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Oh I knew about the trend. We just see it differently. IMO I saw a kid who runs when he gets rattled. Instead of trying to move in the pocket to extend plays, he runs.
I certainly hope that's not the case moving forward, but from my perspective that's what I saw.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I saw that, too. The hope I have with him (not sure how much hope that is yet) is that he does appear to keep his eyes downfield when he's on the move. I can see how that pulls him apart from the likes of Kap or Vick when he was in ATL.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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I think Manziel will be at his best if his runs, whether designed or improvised, are in the 60-80 attempts range per year... I expect, if he plays a lot as a rookie it will be higher than that as he learns to break bad habits and get more comfortable in the pocket, but I would expect it to come down and settle in that range...
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and before everyone loses their mind, Aaron rogers averaged 58 rushes per year in his first 5 seasons. Last year was the only year he had less than 50 and he isn't considered a "running" QB.
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Why start 0-3 and throw him to the wolves? That's how bad habits become permanent.
Indeed. If it looks like the season's going south, keep Hoyer in and let Manziel learn, at least until the last few games of the season, then put him in, when opponents aren't so nasty against a 2-9 team.
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I think Hoyer will start, but it's going to be ugly for him. The fans are going to chant for Manziel, and Hoyer will get benched early (unless he absolutely lights it up).
I only think they'll be chanting for Manziel if Hoyer looks bad and we've lost the first few games. An early bye probably means Hoyer gets first three starts (barring a spectacular pre-season / camp by Manziel). I think Hoyer has enough good will among fans, having given us 75% of our wins last year.
But, you may be right.
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The only thing I'll disagree with is the "He's a career backup.." argument point..
He was backing up Tom Brady..
And Big Ben and John Skelton...
Not to mention Spidey's Uncle Ben and Red Skelton ... 
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Or he'll re-invent the way the QB position is played.
The game is heading in that direction. Might as well be Manziel that does it.
Yeah I see a lot of old timers having a real hard time coming to grips with this. 
Too early to put Manziel into the Hall of Fame.
But this old timer will come to grips with any Browns team chalking up a Super Bowl winning season, even if they have to re-invent the shape of the football.
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... That said....I see Joe Theisman in Johnny. ...
Still afraid we're seeing Ryan Leaf.
Neither of us will know until he's been on the field a year or two. 
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Ooooh.."This isn't Hollywood...and get ready to work hard..start acting like a backup..blah,blah,blah". That's a real crass way to be to the guy,you just drafted.Lets get something straight here.They chose him,not the other way around,and it wasn't a secret about him being only the most talked about college QB of all time!!! Seriously,why did they draft him if he isn't their kind of guy,and needs to act like a backup?
Chargers should'a told Ryan Leaf that. And Browns should'a told Brandon Weeden that. No matter how high you're drafted, ya still gotta prove it on the field. That's why there'll always be plenty of new entries for "Top 10 Draft Busts of the Decade" bios. Just 'cause a guy was great in college, doesn't mean he's gonna cut it in the NFL.
Look, I hope Manziel roars through training camp, wins the job (nothing against Hoyer), and takes us from worst-to-first ala Kurt Warner & Rams, then gives us about 10 Super Bowl titles. But, again, never know until he takes the field.
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Unless the plan is to sit Johnny Football this year, so we can debut him with the new jerseys in 2015.. 
Well, ya know, he IS here to sell tickets and jerseys ... 
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The only thing I'll disagree with is the "He's a career backup.." argument point..
He was backing up Tom Brady..
And Big Ben and John Skelton...
Not to mention Spidey's Uncle Ben and Red Skelton ...
As an UDFA, just to be Tom Brady's back-up he beat out 2 3rd round picks.. one from the year before, another from a few years before that.. he obviously showed Bill something.
He never backed up Ben, he backed up Charlie Batch and was on the Steelers roster for exactly 3 weeks because they were simply out of bodies and he probably didn't take more than 5 snaps each day in practice.....
A week or so later he was claimed by the Cardinals and asked to start 2 weeks later on a horrible team at the end of a disasterous season...
Other than the Patriots, he was in two no-win situations....
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I rarely see a positive from QB competitions either. They're only a positive showing if a guy needs more time to develop.
Yah. It's kinda like having the first pick of the draft, but not being able to make up your mind until you've got 30-seconds left as to whom you'll be drafting! 
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With Gordon being 99.9% history, who is Hoyer or little Johnny going to even be throwing the ball to?
See, that's why Manziel is in full season form: he's already scrambling to find a receiver.
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I can tell you don't like him. That's fine and I get that, but what about the owner? Why buy a flashy sports car, if you don't want the attention it brings with it? ...
'Cause maybe you bought the flashy sports car for your elderly father to drive to his NBA owner's box with his floozy who's gonna record him saying something embarrassing. 
