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Hmmm...I found this to be quite the fluff piece. Hoyer was always going to begin as the starter, but they are certainly leaving room for Manziel to become the starter if he is clearly the best option.
As it should be. May the best man win.
you had a good run Hank.
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Oh,but they sure are pressing up those jersey's real quick,and he is being talked about everywhere.Sold 1,000 season tickets in the 1st hr for them too.Has he done anything or said anything,but be totally polite since being signed? Yeah,let's all stick him in the dog house, and that'll teach him a lesson.I hope he kick a$$ for us,and wins.
He's not in the doghouse. He's at square one. It's the first time in a few years he's been there. If he wants his fame, nickname, celebrity, back he needs to re earn it.
His jerseys are going to sell. As will season tickets in hopes of the unknown. Ultimately that'll will disappear if Manziel doesn't do the work to earn back his JF status.
I see this as a good thing.
I can tell you don't like him.That's fine and I get that,but what about the owner? Why buy a flashy sports car,if you don't want the attention it brings with it? I just don't care for Jimmy's comments and unwelcoming attitude to one of our 1st rd picks.I mean seriously,who does that? Me I don't know if this kid will be good at all (who does) but damn,I sure want the FO to be excited in having him you know?
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LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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With Gordon being 99.9% history, who is Hoyer or little Johnny going to even be throwing the ball to?
Who was there before Gordon? Who came to Cleveland since?
There is still Greg Little, Jordan Cameron, Nate Burleson (after his arm heals - until it gets broken again), Andrew Hawkins, Travis Benjamin, Jim Dray, Josh Cooper, Ben Tate, Terrance West, et al.
Do you have any more silly questions?
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It seems to me that if Johnny Manziel's hurt by anything Haslam says, he needs to get over himself right away.
The Browns traded up to get Manziel, so the thought that the front office or ownership don't want him in Cleveland is just ludicrous on the face of it. Why would they spend a draft pick (actually, two of them) to acquire his services?
Manziel won't take this as any kind of slight and if he did, I wouldn't want him on my team, even after drafting him.
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It seems to me that if Johnny Manziel's hurt by anything Haslam says, he needs to get over himself right away.
The Browns traded up to get Manziel, so the thought that the front office or ownership don't want him in Cleveland is just ludicrous on the face of it. Why would they spend a draft pick (actually, two of them) to acquire his services?
Manziel won't take this as any kind of slight and if he did, I wouldn't want him on my team, even after drafting him.
This.
It's not that I don't like Manziel. It's that I'm not ready to anoint him anything other than another QB on the roster. If he succeeds I'll be his biggest fan. In the mean time he needs to earn my adoration. Put the 'money signs' away and show me you're going to put the work in. Show me you're worth being here longer than one contract.
I'm a Browns fan. Not a JF fanboy.
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I am not a Hoyer fan, while he showed good leadership in the two games he played, and he did seem to fire up the team more than Weeden or Campbell ever could, his actual QB play was average. Hoyer makes a great back-up. I just do not think he is a long term starter.
Against a very weak Vikings secondary he still threw 3 interceptions and we barely won even with a trick play TD. Against the Bengals, Dalton played ugly even though the Bengals had great field position most of the game.
While I wouldn't be disappointed that Manziel hasn't started by week 5 (as it means Hoyer would be playing better than I expected and we would be winning ), I just would not be surprised if he was.
I understand your feeling bro. i am not saying he is the next Tom Brady. i don't believe he is. BUT i think he is an average NFL QB and if he preforms like one I think that will be enough to keep Johnny on the bench this year. I have always felt like a rookie should not be starting at QB in they NFL they need time to learn. I didn't want Couch starting his rookie year, and I even wanted Kosar to sit and learn during his rookie season.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I still have bad memories of Tim Couch getting crushed for 14 games in his first season. He was winging it without a clue. Don't start Manziel until he's ready. We've all heard about players talking about when 'the game slowed down for them'. Let's not throw another QB out there unless he is truly ready.
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The reality of the situation is this.
1. JFF will begin training camp as a backup.
2. if he obviously better than Hoyer, JFF will start the season.
