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There's no good reason to pass on Wiggins so you can collect a couple extra decent role players. The reason #1 picks aren't traded in the NBA is because that's your best shot at a superstar, and superstars are what put you in contention and win you titles (Duncan, Lebron, Kobe, Shaq, MJ, Hakeem... I don't think I need to go on.)
If you're going to ask for something, ask for something absurd. If you're not comfortable doing that, just say you're not going to trade the pick. There's no reason to get fancy and nothing wrong with just taking the best player in the draft. There are plenty of opportunities with other draft picks, free agency, and trades to put together a good supporting cast.
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That seems like a lot for Utah to give up for Jabari.
He's a Mormon NBA superstar.
Utah will overspend to try and get him, and it would still be worth it for them.
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The rumor that is out there is Burks, Favors, and the #5 pick for the #1. I think that trade has to be made if it is on the table. It might even be worth taking Embiid at #5 if that was the offer.
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That seems like a lot for Utah to give up for Jabari.
He's a Mormon NBA superstar.
Utah will overspend to try and get him, and it would still be worth it for them.
Don't forget that Jimmer is a free agent this off-season. Jimmer and Parker would be a huge draw.
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I would want Heyward, Favors/Kanter, plus 5th pick. Wouldn't want Burks, when you already have Dion, Kyrie. Even then, it would be a tough choice, since Heyward and Favors will be paid quite a bit, and you might limit your ceiling with the team.
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I also think that in the Princeton offense, Parker is by far the superior player
I'm just curious why you say this? In another thread you said you didn't want Carmello Anthony because he wouldn't fit in the Princeton offense. Parker is basically compared straight to Carmello by most scouting reports I've seen. They're offensive shooters that don't play defense, and don't have elite athleticism. Ironically enough, I've read another article where they said Wiggins would fit right into the Princeton offense.
Other comments I've heard about Parker ... he's slightly overweight, he's a PF/SF tweener, and his game might not translate well to the pro's because of lack of elite athleticism ... didn't we already draft this guy last year in Anthony Bennett?
Good question and good supporting details. I have not posted much on BB since I have been here, but I always read. You make really good points. I also like your points in other forums. You seem like an intelligent guy.
With that said, I am just offering my opinion. I played BB in high school. I coached BB. I know the game. But, I don't watch it as much as I do football, especially in the last few years.
I could be wrong about Parker and Wiggens. I watched both,but it's not like how I studied the collegiate QBs this off-season. I just watched BB for fun. I saw that the game meant more to Parker than it did to Wiggens. I saw that Parker showed up every night more than Wiggens did. Yes, I get the athleticism part, but you guys are on that side.
Potential is one thing..............production on a consistent basis is another. Many love sensational over consistency. I see similarities in Parker's game to Melo's, but there is one HUGE DIFFERENCE..............Melo is a mental midget who is very selfish. Parker is a guy who has a fierce desire to WIN. And that fuel to win far outweighs Wiggens' desire to win. I know a lot of people don't think that is important, but as a former player and coach..................I know it is HUGE!
I think Parker can be a Melo or Zach Randolf type inside scorer, but I also think he has a better outside game. I also think his will to win far exceeds Melo's. I think his desire to win will cause him to lose some excess weight. I think he is more of a "given" than any other player in the draft. I can't stand guys who disappear in collegiate games. What will they do in the NBA playoffs? Pffttt.
Again, I am not saying I am right. Just offering my opinion. I am just not as enamored w/athletic potential as some and instead put more credence into proven production.
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realize with Hayward that he is a RFA and that complicates any trade with him. he's also coming off a huge regression year. I think it was a blip and he's way better on defense than most give him credit for being, but it's something to consider. if we could get Hayward, Favors and roll the dice on Embiid for the #1 pick, then I am taking that chance every single time. We might give up the best player (and I think it would be Wiggins even though Utah would take Jabari due to Mormon ties and team-fit), but there is also a chance we end up with the 3 best players in that deal too (If Embiid healthy? Hayward's shooting and Favors downlow already proven). No way Utah gives all that up...heck, I'd throw in Dion 
#gmstrong
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Cavs fans are more delusional than Browns fans. That is hard to do.
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The rumor that is out there is Burks, Favors, and the #5 pick for the #1. I think that trade has to be made if it is on the table. It might even be worth taking Embiid at #5 if that was the offer.
No thanks, Burks cant shoot a lick
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Cavs fans are more delusional than Browns fans. That is hard to do.
