. A true reporter gives the news as it happens with as little commentary and opinion as possible.
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Yeah, I didn't link the article because of what the guy said. It's linked because of what I quoted. Don't let your bias get in the way of facts.
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Yeah, I didn't link the article because of what the guy said. It's linked because of what I quoted. Don't let your bias get in the way of facts.
Now's my turn to laugh. There were facts in that article?
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"“There is no basis in fact, whatsoever, in these inaccuracies propagated by the Minnesota Majority here, none,” Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman said Wednesday. “After the most closely scrutinized election in Minnesota history in 2008, there were zero cases of fraud. Even the Republicans lawyers acknowledged that there was no systematic effort to defraud the election, none.”
“In Hennepin County, 650,000 people voted,” he continued. “The Minnesota Majority presented us with 1,500 cases that they felt there were problems with voting. Our own election bureau gave us 100. At the end of the day, we charged 38 cases. And all but one of them are felons voting who were still under the penalty [of not legally applying to regain individual voting rights]. There was no fraud.”"
There. With the Heppin County Attorney Mike Freeman who oversaw the investigation into the cases that your guys lied about.
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jc
I read this recently and it didn't provide a source..
Between 2000-2010. there were 105,654 unjustified homicides using firearms. In that same timeframe, there were 10 cases of in person voter fraud.
Just wondering why "voter fraud" is such a concern?
Actually, NC just recently found 36,000 cases of potential voter fraud. Convictions are far fewer, as it is very hard to prove who committed the fraud. It's not like cameras are allowed in voting places.
Your source would be rottencards.com. I'm not sure I trust them.
Chicago passed a conceal carry law in July of 2013. They have the lowest murder rates since 1958. They've seen a 9 percent drop in murders, and a 25 percent drop in all crime.
Fair enough.
So what's the actual ratio and why do we focus on this and not other more rampant crimes?
Because most posters here believe only Democrats and liberals commit voter fraud. They actually believe it's the main reason Republicans are losing in elections. 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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jc
I read this recently and it didn't provide a source..
Between 2000-2010. there were 105,654 unjustified homicides using firearms. In that same timeframe, there were 10 cases of in person voter fraud.
Just wondering why "voter fraud" is such a concern?
Actually, NC just recently found 36,000 cases of potential voter fraud. Convictions are far fewer, as it is very hard to prove who committed the fraud. It's not like cameras are allowed in voting places.
Your source would be rottencards.com. I'm not sure I trust them.
Chicago passed a conceal carry law in July of 2013. They have the lowest murder rates since 1958. They've seen a 9 percent drop in murders, and a 25 percent drop in all crime.
Fair enough.
So what's the actual ratio and why do we focus on this and not other more rampant crimes?
Because most posters here believe only Democrats and liberals commit voter fraud. They actually believe it's the main reason Republicans are losing in elections.
Who said that?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I did. It's that obvious. 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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