3. If Hoyer lays an egg, we will see JFF after the bye, otherwise JFF is on the bench.
4. If the Browns are marginal in mid season, there will be a change, if not, JFF is still on the bench.
5. If the Browns are out of playoff contention, there will be a change, if not, JFF is still on the bench.
6. If JFF demonstrates that he is better than Hoyer, he will start.
7. If Hoyer get hurt, expect JFF to play.
You can go through any number of scenarios, for a mid round first selection, in most situations, the best thing to do is to sit JFF until JFF is ready and circumstances determine that JFF should play, See Big Ben. But the best scenario is to have JFF sit a year, and be ready to go in year 2. See Palmer. Otherwise the season is probably a lost cause.
Playing a rookie QB on a bad team is not likely to improve your win/loss record.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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I would argue that we are not a "bad team"
Do I roll JF out with the 99 browns? Hell no. The 09 Browns? Nope..
The 2014 Browns are a different animal all together..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It seems to me that if Johnny Manziel's hurt by anything Haslam says, he needs to get over himself right away.
The Browns traded up to get Manziel, so the thought that the front office or ownership don't want him in Cleveland is just ludicrous on the face of it. Why would they spend a draft pick (actually, two of them) to acquire his services?
Manziel won't take this as any kind of slight and if he did, I wouldn't want him on my team, even after drafting him.
Well I'm sure you invite guests to a party,and then lay snide remarks at them once they arrive?... Of course you don't! That's my whole point.Haslam came off as being rude in his comments.Not the way to welcome folks to the team.
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Telling someone they have to earn something, and won't be given it, is not a "snide remark"
And Haslem isn't the one that made the decision, Pettine did, Haslem is just saying what the Coach said...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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The Browns are a bad team until they find a QB.
No need for further discussion. You are what your record says you are, in the words of Bill Parcells.
There are good player, unlike 99.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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No need for further discussion. You are what your record says you are, in the words of Bill Parcells.
Right...
0-0, just like everyone else..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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He'll still start week 1. I refuse to believe otherwise.
Only if Hoyer is hurt do I believe this. I believe the intent of the staff is for Manziel to sit and learn the offense before feeding him to the wolves.
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Look, if you believe a guy who is under 6' tall can run around and not get creamed in the NFL,
I don't believe that.
My belief is that he made GREAT strides from year 1 to year 2 at Texas A&M as a pocket passer.
I think he can be successful as a pocket passer in the NFL, while having the ability to keep broken plays alive.
My question is that how can you believe this when his biggest issues coming into this draft are #1 Pocket Presence/Awareness and #2 Holding the ball too long?
Just because media is consumed by him doesn't make him a starter on day one. I almost guarantee that due to the aforementioned issues, if Johnny Manziel starts day one he will be ending his season on IR due to injury. Right now he plays with a recklessness that will hurt the team in the long run.
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Hoyer is what he is
And what is that exactly?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Hoyer is what he is
And what is that exactly?
Borderline starter.
Does a lot of good things. Nothing great.
A guy you can win games with, but not necessarily a guy who makes you a contender unless everything around him is going great.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Hoyer is what he is
And what is that exactly?
Borderline starter.
Does a lot of good things. Nothing great.
A guy you can win games with, but not necessarily a guy who makes you a contender unless everything around him is going great.
OK,, well, I only saw him in 2 games (3 if you count the first couple of plays in his third start) and from that, I can't tell what he is. So you are way smarter than I am I guess.
All I saw was a guy that moved the team and a team that, for whatever reason, seemed to respond better with him in there.
Take that for what it's worth...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All I saw was a guy that moved the team and a team that, for whatever reason, seemed to respond better with him in there.
sounds a lot like a starting nfl QB? oh you forgot that one other little thing. 2 wins. 
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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It seems to me that if Johnny Manziel's hurt by anything Haslam says, he needs to get over himself right away.
The Browns traded up to get Manziel, so the thought that the front office or ownership don't want him in Cleveland is just ludicrous on the face of it. Why would they spend a draft pick (actually, two of them) to acquire his services?
Manziel won't take this as any kind of slight and if he did, I wouldn't want him on my team, even after drafting him.
Two points, one is I agree with the above comment. Absolutely
Second is, we see the words that Haslam spoke, we don't see how he said it. the problem with the written word is that you can't read the person saying them.
I'd love to see these comments in context via video.,
But even if Haslam was warning JM to keep it cool, work hard and get the job done, What's wrong with that? Jimmy is about to make Johnny a millionaire, he wants to make sure he gets what he's paying for not a primadonna.