And On that note.. Here's ThatGuy's Super Awesome Ridiculous Scenario of the Day!
Draft Parker #1, Trade him to Utah for #5, Enes Kanter, Gordon Haywood
Off #5, TT, and either Bennet or Waiters for Kevin Love, If they don't bite Draft Joel Embid
Decline all team options (even Varejao's) to fit LeBron and Melo (take less to come to this awesome team, duh) under the cap..
Scenario 1:
(This is not the lineup)
Kyrie
LeBron
Melo
Love
Kanter
Haywood
Bennett/Waiters
Jack
Zeller
Karasev
Scenario 2:
Kyrie
LeBron
Melo
Thompson
Kanter
Haywood
Waiters
Jack
Zeller
Karasev
Plus Embid next year..
Also option 3.. Draft Wiggins #1 and play him at SG with Melo and LeBron playing the 3/4 spots...
Ok I'm done..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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You're not allowed to talk about that on here, only serious stuff like whether or not Tyler Zeller projects as a viable option down the road, and whether or not he can develop a better shot. SCINTILLATING NBA DISCUSSIONS!
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~ Legend
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JC
I'm not sure why people are saying the Cavs are a .-poor team talent wise and that LeBron would never come here because of that. I'm pretty sure LeBron got the Cavs to an NBA Championship game with the likes of Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden. And it's not like the East has gotten so much better than what it was.
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JC
I'm not sure why people are saying the Cavs are a .-poor team talent wise and that LeBron would never come here because of that. I'm pretty sure LeBron got the Cavs to an NBA Championship game with the likes of Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden. And it's not like the East has gotten so much better than what it was.
The Cavs are better talent wise, but I think you have to look at every situation.
I think Houston is a possibility. Lots of things make sense, and although I don't think it's a major factor like some made it out to be, Texas has the same tax laws that Florida does, so he could save a bit of money by not paying taxes for his home games (he still must pay taxes for every road game he plays in)
Plus, they'd be the favorite, even in a stacked west. Low post presence with Howard. Harden has played with Durant so I don't think there is any doubt he could play with Lebron.
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Here's my preferred dream ..... We keep the #1 overall and draft Andrew Wiggins. He becomes out new SG. We trade Waiters and Thompson or Andy's expiring deal, (declining his option would still leave us with a $4 million buyout) and next year's #1 for Love. There has been word that we might be trying to trade Jack for an expiring deal, and if so, we could use that deal to help add another contract. We bring back Lebron. That give us: PG: Kyrie SG: Wiggins PF: Love SF: Lebron C: Zeller. (I can't think of a way we re-sign Hawes in addition to adding Love and Lebron) I would take that staring 5 without a second though. We would have backups of Bennett, Jack (if we don't trade him) Delli, Carrick, Karasev. We would probably have to look for another big to fit in rotation. I could see us moving pieces around though, with Love at Center, James at PF, and Karasev at SF .... or Wiggins at SF and Delli sliding to SG. Not bad for a pipedream.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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don't forget OKC. really, we cannot count out ANY team.
but, if he is willing to live in Oklahoma (no idea), then why wouldn't LeBron at least aproach Presti?
and, what better offer could Miami hope for than Westbrook to replace LeBron (a significant downgrade, but better than pretty much anything else they would get)?
#gmstrong
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Here's my preferred dream .....
We keep the #1 overall and draft Andrew Wiggins. He becomes out new SG.
We trade Waiters and Thompson or Andy's expiring deal, (declining his option would still leave us with a $4 million buyout) and next year's #1 for Love. There has been word that we might be trying to trade Jack for an expiring deal, and if so, we could use that deal to help add another contract.
We bring back Lebron.
That give us:
PG: Kyrie
SG: Wiggins
PF: Love
SF: Lebron
C: Zeller. (I can't think of a way we re-sign Hawes in addition to adding Love and Lebron)
I would take that staring 5 without a second though.
We would have backups of Bennett, Jack (if we don't trade him) Delli, Carrick, Karasev.
We would probably have to look for another big to fit in rotation. I could see us moving pieces around though, with Love at Center, James at PF, and Karasev at SF .... or Wiggins at SF and Delli sliding to SG.
Not bad for a pipedream.
Why keep Zeller at center? Trade Zeller to the 1994 Houston Rockets for Hakeem Olajuwon. He won the MVP, the Finals, and the Finals MVP that year. He would be a better fit anyway.
...while you're builing your Cavs basketball fantasy team. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I'd also move Karasev to the 1994 Chicago Bulls for Pippen.
