|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 344
2nd String
|
2nd String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 344 |
I agree. Besides, one of the QBs should be there in the second or third rounds anyway. Go Brownies!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Fair post bro... Quote:
Your analogy doesn't really fit. What's the harm in drafting a player that knows how to play his position and to do it superlatively? You say that we're loaded at OLB, but are we? If Kruger has accomplished what you think he should, then maybe you're right. I don't think that he's done what he was brought here to do. And his versatility means you can put him inside... or outside on all three downs.
No harm really, except the fact you're neglecting other areas that are "less packed with qualified people/talent" and/or not having any depth/talent at all for an area that we could get by, and get by pretty well IMO, with the group of players we have already.
Kruger gets ripped cause the man had low sack numbers and then people end the story right then-n-there. He had 15 or so QB hurries, top 10 in the NFL last season for OLBs. Yeah, be nice to have seen some of them turn into sacks, but to dog him cause they didn't and to say he wasn't disruptive is a statement made by those with blinders on. Most of those "almost-sacks" you can thank Chris Owens and/or Craig Roberston for blowing their coverage all the time and allowing qb's to slice us up...
Quote:
We know that defenses haven't won any games. Exactly how short is your memory?
Pretty short  but I don't know why that statement has anything to do with literally anything that had been said. You said "you don't want another Julis Peppers" and I replied with that. So what is the point you're trying to make in the case of the Browns drafting Mack with that????????? 
Quote:
See explanation above. And why part with any of them. Groves is a free agent next season. Curiously, so is Sheard's and you only hope to retain him. After this season, you could cut Kruger loose if he doesn't increase his performance and you pay him the $3.6 million in signing bonus and nothing more. That's it.
Truthfully, I didn't know Groves was a FA next season. But still it doesn't make sense to have a basket full of stellar rushing linebackers. How do you split reps up come practice and game day? Whose to get more snaps than the other, when technically all of them are disruptive? Would it cause animosity amongst the group having so many bodies to split reps with? I don't know, doubtfully but hey... when there are dire needs elsewhere, IMO, we should then "go elsewhere" instead of looking at Mack.
IMO and I'll leave it at this, drafting Mack is like buying another Reese Cup when you have a desk drawer full of reese cups. Yes, each one is scrumptious, delicious and appealing... each one has virtually the same traits/abilities, but what you really need is a protein bar or a fiber bar lol instead of another reese cup!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,263 |
I get what DC is trying to say. If the QB you have in mind is rated lower than the top 5 picks on your board, then you must take the higher rated player. Remember Farmer & Co. has already said that they would draft an impact player at #4. If they feel that there is no QB in this draft that is a upgrade to Hoyer, but they want to groom one for a year or so, then they pull the trigger at #26 because they feel like a Team or two below us will take him before our 2nd rd. pick. I see what your saying about if you love a QB then spend a #4 on him, however it would not be a good investment to over draft a QB knowing he would be sitting for a year or two, when you can get your impact player at #4 and get your QB a little later. Have your cake and eat it to.
Edit: This makes sense in that IF the Browns have the QB's rated below their top 5 or so prospects. Otherwise yes you draft them top 5. However I don't think they have a QB rated that high.
Last edited by bleednbrown; 04/21/14 06:41 PM.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Everything screams QB for the Texans. Except the red flags around all of the QBs.
Why does it scream QB at all? The Texans hold sole possession of the first pick in every round of the NFL draft.
My guess is that they're less enthralled with these QB choices and think that they can get one just as well in the 2nd round (or even the 3rd round) as they could get with any of these guys.
If these QBs aren't surefire #1 overall worthy in the eyes of the Texans front office, the Texans won't take one. It's easy to understand. They'll take one when they want and not a pick sooner and it doesn't matter what the mock drafters have to say about it. I'm rather certain that they would rather sell the selection to the highest bidder if they felt the value was there for them.