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I rarely see a positive from QB competitions either. They're only a positive showing if a guy needs more time to develop.
Yah. It's kinda like having the first pick of the draft, but not being able to make up your mind until you've got 30-seconds left as to whom you'll be drafting!
Generally a QB competition means you are deciding between two marginal QBs.. very rare that you have a Montana/Young situation where you have two excellent QBs to decide between.. But it is always a little different when one is a rookie.. If you want Manziel to start, you have to hope for the Russell Wilson template where the guy just comes into camp and does so much well that you can't NOT start him...
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Everyone except Weeden, who had the job handed to him on a silver platter.
Yep. And that worked out just great for us, didn't it???
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Everyone except Weeden, who had the job handed to him on a silver platter.
Yep. And that worked out just great for us, didn't it???
Weeden just wasn't very good.. you could have made him work for it, you could have gift wrapped it with a pretty bow, you could have let him sit a year, you could have made him stand on his head or wear a "Eat at Joes" sign out by the highway to earn it.. he still wasn't going to be very good.
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Everyone except Weeden, who had the job handed to him on a silver platter.
Yep. And that worked out just great for us, didn't it???
Weeden just wasn't very good.. you could have made him work for it, you could have gift wrapped it with a pretty bow, you could have let him sit a year, you could have made him stand on his head or wear a "Eat at Joes" sign out by the highway to earn it.. he still wasn't going to be very good.
They did it two years in a row for Weeden. I said it during the season, no way he beat out Hoyer and Cambell in an open competition.
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I watched many games and I witnessed some of the best QB protection I've seen in college football.
I saw JM having to run for his life and not from bad decision but because of pressure. But then I'm getting old so maybe my memory is off.
Yes, I saw some of that also. But not as much as I saw him standing comfortably in the pocket going thru his progressions.
We are going to need to shore up the right side of the oline if Hoyer or JM is to succeed this year. Hopfully we got the guys we need to do that.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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The downside is Hoyer could have prepared as the starter, the upside is we know that Weeden is horrible.. his first year showed some flashes but, in my opinion, not enough.. had he not played, people would still be wondering if he was any good..
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I think Manziel will be at his best if his runs, whether designed or improvised, are in the 60-80 attempts range per year... I expect, if he plays a lot as a rookie it will be higher than that as he learns to break bad habits and get more comfortable in the pocket, but I would expect it to come down and settle in that range...
I keep thinking of Fran Tarkenton and how at 6 foot and 190LBS, ran himself into 9 Pro Bowls and the HOF induction.
He passed for over 47,000 yards and ran for another 3600 or so and he passed for 342 TD's and ran for another 32. And this will freak you out, he never fumbled..
http://www.nfl.com/player/frantarkenton/2527019/profile
Although he didn't win a Superbowl he was in 4 of them.. at least he made it to the big show.
One of the things that JM mentioned in the presser is that he needs to get better at staying in the pocket so he knows that could be a problem.
I hope he has a career like Tarkenton.. But with one minor change, I'd rather he win a few SB's
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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He extends plays, he's very accurate throwing on the run.. he has other positive attributes.. And why would it get pronouncedly worse? Are you worried that Bridgewater is going to become less accurate? or that Bortles is going to start throwing left handed? or that Carr is going to lose an eye in a freak smores accident? No team has ever drafted a guy and thought, what if this bad habit he has gets worse.... that's why you have coaches. I mean if he gets any coaching at all, especially if he isn't the day 1 starter, his habits should improve, not get pronouncedly worse...
I am going off of memory here so I could be wrong but I believe Johnny was around 76 percent completion percent when throwing from the pocket, and around 44 percent when throwing while running around, so i have to disagree that he was very accurate while throwing on the run bro. He has to learn how to hang in the pocket and get ride of the ball on time.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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#browns haslam said Manziel has been told things like "you're the backup" and "this is not Hollywood." He said "Brian Hoyer is the starter"
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Browns owner Jimmy Haslam says coach Mike Pettine made clear to @JManziel2 on Fri that he is the "backup" QB & needs to act accordingly.
Really? "This is not Hollywood," and "needs to act accordingly." Seriously?
Why not have an open competition?
Why not treat your players w/respect rather than degrading them in public?
I like Hoyer and hope he starts this year. But man, that is some lame BS! This organization has no class.
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I like the Browns. I think they do have class.
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Johnathon Football will win the job fair and square in camp. Book it. There's not a guy on the planet that thrives more on proving people wrong than he does. The best thing that ever happened to the Browns was having him slip all the way to #22. He's going to be mad at the world for that and he's going to come out swinging. I've followed him since his senior year at Kerrville Tivy. Take this to the bank, Johnny will be your opening day starter.