And while we're at it, let's ship Johnny Manziel to the Packers for Rodgers and their first round picks for the next decade.
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Well .... depending what the T'Wolves get in the form of offers for Love ..... who knows?
Love may well say that he is not going to sign an extension in advance of a trade, preferring to have a look around after this season. That could drive down the price the T'Wolves get for him. Love, like all potential free agents, has to look at the landscape of the NBA and see that a path to the Finals is much, much easier in the East.
That really is the only part of my post that vis a pipe dream, and admittedly, it is the foundation upon which the rest sits .......... because if we could get Love without giving up the top pick this year, it would be a no brainer for Lebron to sign on. He would have Kyrie, Love, and a promising rookie in Wiggins waiting for him to come along. That would be 2 superstars, and a very promising rookie. What other team could offer that?
Who knows what the T'Wolves will be able to get for Love. Reports are that the Warriors have pulled out of trade negotiations.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Love will almost certainly be playing in a major market this year or the next.
Most likely Boston. I could see Chicago. Golden State is a darkhorse, as well.
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Maybe. maybe not. he has already said that he wouldn't mind Cleveland, because he really likes the young talent here. (and, obviously, Kyrie)
I think that the next 2 weeks are going to be really interesting in the NBA. I think that we're going to see a lot of interesting moves taking place.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't really see the point in trading for KL in the first place. Just be patient and get him next year. If you're the Warriors, why give up Klay Thompson, a future first rounder, AND have to pay KL a huge contract when you can just wait a year and give him the contract while keeping Klay?
Didn't the Knicks trade of Melo teach the league anything? You can't gut your roster and future for one star player. Just wait.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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I think the Golden State/Love deal is done, they are just posturing.
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The only reason to trade for Love is so that someone else doesn't beat you to him, and also so that you can, hopefully, convince him over the next year to re-sign with your team. (holy run on sentence Bat-Man!)
I agree with you though. Why gut your team just to add one player. I think that the Cavaliers could give up Waiters, Thompson, and next year's 1st round pick without damaging their team irreparably. It would still leave a core to build upon. I really think that they are one of the top 5 most attractive destinations for a free agent, given their core, cap space, and the owner's willingness to spend. We'll just have to see how things work out over the next couple of weeks, to the next year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Love has a decent amount of leverage in regards to where he lands. Teams aren't going to be as inclined to give up a lot for a one year rental, so he's most likely going to land where he's comfortable signing a long-term deal.
The odds of that being Cleveland are extremely long. The only way it happens is if a) LeBron comes back or b) the team is dumb enough to mortgage the future for a one year rental.
Scenario A is a long shot...sadly, scenario B isn't.
I don't even know if Cleveland would make a top five list of reasonable destinations for Love.
It's possible...but so is the Browns winning the Super Bowl this year.
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Quote:
The only reason to trade for Love is so that someone else doesn't beat you to him, and also so that you can, hopefully, convince him over the next year to re-sign with your team. (holy run on sentence Bat-Man!)
True, but he's an UFA one year from now. He'll want to hand pick where he lands in 12 months. Nobody can beat you to him if he wants to be with you all along. I think KL knows where he wants to go right now. He's had a long time to think about it without wasting time in the playoffs.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Quote:
The odds of that being Cleveland are extremely long. The only way it happens is if a) LeBron comes back or b) the team is dumb enough to mortgage the future for a one year rental.
Scenario A is a long shot...sadly, scenario B isn't.
Agreed ... but I think the framework of scenario B could be put in place, and use that to make scenario A work. It would only require the Wolves to be patient and wait through until free agency. If they are bent on dealing Love before the draft, then we don't have a chance ... well unless we want to be stupid.
I think Golden State trades for him this week though.
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Yup, I'm not buying the Warrior/Wolves deal being dead. More like "on hold" until a bit more shakes out before the draft (like seeing Melo and Lebron opt out).
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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The Cavaliers will resist trade offers, and keep the pick, Jabari Parker.
He's gonna galvanize a Cavalier effort and bring balance back.
