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JC
Some of these kids are only a few years removed from high school. There is no reason to think a high school coach cant coach. If anything it is probably harder because they play for fun and many never take it seriously. An intelligent man is always learning from anyone and everyone who successful at ANY level. His father was VERY successful. Only good things can be gained from taking some time to learn from him and then picking it apart to add a thing or two that might be useful.
Seriously some of you need to stop being so darn condescending.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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You honestly can't figure that out on your own?
Maybe it's old age, but apparently not. Why don't you school me...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Some people will be critical of this.
Some people will get a feel good moment from it.
Most all of the advice I received from my Father ended up being spot on.
Pettine has got his shot. If Cleveland and the Browns are underdogs, what is he? Lombardi, Walsh, and Parcells were underdogs. Big ones. All their teams were crap. (I believe Harbaugh "coached up" that talent)
I have a much better feel for Pettine and Jimmy than I have for anyone in a Brown's leadership capacity since Paul Brown. I could be wrong. I was wrong about Holmgren.
I think Pettine and Shanahan should read the document. Take whatever nuggets may exist, move on from the rest. It comes from the heart. Maybe more heart and less head is a good thing. I don't see how it would hurt. His Father cares.
For years I complained that there was no passion in our owners. Now we have some. It appears theres a down to earth, work ethic culture, and I like it. If these guys aren't willing to do whatever it takes to succeed, they will fall flat on their faces. Its not going to be easy. They may be in over their heads - we will see. When things get tough, they know that Sr. is keeping an eye on it, and that may mean more than any fans, media, or boss. It might drive them when *&^% hits the fan.
For years I've wanted a fighter in there. Someone who would fight. There seems to be a little bit of a fighter spirit going on. If its corny, touchy feely sap I don't care.
I'm good with it.
An ol crusty coach of over 40 years giving me advice is fine. Family might be a good thing, it seems we've tried everything else.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Unrealistic expectations and childish behavior if the team doesn't win right now, won't help.
Every Browns fan wants the team to win...if they are anywhere near .500 this season, I will consider it a successful season. But hey, that's just me trying to be realistic.
Hilarious on many levels. Shall we dig up a few of your posts from last off-season?
Vers...I'm inviting you to dig my posts from last year...let's see you back up whatever your trying to claim.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Last week, the father of the Browns’ head coach mailed a 40-page document for his son to give to offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan.
Let's hope Pettine just threw this in a desk drawer.
Yep. What kind of clown act is this?
I don't see what the big deal is, Shanahan already uses a 40-page document given to him by his father.
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Last week, the father of the Browns’ head coach mailed a 40-page document for his son to give to offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan.
Let's hope Pettine just threw this in a desk drawer.
Yep. What kind of clown act is this?
I don't know if I would call it that. It's just a old coach who is proud of his son and he wants to help, but yeah, kind of awkward for Pet and Shanny.
Now that the story is out, if I was Shanny I would insist on looking at it and be sure to be able to key in on a few points so when he meets the old man he can discuss it to some degree. He has an out with everything new. Lot's to do and not enough time so to speak, but coaching is coaching and strategy is strategy no matter the level. I am not going to look back to get the exact numbers, but winning 350 games and not losing 50 is pretty darn impressive. There are some lessons to be learned in there somewhere.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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"Hey, Kyle, I'm really looking forward to working with you. I know you've been in the NFL for a decade, but why don't you go ahead and take a look at this playbook my father drew up? He's a retired high school coach".
You say 'thanks, Pop' and toss it in a drawer. At most, look it over and if there's anything of relevance in there, maybe you run it by your staff.
If Pettine actually delivered it to him and asked him to look it over...that's probably a bad sign.
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"Hey, Kyle, I'm really looking forward to working with you. I know you've been in the NFL for a decade, but why don't you go ahead and take a look at this playbook my father drew up? He's a retired high school coach".
You say 'thanks, Pop' and toss it in a drawer. At most, look it over and if there's anything of relevance in there, maybe you run it by your staff.
If Pettine actually delivered it to him and asked him to look it over...that's probably a bad sign.