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Johnathon Football will win the job fair and square in camp. Book it. There's not a guy on the planet that thrives more on proving people wrong than he does. The best thing that ever happened to the Browns was having him slip all the way to #22. He's going to be mad at the world for that and he's going to come out swinging. I've followed him since his senior year at Kerrville Tivy. Take this to the bank, Johnny will be your opening day starter.
Settle down, Mrs. Manziel. He'll get his chance.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Really? "This is not Hollywood," and "needs to act accordingly." Seriously?
I don't like the sound of any of that either.
It's beyond the realm of my imagination for a HC to rise to this level in the NFL while being such a dick.
I don't see a problem with the HC dressing down a player who is acting cocky and behaving inappropriately. (But no one knows that any of that has happened). Even to the degree of saying those words. But that would be in private and kept in-house.
That Haslem is saying these things in public makes me think that rather than a dressing down of Johnny Manzel this is one of the methods of "controlling the circus" as they knew they would have to do. I would like to think that Johnny understands what they are doing and that he is not being embarrassed in public.
The words they are saying are not really wrong. This is not Hollywood. He is the backup. He does need to act accordingly. (Of course, one of the things the backup must do to "act accordingly" is to prepare as though he is the starter. No mystery there).
In the OP's article Pettine was quoted as saying... "it will be very difficult for anyone in this draft class to come in and beat [Hoyer] out. I really believe that,” Pettine said.
So, are these things being used to beat Johnny over the head to knock some of that smart-assed, cocky, entitlement- expecting, spoiled brat syndrome out of him?
Hardly, and a poor way to do it if it was. So poor in fact that it can't be true.
What I think, as I said above, is that this a tactic the Browns are using in attempt to control the media circus. They are basically saying to the media...
"C'mon people, you are chasing a backup. A freaking backup!
He may have been a National celebrity at A&M but here he's just another player working for a role on the depth chart. He has a long way to go and he knows it. We know it. You should know it.
He fell to 22 for a reason. He's not Andrew Luck or even RGIII. He's a backup quarterback with the Cleveland Browns.
Save your hype for when and if he becomes a starter. Until then let him work. He needs it."
In doing this, I don't think the Browns, Haslem, Farmer or Pettine, gives a rats-ass how they are perceived so long as they accomplish their goal of averting the attention away from "Johnny Football".
So far it's working great.
The attention is squarely on the Browns brass and their comments as the media has a hay-day with their hyperbole regarding the statements they have made and how wrong/stupid/unprofessional/typical-Browns screwing up a good thing/etc, etc.
The circus is at bay. At least in their pursuit of Johnny Manzel. the Browns are controlling the circus.
It reminds me of the Geico commercial where the medieval, wizard-like dude exhibits the "oldest trick in the book" when he points his finger saying, "Looketh over there."
I feel the Browns are pulling the oldest trick in the book and the media is falling for it. hahaha
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It's a solid way of keeping the guy's ego in check while reminding him that he hasn't done a damn thing on an NFL field. Let's be honest, Manziel is going to get the coverage of a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady, maybe a little bit more than they get. He's a superstar already and he hasn't played a down of football yet.
It's a smart idea to remind the kid that he still has to work hard to see the field. He has a lot of work to do before he is ever named starter in the NFL.
you had a good run Hank.
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JC Man sometimes I think Browns fans are looking for more to complain about than the media. So what we tell a rookie that nothing is being handed to you , right now, ( eh before you even take the field mind you), you are a back up ... geez that is an epiphany, good God how terrible to say that. He may be scarred for life, what a classless organization. Do we really think there is NOT going to be competition for jobs including QB? What we could have said, I guess is what Minny's HC said about TB... " I hope he wins the job" ... how many steps is that away from handing him the job ? I guess it would be better if out FO basically told JM the job is his to lose. What a firestorm that would have lit.  Ah well, complain ... we will .... persoanlly I wil wait to see what camp brings and if there is competiton as we have been promised or if JM is regulated to tossing the ball to third string camp fodder while BH works solely with the first team.
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A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Man sometimes I think Browns fans are looking for more to complain about than the media.
Ain't that the truth.....
Oh,, happy birthday 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Johnathon Football
Johnathon Football?
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We are Johnathan Football.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
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#browns haslam said Manziel has been told things like "you're the backup" and "this is not Hollywood." He said "Brian Hoyer is the starter"
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Browns owner Jimmy Haslam says coach Mike Pettine made clear to @JManziel2 on Fri that he is the "backup" QB & needs to act accordingly.
Really? "This is not Hollywood," and "needs to act accordingly." Seriously?
Why not have an open competition?
Why not treat your players w/respect rather than degrading them in public?
I like Hoyer and hope he starts this year. But man, that is some lame BS! This organization has no class.
Jr. had class. Where did that get us? The FO is just trying to curb the show boating and upcoming media circus while prepping for this season.
Although I disagree with you that this organzation is classless. Having a classy organization right now is not going to get us more wins this year.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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We are Johnathan Football.
