Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Quote:

It was Wade's team first and I don't see Riley pulling a Fredo-on-the-lake to Dwayne this offseason.






I was laughing a week ago thinking ... wouldn't it be funny if Wade opted out, and then they just refused to sign him for anything less than the vet minimum. Because they probably should do that.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
A
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
A
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
I agree about Wade, he probably will play his whole career in Miami. I could see James wanting another early opt out if he stays in Miami. He's a very smart basketball guy, he knows Wade is at the end of the road. There are better opportunities for James long-term, and I believe he knows that..

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
A
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
A
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
LeBron James will have a completely different process and a different priority when he opens his free agency at 12:01 a.m. ET on Tuesday than he did in 2010, sources told ESPN.com.






Teams who contact James will be informed that he wants no less than the maximum salary number for next season, sources said. The max number is projected to be $22.2 million. In 2010, James accepted a pay cut when he signed with the Miami Heat, taking less than the maximum salary to help make space for other free agents.

Also, as of now, James is not scheduling any pitch meetings with teams -- he will let agent Rich Paul handle the opening stages of talks. In 2010, he scheduled six meetings with teams at his offices in Cleveland over the first three days of July.

James' demands for the length of his next deal is in flux. After the Finals, James said flexibility was important to him, hinting that he may not be looking for a full four or five-year contract.

This information could shake up the contenders for James and also sends the message that James, who has never been the single highest-paid player on his team in his 11-year career, is not as willing to personally sacrifice money to improve the roster as he was in the past. That burden may now fall to teammates such as Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.

Currently seven teams have the cap space to offer James a deal starting at $22.2 million next season: the Heat, the Dallas Mavericks, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Phoenix Suns, the Utah Jazz, Philadelphia 76ers and the Orlando Magic.

The Lakers and Suns, known to be serious bidders, have the space to add James and other high-level free agents. The Heat have the most cap space $55 million, but have Wade and Bosh to attend to as well. Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said over the weekend that his team did not plan to make any max contract offers to free agents.

Without cap space, the only other way to get to James' requisite number is to execute a sign-and-trade, which would require the Heat's cooperation, or make additional moves to clear up cap space.

At least three teams currently without the needed cap space who are known to want to chase James are the Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls. All three would need to execute significant shuffling and perhaps even offload star players to clear $22.2 million in room.

These details have led to a growing pessimism among teams that James is seriously considering leaving the Heat. ESPN reported on Sunday that the Bulls and Rockets have scheduled in-person free agent meetings this week with Carmelo Anthony as a top offseason target.

Over the weekend, ESPN reported that James, Bosh and Wade discussed financial terms on potential new deals with the Heat at a meeting last week in Miami. It is against NBA rules for teams to negotiate with pending free agents before July 1 but players are free to discuss contract terms amongst themselves.

If James follows through with his demands and signs a deal starting at the full max number and the Heat also re-sign Bosh and Wade then Miami will likely not be left with appreciable salary-cap space even if Wade and Bosh accept pay cuts.

However, there are scenarios where the Heat could re-sign all three players plus veterans Udonis Haslem and Ray Allen and still be able to use the $5.3 million mid-level exception, the $2 million bi-annual exception and still have a $2.2 million trade exception to use to bring in some new role players.

http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamihea...-maximum-salary

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Quote:

At least three teams currently without the needed cap space who are known to want to chase James are the Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls. All three would need to execute significant shuffling and perhaps even offload star players to clear $22.2 million in room.




Uh ... the Cavs don't: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm ... their "significant shuffling" would be "not picking up the option on Anderson Varejao".

That said, it's sort of funny that the media is drumming up all this speculation on Lebron now. I guess you can't sell newspapers if it's obvious he's going back to the Heat.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,061
M
Legend
Online
Legend
M
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 19,061
Quote:

Quote:

At least three teams currently without the needed cap space who are known to want to chase James are the Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls. All three would need to execute significant shuffling and perhaps even offload star players to clear $22.2 million in room.