What I think is happening is the same crap that happens every year. It's how front offices around the league got around to drafting RG3 (and giving up the ridiculous draft picks) or Ryan Tannehill or Brandon Weeden in 2012 or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder in 2011. You could go back further and see that EVERY year, there seems to be at least one team making that same mistake.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Fact is that at #4 we need a guy that makes a serious impact... and if you don't believe any of the QBs are that guy, then what do you do?
In that exact situation, trade down.
I don't want to see another Julio Jones/Phil Taylor situation. If we drop back, I'd prefer to stay before the 20's hit.
As far as the QB's go, if you don't like a guy at 4, then don't turn around and like them at any other 1st round pick... I think QB's in the draft are different than everyone else in that sense... If you aren't in love with a guy but want to take a middle to late flier on him? That's totally cool but I hate the idea of wanting a guy like Carr at 26, but not at 4. I don't think that's smart.
I agree with this, but only in part. The thing is that there is quite a large gap between the 4th and 26th picks and the circumstances that go in between could indicate what happens at #26.
The Browns could prefer to get a player at #35 but circumstances might indicate that they have to take him sooner than that, or a person that they could like at #4 is available but they rate someone else higher and they take the higher rated player instead, especially if that player falls to them unexpectedly at #4.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
MMQB
Quote:
Houston, at No. 1, isn’t set on Jadeveon Clowney. In fact, one FORS (Friend of Rick Smith) told me the Texans general manager likes Khalil Mack over Clowney, and we still don’t know which quarterback Houston would choose if it chooses one first overall. I still think the Texans would go with a more sure thing with the first overall pick than a quarterback—and that sure thing could also be tackle Greg Robinson. But imagine Mack, the outside linebacker from the University of Buffalo, being the first pick in a stacked draft. Wouldn’t that be something—a second straight Mid-American Conference player (Eric Fisher, Central Michigan, by Kansas City) as the top pick in the NFL draft?
I like Khalil Mack over Clowney too and if they were both on the board when the Browns draft at #4, I choose Mack and let Oakland take either Clowney or work a deal where they get some additional picks from his being there at #5. The Good Lord knows that they could use the picks.
If I'm the captain of Houston's boat, I'm drafting Khalil Mack at #1 and not looking back.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
No harm really, except the fact you're neglecting other areas that are "less packed with qualified people/talent" and/or not having any depth/talent at all for an area that we could get by, and get by pretty well IMO, with the group of players we have already.
Kruger gets ripped cause the man had low sack numbers and then people end the story right then-n-there. He had 15 or so QB hurries, top 10 in the NFL last season for OLBs. Yeah, be nice to have seen some of them turn into sacks, but to dog him cause they didn't and to say he wasn't disruptive is a statement made by those with blinders on. Most of those "almost-sacks" you can thank Chris Owens and/or Craig Roberston for blowing their coverage all the time and allowing qb's to slice us up...
I'm not saying that he wasn't an effective pass rusher. I'm only saying that he was better as a situational pass rusher than as a full-time player. He should go back to the role he had in BallsNoMore and fit right in that same role with the Browns.
Let's say that's true about blown coverages (and I think that's why Owens was cut), getting the LB that can fall back into coverage (which Dansby also does well) is a good fit. Mack can pass rush and fall back into coverage. Having two very nice LBs back there (and Robertson has better coverage skills than most think) that can cover isn't a bad thing. In my view, Robertson was hampered by D'Qwell Jackson's inability to cover anything, not even his own shadow.
Quote:
Pretty short but I don't know why that statement has anything to do with literally anything that had been said. You said "you don't want another Julis Peppers" and I replied with that. So what is the point you're trying to make in the case of the Browns drafting Mack with that?????????
Well, I wasn't the one that compared him to Julius Peppers. Take a glance at my signature/tagline and you won't see the name Julius Peppers there.
Let's see, the 'Steel Curtain', the 'Purple People Eaters', the 'Monsters of the Midway', 'Orange Crush', the 'New York Sack Exchange'. the 'Dome Patrol', the 'Wrecking Crew', the 'Doomsday Defense'. I'm sure there are few more that could be added.