I'm gonna go ahead and redact that one, didn't realize he does not want to be here.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Radical thought that we would get crushed in the media for doing with the caveat that I haven't seen the guy play but hear good things about him and just found out that he is 3 inches taller than I thought. With the #1 pick the Cleveland Cavaliers take ... Dante Exum PG Didn't realize that he was 6'6" tall We turn around and trade Kyrie Irving (possibly Waiters but I am not a big Kyrie fan. I think he is a selfish player who has no durability, no leadership and while talented just isn't a winner - jmo plus I think that he doesn't resign with us after this contract) not sure what we would get for him but I am sure we could get some serious quality back. Not advocating it. Just an off the wall idea that we haven't discussed. Pretty sure that I wouldn't have the cahones to do this if I was the Cavs GM. But being an international player, Coach Blatt might have some really good insight into him. And if we really like him that open up trade possibilities with Philly at 3. Additional caveat - I am not a Jabari Parker fan at all and would not even consider him at #1. I do like Wiggins. He does need to develop his outside shot some. Some people mention that he is passive but I think that he is too unselfish and with some prodding can learn to be more selfish. He is the guy I would probably take. Here is a scouting report on Exum NBA Comparison: Penny Hardaway/Leandro Barbosa
Strengths: The 18-year-old Aussie is a fluid and versatile athlete, who shows a great deal of potential … Good size for a guard, and should fill out nicely over time … Excels at getting to the basket and drawing fouls … Finishes through contact and can score with either hand … Excellent body control allows him to make very acrobatic shots at the rim … Opposing defenders are constantly off-balance due to his effective hesitation moves and explosive first step … Moves well without the ball – makes good use of screens and does it at a relatively high rate of speed … Can create scoring opportunities for both himself and his teammates … Just scratching the surface in certain areas of his game – effective at making floaters, shooting off the step-back and posting up, but does not use these skills very often … Improving as an outside shooter – smooth and elevates well off the dribble … Very versatile – used at the 1, 2, and 3 spots … An active and alert team defender – his length and speed allows him to cover a lot of ground … Comes up with a lot of steals and loose balls … Does a little bit of everything, and is willing to do whatever is needed to win, including setting screens and mixing it up in the paint … A good kid – is coachable, affable, grounded, humble, and intelligent ...
Weaknesses: Level of competition is the biggest knock against Exum. He has not proven himself against a high enough level of competition to make anyone feel completely comfortable drafting him in the top 5 ... Some of his best performances have come in games (Under 19 World Championships) where he appeared to be one of the most physically advanced players ... Playing for the Australian National Team, he was given free reign to create offense for himself. Can he be as succesful without being given the same level of freedom? ... Exum has played off the ball a lot, and he doesn’t appear ready to be a true point guard … His handle is loose at times – has the ball poked away too often and occasionally fumbles when changing hands or directions … Not an exceptional facilitator – makes too many ill-advised passes … Inconsistent outside shot – does not always get enough elevation and has a low release point, especially when his feet are set (catch-and-shoot) … Trajectory on his shot appears flat at times ... Settles for long-distance threes too often … Not vertically explosive and struggles to finish with authority. For a player who thrives off of beating defenders off the dribble, his lack of ability to explode and finish with the best of them is concerning … Tends to drive to the left and shoot with his right … Struggles at the free-throw line, shooting around 65% in International competitions ... Can he develop his body and become a tough player capable of finishing with contact?
Notes: Exum’s father played on UNC’s 1982 national championship team with Michael Jordan … Attended the Australian Institute of Sport, an elite high school for gifted athletes, which has produced NBA players such as Andrew Bogut and Patty Mills … At 15, Exum became the youngest player to ever be on the Australian national team. The head coach of that squad at the time was Brett Brown, the current coach of the 76ers … Exum was named to the All-Tournament Team at both the U–17 and U–19 World Championships in 2012 and 2013, respectively … Led Australia to the semifinals in the 2013 U–19 World Championships. In 9 games, he averaged 18.2 points, 3.8 assists, and 1.7 steals per contest… Played for the international select team at the 2013 Nike Hoop Summit. Helped his team to a victory over a US squad led by Jabari Parker and Julius Randle, with 16 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, and one block … Displayed his speed, quickness, and agility at the NBA Combine in the lane agility (2nd overall), shuttle (6th overall), and sprint (8th overall) drills.
Outlook: We have seen enough of Exum to know that he is one of the best under-20 players in the world, but he still has quite a ways to go before becoming a star in the NBA… The areas that he needs to focus on are his ball-handling, decision-making, and outside shooting, especially if he wants to reach his goal of being a Derek Rose-like point guard… The potential is there, so much so, that he will likely be drafted ahead of a number of players who are more NBA-ready. http://www.nbadraft.net/players/dante-exum
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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NRTU When Oberon chooses to not come here can we go back to hating him? 
