DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Monster Slaughters 32 Innocent People at VA Tech (Cont)

.....continued from the locked thread.

For the love of Christ, people......keep it on the topic at hand.

The picture of evil:

The latest:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/

Va. killer had contact with police before attack
Cho was accused of stalking 2 women, was taken to mental health facility

MSNBC and NBC News
Updated: 46 minutes ago
BLACKSBURG, Va. - The gunman blamed for the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had previously been accused of stalking two female students and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005 after his parents worried he might be suicidal, police said Wednesday.

Cho Seung-Hui had concerned one woman enough with his calls and e-mail in 2005 that police were called in, said Police Chief Wendell Flinchum.

He said the woman declined to press charges and Cho was referred to the university disciplinary system. During one of those incidents, both in late 2005, the department received a call from Cho’s parents who were concerned that he might be suicidal, and he was taken to a mental health facility, he said.

Flinchum said he knew of no other police incidents involving Cho until the deadly shootings Monday, first at a girl’s dorm room and then a classroom building across campus. Neither of the stalking victims was among the victims Monday.

In addition to the 33 people confirmed dead, including the gunman, nine students remained in hospitals in stable condition Tuesday, MSNBC’s Tucker Carlson reported.

Same gunman?
Thirty-two people were shot to death before the gunman killed himself. State Police have said the same gun was used in both shootings, but they said Wednesday said they still weren’t confident that it was the same gunman.

Police searched Cho’s dorm room on Tuesday and recovered, among other items, a chain and combination lock, according to documents filed Wednesday; the front doors of Norris Hall had been chained shut from the inside during the shooting rampage.

Other items seized include a folding knife; two computers, a hard disk and other computer disks; documents, books, notebooks and other writings; a digital camera; CDs; and two Dremel tools.

Cho’s roommates and professors on Wednesday described him as a troubled, very quiet young man who rarely spoke to his roommates or made eye contact with them.

His bizarre behavior became even less predictable in recent weeks, roommates Joseph Aust and Karan Grewal said.

Grewal had pulled an all-nighter on homework the day of the shootings and saw Cho at around 5 a.m.

“He didn’t look me in the eye. Same old thing. I left him alone,” He told CNN. He said when he saw Cho that morning and during the weekend, Cho didn’t smile, didn’t frown and didn’t show any signs of anger. Grewal also said he never saw any weapons.

‘A really mean streak’
Several students and professors described Cho as a sullen loner. Authorities said he left a rambling note raging against women and rich kids. News reports said that Cho, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly erratic.

Professors and classmates were alarmed by his class writings — pages filled with twisted, violence-drenched writing.

“It was not bad poetry. It was intimidating,” poet Nikki Giovanni, one of his professors, told CNN Wednesday.

“I know we’re talking about a youngster, but troubled youngsters get drunk and jump off buildings,” she said. “There was something mean about this boy. It was the meanness — I’ve taught troubled youngsters and crazy people — it was the meanness that bothered me. It was a really mean streak.”

Giovanni said her students were so unnerved by Cho’s behavior, including taking pictures of them with his cell phone, that some stopped coming to class and she had security check on her room. She eventually had him taken out of her class, saying she would quit if he wasn’t removed.

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of creative writing at Virginia Tech, said she tutored Cho after that.

“He was so distant and so lonely,” she told ABC’s “Good Morning America” Wednesday. “It was almost like talking to a hole, as though he wasn’t there most of the time. He wore sunglasses and his hat very low so it was hard to see his face.”

Roy also described using a code word with her assistant to call police if she ever felt threatened by Cho, but she said she never used it.

Dude was not all there. Here is a link to his short play that he submitted last year. Just weird.



Link removed due to profanity and inappropriate subject matter.

I'm not sure posting his picture is the best thing to do ... afterall, that's what these psychopaths really want ... attention.

Which one of us do you think is going to snap?

Headline on Yahoo News right now:
Va. Tech gunman had mental problems

Uh ...

I'm not so sure this is the answer... The article below proposes teaching aggression to kids. I think we'd end up with mass murder in the headlines on a daily basis.


Schools need to teach students to be aggressive
Security analyst tells TODAY how schools should prepare for attacks
By Mike Celizic
TODAYshow.com contributor
TODAY
Updated: 12:05 p.m. ET April 18, 2007
Cowering under a desk and waiting for help to come is no longer an option. American schools must teach their students to respond aggressively to attacks by people bent on mayhem.

"I would hope that the administrators and folks that are making the decisions would understand that it’s difficult to negotiate with a bullet," security consultant Allen Hill told TODAY. "A person that comes into your facility with a gun intends to kill and do you harm."

The founder of Response Options, a Texas-based security company, said, "Get past this paralysis of fear over liability issues. Our country is so litigious and concerned about doing the wrong thing and about doing the politically correct thing that we don’t do anything."

That only helps people like Cho Seung Hui. "The bad guys are counting on Americans to sit still and do nothing," Hill said.