Those teams all had defenses that were stifling. There are a few others and then a few more that don't even have names assigned to them.
Quote:
Truthfully, I didn't know Groves was a FA next season. But still it doesn't make sense to have a basket full of stellar rushing linebackers.
Why not? I don't think you're going to like Mike Pettine's stay in Cleveland then. 
Quote:
How do you split reps up come practice and game day? Whose to get more snaps than the other, when technically all of them are disruptive? Would it cause animosity amongst the group having so many bodies to split reps with? I don't know, doubtfully but hey... when there are dire needs elsewhere, IMO, we should then "go elsewhere" instead of looking at Mack.
What dire needs do we have elsewhere? Mack is back on the OL for at least the next two seasons. You could certainly use an OG or two, maybe another WR and a CB. You can get an NFL starting quality QB in the 2nd or even 3rd round. I dare say that you could get one in a trade (I'd check with Tampa Bay to see what it would cost to pry Mike Glennon from them. ) or draft one in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Can you think of another place where the Browns should get more depth at a position? Use the later round picks on them.
Quote:
IMO and I'll leave it at this, drafting Mack is like buying another Reese Cup when you have a desk drawer full of reese cups. Yes, each one is scrumptious, delicious and appealing... each one has virtually the same traits/abilities, but what you really need is a protein bar or a fiber bar lol instead of another reese cup!
Just eat your Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and be happy!
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
I agree. By saying everything screams QB I was saying their team needs and off-season moves.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I agree. By saying everything screams QB I was saying their team needs and off-season moves.
Well, I don't dispute that the Texans will draft a QB in the NFL. I just don't think that it means that they'll draft one at #1. I'm not sure that they won't trade for one. I've mentioned that I wouldn't mind one bit finding out what Tampa wants for Mike Glennon. It appears obvious that the Buccaneers aren't going to use him as their QB. Maybe the Texans will look at that too. I'm sure that a few QB 'needy' teams might inquire.
Smith made it abundantly clear that Tampa Bay would draft one early in the draft (smoke? I don't think so.) McCown isn't going to give them much and he was brought in to be the starter over Glennon (Yeah, it's crazy, but it's the truth.) The Buccaneers will draft a QB, probably high (maybe even the first round) and move on from there. Even though the team used a 3rd rounder on him just last year, he probably won't be the QB going forward for them and they might just take a 3rd day selection for him. I think he's worth every bit of that. I wouldn't be upset if the Browns made such a trade, but the Texans could also and get a fine QB to be the starter and still use all their first and second day picks on other players. A top DL or OL player, a LB, CB, S, or even a RB. Foster's durability is an issue.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,560
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,560 |
They will take try to jump back into the first for Metlenberger. They love the guy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Absolutely sold on a QB?
Who are you "absolutely sold" on? Any position?
Clowney? LMAO...........the guy who has no gap integrity. Cuts classes. Sleeps in those he does attend. Doesn't practice hard. Takes himself out of games. Need I go on? You are "sold" on him? Really?
What about Watkins? Arrested. Some inconsistency concerns. A #2 WR at 4th overall? Caught a huge number of WR screens. You are "sold" on him? Were you sold on Leon?
Mack? LOL.............he is an outside linebacker. We have outside linebackers. Good ones. Move him to ILBer? Who the hell takes ILBers that high? Are you POSITIVE he will transition to that position?
Need I go on?
No one is sold on anyone. They ALL HAVE QUESTION MARKS.
I'm sick of the stupid argument that all the qbs have question marks. All these guys have question marks.
How did Tony Mandarcih work out?
TRich was a great pick, eh?
Aundrey Bruce? Can't miss guy. Oopps.
Brian Bosworth. Wow, what a player. He got Bo Jacksoned and sucked.
Charles Rodgers, a can't miss WR. Uhmmm........he sucked.
Who did Detroit draft a year later? Mike Williams? How did that work out?
Speaking of WRs: David Terrell. Remember Diam's chant? He wasn't the only one. A can't miss guy.
