I understand what your saying, and i can't really disagree with any of it.
I guess the real question is how do the browns build their draft board. Is it talent, scheme, stats, maturity, morales, and need?
Do they give a weight to all these things and then stack the board?
I simply believe that they stuck to their board. At 35 like you said if it was the choice between a guard (which i think was the 2nd off the board) or a receiver, (which wouldl have been the 6th if we took one)
Or you could look at it this way...we got our 1st choice at corner, our 1st or 2nd at qb, and our 1st or 2nd at guard. Should we have taken what could have been our 6th choice at receiver?
Knee jerk reactions, and panic, never result in good choices. They don't seem to have done that, and I for one am happy.
I don't think that Haslam ordered the pick. However, when you are in the draft war room and your BOSS is talking up "Johnny Football", as an employee of this owner under the boss of the franchise, you have to think that 'if I don't make good on what this owner is insinuating, I could be out of a job. If it pans out everyone wins, if it doesn't it shows Haslam even more that I know my stuff'. So it was a win/win for Farmer IMO if this did, in fact, happen.
So, in other words, did Haslam order the pick, or do I think the draft selection was changed at the last minute - NO. JMHO
But I do I think that Farmer [n]MAY have made the pick knowing that his boss wanted it happen. Very possibly.
EIther way, we end up with a QB that has the best chance of all the QB's of having the talent and charisma that Cleveland so desperately needs. 'The next Broadway Joe so I hope :-) .
So even if Haslam influenced the pick, but didn't order it himself, it might have been for the better. Haslam knows how to turn around a business entity and he knows that in the NFL under Roone that wins mean everything, not jersey sales or publicity; or he wouldn't be behind barring the National Media from Rookie Minicamp.
Quote: Well Tab, I don't think a G has ever won a SB for a team either.
Nah but an OL UNIT has - Hogs for one. Big part of the Cowboy dynasty was their OL n especially their guards.
I just recall how very strong you said we were in that unit going into the draft, so I just found it odd that you may not have seen it as something that wasn't needed at all.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Question for you...you long stated that your top two QBs were Bridgewater and Manziel. You even alluded to the FO being stupid if they don't get one of those two. They did get one of the two.
So let's recap. We had a glaring need at the most important position in all of sports. You wanted them to fill that position with one of two guys. Not only did they do that, they got the highest rated CB in the draft and an extra first.
Quote: It is your perfect right to be as miserably unhappy as you want to be, and choose to be.
You can be pessimistic if you want. I rather like a lot of what Farmer has done so far.
What the hell are you talking about? Miserably unhappy and pessimistic? WTH?
You are same guy who had the Three Stooges quote in your freaking sig.
Maybe you should re-read your last 100 or so posts. Yeah, miserably unhappy is the way I would categorize them. It is the way you come across to me. (and I think, to others as well)
I did call the former brain trust the 3 stooges, and it was because that was the way they acted. It was a simple manner of expressing my dissatisfaction with the moves they made, and what I saw as the sleazy way they made them.
2 of them have now been fired, so it appears that Haslam agreed with that assessment. Overall I like that decision, and others that Haslam has made lately ..... so I removed it. It didn't stick with me. It wouldn't have anyway. By the time the season rolled around, I would have been back to being upbeat and optimistic, as I try to be. I don't hold those grudges forever. You never seem to get to happy and/or upbeat anymore. No matter what Farmer does, you seem to dislike it. It is like you do exactly what you accuse others of in reverse.
I am curious ..... how do you feel about the job Farmer did with the OL now that the picture is clearer? You blasted him left and right, calling him an idiot for not signing a FA Guard. Now that he has drafted a highly regarded Guard, how do you feel about that unit? (and before anyone asks, personally, I can accept that Bitonio will be a good addition, and believe that he will strengthen the unit, while still believing that WR was the better option there)
You said that he was 100% going to screw up the QB spot. He drafted one of the 2 guys you, IIRC, liked most. The other guy almost slipped out of the 1st round. Every team that had a 1st round pick passed on Bridgewater at least once.
I am not 100% sold on every move that Farmer has made, but on balance I like his moves. I think that Manziel was the biggest boom/bust option available to us, and worth a shot. I like that Farmer also then backed that option up with the fact that he was able to add a second, likely high, 1st round pick in next year's draft as well. He added ammunition if he feels that he has to make another move for a QB then. I think that was a worthwhile risk, with a solid backup plan.