Oh, I get it, you are assuming the information in the document is bad and your assuming that Shanahan knows it all and can't learn anything and your assuming that Shanahan will be "HURT" over Mike Sr's obvious attempt to take credit for anything that might work out well... I get it now
The Biggest thing you are assuming is that Kyle Shanahan is that freakin Petty that he doesn't understand that Mike Sr may just be trying to help..
You know what I do with that document if I'm Shanahan? I read it. If there is ONE idea in there, I take it and make it mine. And yeah, I thank Mike Sr. For it.. Like any good young man SHOULD do for an older gentleman.
Your problem with this is in your heart.. not your head..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
I'm thinking it's odd and probably just a bit awkward.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Oh, I get it, you are assuming the information in the document is bad and your assuming that Shanahan knows it all and can't learn anything and your assuming that Shanahan will be "HURT" over Mike Sr's obvious attempt to take credit for anything that might work out well... I get it now
The Biggest thing you are assuming is that Kyle Shanahan is that freakin Petty that he doesn't understand that Mike Sr may just be trying to help.
I don't think you get it, as I'm not assuming any of those things.
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Your problem with this is in your heart.. not your head..
What does that even mean?
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There are several sub themes running through this thread... that never happens  On the importance of early wins. I think they are important. Everyone knows the statistical implications for making the playoffs after an 0-2 start. Getting a win early and getting one in the home opener will help set the tone. The team will likely experience adversity at multiple times during the season but an early win will help get buy-in to the way Pettine is leading the team. As for the letter from Pettine Sr. I hope, given Shanahan's experience in the shadow of his father, he has an understanding and graceful reaction to the gesture. None of us know its content or its tone. Is it X's and O's or philosophy of football? Or a mixture of the two? Unfortunately, having made its way into the media (it would be interesting to know how that happened) Shanahan most likely will have to deal with it. Better to do it in the way least likely to become a distraction. Its possible that something of value is contained in it. Mike Jr. may also want to help Dad understand that a well meaning favor can get distorted quickly. Especially among a fan base hyper-sensitive to minutia and losing.
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Unrealistic expectations and childish behavior if the team doesn't win right now, won't help.
Every Browns fan wants the team to win...if they are anywhere near .500 this season, I will consider it a successful season. But hey, that's just me trying to be realistic.
Hilarious on many levels. Shall we dig up a few of your posts from last off-season?
Vers...I'm inviting you to dig my posts from last year...let's see you back up whatever your trying to claim.
Here is one:
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pdr...sure it does support what I have been saying all along...Banner continue to use his crazy standard of kicking his own players/free agents, who are approaching or beyond 30, to the curb...refusing to negotiate contracts with them.
It was Banner's favorite tactic in Philly and as it a result, Banner poisoned the Eagles locker room and ultimately, got himself fired...now we see Banner starting the very same crap here in Cleveland with the Dawson situation.
No offer...no negotiations...
It's becoming obvious that many have no clue about what it takes to build a winning football team...kicking your best players to the curb, refusing to negotiate contracts with those players WHO ARE DESERVING...is not how a franchise builds a winner.
One last point...how could two NFL franchises have such a different opinion about the value of Phil Dawson?
...one team looking to win a Super Bowl (49ers), the other team (the Browns) simply going through the motions with their actions no way near their rhetoric.
BTW, the article does not say that Banner contacted Dawson's agent.
Want more? I can search for the posts where you stated that Banner was mentally unstable. Cool?
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Here is a pretty good one, mac. It's from July 20th, well before the season. Quote:
So far, I feel my concerns are warranted based on Banner performance so far, getting rid of one of the very best kickers in the NFL...then signing a well traveled retread in an attempt to fill the position.
Then their is the Browns draft...worst draft the Browns have had since the rebuild began.
...helping the Steelers by trading our fourth round pick to them so they could draft the safety who is expected to be Troy Polamanu's replacement..it was the first time the Browns did anything to help the Steelers since May 14, 1968 ...then Banner foolishly proclaimed that HE PREFERS TO TRADE WITH THE DIVISION.
Vers...maybe you can tell us how many NFL franchises go out of their way to help division rivals build a better football team??
