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"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Quote:
j/c/
I like it Clem 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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What a shock. Middle aged white guys don't see what is offensive about the name "Redskins," and if they aren't offended, no one should be offended. That's the ticket.
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Hall of Famer
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What a shock. Middle aged '' white guys " don't see what is offensive about the name " Redskins," and if they aren't offended, no one should be offended.
That's the ticket.
The name ' white guys " is just as offensive as the name " Redskins," please stop using it.
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Legend
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Quote:
What a shock. Middle aged white guys don't see what is offensive about the name "Redskins," and if they aren't offended, no one should be offended.
That's the ticket.
Which one of us said that?
I said SHOW ME where a Majority of Native Americans CARE.. And instead, you decide to turn it into an indictment of middle aged white men 
If you go to an Indians game, you'll see a few protestors. The most I've ever seen was back when the indians were contenders in the late 90's and then it was about 15 of them protesting while 40,000 people flowed into Jacobs Field to watch a game.
15 protestors Vs 40,000 Baseball fans.....
The ONLY reason this is getting this much play is that there is a group of people that whine about everything and they keep whining but DO THEY REPRESENT a majority?
NOT THAT I'VE SEEN.
Let's try this example...
I don't like your handle on here,, I think 3 others don't like it and we vote to have your handle changed. We're going to picket outside your home until you agree to change it. We will petition the courts to condemn your name.. All four of us will join forces to get you to change your Handle.
To hell with the wishes or desires or beliefs of the other 4000 posters on this board, what do that know anyway.. I'm offended by your handle.. And I'm going to whine about it until grow up and change it.
Does that help you understand how stupid all this is now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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Yes, I do see how "stupid" some of it is.
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Legend
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I was laughing at the Caucasians mock up. I thought it was funny. Nothing more. Nothing less. (at least on that particular image)
As far as offensive ........ I remember hearing about the plight of the Irish around earlier in our country's history. They had this image, stereotype actually, of being drunks, and people who would fight at the drop of a hat. Nobody wanted to hire the Irish, and in fact, many businesses had signs that stated, flat out, "Irish need not apply".
So ...... we have the "Fighting Irish" today, with an icon with his fists up.
The most popular iteration of this Notre Dame ..... a university started by a French Priest and 7 companions. (according to their website)
At one time, the Irish certainly had major reason to be offended. The stereotype, though, faded with time. I doubt that today's person of Irish descent is all that offended by the "Fighting Irish" name or logo.
We have all kinds of icons and cartoons that are based on stereotypes. How much of a negative connotation is associated with the word "Redskin" these days? I would argue that very little is. How many disparage Native Americans because of the name? I would argue that the reverse is true. Some people are more interested in the history of native Americans because of these names and icons. Nobody looks at a Native American with disdain because of the name. Instead, many will have a more positive association because of the team, its name, and the logo.
I just think that we take offense at far too many things that simply are not all that important. That is JMHO. Would I feel differently if I were a Native American? Who knows? I doubt it though. Those kind of things just don't matter all that much to me. I bet that few people even use the term "redskin" unless it is associated with the team in DC. The disparaging aspect of the word has vanished. It has no power for most people. I think that, in that way, the name has been a good thing.
I mean, seriously, who goes and points at a native American these days and laughs "Redskin!"? I would guess that it is very rare occurrence. The word is almost never used, except in reference to the team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Yes, I do see how "stupid" some of it is.
You could have fooled me because you just keep on harping on it and trying your best to put those with differing opinions down....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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This should solve the problem with the name!  
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I see your points. I personally don't think the name "Fighting Irish" is derogatory at all, but perhaps you do.
Did you read the article I posted? Do you not see how it is hypocritical that you can't utter one negative word about African Americans and Gays, yet you can use a stereotypical insult on Native Americans? Did you read the crap about the player who was fined for his tweet about Sam being drafted? Are you kidding me?
Once again, I just think that the Native Americans are such a small minority that most people don't care about them. Meanwhile, you have to be very, very careful when you are talking about an African American or a gay person. It's a hypocritical double standard and I don't like it.
Let me give you an example. At my former school, we had to pick 6 kids to be honored at promotion. Our administrators insisted that half of the kids we picked were African American. I did not like being pressured into picking someone just to meet a quota. I had conversations w/my administrator about this and asked why don't we have to pick at least one Hispanic kid. The answer was: "...they don't make as much noise about being slighted as the African Americans do."