I gave Banner credit where credit is due. He made the moves that allowed the Browns to move up and grab Manziel. I believe that I even mentioned during the draft thread at the time that we used 2 Banner picks to trade up for Manziel. I said at the time, and afterwards, that both of those trade were good moves. (and the other trade with the Colts)
Back to what I see when I read your posts ..... your posts too often come off as someone who is really unhappy, and who takes Browns moves way too personally. That's just my opinion .... but it is what I see. It is like you are going in reverse of what you accuse others of ...... you're going to blast Farmer and Browns moves, because others blasted Banner and the moves he made. I find it really ironic that you can't see it.
Anyway, I sincerely hope that you have a full recovery from your current medical problem. I know that you don't want any sympathy "niceness posts", so I hope that I succeeded in not giving you any there. I will say that I have prayed for your full and speedy recovery from the surgery you face, and will continue to do so. Get well soon, you complete pain in the butt.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
You know what? Who really gives a crap!? Johnny Manziel is Brown and Teddy Bridgewater isn't. I've liked Manziel better the whole time anyways. The 'IT' factor he has is what this city needs. Not the mild-mannered, soft spoken Bridgewater IMO.
Also, people love to bash Johnny for allegedly not focusing enough on football and too much on smack talk. Well then why did Bridgewater have to go out and say that "I didn't want to be a Brown."???
Sounds like the new Viking's QB is doing more smack talking than Johnny Manziel up to this point..and it sounds like he is just butthurt for not getting picked by us and wanted to retaliate.
Johnny Manziel is our QB, bottom line, and we should be happy for him. Can't wait to see Manziel Vs. Bridgewater one day. Should be a compelling matchup.
I think that Manziel will either be a spectacular superstar, or a spectacular, all time bust. I don't think that there is middle ground with him. Either he learns to handle an NFL offense, or he doesn't.
I'm OK with that. I think that he was well worth the risk, especially given that he was picked with an extra 1st round pick this year, and we also gained an extra 1st round pick in next year's draft just in case.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Yes he is worth the risk, I think the organization sees the difference between a starting QB and a Franchise QB, and Johnny may be that man.
Do you see Johnny as a "starter" or a "franchise QB?"
At this point, I'm so torn on the guy (like a lot of people I think). I don't know what to expect because he's so different than most other QBs; his skillset could either bring a new wrinkle to the NFL and set the Browns into orbit, or it could totally flop and set the Browns back another year or two.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Loggains: Haslam said “pull the trigger” on Manziel
Browns owner Jimmy Haslam didn’t give the order to draft Johnny Manziel. Unless he did.
Despite an insistence from G.M. Ray Farmer that Haslam “at no point demanded, requested, tried to influence the process in any way,” quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains said Thursday that, after Manziel sent Loggains a “come and get me” text, Haslam issued the directive.
“As soon as that happened, Mr. Haslam said, ‘Pull the trigger. We’re trading up to go get this guy,’” Loggains told Bo Mattingly of ESPN Arkansas, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.
Loggains explained that the text from Manziel said, “‘I wish you guys would come get me. Hurry up and draft me because I want to be there. I want to wreck this league together.’”
It’s not a surprise. At all. Haslam wants to run the show without leaving obvious fingerprints, since he knows he’s not really qualified to run the show. So he’ll run the show without carrying the title of G.M. and if/when it all falls apart he can hire a new G.M. and continue to run the show.
In other words, Haslam is doing what Jerry Jones should have been doing since 1989.
Got to love Manziel for wanting to be here, though, especially someone of his celebrity status. This is the kind of attitude we've needed at QB for a long time.
Let me get this straight,, EVERYONE in the orgainzation, Pettine, Farmer and Haslam himself denied he made the call to draft Manziel and now the QB coach is coming out saying that he did indeed make the call..
OK, somebody tell these guys to get on the same page...
Or is this reporter spin? I think it might be given that the National Media has been banned entrance to this weekends camp!
Last edited by Damanshot; 05/16/1408:34 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I think our entire rookie class needs to ride a bus all the way to Connecticut in order to bond as a team and get rid of distractions.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Quote: Let me get this straight,, EVERYONE in the orgainzation, Pettine, Farmer and Haslam himself denied he made the call to draft Manziel and now the QB coach is coming out saying that he did indeed make the call..
OK, somebody tell these guys to get on the same page...
Or is this reporter spin? I think it might be given that the National Media has been banned entrance to this weekends camp!