Uh ... the Cavs don't: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm ... their "significant shuffling" would be "not picking up the option on Anderson Varejao".

That said, it's sort of funny that the media is drumming up all this speculation on Lebron now. I guess you can't sell newspapers if it's obvious he's going back to the Heat.




And Alonzo Gee is gone so that money comes off the books too, right? And we have a player names Scotty Hopson? Well, that's a team option as well.

Man, that Jarrett Jack contract looks rough....


At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
N
Legend
Offline
Legend
N
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Quote:

Quote:

It was Wade's team first and I don't see Riley pulling a Fredo-on-the-lake to Dwayne this offseason.






I was laughing a week ago thinking ... wouldn't it be funny if Wade opted out, and then they just refused to sign him for anything less than the vet minimum. Because they probably should do that.




It would be hilarious though a Bernie "diminishing skills" moment for Heat fans (hey, they have a few).


#gmstrong
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
A
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
A
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
We took on Haywood's few million this year, but next year we have a huge asset of his 10 million non-guaranteed. We could use his contract next summer to grab another star talent. that was brilliant by griffin.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
I forgot about having to offer Kyrie a max extension this summer ... that's going to cloud up the cap-space a bit.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
A
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
A
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
I read somewhere that doesn't kick in til next summer. Not positive on that.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
P
PDR Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Don't forget that there's cap holds, as well.

As a first move, I'd like to try to bring Hawes back. We need some defense in the middle, but we need the spacing he brings as well.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
$4.4-ish million for a number one pick.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

At least three teams currently without the needed cap space who are known to want to chase James are the Cleveland Cavaliers, Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls. All three would need to execute significant shuffling and perhaps even offload star players to clear $22.2 million in room.




Uh ... the Cavs don't: http://hoopshype.com/salaries/cleveland.htm ... their "significant shuffling" would be "not picking up the option on Anderson Varejao".

That said, it's sort of funny that the media is drumming up all this speculation on Lebron now. I guess you can't sell newspapers if it's obvious he's going back to the Heat.




And Alonzo Gee is gone so that money comes off the books too, right? And we have a player names Scotty Hopson? Well, that's a team option as well.

Man, that Jarrett Jack contract looks rough....




Supposedly the Cavaliers have been looking at moving Jack.

Also, someone mentioned Andy ....... we can dump his deal, but we'd still be on the hook for his buyout of, IIRC, $4 million.

We also picked up Haywood, who missed all of last year. and whch may not seem like a big deal ...... but he has a $2 million or so salary this year, and a $10.5 (IIRC) million salary next year that is 100% NOT guaranteed ..... and which could be useful for ringing in another big deal next year.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh want more than reported paycuts - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...eported-paycuts

Goes to show you how fast free agency rumors move. After reports surfaced that Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh were looking at starting salaries as low as $12 and $11 million respectively, Ken Berger of CBSSports.com and the agent for both players confirm that those numbers aren't accurate.

agree MT @EthanJSkolnick: Based on my info, the numbers being reported for Bosh & Wade are much lower than what I expect them to accept.

— Ken Berger (@KBergCBS) July 1, 2014
Agent Henry Thomas, on report clients Bosh & Wade will take $12M/per & $11M/per, respectively: "all the BS you are reading is just that."

— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) July 1, 2014
If those reports are inaccurate and both players will take more, the Heat could wind up with significantly less than the reported $12 million. That could significantly limit their ability to add free agents. The names on the Heat's list include Kyle Lowry, Luol Deng, and Trevor Ariza, all of which are expected to receive significantly more money per year than what the Heat could have in total.

LeBron James is expected to take the max, starting at just over $20 million. With an estimated salary cap of $63 million, if Bosh and Wade take starting salaries in the $30 million combined range, plus the guaranteed money owed to Norris Cole and rookie Shabazz Napier, the Heat would have to use roughly $9 million to fill out the remaining seven roster spots. Even with several players on veteran-minimum exceptions, that could make things tough.