As they would say at TAMU... Whoop !
Thx DAMAN!
Last edited by texaslostdawg; 05/15/14 08:31 AM.
#gmstrong
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I am going off of memory here so I could be wrong but I believe Johnny was around 76 percent completion percent when throwing from the pocket, and around 44 percent when throwing while running around, so i have to disagree that he was very accurate while throwing on the run bro.
I have no idea if those numbers are right and if they are, I have no idea how they compare to other QBs.. I would obviously assume a guys completion % when on the run isn't going to be the same as it is from the pocket but I wouldn't know how much of a drop is good.
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He has to learn how to hang in the pocket and get ride of the ball on time.
I agree with that. It's the single biggest thing he needs to work on.
yebat' Putin
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Really? "This is not Hollywood," and "needs to act accordingly." Seriously?
Why not have an open competition?
Why not treat your players w/respect rather than degrading them in public?
I like Hoyer and hope he starts this year. But man, that is some lame BS! This organization has no class.
Vers, first, I'm praying for you.
Second, I totally disagree. Haslam is making it known everyone earns their way onto the field, and you don't lose your spot because you got hurt. Johnny, like everyone else coming out of school, gets introduced to the working stiff. Johnny can do one of two things complain or work. Johnny made it clear in all his interviews he is here to work. Johnny must earn his way. It will not only make him better but make Browns better.
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If it's "not Hollywood" then don't make it so dramatic.
You simply tell JFF, "Brian Hoyer is the starter entering camp, and if you want to start, you'll have to earn that opportunity"
The "You're the back up. Act like it. This isn't Hollywood" is over the top and very unprofessional, IMO.
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If it's "not Hollywood" then don't make it so dramatic.
You simply tell JFF, "Brian Hoyer is the starter entering camp, and if you want to start, you'll have to earn that opportunity"
The "You're the back up. Act like it. This isn't Hollywood" is over the top and very unprofessional, IMO.
Top, I'm not sure how your first day after graduating (high school or college) at your new job, but I wasn't given the keys nor the corner office. I was basically given menial tasks until I proved myself. Corporate world wants you to fight for your spot.
I think Haslam's comments are totally overblown. Haslam made those statements not only toward JFF but to the entire team. Haslam wants this team to understand no one is above the team, and you need to work your way up the ladder. Haslam would be more disrespectful if he took away what Hoyer earned last year and made him reacquire it.
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jc Anybody want Florio's 2 cents? I didn't think so. . . . RG3, not Tebow, could be driving Browns’ handling of ManzielPosted by Mike Florio May 15, 2014, 8:53 AM EDT It’s become fashionable to chastise the long-irrelevant Browns for the manner in which they’ve handled their sudden burst of relevance. And since I have zero sense of fashion, allow me to look at this a different way. The Browns have blocked the national media from Johnny Manziel’s first minicamp, explaining that they don’t want a repeat of Tebowmania. The better comparison could be not Tebow but Robert Griffin III. Offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan has seen this movie before. Continuously for two years with his eyes held wide open, Clockwork Orange-style. Kyle and his father, Mike, saw RG3 become the most powerful man in D.C. not residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, with owner Daniel Snyder embracing — and perhaps fueling — the idea that it was Griffin’s team. Browns owner Jimmy Haslam seems to be determined to avoid, or at least to minimize, a repeat of that phenomenon. While keeping the national media out will do nothing to decrease national media interest in the Browns and Manziel, the effort provides tangible proof that the Browns are trying to not let Manziel become bigger than the team. That may not be enough to ensure that Manziel and Shanahan will be able to coexist. Manziel’s penchant for improvisation doesn’t mesh with Shanahan’s preference that quarterback play be virtually robotic. “During the course of a regular game, Kyle Shanahan wants you to run the offense exactly how he wants it, down to the amount of hitches you take to go through your progressions,” former Shanahan pupil Rex Grossman said back in 2011. Manziel may comply during the early portions of a play, but once things start to collapse he may decide to do his own thing, which may drive Shanahan crazy. Which leads back to the question of whether the coaching staff and the front office really wanted Manziel in the first place. By all appearances, it was a pick that was at least indirectly influenced by Haslam and/or the homeless guy in Cleveland. If so, the challenge for Haslam will be to ensure that Manziel never figures that out — and that he never abuses the power he already possesses in Cleveland, regardless of what the team now does to try to contain it.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
If it's "not Hollywood" then don't make it so dramatic.
You simply tell JFF, "Brian Hoyer is the starter entering camp, and if you want to start, you'll have to earn that opportunity"
The "You're the back up. Act like it. This isn't Hollywood" is over the top and very unprofessional, IMO.
Agreed over and over. Too bad there's nobody to tell Jimmy "This isn't Dallas."
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny football told to prepare as
a backup. This is not hollywood.
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