Reggie Williams? Do you even remember him. Number 9 overall pick.
Troy Williamson at number 7. Troy Who?
There are more, but it is time to move on. How about linebackers?
Rolando McClain. A stud from the best program in the land. Bust!!!
Aaron Curry was drafted 4th overall. I remember all the hype. Can't miss. Sorry. Huge miss.
Vernon Gholston was drafted 6th overall. How did that work out?
Do you remember Trev Alberts? Colt's fans do. He was drafted 5th overall. Another can't miss guy.
Derreck Harvey was drafted 8th overall. Do you even remember him?
Quentin Coryett or something like that was drafted second overall. Me not remembering how to spell his name should tell you something.
Have I made my point, yet? Or, do you want more?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
They will take try to jump back into the first for Metlenberger. They love the guy.
Who will? The Texans? Well, they could do that and it might not take them very much to do it since they have the first pick in the 2nd. How far they'll have to move up is a question. They could have to move above Arizona at #20, although I'm not sure that they will replace Palmer just yet, they have to at least consider it and #20 isn't too high to take a QB for the future that will wait a year or two.
If the Cardinals don't take him, it's quite possible that the Browns could take Mettenberger at #26.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,013
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,013 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Everything screams QB for the Texans. Except the red flags around all of the QBs.
What about the red flags around all the other top prospects?
Hence the reason they prefer Khalil Mack over Clowney.
You don't think the tape showing Mack only makes plays from one side of the ball is a red flag? I find that to be a huge red flag personally. Flip him to the other side, or inside (even though people are saying he can convert to ILB) and he is manhandled. Huge red flag.
Watch the games and tell me specific plays that he isn't handled from both sides of the ball...can't do it, I have watched the games.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
Absolutely sold on a QB?
Who are you "absolutely sold" on? Any position?
Clowney? LMAO...........the guy who has no gap integrity. Cuts classes. Sleeps in those he does attend. Doesn't practice hard. Takes himself out of games. Need I go on? You are "sold" on him? Really?
What about Watkins? Arrested. Some inconsistency concerns. A #2 WR at 4th overall? Caught a huge number of WR screens. You are "sold" on him? Were you sold on Leon?
Mack? LOL.............he is an outside linebacker. We have outside linebackers. Good ones. Move him to ILBer? Who the hell takes ILBers that high? Are you POSITIVE he will transition to that position?
Need I go on?
No one is sold on anyone. They ALL HAVE QUESTION MARKS.
I'm sick of the stupid argument that all the qbs have question marks. All these guys have question marks.
How did Tony Mandarcih work out?
TRich was a great pick, eh?
Aundrey Bruce? Can't miss guy. Oopps.
Brian Bosworth. Wow, what a player. He got Bo Jacksoned and sucked.
Charles Rodgers, a can't miss WR. Uhmmm........he sucked.
Who did Detroit draft a year later? Mike Williams? How did that work out?
Speaking of WRs: David Terrell. Remember Diam's chant? He wasn't the only one. A can't miss guy.
Reggie Williams? Do you even remember him. Number 9 overall pick.
Troy Williamson at number 7. Troy Who?
There are more, but it is time to move on. How about linebackers?
Rolando McClain. A stud from the best program in the land. Bust!!!
Aaron Curry was drafted 4th overall. I remember all the hype. Can't miss. Sorry. Huge miss.
Vernon Gholston was drafted 6th overall. How did that work out?
Do you remember Trev Alberts? Colt's fans do. He was drafted 5th overall. Another can't miss guy.
Derreck Harvey was drafted 8th overall. Do you even remember him?
Quentin Coryett or something like that was drafted second overall. Me not remembering how to spell his name should tell you something.
Have I made my point, yet? Or, do you want more?
Yup, they're all risks.
There's a general assumption with football fans that OL in the top ten is a "safe" pick. No pick is safe. Having a QB bust looks worse, but I've seen plenty of tackles get drafted high and turn into garbage... Robert Gallery. Every old Browns fan curmudgeon wanted him drafted... Get off my lawn.
