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your right. he broke the rules. he got caught. and he is going to be punished. end of story.
Bottom line... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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You are correct in that I am assuming that Gordon has only done pot, but I did so because that was the context in which the article was written. Carter has no insight into what Gordon tested positive for any more than we do. (or, at least, he shouldn't)
There were rumors about purple drank ...... and there was a statement from Gordon that he was prescribed medication for strep throat. I think that I also said that it is hard to know what guys test positive for, because the NFL never comments at all, and players can say whatever they want.
If he tested positive for pot, and if he tested positive at a level lower than that which causes problem for pilots, or for IOC athletes, for that matter, then I don't see the value of blowing up a guy's career over that level of use. Is that what happened with Gordon? I don't know for sure. None of us do. What if he tested positive at 16 instead of 15 on the pot test ..... which would be a joint and a hit over the course of 2 weeks? (or so) While I agree that he was stupid to put his career at risk for a joint ...... (which I think we all assume is what happened at this point) I do think that Gordon' problem might well be more of a "can't say no to his friends" as opposed to him having some heavy drug problem.
Once again, I am assuming that Gordon tested positive for pot, at a level above the NFL testing level, but below the standard used by other similar, or more dangerous professions. If he tested positive for crack, or something like that, then he needs to do his time. That I can't, and don't excuse.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't believe we are using it as an excuse. The rules are in place just as they are in most work places. We haven't seen the results of this latest incident and nothing has happened yet.
But if he is suspended, he obviously broke the rules in place yet again for which there is no excuse.
That doesn't mean everyone has to agree with those rules and the laws as it pertains to marijuana.
+1
-1
I agree with Vers. As long as those are the rules in place, it doesn't really matter what we think about the rule.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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J/C
Due to the length of a NFL ruling on JG. He may have had a test on the boarderline of the threshold allowed, or a diluted result. He may have been given a retest and that test came back negative. Now the NFL may backstep and let it ride. Just a thought.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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So, let's blame everyone else for poor Josh's problems and excuse him. After all, he can score TDs and what is more important than that?
When it comes to football? Nothing. I bet that if we surveyed all Browns fans, the vast majority would be okay with Josh Gordon beating the system on a technicality. If blaming anyone other than Josh Gordon would allow him to play, Browns fans would be lining up to point fingers, even the ones who have been clamoring for him to be cut (they only want that because they think it's inevitable that he won't be playing anyway).. And you know what? I'm one of them too. Football isn't about morals. Morals only matter insofar as a player can keep playing. All I care about is being entertained on Sundays, and that's all most Browns fans want as well. I'd make excuses for him all day long if I thought it would have any effect on whether or not he plays. I'm just not as moral as you.
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j/c
I love it when someone posts polls like this. Because it's impossible to skew a poll with an agenda. Almost every time once you start looking into how the data was obtained the agenda is so obvious.
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J/C
Due to the length of a NFL ruling on JG. He may have had a test on the boarderline of the threshold allowed, or a diluted result. He may have been given a retest and that test came back negative. Now the NFL may backstep and let it ride. Just a thought.
Something is going on, that's for sure. The longer this goes, the better it is for Josh. If it were a clear positive test, it would have been announced weeks ago by the league. Maybe the appeal process is what's taking so long, but who knows.
If we have him for all 16, we have him. If not, we get him a few or no games, but we move on. I'm indifferent on the whole thing right now.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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The longer this goes, the better it is for Josh.
I tend to agree with this comment.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I was unaware that Josh Gordon was a 12-17 year old child. Really though, what does this have to do with the thread? No one is advocating for children to smoke here, you're grasping at straws.
When the thread is about Josh Gordon breaking the NFL rules (and the law) and many of the responses are not about Josh Gordon but they are about why the law is stupid and should be changed.. then explaining why the law should NOT be changed seems like a reasonable argument...
yebat' Putin
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The newer studies all show the same thing. It just shows how long they have known Pot is harmful. Just shows that if you addict enough people to something they will find a way to justify it's existence so they can make their money. If anything the older studies have more clarity because now that pot is legal in a few places commercial pot growers are recruiting scientist to create biased studies to tilt the information. Same thing the tobacco industry did when it became obvious that cigarettes increase chances to get cancer dramatically. Alcohol is equally destructive in excessive amounts. For every DUI where someone comes from a Bar the person who served it to him should also go to jail. Just another business taking advantage of an addict and profiting from people's mistakes or misery. Yeah, fast food is BAD for you. The national obesity index shows more and more people dying from being obese every year. It's not ok to be fat. It's killing you. Pot is harmful and destructive. I have personally watched it destroy many people's lives. The results of that study are just as true now as it was back then and those results are FACT from a scientific case study, not opinion. Here are some easier reads for you: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=148793&page=2http://www.brainfacts.org/about-neurosci...brain-function/
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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jc
Pro pot, anti pot, smoke, do smoke, did smoke, never smoke , stupid rule, great rule, dumb law, legal, not legal ... none of that matters, what side of the fence you reside means nothing... the bottom line is these guys get paid, handsomely, to do a job.... one of the aspects is you dont smoke pot or if you do we give you enough notice so you can pass a test...