The truth is no one knows how much the Big 3 are going to take yet, and if that's the case, it casts further doubt on Miami's ability to upgrade the roster from a team that lost the Finals in five games last season.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
S
Legend
Offline
Legend
S
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,027
stuff like that makes me think lebron ain't goin back.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
A
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
A
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,186
Lowry is off the market. Who is Riley going to get? Kris Humphries? Man what a disaster for Riley. Unless Lebron and the rest take massive pay cuts, it will be over in Miami.. Still holding out hope Lebron will give the Cavs a meeting.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
The problem that the Heat face is that, generally speaking, only upper level older players near the end of their careers, (who are in decline) and/or those who are mostly role players, might be willing to play for an exemption or exception ...... but guys entering the prime of their careers will not be so willing to do so.

Further, many teams have huge amounts of cap room to spend. Lowrey, for example, is 28, and at the top of his prime earning portion of his career. Why would he take a fraction of that contract now? He got an average of $12 million, and he might still be effective when this deal ends, and able to chase that "veteran championship".

I read something about Lebron only wanting a 1-2 year deal with the Heat. (at most) He knows that a team with an aging Wade (and with a 4 year deal) and with Bosh in for 5, is probably not a great option as a long term championship possibility.

The Heat also have to replace Chris Anderson just to get back to being as good as they were last year. However, if reports are correct and Wade wants 4 years and $60 million .... and Bosh wants 5 years and $80-90 million .... then they aren't going to be able to do so.

Could be an interesting free agent period. Who knows what might wind up happening?


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
They might as well of just opted in and done this next year...


Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
I have a feeling that they thought that certain players .... like Kyle Lowrey for example, would just drop down to their knees and be so happy to join the Heat that they would take half their going rate to come aboard.

There's just too much money floating around for that to happen.

They will, obviously, still fill out their roster, and probably sign some guys like Rat Allen and others ..... but their depth could be even worse than last year.

I wish I could find it, but I saw an ESPN video where they broke down the Heat and the problems they face in rebuilding the team from almost zero. If they have to give Lebron $20 million, Wade $13 million, and Bosh $17 million, combined with Cole's salary .... and the draft ...... and then take care of Haslem at maybe $2.5 mil ........ they have very little left to do much with.

It was interesting, to say the least.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING


You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.


[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



As a matter of semantics, that's why he will never be VIEWED as being as good as Jordan by many.. whether he is actually that good or not is, and always will be, debated...


yebat' Putin
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



I tend to agree but let's not forget that Jordan played with one of the best two-way small forwards of all time in Pippen, great defensive/rebounding bigs in Grant and Rodman, lots of good role players, one of the best coaches of all time, etc. In Jordan's first year of 'retirement', the Bulls went 55-27 and were the 3 seed in the East. I'm pointing this out less as a way to defend LeBron but the Nike-driven Jordan would never let his team lose (except to the Pistons) just gets out of hand sometimes.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,349
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



As a matter of semantics, that's why he will never be VIEWED as being as good as Jordan by many.. whether he is actually that good or not is, and always will be, debated...


You're right. since it is all a subjective discussion, but I think those on The Jordan side of the debate have a pretty solid case. SIX NBA Finals appearances and SIX Titles out of those six appearances make a good case. Yeah MJ had good teams too, but they had to compete and MJ didnt disappear when things got tough.


You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



I tend to agree but let's not forget that Jordan played with one of the best two-way small forwards of all time in Pippen, great defensive/rebounding bigs in Grant and Rodman, lots of good role players, one of the best coaches of all time, etc. In Jordan's first year of 'retirement', the Bulls went 55-27 and were the 3 seed in the East. I'm pointing this out less as a way to defend LeBron but the Nike-driven Jordan would never let his team lose (except to the Pistons) just gets out of hand sometimes.




But he won with them. Lebron teamed up with two other stars in Wade and Bosh and is 2-2 in the finals with them. Jordan didn't mind when he had to put the team in his back and drop 50+ on a team. He relished those opportunities. When Lebron has to do that it's used as an excuse as to him having to do too much and his body language seems like he doesn't want to have to do that.