That's what makes the draft fun... The whole thing is a giant risk. It's the game within the game.
Every 2 or 3 years, there is a player that I see as a guarantee. Andrew Luck was that guy 2 years ago. I knew Calvin Johnson would be great... I think a lot of people saw Joe Thomas as one of those... This year I don't see any of those guys. Clowney should be one of them, but after his last season at South Carolina, I wonder if he's still going to be motivated when he gets paid. Who knows. He's still the top talent, but I don't feel the way I do about him like I did with Luck and Johnson, etc..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869 |
So if they're all risks, why not take the biggest risk reward possible and just muscle up and take a QB. I don't get the logic around here, this happens every single year and it's maddening.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,013
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,013 |
Quote:
Quote:
Everything screams QB for the Texans. Except the red flags around all of the QBs.
Why does it scream QB at all? The Texans hold sole possession of the first pick in every round of the NFL draft.
My guess is that they're less enthralled with these QB choices and think that they can get one just as well in the 2nd round (or even the 3rd round) as they could get with any of these guys.
If these QBs aren't surefire #1 overall worthy in the eyes of the Texans front office, the Texans won't take one. It's easy to understand. They'll take one when they want and not a pick sooner and it doesn't matter what the mock drafters have to say about it. I'm rather certain that they would rather sell the selection to the highest bidder if they felt the value was there for them.
What I think is happening is the same crap that happens every year. It's how front offices around the league got around to drafting RG3 (and giving up the ridiculous draft picks) or Ryan Tannehill or Brandon Weeden in 2012 or Blaine Gabbert or Christian Ponder in 2011. You could go back further and see that EVERY year, there seems to be at least one team making that same mistake.
I have a very hard time believing they are NOT completely sold on a QB..
Why would they trade the QB that took them to the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years if they weren't sold on one of them?
That is where I am saying you are wrong..buying into the talking heads telling you none of these QBs are worthy. I fully believe that these DO believe in 2-3 of these QBs and I am not simply sitting on an island waiting to be rescued.
Imagine for a second, the original analysis of not 1, 2, or even 3 QBs being top 5 worthy...But 4!
Back in December and January...Bridgewater was an undisputed top 2 draft pick based on game film..The only arguable opponent for #1 overall was Clowney.
Then, you had Manziel, Bortles and Carr as candidates for top 5 picks to round out the top 5...again based on game film..
Only after Carr's ONE SINGLE GAME against USC, did he drop all the way possibly out of the first round...by the experts, not necessarily the REAL experts, which are NFL GMs.
Manziel and Bortles were also touted as top 5 picks and haven't done anything to change that status except have 4 months of nothing to do but move prospects up and down boards in order to keep fans interested.
What is more likely from a GMs standpoint, not a fan? A player that was rated very high from game film, stays highly rated..or he drops out of the first round because ESPN said he had a bad pro day? Immediately following the pro day, their were NFL people who said it wasn't bad, missed a couple throws..and on air talking heads screaming one of the worst pro days they had ever seen...and it all blew up.
Truth is, it was a boring pro day, because he simply did what he needed to do. Nothing more...boring...
He still did more than Bortles, but it was boring..That is the cause of his historical drop? Really?
I believe the Texans have the #1 overall draft pick, so they don't have to hide their cards, and didn't. In fact I think they showed their hand when they traded their playoff caliber QB away...They DO like a QB very much and that will be their draft pick come May 8th.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027 |
Quote:
So if they're all risks, why not take the biggest risk reward possible and just muscle up and take a QB. I don't get the logic around here, this happens every single year and it's maddening.
Yup, I want them to go QB. I just have a hard time believing they will. Maybe it's just BBFS (battered browns fan syndrome)
I still believe that if they like any of these QB's it's more likely than not that the may all be there at 4...
My only worries are someone trading up with STL to get one of them. And Jacksonville seems to have some interest in Johnny.
I had hockey on the 8th and got someone to take my ice time. LOL. Browns fans.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 376
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 376 |
Quote:
Quote:
You win w/QBs in the NFL.