Many have attempted to smear lipstick on Banner, supporting his draft, but most around the NFL gave the Browns low marks for their draft performance, earning the lowest grades since the rebuild started in 2010.
I will judge Joe Banner based on his past performances as well as how he conducts business for the Browns. Those who fall in love with the little guy based on his ability to "talk"...consider this...talk never won a championship.
Banner's words are meaningless to me and until Banner actually proves that he knows football and the football side of the franchise...I will continue to fear that Banner is going to screw this opportunity up.
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... Game one doesn't mean anymore than game 16.
Yeah, but it means as much as game 16. Just like the first two minutes of the game are as valuable as the last two minutes. You can score just as many points. Winning early in the year is just as important as winning 'down the stretch,' since a team two-or-three games up in the standings the beginning of December has a lot more flexibility to rest key players for the playoffs than a team needing to win-out just to get a wild card slot. Those leads are built early in the year.
However, for a team like ours that has institutionalized failure since returning to the league, getting off to a good start is more important than for lots of teams, especially teams that routinely make the playoffs, which we don't.
If we start losing early, even once, the old nagging doubts will become a burden.
Football is a lot about morale and confidence. A team like the Browns especially needs to feel they can bust into the playoffs and go all the way.
And, losing one game in the NFL season is like a ten-game losing streak in MLB. Not quite the same, but the percentage is the same. Don't want to start your season that way.
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Some people will be critical of this.
Some people will get a feel good moment from it.
Most all of the advice I received from my Father ended up being spot on.
...
I got lots of good advice from my dad, too.
But as a father, I'm not so sure mine is worth nearly as much. 
After all, I was standing outside last night starting at 1:30 to watch the moon disappear.
I think that officially makes me a lunatic. 
But my sons, daughters, and even wife think I'm fun, so that's all that matters.
Hopefully Pettine's dad gave them good advice. We'll see. 
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#gmstrong
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I knew that I had read the original story of where this whole "Godfather" theme came from. But I looked around the traditional media to re-read it. Couldn't find it. Then I stumbled back on to the article on the teams official site. That tells me quite a bit.
This isn't being taken with any real seriousness inside HQ.
It doesn't make it on to the web site unless Coach Pettine first makes the stort known and then gives approval for use by internal media types. I conclude that he doesn't view it as an infringement, distraction or threat on his ability to coach the team. If he did, it would have never seen the light of day.
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j/c
I'm thinking it's odd and probably just a bit awkward.
Again, WHY? It's no biggie.. You got a VERY successful HS Coach that is probably brimming with pride over his sons new job as HC of an NFL team and he wants to help. That's what dads do. (moms also)
I don't know what's in that document. Probably never will. But is it worth scorn? Probably not.
Again, does anyone think that shanahan is that petty to complain about it? I don't.
I wish my dad was still here to give me advice.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Oh, I get it, you are assuming the information in the document is bad and your assuming that Shanahan knows it all and can't learn anything and your assuming that Shanahan will be "HURT" over Mike Sr's obvious attempt to take credit for anything that might work out well... I get it now
The Biggest thing you are assuming is that Kyle Shanahan is that freakin Petty that he doesn't understand that Mike Sr may just be trying to help.
I don't think you get it, as I'm not assuming any of those things.
Ok, then what's wrong with Mike Sr. giving Mike Jr that document?
You made this comment which got me to thinking you were assuming things:
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"Hey, Kyle, I'm really looking forward to working with you. I know you've been in the NFL for a decade, but why don't you go ahead and take a look at this playbook my father drew up? He's a retired high school coach".
Assumption #1: Mike Jr will give this to Shanahan
Assumption #2: Shanahan is petty enough to scorn the document without looking at it.
Assumption #3: That Mike Sr is a retired HS Coach so what could he possibly know about Football in the NFL.
You didn't say you assumed things, you indicated it (didn't we have this conversation over something else?)
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Your problem with this is in your heart.. not your head..
What does that even mean?
Your head knows that it's not a big deal, but your heart isn't big enough to allow for a father to be proud of his son and wishing to help in any way he can.
Mike Sr is a guy I know little about except he has an exceptional winning record. He knows something about football. He has three former players on Mike Jrs coaching staff who talk in glowing terms about Sr.