I see NOTHING wrong with that.. My guess is that Johnny takes that as a challenge and it might just spur him on to great heights.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It seems to me that if Johnny Manziel's hurt by anything Haslam says, he needs to get over himself right away.
The Browns traded up to get Manziel, so the thought that the front office or ownership don't want him in Cleveland is just ludicrous on the face of it. Why would they spend a draft pick (actually, two of them) to acquire his services?
Manziel won't take this as any kind of slight and if he did, I wouldn't want him on my team, even after drafting him.
Well I'm sure you invite guests to a party,and then lay snide remarks at them once they arrive?... Of course you don't! That's my whole point.Haslam came off as being rude in his comments.Not the way to welcome folks to the team.
Actually, I look it this way.
Haslam has a business. He has an employee that does a job. That employee has some experience in the job. He hires a kid out of college to do the same job. He isn't sure if the kid can do the job so he gives him the employee handbook and tells him to start reading it and to then go see the manager of his department about what his duties in his new job are. His shouldn't expect to be handed a job with a corner office just yet.
That's about it.
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He'll still start week 1. I refuse to believe otherwise.
Only if Hoyer is hurt do I believe this. I believe the intent of the staff is for Manziel to sit and learn the offense before feeding him to the wolves.
To be fair, Hoyer has to learn the offense too. All of them, I think, be allowed to compete for the job.
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All I saw was a guy that moved the team and a team that, for whatever reason, seemed to respond better with him in there.
That's quite a lot, actually.
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It seems to me that if Johnny Manziel's hurt by anything Haslam says, he needs to get over himself right away.
The Browns traded up to get Manziel, so the thought that the front office or ownership don't want him in Cleveland is just ludicrous on the face of it. Why would they spend a draft pick (actually, two of them) to acquire his services?
Manziel won't take this as any kind of slight and if he did, I wouldn't want him on my team, even after drafting him.
Two points, one is I agree with the above comment. Absolutely
Second is, we see the words that Haslam spoke, we don't see how he said it. the problem with the written word is that you can't read the person saying them.
I'd love to see these comments in context via video.,
But even if Haslam was warning JM to keep it cool, work hard and get the job done, What's wrong with that? Jimmy is about to make Johnny a millionaire, he wants to make sure he gets what he's paying for not a primadonna.
I see NOTHING wrong with that.. My guess is that Johnny takes that as a challenge and it might just spur him on to great heights.
That's what I think Haslam meant by it. If he was echoing what Pettine said, that's understandable. I fully expect that Pettine (and Shanahan) would say exactly the same thing.
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Hoyer is what he is
And what is that exactly?
Hoyer is the Browns first QB since Kosar to regularly put the ball in the receiver's hands as he's breaking open and hitting them in stride. This has been a rare thing for all the other QBs.
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Hoyer is what he is
And what is that exactly?
Hoyer is the Browns first QB since Kosar to regularly put the ball in the receiver's hands as he's breaking open and hitting them in stride. This has been a rare thing for all the other QBs.
My take on Hoyer is that he's VERY aware that he's going to have to fight for every chance he gets. Nothing will be handed to him. (not that it should be)
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I still have bad memories of Tim Couch getting crushed for 14 games in his first season
1999...
RB - Terry Kirby
FB - Marc Edwards
WRs - Darrin Chiaverini and Kevin Johnson
TE - Irv Smith
LT - Lomas Brown
LG - Jim Pyne
C - Dave Wohlabaugh
RG - Scott Rehberg
RT - Orlando Brown
2014.....
RB - Ben Tate
FB - Obi
WR - Josh Gordon (?), Greg Little, Andrew Hawkins
TE - Jordan Cameron
LT - Joe Thomas
LG - John Greco
C - Alex Mack
RG - Joel Bintonio
RT - Mitchell Schwartz
Manziel has a fighting chance -- Couch did not.
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For those of you wondering how the comment came about and what was meant by it, listen to this audio of the conversation. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000349768/article/haslam-to-johnny-manziel-this-isnt-hollywoodIf this has already been posted, sorry bout that, but I did read where some of you thought Haslam was out of line with his comments.. And frankly, that just isn't the case. Listen to this
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I realize the team is much different, and I still think Detmer should never have been pulled. He knew he was there to take the abuse of a new team. That QB change ruined Couch in my opinion, as he had happy feet after that.