Students and others need to realize that they do have options, Hill said.

The "bad guys" plan their attacks. Schools need to plan and rehearse their defenses and responses just as aggressively.

"The training should be just as intense and be taken just as seriously as the bad guy takes their mission to kill," he said.

At Virginia Tech, Cho Seung Hui walked into classrooms and simply shot people. There are reports that he even lined up victims to shoot them one by one. But in one Norris Hall classroom, student Zach Petkewicz led his classmates in barricading the door, saving all inside.

Petkewicz’ response was instinctive, prompted by "adrenaline and fear."

Hill’s company teaches acting from knowledge and a well-rehearsed plan.

"Once the bad guy’s inside, how hard is it to hit a non-moving target?" Hill observed.

"Get up and move," he advised. "Do whatever it takes to create chaos and mayhem. Disrupt them. Make them go into a protective mode themselves. We feel that we can become actively aggressive for our own benefit, whether that’s actively running out of the classroom, having to face the gunman and take him down, breaking out windows and escaping that way."

You can’t wait for something to happen and then try to form a response, he said. It’s got to be done in advance.

Security systems are passive, he said. But those under attack can be active.

Said Hill: "There are things that you can do to take the initiative away from the bad guy, to disrupt their plan and to create a situation that’s winnable for you."


© 2007 MSNBC Interactive
URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18174900/

it's not saying to be aggressive out of nowhere...i see the logic in it, b/c causing confusion would probably cut down on the deaths in some cases...kind of like fish darting chaotically in the presence of a predator...

at the same time, i don't think that would be a smart approach most of the time...if the guy wanted to show up and scare the hell out of everyone, or even 'just' kill the professor, threatening the gunman with riotous behavior may trigger him to do worse...

I disagree, I think it's a good idea. Just like the people reacted on the plane after they heard they were crashing them and killing everybody on 9/11, they took action and saved others from being killed.

People should not sit there like non-moving targets. They need to get into the mind set of protecting themselves and others. I'd rather be the person to get killed if it saved others from the same fate.

well, I think this article is just going to be another tangent used to keep the story alive and keep people talking about crap that we don't need to be sweating, but if our society is at a point where we are now even remotely giving serious consideration to training our children in school how to prepare for gun attacks....well, we all may as well just put our heads between our knees & pucker up now.

If it's our college kids we're worried about... here's a simple solution.... mandatory military service. I can just about guarantee they won't be frozen with indecision.

Overall though.... as Peen so perfectly stated in the original thread: "Sometimes stuff just happens".
And it' the truth.

I think you missed the point of the article. It's saying that people should be a lot more pro-active in these situations, because you're dealing with a psychopath who is likely going to kill himself afterwards anyway ... he's not looking to negotiate. What society usually tells us to do in a usual "gun-play" situation (like a robbery) is to hit the deck and be passive, and the guy shooting probably isn't going to bother with you. Stuff like this is a completely different situation, because you are dealing with a guy who is just looking to kill people. So rather than being passive, your best bet is to be pro-active. Not necessarily charging the guy with a baseball bat ... but doing something like holding the door shut or getting the heck out of there.

i agree that it could work...but what if the guy had walked into the classroom and was just waving the gun around?...at that point, causing chaos may threaten him, causing him to shoot, even if his original intention was not to kill everyone...

kind of like fighting back a mugger...depending on the situation, it can make things better, or it can make things worse...

You wait for that first shot. it sounds like your waiting to be killed, but truth is, killing 30 people didn't happen in 1 shot.

1 professor blocked the doorway, and gave his life to allow his students to escape out the windows. How many others had a chance to do something to stop the killing long before it hit the couple dozen mark.

No one likes the idea sacrificing their life, but at some point you need to be able to rationalize the probability of your demise. Someone taking a chair or desk and charging the guy, yes may get a shot, but adding the confusion may throw off his shot and you get hit in the leg or arm and manage to get to him.

But in reality, until it happens, no one knows exactly how they will react, but that is where training and education come in. Remove or learn to control the fear, allows you to see a situation more clearly, and possibly create a reaction to circumvent the outcome.

This sicko mailed a package to NBC News between the first killings and the second killings. It is, according to reports, a multi-media package, containing a written transcript as a well as a video of Cho reading the transcript. This is how he filled the time between the shootings by the sound of it...

Some of this will be shown on NBC Nightly News this evening, for those still interested in the story, according to MSNBC right now.

wait, you mean they're going to show something during primetime that might generate higher ratings?

Yeah... for some reason I can't understand why they aren't airing in on MSNBC at 3:30 when they received the news...

or... why they are giving it any attention at all instead of just shredding the thing.

Well, congrats to the kid... he's getting his 15 minutes of fame.

Why should they shred it ? It's evidence. And it might explain his motive. It's a huge public interest story so it makes sense that they air it during primetime when the most people can watch it.

