Well the Bible also says taking the Lords name in vain is a capital sin (Lev 24:16), and anyone who has been eunuch'd can't be in the congregation of the Lord (Deut 23:1) and if you're child is rebellious, to kill them with stones (Deut 21:18-21)
So I suppose compared to that, some good ol' slavery or gay bashing is just no big deal (tm)
The Old Testament Laws were fulfilled by the perfect life of Jesus Christ. He lived his life in perfect accord with the law, and when he sacrificed himself on the cross, he gave us (Christians) the benefit of his perfect life.
When a Christian stands before God's judgement, essentially God sees Jesus' perfect life, instead of the one we lived. The Law is no longer binding upon us. The Old Testament fills in the history of the Jewish faith, leading up to the arrival of the Messiah. The New Testament tells us of the life of the Messiah, and His instruction going forward. The New Testament tells us that Faith is the path to heaven, and life eternal. According to (my) Christian beliefs, the day of judgement offers 2 possibilities. One, that we each face God's judgement, using the Old Testament as the guide used for judgement, and even one sin brings a verdict of guilty. The second is that we stand before God, but behind Jesus, and Jesus, having lived a perfect and sin free life in our stead, is what God chooses to see because of our Faith in Him.
The New Testament does address sex and sexual sin. The New Testament tells us that the Christian body is to be a temple for the Holy Spirit, and that it should be kept clean, and treated in a respectful manner. Christians can choose to be celibate, devoting all of their energy to Christ ..... however, the Bible also allows that this is not the path for all people. For those who cannot control their urges to that degree, we are instructed to take one wife, and to be only with her. This seems to exclude the appropriateness of a homosexual relationship (since you brought the matter up) and/or marriage in the eyes of God. I have found nothing in the New testament what would legitimize such relationships in the eyes of God. (again, since you brought the issue up)
While I do believe that no one (except Jesus) ever has, or can live a perfect life, I do think that Christians have to be really careful not to think that God allows us to just do whatever we want because we have professed Faith in Jesus Christ, and repented our sins. I think that we have to do our best to move away from sinful behavior. We will fail, and that is why we have been given Grace, but I do not think that Grace gives us license to go do whatever we want in violation of what God expects from us as Christians. How can I, for example, be a Christian, and ask God for forgiveness of my sins, yet continue to live in sin with a woman? (As an example, No one could put up with me 24/7 with my back int he shape it's in now. lol) How much repentance of that sin is there if i ask for forgiveness, yet continue to commit the same sin willfully?
I think that these are questions that each Christian must answer for themselves, in their own hearts, and ones that I struggle with myself.. We ought not judge others for their actions ..... but that does not mean that we should approve of behavior that the Bible says are contrary to God's will. I think that giving that kind of approval, while believing that it could lead a person to eternal damnation, would be the truly hateful act.
I hope I this post made some sense ........... because I am really beat.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Well the Bible also says taking the Lords name in vain is a capital sin (Lev 24:16), and anyone who has been eunuch'd can't be in the congregation of the Lord (Deut 23:1) and if you're child is rebellious, to kill them with stones (Deut 21:18-21)
So I suppose compared to that, some good ol' slavery or gay bashing is just no big deal (tm)
Maybe someone more adept at it can chime in. Where is PastorDawg when you need him?
One solution is for Hobby Lobby to just cancel their insurance plan and pay the fines, and then let the government have them and they can give them anything they want.
If a company is providing health care options, then they should be free to choose what they offer. If the people don't like it they can choose to to join into the government option. The government is the only one who seems to be forcing healthcare onto people.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Quote: The Old Testament Laws were fulfilled by the perfect life of Jesus Christ. He lived his life in perfect accord with the law, and when he sacrificed himself on the cross, he gave us (Christians) the benefit of his perfect life.
Hey YTown!
I am definitely familiar with Jesus fulfilling the requirements of salvation in the old testament. In the new testament you didn't see people sacrificing animals because Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. My parents are fundamentalist baptist, and as their child I went to church during my time in their household. I also went to a baptist school until 9th grade. I don't read the Bible that much anymore but I have read it about a dozen times from Genesis to Revelations.