Nope! It's not reporter spin. They are direct quotes from the QB coach and the link is posted in the draft forum. When it comes to business, you simply can't buy into the company line.
He made it clear it was Haslam who told them to make the move to draft Manziel and didn't mince words about it or leave any doubt.
I hope that ends all of the crap tossed around on how silly and just plain stupid even suggesting such a thing was.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Quote: Let me get this straight,, EVERYONE in the orgainzation, Pettine, Farmer and Haslam himself denied he made the call to draft Manziel and now the QB coach is coming out saying that he did indeed make the call..
OK, somebody tell these guys to get on the same page...
Or is this reporter spin? I think it might be given that the National Media has been banned entrance to this weekends camp!
Nope! It's not reporter spin. They are direct quotes from the QB coach and the link is posted in the draft forum. When it comes to business, you simply can't buy into the company line.
He made it clear it was Haslam who told them to make the move to draft Manziel and didn't mince words about it or leave any doubt.
I hope that ends all of the crap tossed around on how silly and just plain stupid even suggesting such a thing was.
I think there is room to disagree... In the coming days, we'll hear more on this.. stay tuned
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
QB Coach Dowell Loggains Says In Radio Interview Text From Johnny Manziel Prompted Browns To Draft Him
CLEVELAND (92.3 The Fan) – The legend of how Johnny Manziel landed in Cleveland with the Browns last Thursday night added another chapter Thursday.
A simple text from Manziel while he sat in the green room to Browns quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains during the NFL Draft set the wheels in motion and gave the Browns all the incentive they needed to make the move.
“We’re sitting there and they keep showing Johnny on TV and we’re going back and forth, Johnny and I are texting,” Loggains told Bo Mattingly, host of ‘SportsTalk With Bo Mattingly’ which airs weekdays on 5 Arkansas radio stations. “He shoots me a text that says, ‘I wish you guys would come get me. Hurry up and draft me because I want to be there and wreck this league together.’”
Loggains quickly forwarded the text to owner Jimmy Haslam, general manager Ray farmer and head coach Mike Pettine.
“As soon as that happened Mr. Haslam said alright, pull the trigger. We’re trading to go get this guy,” Loggains said.
“We’re sitting there and they keep showing Johnny on TV and we’re going back and forth, Johnny and I are texting
“As soon as that happened Mr. Haslam said alright, pull the trigger. We’re trading to go get this guy,” Loggains said.
The more interesting part is the "we're going back and forth". Sounds to me as there were some "yays" and "nays" in that room regarding picking Manziel. You don't go "back and forth" if there is a "consensus". Seems like Mr.HeeHaw owner ended the back and forth "his way".
That's why an owner should not be in the draft room. They say and do stupid stuff in the heat of the moment and on average they're as clueless as the AVG homer out there.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
But it's not the whole story Pit.. maybe they had already been discussing it and Farmer was pretty much on-board already... maybe he said it in the old "We gotta get this guy" style...
See if you really want to parse every word... "Alright, pull the trigger.." does that mean Farmer already had the gun loaded, the trade lined up, and was planning on doing it anyway?
I'll take the guys word for it that this is what was said but it still doesn't mean Farmer did anything he didn't want to do.
I agree. I think the picture needs to be looked at globally. If they had been targeting him all along and were looking at the best spot for trading up, then this is pretty much a non-story. I also don't know Dowell, but I can't imagine he'd be outwardly stupid enough to say something that blatantly flies in the face of direct quotes from his head coach and GM.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
He could have even been shown the tweet and said, in the manner many of our very own posters do ...... "Well, we definitely gotta get that guy!". Not necessarily a directive, but more amusement at Manziel's message. The fact that farmer was already working on trades at the time was coincidental.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I just recall how very strong you said we were in that unit going into the draft
Its funny how people just recall what they wish to recall.
In every discussion about the OL Lava, etc. I've always stated that they can be upgraded on just not as easy people think in the FA market.
In every discussion about the draft I stated that if we were looking improve and get a starter in the OL it would have to be with our top 3 picks 4-35...Actually throughout the draft I was stating "IF" we did not go QB at #4 I was hoping we would draft Robinson RT and shift Schwartz inside.
So please stop stating what you think I state and simply ask what I think - not what you think I think. I know you know that I know that your know....lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
But it's not the whole story Pit.. maybe they had already been discussing it and Farmer was pretty much on-board already... maybe he said it in the old "We gotta get this guy" style...