It just seems like to me Lebron doesn't want to work for the rings too hard. He wants an easy path and instead of carrying a team he wants to get his double/double (occational tripple dub) with 28pts and that's it. If he has to score 30+ he is doing too much.


[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



As a matter of semantics, that's why he will never be VIEWED as being as good as Jordan by many.. whether he is actually that good or not is, and always will be, debated...




Understood, but that is why I stated "in my eyes". I know that some regard Lebron as better than Jordan and that is their opinion.

And for what it's worth, as a long time Cavs fan, starting with the Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, Larry Nance, Craig Ehlo era I hated Jordan growing up.


[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



I tend to agree but let's not forget that Jordan played with one of the best two-way small forwards of all time in Pippen, great defensive/rebounding bigs in Grant and Rodman, lots of good role players, one of the best coaches of all time, etc. In Jordan's first year of 'retirement', the Bulls went 55-27 and were the 3 seed in the East. I'm pointing this out less as a way to defend LeBron but the Nike-driven Jordan would never let his team lose (except to the Pistons) just gets out of hand sometimes.




Those ad campaigns are grounded in reality.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/?p=851

It's fairly long, and a lot of math, but here's the first paragraph:

"There’s no shortage of ways to describe Michael Jordan’s greatness. But here’s a particularly astonishing one: MJ was never part of a three-game losing streak from November 1990 until he retired from the Bulls (for the second time) in 1998. This streak, brought to my attention in Bill Simmons’ recent “Trade Value List” column, includes 500 regular season games and 126 playoff games, for a total span of 626 games. Just how unlikely was this streak? Let’s start by determining the chances for a typical .500 team."

and here's the answer:

"When using this formula to calculate the odds we get .000000000000166% chance of avoiding such a streak with a .500 team which is about one in one quadrillion. "

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
R
Legend
Offline
Legend
R
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,024
Jordan was always his teams best post player as well as perimeter player. Anyone that has played basketball knows how much easier the game gets when you have a presence inside. Jordan won with the likes of guys named Wennington, Purdue, and Longley. To me, that is particularly impressive. Think about this. Kobe never won without the best center in the league on his team. At a minimum Pau was the best scoring big man in the game during those two championships.

Add to the fact that Jordan's stats always get better as the stakes get higher...and it's hard to say anyone is better.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
NRTU

I think you guys are misinterpreting what I'm saying (or perhaps I just wasn't clear enough.)

I never degraded what Jordan accomplished. He's rightfully considered one of the best, and perhaps the best player of all time. I was pointing out that he played with a well deserving all-NBA caliber small forward for all of his championships, and played with other very good players too.. e.g. Rodman was an elite defensive and rebounding big. Nobody wins championships in the NBA by themselves. Jordan was the best player of course, but he shouldn't get credit for carrying the team by himself. The team won 55 games and was a game away from the ECF in his retirement!

Question: What is a better/more successful season: Getting to the Finals and losing, or getting bounced in the Eastern Conference playoffs? I happen to think the former, but it's like those 3 straight seasons that the Pistons beat Jordan's Bulls are completely forgotten. I mean... 6 championships is an amazing enough accomplishment as is. I just think things get embellished when the storyline is the Jordan would will his team to victory whenever he wanted.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe The Big Three should just improve their games and play better instead of thinking that they need to have a stacked roster to where they can just walk over everybody.

Its almost like Lebron expects to be on a team that basically is invincible like its a freaking video game or something.

KING




Hense why he will never be as good as Jordan in my eyes.



I tend to agree but let's not forget that Jordan played with one of the best two-way small forwards of all time in Pippen, great defensive/rebounding bigs in Grant and Rodman, lots of good role players, one of the best coaches of all time, etc. In Jordan's first year of 'retirement', the Bulls went 55-27 and were the 3 seed in the East. I'm pointing this out less as a way to defend LeBron but the Nike-driven Jordan would never let his team lose (except to the Pistons) just gets out of hand sometimes.