I feel that is what is going on in much of our society. It's not about equality. It's about appeasing those who make the most noise and ignoring the rights of those who don't have much of a voice. That bothers me.
I believe that we should treat all groups w/respect. It should not take getting into trouble to treat a group of people w/respect and dignity. Treating people decently should come from a sense of doing what is right, rather than doing what is trending on the politically correct scale at a particular time.
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Once again, your reading comprehension is lacking. 
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Dawg Talker
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 Image of a non-minority. Everybody cool with that?
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Legend
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Once again, your reading comprehension is lacking.
As is typical, when confronted with fact, you resort to insults..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"Fighting Irish" would have been seen by the Irish as offensively as a white man using the N word.
The drunk/fighting stereotype of the Irish was so strong at one time (Mid 1800s) that many Irish immigrants could not find work, because no one wanted to hire them. Many of them were Catholic, which caused even further issues in Protestant areas. Because they couldn;t find work, many Irish would also work for ridiculously low wages, which caused them further problems, because they took jobs away from longstanding residents of the areas in which they resided.
Yes, Fighting Irish would have been seen as extremely offensive to Irish people at one time.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Did you read the article I posted? Do you not see how it is hypocritical that you can't utter one negative word about African Americans and Gays, yet you can use a stereotypical insult on Native Americans? Did you read the crap about the player who was fined for his tweet about Sam being drafted? Are you kidding me?
And I believe the point your're making can be taken one step further. The N word was used at a time and intended as a racial slur. So the black community decided they preferred the word negro. So much so they call thing The United Negro College Fund. They also at one point liked the name colored. So much so that they named an organization The National Association For The Advancement of Colored People.
Throughout my lifetime I've seen the black community, at least in part, change their minds as what they wish to be called. Afro Americans, black and the prior two I mentioned. Every time society tries to force us to conform with their wishes. And why? I understand the N word being offensive, but why should we as a nation be expected to change our terminology every time someone decides they want it to be change it? The name of the UNCF and the NAACP hasn't been changed, so why are others held to a different standard?
And what exactly was in the tweet you describe that was so terribly offensive? I'm sure many Christian families were as much if not more offended by what was shown as "the kiss" on ESPN. And their numbers are many. So to me, it's far more about catering to people than it is anything else.
While you may view Native Americans a small minority, and you would be correct, Christians are not. Yet it seems nobody seems to mind offending them. Now I'm not saying all Christians were offended, but I'd bet more people were upset by that public display than there are Native Americans who are offended by the name Redskins.
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Meanwhile, you have to be very, very careful when you are talking about an African American or a gay person. It's a hypocritical double standard and I don't like it.
Maybe the fact when we're told to jump, we say "how high" is more of the problem here.
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I feel that is what is going on in much of our society. It's not about equality. It's about appeasing those who make the most noise and ignoring the rights of those who don't have much of a voice. That bothers me.
It's about getting votes and winning elections. And that should bother you.
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I believe that we should treat all groups w/respect. It should not take getting into trouble to treat a group of people w/respect and dignity. Treating people decently should come from a sense of doing what is right, rather than doing what is trending on the politically correct scale at a particular time.
I believe any time a majority of a said group can be shown to be offended, we should change it. I believe it was a minority of the black community which kept changing their minds about what they wished to be called and expected everyone else to cater to it.
I feel the same way about illegal immigration. I mean some find it offensive to even call it what it is, Illegal. They wish to gloss over that fact and reward people for breaking our immigration laws. Am I wrong or insensitive by stating those facts?
I believe if the majority of Native Americans are shown to actually be offended by the term Redskins, I would get behind the idea of changing the name. I haven't seen anything that shows that. I feel the exact same way by most social issues. I believe having a minority of any group creating an atmosphere dictating the change of our society is not right.
And at the very least, if a race or group of people want things changed, they need to change it within their own race as well. Expecting everyone else to change and then trying to flaunt it in everyone's face that your race is somehow the exception to the rule isn't helping their cause and just helps breed contempt. If you're not being a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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You have a true gift for taking one very small part of a post and expounding on it while ignoring the main idea of the post.
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And what exactly was in the tweet you describe that was so terribly offensive?