<><
#gmstrong
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J/C
Blatt runs the princeton offense; Byron Scott tried his best in implementing it before here. Who says Blatt has any better luck? Reports were that Scott dropped it day one because no one on our roster had the basketball IQ to implement said system. What makes this time around any different?
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Quote:
J/C
Blatt runs the princeton offense; Byron Scott tried his best in implementing it before here. Who says Blatt has any better luck? Reports were that Scott dropped it day one because no one on our roster had the basketball IQ to implement said system. What makes this time around any different?
maybe Blatt tries for more than 1 day?
#gmstrong
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 One thing I know....you need a center to play that O. "Z" would have been perfect in that O since he could nail 3's.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Hmm ...... this could be interesting ...... perhaps. I still want Wiggins though. It is apparent that the Cavaliers will have numerous options tomorrow. Report: Cavaliers interested in Magic's trade offer for No. 1 pick - CBSSports.com http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...r-for-no-1-pickThe Cavaliers don't know what they're doing with the No. 1 pick on Thursday yet. That is pretty much certain. They're still debating Jabari Parker vs. Andrew Wiggins, and another player like Dante Exum could rocket up the board because this is the Cavs. They're also receiving strong offers to trade the No. 1, offers that have yet to really get them interested, but ESPN reports there is an offer that has caught their eye from Orlando. Of the offers they've received, a source says the Cavs aren't enamored by either the Sixers' offer Thaddeus Young and the No. 3 pick nor the Jazz's offer Derrick Favors and the No. 5 pick. However, the Cavs do have some interest in the Magic's offer of Arron Afflalo, the No. 4 pick and the No. 12 pick. via Cleveland Cavaliers torn on who to draft first - ESPN. So a near-All-Star two-guard last season, and two top-12 picks? That's not bad at all. I mean, Kevin Love would be a better get, and those talks have seemingly died. But it's not a bad offer for the No. 1. Of course Afflalo isn't a snug fit with Dion Waiters on the roster. If the Cavs want to keep Waiters they'd have to move him to the three and that gets a little complicated in terms of defense. But Waiters would make a great separate trade chip, and Afflalo next to Kyrie Irving could light up the scoreboard while defending well. At No. 4 and No. 12 the Cavs could take a big (Julius Randle, Noah Vonleh) and another wing for depth, or they could snag Aaron Gordon to fill in at small forward, where they've been looking for answers for years. Orlando, meanwhile, could take either Parker or Wiggins and it's a snug fit. Wiggins next to Victor Oladipo could make for the best defensive backcourt in basketball in three years, while Parker would give the Magic a legitimate scorer and playmaker in the frontcourt alongside all the athletic size they've accumulated. And there may be better offers that come in before Thursday. Again, the only thing we know for sure with Cleveland is that they don't know yet.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,979
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,979 |
I know this sounds crazy, but I still kinda want Embiid. I'd welcome a trade down to possibly pick him up.
There seem to be too many question marks, and if the medical isn't made available, it won't even be a consideration.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,418 |
I wouldn't touch Embiid. (unless we trade down for extra assets, and are able to grab him with the 2nd of 2 first round draft picks)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
Quote:
I know this sounds crazy, but I still kinda want Embiid. I'd welcome a trade down to possibly pick him up.
There seem to be too many question marks, and if the medical isn't made available, it won't even be a consideration.
I think that's why you're hearing reports of "The Cavs are torn between Parker and Wiggins" ... I think they're trying to get a trading partner like say, Philly, to bite and trade their two firsts to move up to #1 and get their guy.
*IF* he can stay healthy, Embiid is probably the best guy in the draft ... but that seems like a huge 7'foot-sized IF now. I think Wiggins is obviously the pick, with these reports of Parker showing up overweight and basically tanking the individual workout. I think the Cavs really wanted Embiid, the Bucks really wanted Parker, and Philly really wanted Wiggins ... but this injury shook everything up. The Cavs are trying to bait someone into a trade, because the top of the list just got shorter.
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
I hope they are just doing their due diligence and seeing if they can get an outrageously good package, and seeing who is available in a trade for the right price. Neither the #5+Favors nor the #4+#12+Afflalo would even give me pause in declining. Seriously, who cares about Arron Afflalo? How much value does a 28 going on 29 year old shooting guard with a PER of 16 really provide? I would look at that move as highway robbery for the Magic and another short-sighted desperation attempt to try to win now for the Cavs. Now add in next year's unprotected first rounder and it's a compelling offer.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
The owner wants Wiggins. Everyone else wants Parker.
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