Truth...
I think this is to simplified. The best QB's in the NFL did not win the Super Bowl last year. There are other ways to win outside of a great QB. The Browns are closer to being the Seattle Seahawks than the New England Patriots or Denver Broncos. Go best talent and if on defense, go defense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 376
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 376 |
I feel that we are better at QB right now. Hoyer is an upgrade to Campbell and Weeden. Tate will be an upgrade at RB. Hawkins is an upgrade at the slot receiver. We have upgraded at defense imho as well. For goodness sakes we nearly beat Tom Brady with Jason Campbell. I like the idea of being bold. Build a defense that makes teams quake when the come to the lake.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You win w/QBs in the NFL.
Truth...
I think this is to simplified. The best QB's in the NFL did not win the Super Bowl last year. There are other ways to win outside of a great QB. The Browns are closer to being the Seattle Seahawks than the New England Patriots or Denver Broncos. Go best talent and if on defense, go defense.
We are light years away from being the Seahawks.
Seattle is a great model. Strong running game, solid QB play, and the best defense in the league.
But rarely do you hit on All Pro DBs in the 5th round, let alone 2.
The easiest, and BEST way to be constantly a contender, is to have a Top Tier QB. Without it, you're hoping your defense can hold the other team.
I think we are a ILB away from having a solid defense, maybe grab another corner to push Skrine (who I don't think gets enough credit)
But you HAVE to get a QB. Because if you get the QB this draft, it's the best draft ever, regardless of what else happens.
I take Teddy at 4. Either a CB or WR at 26. Hopefully theres a solid guard there in the 2nd round. If not possibly your ILB. Then in the 3rd I grab whatever I haven't gotten out of that list yet.
I let Teddy and Hoyer fight it out. REALLY fight it out, Hoyer doesn't have a step up anymore, new scheme and all. The best guy wins. And he gets the whole season.
Last edited by ThatGuy; 04/23/14 08:34 AM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You win w/QBs in the NFL.
Truth...
I think this is to simplified. The best QB's in the NFL did not win the Super Bowl last year. There are other ways to win outside of a great QB. The Browns are closer to being the Seattle Seahawks than the New England Patriots or Denver Broncos. Go best talent and if on defense, go defense.
That's a very good point, bro. A very good point.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869 |
Ridiculous. The last team to win a superbowl before this year that didn't have an Elite or a 1st round QB on their Roster (Brees and Brady are the non 1st rounders) before this season was the 2003 Tampa Bay bucs and that was BEFORE the rule changes protecting QB's and WR's.
We're talking over a decade of teams with 1st round pick and/or elite QB's between Superbowl winners and the justification is "well Seatlle did it".
Nonsense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You win w/QBs in the NFL.
Truth...
I think this is to simplified. The best QB's in the NFL did not win the Super Bowl last year. There are other ways to win outside of a great QB. The Browns are closer to being the Seattle Seahawks than the New England Patriots or Denver Broncos. Go best talent and if on defense, go defense.
We are light years away from being the Seahawks.
Are we really? Okay, how about being close to being the San Francisco 49ers?
Quote:
Seattle is a great model. Strong running game, solid QB play, and the best defense in the league.
Similar to the 49ers.
Quote:
But rarely do you hit on All Pro DBs in the 5th round, let alone 2.
You can if you draft players that fit. Besides, who said we had to hit on ones in the 5th or 6th round? How about we just hit on a few draft picks in the 1st round for a change?
Quote:
The easiest, and BEST way to be constantly a contender, is to have a Top Tier QB. Without it, you're hoping your defense can hold the other team.
When was the last time Tom Brady or Peyton Manning won the Super Bowl?
Quote:
I think we are a ILB away from having a solid defense, maybe grab another corner to push Skrine (who I don't think gets enough credit)
Okay, then why not draft a LB that can play either inside or outside? A linebacker that can fall into coverage and rush the QB? Nobody is saying that we shouldn't draft a corner. But, that's another defensive position, isn't it?