When I posted those examples of scripture, it wasn't an attempt to bash the Bible but how I feel there is a logical fallacy in how many approach it. In a fundamentalist christian religion, the Bible is to be taken literally because it is the Word of God. But when you have troublesome scripture like this, it is then cast aside as not to be taken literally. Either it's the "old testament" and we don't do that anymore, or God really meant (some vague concept) instead of the literal case. Its a big problem I have with fundamentalism, not with the Bible.
When I was in seventh grade, the baptist school really turned on the jets in science. We were taught that the Sun revolves around the Earth, that the earth is only 6000 years old, and that Darwin was an agent of Satan and Evolution is the devils trick. Of course most of these kids bought it, when an agent of authority tells you something, especially a teacher, you are taught to believe it. I think my only saving grace was my parents having an encyclopedia at home that I liked reading alot (yes I'm a nerd).
I see the same logical fallacy here in claiming these birth control methods are somehow giving women dozens of abortions over their use. If they truly feel this way, they should push for a total ban on birth control supplements, not cherry pick. Does religion teach people to cherry pick what we like and don't like?
I recently joined the United Methodist Church. (after a long and winding road, examining different denominations and visiting a number of different churches in my area. I have always believed, as Methodists do, that God gave man brains for many reasons, and among those reasons is so that man can learn about the world around him. That is a big reason why I decided upon the United Methodist Church when I went looking for a Church. They best fit my understanding of God and the world, and how man fits into the world, and should interact with the world. .
Here is a little bit about Methodism. (Not too long, and far more at the link ..... including a stance on some social issues that may surprise some. I cannot say that I am 100% in absolute agreement with all of the Church's positions, but I respect them, and do agree with the vast majority of them.
The United Methodist Church is a Protestant movement and traces its roots back to John Wesley, an Anglican priest in the Church of England in the 1700s. John and his brother, Charles, intended to revitalize the Church of England by forming societies of "Methodists"– so called because the members followed a daily routine of religious observance and social work. Methodism first spread to Ireland and then to America where it officially became its own denomination in 1784. Today United Methodist membership stands at nearly 10 million worldwide (more than 1 million are outside of the United States).
Part of the mark of being a United Methodist is that we hold a wide range of theological beliefs. John Wesley said, "As to all opinions which do not strike at the root of Christianity, we think and let think." In general, we agree on the major aspects of theology. We believe in a Triune God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe in God’s love and forgiveness of all people. We believe in the mystery of salvation through Jesus Christ. And we believe in celebrating the Sacraments of Baptism and Holy Communion.
For United Methodists, social consciousness has always gone hand in hand with faith. We believe, with John Wesley, "that the world is our parish." Hence, we support mission and justice work locally, regionally and around the world. We cherish an ecumenical tradition and seek to work together with other Christian denominations as well as other religions. We believe in the dignity of each person and the practice of total democracy in our church’s life.
John Wesley believed that the living core of the Christian faith was revealed in Scripture, illumined by tradition, vivified in personal experience, and confirmed by reason. United Methodists today follow four main guidelines that help us understand our faith. Scripture, Tradition, Experience, & Reason:
Scripture - United Methodists share with other Christians the conviction that Scripture is the primary source and criterion for Christian doctrine. Through Scripture the living Christ meets us in the experience of redeeming grace. We are convinced that Jesus Christ is the living Word of God in our midst whom we trust in life and death.
Tradition - The story of the church reflects the most basic sense of tradition, the continuing activity of God's Spirit transforming human life. Tradition is the history of that continuing environment of grace in and by which all Christians live, God's self-giving love in Jesus Christ. As such, tradition transcends the story of particular traditions.
Experience - Some facets of human experience tax our theological understanding. Many of God's people live in terror, hunger, loneliness, and degradation. Everyday experiences of birth and death, of growth and life in the created world, and an awareness of wider social relations also belong to serious theological reflection. A new awareness of such experiences can inform our appropriation of scriptural truths and sharpen our appreciation of the good news of the kingdom of God.