If you get caught it is on you, addicted or just an idiot? meh, dont know, dont care... bottom line he is pissing away his talents, his money and his life for a weed.
A weed he can enjoy after he retires with a crap load of money, for the rest of his life.... if he cant see that ... to hell with him.
You cant regulate morality and you cant solve stupid.
.02
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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What you keep failing to clarify is that pot is not physically addictive as is alcohol and tobacco.
Many things can be mentally addictive. that comes from the mind, not the body. So there are distinct differences you seem willing to fail to mention here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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What you keep failing to clarify is that pot is not physically addictive as is alcohol and tobacco.
Many things can be mentally addictive. that comes from the mind, not the body. So there are distinct differences you seem willing to fail to mention here.
And what folks that point this out fail to realize is that it is not the physical addiction that is the dangerous thing. Once you've detoxed, the physical addiction is gone.
Nobody with one week of sobriety has ever relapsed due to physical addiction to alcohol.... it is the mental addiction that takes the person back out to try again (and all too frequently, with lethal results).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Good post and spot on.
Gordon's situation isn't about how harmful pot is or isn't. It's about him caring enough about his teammates, his employer, and the fans who support him as he continues to break the rules.
There are many BS laws and rules. I don't like many of the laws that take my hard earned dollars away to support the lazy scum who feel they are entitled to a quality life w/out working for it. It's not fair, but in the grand scheme of things..........who gives a rat's butt? I pay.
Gordon needs to follow the rules and people making excuses for him are not helping the situation. If he doesn't want to follow the NFL rules.........then quit. Let's see how that works out for him.
Man, I am trying to be cool about this........but are you freaking kidding me? Do you realize how many guys would love to be in his position? Do you realize how much professional athletes party? Do you realize how screwed up he has to be to keep failing test after test after test? And you guys are defending this chump? Pfftttttt..
This guy needs a reality check and the excuse makers are not helping the situation.
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j/c
To all the hardliners on this issue, I have a hypothetical question. Suppose the NFL decided to leave the decision on Josh Gordon entirely up to you. Also suppose that Gordon has indeed failed a drug test, and the usual penalty is a one year suspension. But the decision is entirely up to you. What would you do? Would you suspend him for a year to teach him a lesson, or would you let him play from day 1?
The point of this hypothetical has nothing to do with whether or not the current rules are fair, so there's no need for those tired responses. The point of this question is to find out if the hardliners are really as hard as they say they are, or if there isn't a little bit of hypocrisy being thrown around here.
Answer honestly.
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I will answer like this:
I would penalize him according to the written rules. The rules should be written beforehand and the punishments for breaking said rule should also have been in place. I would punish him accordingly as he knew the rules before he committed his infractions.
It's not complicated. It's simple. Follow the rules or get lost.
Now, if the rules are unfair.........let's change them. You wanna make pot legal. Fine. I don't care. However, until it is made legal............the employees must follow the rules.
I am a teacher and I have this theory.................NEVER make unnecessary rules. Have just a few rules and enforce them. If you are not willing to enforce them, then don't make them. It's not about being mean, a jerk, or unfair. It's about maintaining order so the greater good of all can be achieved.
That probably won't make sense to you, but there it is.
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Your post in essence is my stance on the issue, and why I can't understand Gordon's sympathizers. Most of us have some type of wording in our contract that limits our private activity in some form. At my job, I have a plethora of activities I am not allowed to engage in to maintain my employment there. A large portion of the workforce has to take and pass mandatory drug tests........if you don't you get fired pretty simple.
Whether or not weed should be legal or not is pointless in this conversation imo. Gordon knew the rules and broke them...........again and again. He will get disciplined like any of us would at our job. The guy is a goof.......time to move on
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Haden on Gordon: Joe Haden hopes that if Gordon is suspended, it has the same impact on him that Haden's four-game suspension for Adderall had on him in 2012. "When you're away from it, it makes you want it more,'' said Haden. "It makes you miss it. It makes you appreciate it. That's how I kind of took it when I was gone. I wanted to be back and I came back with a more hungry, more wanting to be here feel.'' He acknowledged it would be a shame for the team to be without him. "He's a baller,'' said Haden. "With somebody like that, I hope for the best. I don't really like to talk about the situation, but JG is what he is. He's a really good player, solid and a great player and he'll help out the team and it'll definitely be a big loss but that's why we have depth right now and people have to step up.'' http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._medium=twitter
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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LOL..............sounds like Haden knows he is guilty.