In other words, he's respected.. When you stop listening to respected elders, you begin to make them less important. It doesn't hurt anything to listen..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Maybe it was forty pages of advice on how to deal with his over bearing son...
Not saying Pettine is overbearing, but if anyone would know, his dad would...
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I've read the first page and a half of this thread and I must say I'm surprised at some on here. With this being really Kyle's first yr. by himself with out dad or friends to fall back on, I can see him being thrilled with knowing that he has very good support coming from a winning coach. I'm sure he will read it all and might even ask for more. Good job Sr.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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vers...so you are still upset that Joe Banner got himself fired, again.
You must admit vers, when it comes Joe Banner, I "nailed it"...
Banner's 19 years of NFL experience were on the business side of the Eagles, not on the football side and I saw that as a "red flag". Being in charge of the football side of the Browns would be Banner's "first experience" holding such a position (on the football side).
Digging into Banner's background with the Eagles painted a picture of him as someone difficult to work with who had "earned" a reputation as the most hated man in Philly.
While some DTers questioned the claim when I referred to Banner's reputation, it became obvious during the Browns coaching searches that there was "something" causing the top coaching candidates to decline to interview or withdraw from consideration for the Browns HC job.
IMO, many of the coaching candidates saw Banner for who he was...an unqualified, micro-manager who was in near total control of the Browns franchise and as someone they could not work with.
Vers...turns out, Joe Banner was who I thought he was...and he could not change what he was...
About Banner's mental thing...there is a psychological phenomenon known as Napoleon complex, read it when you get time.
Concerning Banner's 30 and out rule...there were 7 Browns that were in their 30s on the 2012 roster...all were cut or let go of when Banner took over.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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He's actually just pointing out the hypocritical nature of coming after me on my "Show me" attitude and having said the same exact things about Banner last season.
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Maybe it was forty pages of advice on how to deal with his over bearing son...
Not saying Pettine is overbearing, but if anyone would know, his dad would...
LOL I guess it could be.. Point is, we don't know what it is. it might be really good stuff.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I've read the first page and a half of this thread and I must say I'm surprised at some on here. With this being really Kyle's first yr. by himself with out dad or friends to fall back on, I can see him being thrilled with knowing that he has very good support coming from a winning coach. I'm sure he will read it all and might even ask for more. Good job Sr.
Preach it Brother.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Last week, the father of the Browns’ head coach mailed a 40-page document for his son to give to offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan.
Let's hope Pettine just threw this in a desk drawer.
Yep. What kind of clown act is this?
I don't see what the big deal is, Shanahan already uses a 40-page document given to him by his father.
He, he...
Wish I had thought that one up.
Vers, Mac
You're both right.
There is a lot of extremely valuable wisdom in old coaches.
Im coming to the conclusion that young, cool, hip and trendy is way overrated. (ie the last 6 years of obamanation.)
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He's actually just pointing out the hypocritical nature of coming after me on my "Show me" attitude and having said the same exact things about Banner last season.
He chose to ignore all that.
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j/c
The man that feels he has nothing to learn from anyone else is destined for failure.
The man who will accept input from all sorts of sources in the hopes of learning and understanding new things is laying the groundwork for sustained success.
Regardless of it being the HC's Daddy giving a playbook or however else folks want to frame it... Shanahan NOT looking at it would be more of a concern than him taking it in. You never know where inspiration will come from, and you'll definitely never see if it you don't keep your eyes open to it.
Always remain teachable in everything.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
The man that feels he has nothing to learn from anyone else is destined for failure.
The man who will accept input from all sorts of sources in the hopes of learning and understanding new things is laying the groundwork for sustained success.
Regardless of it being the HC's Daddy giving a playbook or however else folks want to frame it... Shanahan NOT looking at it would be more of a concern than him taking it in. You never know where inspiration will come from, and you'll definitely never see if it you don't keep your eyes open to it.
Always remain teachable in everything.
+ a go zillion
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Good coaches never stop learning...just like good players.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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~ Legend
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Someone should have told Marty that...
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Someone should have told Marty that...
They did, but he was chasing gleams with his butterfly net.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Someone should have told Marty that...