Those ad campaigns are grounded in reality.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/?p=851

It's fairly long, and a lot of math, but here's the first paragraph:

"There’s no shortage of ways to describe Michael Jordan’s greatness. But here’s a particularly astonishing one: MJ was never part of a three-game losing streak from November 1990 until he retired from the Bulls (for the second time) in 1998. This streak, brought to my attention in Bill Simmons’ recent “Trade Value List” column, includes 500 regular season games and 126 playoff games, for a total span of 626 games. Just how unlikely was this streak? Let’s start by determining the chances for a typical .500 team."

and here's the answer:

"When using this formula to calculate the odds we get .000000000000166% chance of avoiding such a streak with a .500 team which is about one in one quadrillion. "



Not one mention of coaching, any other Bulls player, or any basketball related stats. It should read something like, There’s no shortage of ways to describe the greatness of the 90s Bulls, led by Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, et al."

That is kind of a disappointing oversight coming from Harvard students.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,887
Quote:

3 straight seasons that the Pistons beat Jordan's Bulls are completely forgotten I just think things get embellished when the storyline is the Jordan would will his team to victory whenever he wanted.




I don't think they are forgotten, but they are though of him as being young and not into his prime yet and/or learning how to win. Obviously he didn't do it by himself but there were many games/series where it was.

List of highest playoff series scoring averages in National Basketball Association history

Jordan can take over a series, and Lebron can to. The first ring was all Lebron IMO. However, IMO he doesn't have the competitiveness that Jordan had.

I'm not discounting Lebron, he is in the discussion for sure, I just think Jordan was better.


[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Quote:

Quote:

3 straight seasons that the Pistons beat Jordan's Bulls are completely forgotten I just think things get embellished when the storyline is the Jordan would will his team to victory whenever he wanted.




I don't think they are forgotten, but they are though of him as being young and not into his prime yet and/or learning how to win. Obviously he didn't do it by himself but there were many games/series where it was.

List of highest playoff series scoring averages in National Basketball Association history

Jordan can take over a series, and Lebron can to. The first ring was all Lebron IMO. However, IMO he doesn't have the competitiveness that Jordan had.

I'm not discounting Lebron, he is in the discussion for sure, I just think Jordan was better.



Young and not into his prime? He was in his mid 20s and one was an MVP season. Maybe Pippen was young and not in his prime yet, Phil Jackson wasn't the head coach yet, and Rodman was still playing for the other side. Again, even if Jordan was the most valuable player on that team... which he clearly was... nobody does it themself.

I haven't even mentioned Lebron. I would rather talk about anybody else at this point but of course he isn't in the discussion. He's only 29. Give it some years and he might be.

I will say this, I think two players really stick out to me in the post-MJ era. Duncan and Lebron. Right now in that order but that will probably change eventually.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Hard to disagree, but it's also hard to not mention Kobe.

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
I would put Shaq over Kobe as it relates to their three peat..

And drop both of them cause they both had to team up with someone like the other (Shaq got Wade, Kobe got Gasol) to win more titles..

I've also felt about Kobe that just because someone can score, doesn't mean their one of the best ever (He's top 10-15 obviously)

I'd rather have a guy like LeBron putting up 40-10-8 then a guy that scores 60.. or even 81 against a terrible Raptors team..


Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
San Antonio will just give Miami another beatdown if the Big 3 don't have a better supporting cast around them. Missing on Kyle Lowry really hurt them.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
I agree. However, Kobe has been synonymous with the NBA since his first title. I also don't think he's the best of his "generation" (I'd give that to AI or Tracy McGrady if we're talking about potential/fantasy debates). but again, just weird to not see Kobe up there since he's been the face of the NBA since Jordan to LBJ.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Quote:

Hard to disagree, but it's also hard to not mention Kobe.



We could mention him, but I agree with ThatGuy that Shaq was the best player on those Lakers teams that 3-peated. I don't even think it's close, actually. He also wasn't as efficient on offense as players like MJ and Lebron (check their PERs). Kobe's D was often overhyped. He had great ability but just as often as not when I watched him, he was lazy on D, slow to get back, and gambled a lot.