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Quote:
I will answer like this:
I would penalize him according to the written rules. The rules should be written beforehand and the punishments for breaking said rule should also have been in place. I would punish him accordingly as he knew the rules before he committed his infractions.
It's not complicated. It's simple. Follow the rules or get lost.
Now, if the rules are unfair.........let's change them. You wanna make pot legal. Fine. I don't care. However, until it is made legal............the employees must follow the rules.
I am a teacher and I have this theory.................NEVER make unnecessary rules. Have just a few rules and enforce them. If you are not willing to enforce them, then don't make them. It's not about being mean, a jerk, or unfair. It's about maintaining order so the greater good of all can be achieved.
That probably won't make sense to you, but there it is.
That sums it up very well!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c
To all the hardliners on this issue, I have a hypothetical question. Suppose the NFL decided to leave the decision on Josh Gordon entirely up to you. Also suppose that Gordon has indeed failed a drug test, and the usual penalty is a one year suspension. But the decision is entirely up to you. What would you do? Would you suspend him for a year to teach him a lesson, or would you let him play from day 1?
The point of this hypothetical has nothing to do with whether or not the current rules are fair, so there's no need for those tired responses. The point of this question is to find out if the hardliners are really as hard as they say they are, or if there isn't a little bit of hypocrisy being thrown around here.
Answer honestly.
Simple, the rules as they are written and agreed upon today indicate that he should be suspended. Since I don't know for sure how many times he's failed, I'll leave the amount ot time on suspension stand under the rules.
That doesn't mean I agree with the rule, just means that these are the rules and he needs to be smart enough to live within them.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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j/c
Huh, well not sure what I was expecting, but you guys sure are fixated on "the rules." Maybe you're just more principled than me, but if that decision was up to me, as a Browns fan, I'd let him play from game 1.
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Maybe you're just more principled than me, but if that decision was up to me, as a Browns fan, I'd let him play from game 1.
I can't believe anyone is saying otherwise with a straight face.
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I can't believe anyone is saying otherwise with a straight face.
+1
Even the marijuana should be against the law folks would want Gordon to get off as light as possible I'd imagine............
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Maybe you're just more principled than me, but if that decision was up to me, as a Browns fan, I'd let him play from game 1.
I can't believe anyone is saying otherwise with a straight face.
Thank you. I was starting to think I was the crazy one. I don't think they really understand the point of the hypothetical.
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I understand just fine. Don't ask questions if you don't want to hear the opinions of others.
Just call those of us who disagree w/you "crazy" for having a different opinion. That is a lot more efficient.
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Makes perfect sense to me and I agree with it. Whatever the rule/punishment is.. that's what he should be given.
Now, if you were to ask me what I think the rule should be, I'll give you this... I think 6 games is reasonable and I think he should be tested every week for at least the next 2 years.
yebat' Putin
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It will be interesting to see if they tweak the rule.
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As a fan of the Browns, I hope they do change the rules to allow Gordon to have a lesser suspension or no suspension at all.
But I think the rules are, for better or worse, the rules and he needs to live within them.
I keep wondering if the reason for the delay on Gordon isn't somehow related to the drafting of Manziel and what it would do for the game from a PR standpoint if Johnny has Gordon as a target?
Just the ramblings of a lubricated mind I guess.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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I'm done with Gordon. If he is available for a few games, then that's fine. If he's not, then he's not. He will probably get cut at some point and I'm fine with that. What's the point in having a great player if he can't get on the field because of a failure to follow some pretty simple rules?
Changing the rules may or may not make a difference with him. I'm thinking it won't.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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I keep wondering if the reason for the delay on Gordon isn't somehow related to the drafting of Manziel
I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory but it does beg the question, if the rule and the punishment are actually spelled out somewhere, what are they waiting for? Make the announcement..
Heck to tie 2 things together, it's taking how many months to figure out what to do about this? It took the NBA less than a month to force a guy to sell his billion dollar business because he made some racist comments.. and the NFL can't decide a pot punishment in half a year? Really...
yebat' Putin
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I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory but it does beg the question, if the rule and the punishment are actually spelled out somewhere, what are they waiting for? Make the announcement..
I'm not big on conspiracy either, but I asked that because I essentially have the same question as you, whats the hold up, what's taking so long to make an announcement?
I guess it could be that they are sorting out the failed test vs the missed test as has been reported. Not sure.. Not sure of anything.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory but it does beg the question, if the rule and the punishment are actually spelled out somewhere, what are they waiting for? Make the announcement..