They did, but he was chasing gleams with his butterfly net.
You sir, are a horrible man., I like it 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
I'm thinking it's odd and probably just a bit awkward.
Again, WHY? It's no biggie.. You got a VERY successful HS Coach that is probably brimming with pride over his sons new job as HC of an NFL team and he wants to help. That's what dads do. (moms also)
I don't know what's in that document. Probably never will. But is it worth scorn? Probably not.
Again, does anyone think that shanahan is that petty to complain about it? I don't.
I wish my dad was still here to give me advice.
Odd because have you ever heard of a former HS football coach giving an NFL HC or OC 40 pages of notes?
Awkward because this sounds a lot like a "Colt McCoy's dad" kinda thing.
High school football and the NFL are worlds apart. Not in any way similar other than a very few basic things.
You read far more into it than anything close to what I stated. I never said it was "a biggie" or that anyone would complain. Not in any way.
I do find it odd and a rather awkward thing to see done. Nothing more.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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j/c
I'm thinking it's odd and probably just a bit awkward.
Again, WHY? It's no biggie.. You got a VERY successful HS Coach that is probably brimming with pride over his sons new job as HC of an NFL team and he wants to help. That's what dads do. (moms also)
I don't know what's in that document. Probably never will. But is it worth scorn? Probably not.
Again, does anyone think that shanahan is that petty to complain about it? I don't.
I wish my dad was still here to give me advice.
Odd because have you ever heard of a former HS football coach giving an NFL HC or OC 40 pages of notes?
Awkward because this sounds a lot like a "Colt McCoy's dad" kinda thing.
High school football and the NFL are worlds apart. Not in any way similar other than a very few basic things.
You read far more into it than anything close to what I stated. I never said it was "a biggie" or that anyone would complain. Not in any way.
I do find it odd and a rather awkward thing to see done. Nothing more.
Ok, so you don't want Shanahan to take advice from an Exceptional HS head coach.. I get it.. and you don't want it because it's awkward.
Oh,, should Shanahan resign now? I mean, after all, he's working for a former HS Head Coach who wasn't nearly as successful as his father.
I don't see anything awkward so I guess we gotta agree to disagree...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hall of Famer
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I do find it odd and a rather awkward thing to see done. Nothing more.
Yes, it is odd but it is well-intentioned. And you're right, it's not a "biggie"...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Dawg Talker
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j/c
The man that feels he has nothing to learn from anyone else is destined for failure.
The man who will accept input from all sorts of sources in the hopes of learning and understanding new things is laying the groundwork for sustained success.
Regardless of it being the HC's Daddy giving a playbook or however else folks want to frame it... Shanahan NOT looking at it would be more of a concern than him taking it in. You never know where inspiration will come from, and you'll definitely never see if it you don't keep your eyes open to it.
Always remain teachable in everything.
Well said.
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~ Legend
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Didn't know that you could comprise 40 pages of notes on the triple option and the t formation  That said, we really don't know what's in those notes so doing some serious discussions about this is a waste of time as it could easily be 40 pages about the Wing T or just as easy something that would make Gus Malzahan's jaw drop.
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Legend
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Legend
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Assumption #1: Mike Jr will give this to Shanahan
I did not assume that. Like I said, I imagine he probably just tossed it in a desk drawer.
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Assumption #2: Shanahan is petty enough to scorn the document without looking at it.
I don't see what do scorn or pettiness has to do with anything.
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Assumption #3: That Mike Sr is a retired HS Coach so what could he possibly know about Football in the NFL.
I know many people with a great deal of NFL knowledge who have even less credentials.
It doesn't sound like I'm the one assuming things here...
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Your head knows that it's not a big deal, but your heart isn't big enough to allow for a father to be proud of his son and wishing to help in any way he can.
"Your heart isn't big enough to allow for a father to be proud of his son and wishing to help in any way he can"?
Look, it's a fluff piece. No need for numbered assumption points. As I said, Pettine probably said 'Thanks, pop' and tossed it in a drawer. Now that the story is out, if Shanahan is asked about it, he'll probably thank Sr. and say he picked up some pointers from it. End of story.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Pettine Sr, the Godfather of
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