Quote:
But you HAVE to get a QB. Because if you get the QB this draft, it's the best draft ever, regardless of what else happens.
Didn't we say that 2 years ago? Didn't we say that 7 years ago? Just say 'no' to a QB high in the draft and it isn't needed in the first round. Russell Wilson proves it. Kaepernick proves it.
Quote:
I take Teddy at 4. Either a CB or WR at 26. Hopefully theres a solid guard there in the 2nd round. If not possibly your ILB. Then in the 3rd I grab whatever I haven't gotten out of that list yet.
That's silly. Teddy Bridgewater at #4? In which round? So, you go in without a plan and without a draft board? You just 'wing it'?
Quote:
I let Teddy and Hoyer fight it out. REALLY fight it out, Hoyer doesn't have a step up anymore, new scheme and all. The best guy wins. And he gets the whole season.
Teddy Bridgewater would probably lose to either Brandon Weeden or Jason Campbell (if they were still here).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
We're talking over a decade of teams with 1st round pick and/or elite QB's between Superbowl winners and the justification is "well Seatlle did it".
Nonsense.
What's nonsense is thinking that Seattle did it without elite QB play. Wilson played as well as any other QB in the playoffs last year, just because he wasn't asked to throw it 40 times a game doesn't diminish how well he played.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,013
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,013 |
Quote:
Quote:
We're talking over a decade of teams with 1st round pick and/or elite QB's between Superbowl winners and the justification is "well Seatlle did it".
Nonsense.
What's nonsense is thinking that Seattle did it without elite QB play. Wilson played as well as any other QB in the playoffs last year, just because he wasn't asked to throw it 40 times a game doesn't diminish how well he played.
Not to mention, Wilson WAS/always has been elite...But stubborn NFL GMs passed on him because of his stature.
Well, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279 |
Quote:
We are light years away from being the Seahawks.
ThatGuy, I found this statement interesting. Not to start WWIII or belittle, but how so?
Seahawk Starters:
Offense:
WR: Baldwin & Tate
OL: Okung, Carpenter, Unger, Sweezy, & Giacomini
TE: Miller
QB: Wilson
FB: Robinson
RB: Lynch
Other than Wilson and Lynch who else do you feel is better? Remember you said "Light Years."
Defense:
DL: Bryant, McDaniel, Mebane, & Clemons
LB: Irvin, Wagner, & Smith
DB: Sherman, Maxwell, Chancellor, and Thomas
Other than Thomas who do you feel is better? Remember Cleveland plays a 3-4. Front seven is rather different to swap. Irvin makes for a good argument. Sherman maybe an improvement over Haden, but I don't think we are talking major upgrade.
For comparison:
Browns:
Offense:
WR: Gordon & Little
OL: Thomas, Greco, Mack, Lauvao (not resigned), & Schwartz
TE: Cameron
QB: Weeden/Hoyer
RB: McGahee (not resigned)
FB: Ogbonnaya
Defense:
DL: Hughes/Bryant, Taylor, & Rubin
LB: Sheard, Robertson, Jackson (Dansby), & Kruger
DB: Haden, Skrine, Gipson, Ward (Whitner)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869 |
They have a QB we don't.
Their Linebackers are way, way better than ours. Their defensive line is more productive and their secondary is better at every single position. Not saying ours is bad, just not as good at any one position on defense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
The biggest thing that stands out to me is Cam Chancellor.. that guy patrols the middle of the field like he owns it and makes you pay for coming into his neighborhood.. he is the one I think you missed.
I do however, agree with your premise.. I believe Seattle is a couple players ahead of us in talent at a couple key positions but the single biggest difference is simple.. attitude.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 305 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
more talent AT KEY POSITIONS.. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279 |
Quote:
They have a QB we don't.
Their Linebackers are way, way better than ours. Their defensive line is more productive and their secondary is better at every single position. Not saying ours is bad, just not as good at any one position on defense.