That being said, I still don't want Manziel in the game before he is ready. It's a simple problem of having the best of the best players in the league. You have 70,000 college players, cut to 1800 pro players. Everyone is faster, the defenses are more complex, and the offenses are more complex. Most rookie QBs do not do well. Kosar had 2 1000 yard rushers, rothliswhosit had a good running game to hide behind, Peyton Manning only won 3 games, had more INTs than TDs, and a 71 QB rating his rookie year. Manning was a superior QB, where Manziel is most likely a good to very good QB. Superior QBs will thrive, where lesser QBs will get ruined, in my opinion.
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I agree.
As seen in here between posters, the printed word many time misses the point of the spoken word.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I agree.
As seen in here between posters, the printed word many time misses the point of the spoken word.
and if you listened to the audio, he (haslam) makes reference to PETTINE saying those things directly to Johnny when he visited the Browns on Friday after being selected.
So it's not even haslams words, it's Pettines and they were said directly to Manziel.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I'm a little confused.. Manziel was told he is the back-up and he should prepare accordingly and act accordingly... every good back-up says you have to prepare each week like you are the starter... so how is he supposed to prepare?
Just out of curiosity, did we tell any of our other draft picks that they are the back-up and they should act accordingly?
yebat' Putin
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Now DC, you know you can't go sifting through cliches looking for logic and substance...
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Manziel was told he is the back-up and he should prepare accordingly and act accordingly...
Preparing as though he is the starter is preparing and acting accordingly.
Thinking you're just going to walk in here and automatically be the top dawg is not.
#gmstrong
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LT - Lomas Brown
LG - Jim Pyne
C - Dave Wohlabaugh
RG - Scott Rehberg
RT - Orlando Brown
Tackles are tackles.
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LT - Lomas Brown
LG - Jim Pyne
C - Dave Wohlabaugh
RG - Scott Rehberg
RT - Orlando Brown
Wohlabaugh was the best of the bunch. Lomas Brown was good but past his prime.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I still have bad memories of Tim Couch getting crushed for 14 games in his first season
1999...
RB - Terry Kirby
FB - Marc Edwards
WRs - Darrin Chiaverini and Kevin Johnson
TE - Irv Smith
LT - Lomas Brown
LG - Jim Pyne
C - Dave Wohlabaugh
RG - Scott Rehberg
RT - Orlando Brown
2014.....
RB - Ben Tate
FB - Chris Pressley
WR - Josh Gordon (?), Greg Little, Andrew Hawkins
TE - Jordan Cameron
LT - Joe Thomas
LG - John Greco
C - Alex Mack
RG - Joel Bintonio
RT - Mitchell Schwartz
Manziel has a fighting chance -- Couch did not.
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LT - Lomas Brown
LG - Jim Pyne
C - Dave Wohlabaugh
RG - Scott Rehberg
RT - Orlando Brown
Wohlabaugh was the best of the bunch. Lomas Brown was good but past his prime.
Lomas Brown went on to play for the Giant, starting 32 games over the following 3 seasons after leaving the Browns. He was their starting LT in the Super Bowl.
Orlando Brown played 3 more seasons for the Ravens after leaving the Browns. (after a few years off because of the eye injury) Wohlabaugh and Pyne were both quality OL. Not All Pros, but very competent starting OL. Even Scott Rehberg went on to play 4 more years for the Bengals, starting 14 games in 4 seasons.
That OL wasn't a top 10 OL, but it wasn't as bad as it was credited with being. Couch really had no pocket feel in that season. He really had a weird career. He was sacked 56 times as a rookie. He then was sacked only 10 times in 7 starts/games the next year. In his 3rd season, he started all 16 games, and again was sacked 50+ times (51)
Couch, obviously, had issues with his own protection. This is evident by the fact that there was a season where he and Holcomb each played.
Holcomb was sacked 21 times in 302 attempts. That's one sack every 15.38 drop backs.
Couch also played that year. He attempted 203 passes, and was sacked 19 times. That's one sack every 11.68 tims he dropped back.
Couch had a lot of disadvantages in his Browns career, but he really never did learn how to handle pressure from the pocket.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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