See if you really want to parse every word... "Alright, pull the trigger.." does that mean Farmer already had the gun loaded, the trade lined up, and was planning on doing it anyway?
I'll take the guys word for it that this is what was said but it still doesn't mean Farmer did anything he didn't want to do.
Exactly ... not to mention, it sort of blows a hole into the original story of "We had Bridgewater on the card and then changed it". So what was it?
But it's not the whole story Pit.. maybe they had already been discussing it and Farmer was pretty much on-board already... maybe he said it in the old "We gotta get this guy" style...
See if you really want to parse every word... "Alright, pull the trigger.." does that mean Farmer already had the gun loaded, the trade lined up, and was planning on doing it anyway?
I'll take the guys word for it that this is what was said but it still doesn't mean Farmer did anything he didn't want to do.
Exactly ... not to mention, it sort of blows a hole into the original story of "We had Bridgewater on the card and then changed it". So what was it?
It's a waste of time to worry about it. Two people can see that same thing and come away with different opinions based on their own bias.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
But but but ... OBVIOUSLY Haslam made the trade up to take JM at 22, but Farmer didn't like that, so he called to have them put Bridewater's name on the card in spite of Haslam, but after a long drawn-out wrestling match between Haslam and Farmer on the tables of the draft war-room ... Haslam put Farmer into a sleeper hold and was able to call in and change the name on the card with seconds to spare.
Quote: But but but ... OBVIOUSLY Haslam made the trade up to take JM at 22, but Farmer didn't like that, so he called to have them put Bridewater's name on the card in spite of Haslam, but after a long drawn-out wrestling match between Haslam and Farmer on the tables of the draft war-room ... Haslam put Farmer into a sleeper hold and was able to call in and change the name on the card with seconds to spare.
Yup and then he rehired Banner because he felt he made a mistake and Banner in turn rehired Chud and Lombardi who called Minnisota to tell them that Turner was still under contract to the Browns..
Yup, that's certainly how it went down..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: But but but ... OBVIOUSLY Haslam made the trade up to take JM at 22, but Farmer didn't like that, so he called to have them put Bridewater's name on the card in spite of Haslam, but after a long drawn-out wrestling match between Haslam and Farmer on the tables of the draft war-room ... Haslam put Farmer into a sleeper hold and was able to call in and change the name on the card with seconds to spare.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: He could have even been shown the tweet and said, in the manner many of our very own posters do ...... "Well, we definitely gotta get that guy!". Not necessarily a directive, but more amusement at Manziel's message. The fact that farmer was already working on trades at the time was coincidental.
That's at least how I read the quote. The Browns were working the phones as soon as pick 11 w/ the Titans. They were trying to make a move to grab Manziel before he got to 'Murderers Row' in Farmer's terms (in regards to getting a player that they wanted ala Terrence West).
I think that we kept trying to move up to grab Manziel, as Logains said that he was the #1 QB on our board. I think the Tweet that Johnny said just enhanced the FO's desire to make the move - which they were trying to do all along. When Haslem said "Pull the trigger (and get him)", who knows in what order it was said. Farmer could have been debating w/ Pettine and Shanahan whether or not to trade up in front of KC to get him with the offer that Philly gave us or wait, and during the conversation, Haslam could have said what he said. It doesn't necessarily incline that he made the final decision, it could have just been him showing his anticipation, as if (We want Manziel, we all know it, we might as well just pull the trigger now instead of risking KC taking him).
When you have a potential franchise QB (who many had projected to go #1) tweeting you and saying "I want to be there and wreck the league together" that got to make you feel good as an organization from Haslam all the way down to Pettine, Farmer, Shanahan, Logains, etc.
I really don't have the energy to respond to you or Rish right now. In fact, I don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about other than being antagonistic of a differing opinion.
What's funny is that the quote comes out afterwards from the qb coach and all I hear is spin, spin, spin.
Maybe Johnny sent the text after the Browns picked at number 8. That would explain the rumors about the Browns attempting to move up to 11 and to 16 but the front office wasn't ready to give up the farm to move up that high.
Overall I like that decision, and others that Haslam has made lately ..... so I removed it. It didn't stick with me. It wouldn't have anyway. By the time the season rolled around, I would have been back to being upbeat and optimistic, as I try to be. I don't hold those grudges forever. You never seem to get to happy and/or upbeat anymore. No matter what Farmer does, you seem to dislike it. It is like you do exactly what you accuse others of in reverse. 