Why not show it now AND during primetime? Answer: NBC are sensationalist pimps.

if not shred it, then not air it. If it's evidence, then hand it off to be treated as such. If you want it to explain anything, it should be in the hands of people that can do something with it, like police profilers and or shrinks.

All it is doing is giving attention to the (dead) kid that just killed for attention and at the same time they are profiting from it.

and "Public Interest Story"? GMAB!
it's sensationalist crap, it's not news and this is profiteering on other people's misery.

It is evidence and it has been turned over to the FBI. You think the murder of thirty students does not capture the public's interest ? No, you GMAB. They are not sensationalizing anything here. They are presenting what happened because PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW why something like this awful sickening tradgety happened. And they are the NEWS it's their JOB to REPORT on what goes on in our society. If you don't want to hear about it, change the channel.

But PPE, haven't you heard? Cho isn't dead! I have heard multiple times on MSNBC the sentiment that "the contents of this package will give us a better idea of who we are dealing with" (paraphrased) Someone really needs to inform these media whores the guy is DEAD. Only Jesus Christ has returned from the dead but listening to MSNBC you would think he was one of two!

Sure, it captures the public interest... this thread is evidence of that.

Well, you being in radio, I'm not surprised that your perception of this is as it is (my oldest brother is in radio as well and would feel the same way I'm sure... it's all about Nielsen and "good radio"). Don't take that any way other than what it is... I disagree with my brother on this stuff all the time.

My opinion here however is that this is just more of the media whoring this out. There is no valid reason that I can think of that this punk needs "to be understood" or be heard or anything. What he did is terrible and inexplicable and defies explanation and I cannot fathom for a second why he, his voice or his likeness should be given even a fraction of a second of airtime beyond what he has had.... but ratings rule the airwaves, so he'll get his 15 minutes of fame.

As for "PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW"... dumbass humans also block highways on a daily basis to rubberneck at the sight of a car accident..... it doesn't make it right just because a bunch of people do it.

And one small correction to something you wrote:

"And they are the NEWS it's their JOB to REPORT on what goes on in our society"

should be

"And they are the NEWS it's their JOB to ETHICALLY REPORT on what goes on in our society"


If it bleeds, it leads.

Exactly. And to add to that, right now Tucker Carlson is using "the package" as a teaser for subsequent segments. This tactic is used all the time. They say they have something important to say and then they hold it till the very end forcing you to watch them for the entire hour. Why not report it right up front? Ratings rule.

Yeah, he said he'd unveil it in three minutes the first time, that was about 20 minutes ago. He said he'd have it right after the break.

I just read his "play". It wasn't good. Maybe mildly disturbing, but realistically, I'm shocked he made it to senior status with writing a script like that. Artistically, it was horrible. Personally, it was horrible.

The video so far has been nothing impressive, simply some ranting and photos. Only the one photo got me at all, where he was pointing a gun right at the camera and he had this odd smile on his face.

I hear your points. And I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think all the coverage is warranted given that this is the largest mass shooting/murder by an individual in modern American history. And the fact that it happened to the young and innocent. And the fact that new developments in the case seem to keep popping up. It's only natural that the public wants to know what happened and why. And the news is always going to highlight the stories that the majority of people want to hear about. I don't think anyone would care to hear a story about who picked their nose in the supermarket yesterday.

This just keeps getting more interesting by the minute.

Actually they showed some footage of the monster's video at the beginning of the program, and some at the the end.

Tough guy...

Why the hell does these media guys keep trying to make it look like it was video games or the movies? GMAFB....

Because its the media, and they can't think for themselves...

The more and more I read on this kid, the more and more psychological issues I see he had.

I wouldn't be suprised if he was actually autistic. Many of the descriptions I've heard from people who knew him were that he didn't make eye contact, wouldn't speak and had his own world to himself.

He looks/sounds mentally ill... not autistic... he sounds more like he was manic or schizophrenic...

and I just watched one guy on MSNBC who really pissed me off when interviewing a suite mate because he kept brining it back to video games or asking why they didn't ask for a new roomie because cho was quiet and didn't really talk to anyone.... hell we had several guys in my dorm that were quiet and didn't really talk to anyone and they didn't shoot anyone.

The thing I think is the saddest though is that the two girls who were being stalked didn't press charges. Not much the police can do if they don't press charges. And I wonder what kind of psychological follow-up he had after he was discharged from the mental hospital. The same interviewer asked the roomie if they were told of his pscyhological problems... which I had to laugh at because it's illegal to disclose that kind of information but whatever media dude...

just sad sad situation overall... I def don't think he was autistic but he had some serious mental issues/illness going on that sounds like was treated a bit but not with any good follow-up.

Lets have some fun...

Caption using this fun site: http://bighugelabs.com/flickr/motivator.php

I'll go first...

That is so wrong!

I've gotta see this video and what made him sneer into the camera with a hammer LOL! I mean, I've got to see the transition from Dirty Harry to Julio Franco with a hammer. This picture just kills me.