I'm not big on conspiracy either, but I asked that because I essentially have the same question as you, whats the hold up, what's taking so long to make an announcement?
I guess it could be that they are sorting out the failed test vs the missed test as has been reported. Not sure.. Not sure of anything.
I think it falls into a very grey area legally and lawyers are involved and they want to make the correct ruling.
Joe Thomas #73
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Pettine: C'mon Commish. Pot isn't THAT big a deal.
Goodell: Maybe not. But I have a reputation to keep. I'm sure you understand that.
Pettine: I certainly do, Roger. Can I call you Roger? I also understand you want to increase revenue streams by marketing top players in the NFL. I've got your future marketing champion in Manziel. You know the guy that makes the money sign in the air and children all across the country are joining in with him. I got pictures right here on my phone....I'll show you.
Goodell: Possibly.
Pettine: Don't give me "possibly". He's a gold mine and you know it. However, I really think Hoyer is securely ahead of Manziel in just about every way. It's a shame those marketing dollars will have to ride the bench this year..... maybe even a few years if Hoyer takes advantage of his chance. Heck, just the other day Farmer was talking about a possible contract extension w/ his agent. We really like him.
Goodell: Alright, alright. I'm smelling what you're stepping in. So what do you want?
Pettine: I want Gordon. You want Manziel. I'm sure we can come to a reasonable, mutually beneficial conclusion to this mess, can't we?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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It really doesn't matter.. He knew the rules.. He knew he had to stay clean and had to stay away from any and all substances on the banned list.. He also knew what the list was.. and did not act accordingly. Acting accordingly also means staying away from second hand smoke. Now he needs to face the punishment. As Browns fan.. I hope he gets off easy.. that is why there are appeals and rulings by the Commissioner.. but I do not expect lienency and I'm ok with him getting a year off.. It may wake him up 
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Pettine: C'mon Commish. Pot isn't THAT big a deal.
Goodell: Maybe not. But I have a reputation to keep. I'm sure you understand that.
Pettine: I certainly do, Roger. Can I call you Roger? I also understand you want to increase revenue streams by marketing top players in the NFL. I've got your future marketing champion in Manziel. You know the guy that makes the money sign in the air and children all across the country are joining in with him. I got pictures right here on my phone....I'll show you.
Goodell: Possibly.
Pettine: Don't give me "possibly". He's a gold mine and you know it. However, I really think Hoyer is securely ahead of Manziel in just about every way. It's a shame those marketing dollars will have to ride the bench this year..... maybe even a few years if Hoyer takes advantage of his chance. Heck, just the other day Farmer was talking about a possible contract extension w/ his agent. We really like him.
Goodell: Alright, alright. I'm smelling what you're stepping in. So what do you want?
Pettine: I want Gordon. You want Manziel. I'm sure we can come to a reasonable, mutually beneficial conclusion to this mess, can't we?
You forgot this part...
Pettine: Roger, this is a really nice place you got here. Be a shame if anything happened to it. How's the wife and kids? Aren't they all spending the day together at the mall today? Just sayin'....
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Quote:
I don't subscribe to the conspiracy theory but it does beg the question, if the rule and the punishment are actually spelled out somewhere, what are they waiting for? Make the announcement..
I'm not big on conspiracy either, but I asked that because I essentially have the same question as you, whats the hold up, what's taking so long to make an announcement?
I guess it could be that they are sorting out the failed test vs the missed test as has been reported. Not sure.. Not sure of anything.
Because they need to go through their appeal process.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,765
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,765 |
Which is where I'm confused. I didn't think you could even appeal a suspension until one was announced. How is it that an appeal can be made until a suspension has been announced?
I've never heard of the process working that way before. If there has been no suspension given, what is there to appeal?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,544 |
Quote:
Which is where I'm confused. I didn't think you could even appeal a suspension until one was announced. How is it that an appeal can be made until a suspension has been announced?
I've never heard of the process working that way before. If there has been no suspension given, what is there to appeal?
Two sources told "Outside the Lines" on Friday that Gordon's latest violation is the result of marijuana being found during a drug test. One source said Gordon received a letter in early winter from a league physician stating he had failed a test. A second letter, informing Gordon that he faced a 16-game suspension but had the right to appeal, was sent in late April.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/1...long-suspension
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
Quote:
Which is where I'm confused. I didn't think you could even appeal a suspension until one was announced. How is it that an appeal can be made until a suspension has been announced?
I've never heard of the process working that way before. If there has been no suspension given, what is there to appeal?
I think it's a drug only rule/precedent.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon Faces Year-Long
Suspension Part 2
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