BpG, I get the QB. Defensive Line more productive? Winn, Bryant, Huges, Taylor, and Rubin is a pretty solid front in a 3-4. One would hope Seattle's front 4 a little more active being a 4-3. I disagree with your LB assessment since adding Dansby. I like an upgrade over Robertson.
Remember comment made was "Light Years" better. As do Seattle, Browns have favorable players in specific positions. For instance, Thomas is an upgrade over Gipson just like Joe T is an upgrade over Okung.
As many stated, add a QB to the Browns and what do you have?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
As many stated, add a QB to the Browns and what do you have?
A heart attack.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,869 |
Quote:
Quote:
They have a QB we don't.
Their Linebackers are way, way better than ours. Their defensive line is more productive and their secondary is better at every single position. Not saying ours is bad, just not as good at any one position on defense.
BpG, I get the QB. Defensive Line more productive? Winn, Bryant, Huges, Taylor, and Rubin is a pretty solid front in a 3-4. One would hope Seattle's front 4 a little more active being a 4-3. I disagree with your LB assessment since adding Dansby. I like an upgrade over Robertson.
Remember comment made was "Light Years" better. As do Seattle, Browns have favorable players in specific positions. For instance, Thomas is an upgrade over Gipson just like Joe T is an upgrade over Okung.
As many stated, add a QB to the Browns and what do you have?
Hopefully a .500 football team. I don't think we're nearly as close as people want to believe.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279 |
Quote:
more talent AT KEY POSITIONS..
DC, looking at both rosters, you most certainly can find this position is better.
I think Browns fixed the RB position. Lynch is a plus over Tate, but you can win with either.
Overall, I say Seattle has Browns beat at safety, Thomas, and QB.
I simply found ThatGuy's statement interesting. When you simple compare both teams, you can make a strong argument Browns are not that far away. Your remark "attitude" is more in play.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279 |
Quote:
Hopefully a .500 football team. I don't think we're nearly as close as people want to believe.
I agree. It takes more than a roster to win games. I was simply pointing out talent is not the major crutch as in the past.
On the flip side, do you think Seattle makes a return visit back to the playoffs?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 80,596
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 80,596 |
Quote:
I don't think we're nearly as close as people want to believe.
It's an annual off-season affliction.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279 |
Quote:
Quote:
I don't think we're nearly as close as people want to believe.
It's an annual off-season affliction.
HOLD ON THERE COWBOY!!!! I'm not one of those people who see greener pastures!
There is a lot to be said changing schemes and coaches every year. Here we see a perfect example. Roster has talent but do to change Browns have lost continuity.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
Quote:
ThatGuy, I found this statement interesting. Not to start WWIII or belittle, but how so?
Watch them play. And watch us play.
Do you think we could of blown out Denver by 35 points? I don't think last years team beats Denver if Brock Oswieler is starting..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 80,596
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 80,596 |
I guess the word "talent" can be perceived in different ways. Do we have players with some talent? Yes we do. Enough of them at key positions? I'm not so sure. Does the overall team play talented? Not at all. And you bring up what I think creates the biggest question mark on how much talent we really do or don't have. We have no continuity in scheme or coaching. IMO, we won't know anything about the talent level of the "team", until they have a chance to work under one scheme for a few years. Individual talent does not equate to a team concept. The term, "there is no I in team" may be a worn out phrase, but cohesive units are what make a team. And that takes time within a system to accomplish. So we are saying the same thing, I just took a slightly more long winded approach.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,279 |
Quote:
Quote:
ThatGuy, I found this statement interesting. Not to start WWIII or belittle, but how so?
Watch them play. And watch us play.
Do you think we could of blown out Denver by 35 points? I don't think last years team beats Denver if Brock Oswieler is starting..
ThatGuy, let's see if they repeat and make the playoffs. I believe they are a bit overrated. It would not shock me if they finish 8-8 or 9-7 this season.
Just as Pitt stated above, they do have teamwork in play. Since this is the NFL, I agree it takes more than a roster.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2014 NFL Season NFL Draft 2014 The Khalil Mack “Problem” for
the Cleveland Browns
|
|