Don't get me wrong-- I think he was a great, great player. Just the next tier down from the Duncan and Lebron level.

Of course, I seem to recall Cavs fans overwhelmingly saying the same thing several years back. What changed that?

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Quote:

Of course, I seem to recall Cavs fans overwhelmingly saying the same thing several years back. What changed that?




They don't have to belittle Kobe if they aren't Defending LeBron anymore..

2010 I was in AIT during the playoffs, got to see a few games here and there.

The entire time I was having a Kobe v LeBron discussion with someone in my platoon. Then after Le Decision, he asked me if I still thought LeBron was better..

"Just because he's a worthless dbag doesn't mean he's not the more complete player" was my response...


Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,513
Well .... who know what the heck will wind up happening?



Cleveland Cavaliers one of at least four teams to meet with LeBron James' agent: Report | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2014/07/cleveland_cavaliers_one_of_at.html#incart_m-rpt-1

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Things were quiet surrounding LeBron James during the first two days of free agency. That changed on Thursday night.

The Summer of LeBron Part Two is officially underway after word spread that James' agent Rich Paul, the man who has been given the responsibility of handling all free agency negotiations with prospective teams, met with at least four teams this week.

ESPN.com was first to report the meetings. The Cavaliers were reported as one of them. The Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns and Houston Rockets were also given the opportunity to make presentations to Paul.

Yahoo Sports reported three finalists could return to Cleveland next week to make another presentation in front of James. It's not clear yet if the Cavs will be on that list.

The recruitment of James is different than it was in 2010 when six teams came to the IMG building in downtown Cleveland to make their pitch to the four-time NBA MVP. This time, James is absent; instead choosing to vacation with his family, sharing photos and videos on Instagram. It leaves Paul to handle the initial discussions.

Miami is still looked at as the favorite for this off-season's top prize. The Heat has been to the NBA Finals four straight years. But Miami has yet to convince a free agent to come to the Heat in order to beef up James' supporting cast that led to the team's downfall during the NBA Finals against the San Antonio Spurs. Miami is believed to be interested in Los Angeles Lakers center Pau Gasol and sharpshooter Anthony Morrow, but there are no agreements in place.

This opens the door for other teams, including the Cavaliers, who began free agency by agreeing to a max contract extension with franchise cornerstone Kyrie Irving.

As teams attempt to pry James from the grasp of Pat Riley, LeBron is said to be looking for the team that gives him the best chance to win titles.

Of course, other factors may come into play as well. James may want to stay in the Eastern Conference, where the road to a title has fewer potholes. He may consider location, which would help his hometown Cavaliers. The coach, general manager and owner could get some consideration before picking his NBA home for the foreseeable future. He will consider his options and look at all the factors, but much like 2010, James' decision will likely come down to one thing: talent.

Unless Miami retools its roster, Thursday night's news was the first signal that James could contemplate taking his talents somewhere else this off-season.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,960
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,960
updated mojo

55% heat
35% cavs
10% other


President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
L
Legend
Offline
Legend
L
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 23,847
I guess the scuttlebutt is Lebron basically had his people tell the Cavs he'd seriously consider a move back, but only if the cavs make another major move to bring another star in..ie Love, melo etc. I don't know why people think miami is the best option for james...they got exposed this year and it won't be any better. Cavs have a good nucleus and you add lebron to it its pretty impressive, plus the cavs have 3 first round picks next year..including funny enough the one we got for lebron. I truly believe It will either be Miami or CLE. I think he wants to stay in the east. Missing out on Lowry was a pretty big blow for Riley. Going to be an interesting FA. I hope we can package waiters and jack for something, if nothing else to clear cap . I'd rather not pick up Andy's option and give that money to Hawes. Andy is a square peg in a round hole with this offense..maybe they restructure or something not sure..But i want nothing to do with Andy at 9 million..


Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Page 7 of 14 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 13 14
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum So, where will LeBron end up

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5