Nothing was offensive, Pit. That was my point. The player in question received all kinds of negative feedback and was fined a substantial amount and forced to go sensitivity training. For what? Because the NFL deemed that he offended a minority group by saying "OMG" and "Horrible" in a tweet. This is the same NFL that doesn't think the name "Redskins" is offensive. LMAO man. That's is exactly the hypocritical double standard that I was speaking of.
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It's about getting votes and winning elections. And that should bother you.
Yes, it does bother me........and again, that was my point. These decisions are not being made because they are right or wrong, they are being made by which group has the loudest voice. I think that is wrong and it is my right to speak out on the situation.
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I believe if the majority of Native Americans are shown to actually be offended by the term Redskins, I would get behind the idea of changing the name. I haven't seen anything that shows that. I feel the exact same way by most social issues. I believe having a minority of any group creating an atmosphere dictating the change of our society is not right.
That's a good point. I don't know if the majority is offended or not. I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that. Stats can tell us anything the author of a study wants them to tell us. We both know that. And again, I don't even want them to be forced by the government to change the name. I want Snyder and the NFL to realize that the name is offensive and that it does represent a repressed group of people in a negative light. I wish that they would just do the right thing and change the name on their own.
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And at the very least, if a race or group of people want things changed, they need to change it within their own race as well. Expecting everyone else to change and then trying to flaunt it in everyone's face that your race is somehow the exception to the rule isn't helping their cause and just helps breed contempt. If you're not being a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem.
I agree w/this completely. I doubt that you see many --if any--Native Americans addressing each other as "Redskin."
Pit, I think we actually agree on quite a bit here, other than----you know---whether or not Snyder should change the name. 
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Yes, I read the rest. Quote:
Did you read the article I posted? Do you not see how it is hypocritical that you can't utter one negative word about African Americans and Gays, yet you can use a stereotypical insult on Native Americans? Did you read the crap about the player who was fined for his tweet about Sam being drafted? Are you kidding me?
Yes, I agree. I posted the article about the guy who was suspended for posting 2 words about Sams, and I thought that it was BS, I hate that we have to carefully monitor everything we say, lest we "offend" someone. I greatly dislike the PC Police, Personally, I don't like the "N" word ...... but if black people can and do use it between one another, then they should not be offended when someone "outside" uses it.
As far as Sams ...... I think that, if he makes it onto an NFL roster, that he'll probably hear a lot worse things in a game than "Wow, Terrible". I think that it is ridiculous that a guy gets suspended and forced into reprogramming classes for having an opinion.
I have already gone over this on the other thread. I didn't think that it was necessary to recap it here too.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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~ Legend
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I think you guys would have an actual point if this was more common of a thing. I remember a certain Browns player from 2 years ago posting homophobic nonsense on twitter and the Browns didn't say a word.
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Legend
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Quote:
Pit, I think we actually agree on quite a bit here, other than----you know---whether or not Snyder should change the name.
And I'm not really sure we are so different about that.
I do think it would be a good thing for him to change the name. I simply won't go to the extent that I believe he should be forced to. We agree on what the end result should be, just not how to go about it so it seems.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Dan Snyder on name change: “Over my dead body” Posted by Darin Gantt on June 13, 2014, 7:35 AM EDT APAt a time when public pressure seems greater than ever, Redskins owner Dan Snyder seems to be digging in deeper on the subject of his team’s nickname. During an interview with Jim Rome on Showtime this week, NBC Sunday Night Football play-by-play man Al Michaels was asked if he thought Snyder would try to hang onto the name despite the complaints. “It seems to me as if he is going to hold on,” Michaels said, via the Washington Post. “I mean all of the sudden — I mean, for 70-some odd years this was a zero issue, and then it became an issue. I understand we live in this politically correct environment. It’s crazier than ever; you know, senators want to weigh in on this, like there’s nothing better to do in Congress. This becomes a big issue. I mean, I just think it’s nuts. “And I do know, I’ve talked to Snyder about it — not recently but when we were in Washington last year — and he basically said ‘over my dead body.’” The defiant stance is nothing new from Snyder, which is unsurprising http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/13/dan-snyder-on-name-change-over-my-dead-body/
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
and he basically said ‘over my dead body.’”
He basically said?? Either he did or he didn't, but it's a good way for the media to stir the pot and get a bigger story brewing when people jump on Snyder for saying something that he didn't really say. But it got printed, so the opponents will run as if they were words right out of his mouth.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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