Reason - Although we recognize that God’s revelation and our experiences of God’s grace continually surpass the scope of human language and reason, we also believe that any disciplined theological work calls for the careful use of reason. By reason we read and interpret Scripture. By reason we determine whether our Christian witness is clear. By reason we ask questions of faith and seek to understand God’s action and will.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I actually worked with a Methodist church in Akron helping a couple of their pastors understand climate change. They came in with an open mind, asked questions until they understood arguments for and against climate change and walked away trying to figure out how to make their church more energy independent. Good people. If I had a grown up in the Methodist church, I may not have walked away from religion so easily.
I've been going to a Methodist church pretty much all of my life and it has always seemed like a very nice place to be. Maybe that's why I don't understand when people talk about these very bad church experiences they have had because I've never had one.
Quote: I actually worked with a Methodist church in Akron helping a couple of their pastors understand climate change. They came in with an open mind, asked questions until they understood arguments for and against climate change and walked away trying to figure out how to make their church more energy independent. Good people. If I had a grown up in the Methodist church, I may not have walked away from religion so easily.
It's never too late to walk back in.
I walked back in at 51. I believed in God ..... but I wasn't one for religion. I decided that I wanted to find a church though, especially since my back limits what I can do. I figured it would give me an activity, and something to keep me on some sort of schedule. I went to several churches, and was really looking for one with a somewhat younger congregation.
I wound up in a church with a much older congregation, for the most part. However, the first sermon I heard in that church really touched me.I went back, and enjoyed the 2nd sermon even more. Then the 3rd ..... a 4th Sunday ... then a 5th ......
I joined the church, officially, this past Sunday. It wasn't what I thought I was looking for at first, but it was what I wanted to find.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Because then nobody will have an excuse. I think all forms of birth control should be covered, that way certain social benefits an be cut.
In the end, the tax payer will pay less.
This is incorrect. The tax payer will pay in other ways. Stores will need to increase their prices to pay and cover everything that is mandated. The more money they need to spend on coverage, the less money they'll have to use in other more useful ventures such as investment or innovation.
Because then nobody will have an excuse. I think all forms of birth control should be covered, that way certain social benefits an be cut.
In the end, the tax payer will pay less.
This is incorrect. The tax payer will pay in other ways. Stores will need to increase their prices to pay and cover everything that is mandated. The more money they need to spend on coverage, the less money they'll have to use in other more useful ventures such as investment or innovation.
Covering a few more birth control methods would not lead to any of this. The theory is right if the abortifactants were so costly that they were destroying places like Hobby Lobby, but that's not the case at all.
Because then nobody will have an excuse. I think all forms of birth control should be covered, that way certain social benefits an be cut.
In the end, the tax payer will pay less.
This is incorrect. The tax payer will pay in other ways. Stores will need to increase their prices to pay and cover everything that is mandated. The more money they need to spend on coverage, the less money they'll have to use in other more useful ventures such as investment or innovation.
Covering a few more birth control methods would not lead to any of this. The theory is right if the abortifactants were so costly that they were destroying places like Hobby Lobby, but that's not the case at all.
It never ceases to amaze me how easily liberals rationalize the forced spending of OTHER PEOPLE'S money.
Quote: It never ceases to amaze me that John McCain always wants to send other families young men to die in other countries.
Yeah...that insensitive *** has no idea what it's like to be in a war. He just willy-nilly wants our young men put in danger and for no good reason. How would HE like it if he went to war and was captured by the enemy?
The fact he experienced it, dealt with everything that involves being a POW and still wants to send people into every conflict in the world dumbfounds me.
Quote: The fact he experienced it, dealt with everything that involves being a POW and still wants to send people into every conflict in the world dumbfounds me.
Every conflict in the world? Really? Every darned one? How about no.
McCain is one of the few Congressmen we have who truly understands the consequences of conflict...engaging in it or deciding not to.
You are dumbfounded because he believes in something that you do not. He has his reasons...he understands the consequences...you are against engaging in other country's problems (but favor telling others how they should spend their money on birth control).
You may be the correct one here regarding conflict...but it's very easy to see why you are dumbfounded by his stance. He sees your point of view...but you do not see his. To be fair, you (and I) do not have access to the level of information that he has to form his stance. (BTW, that doesn't make him right or you wrong.)
Maybe that's because he's one of the few left that understands what it took to not only found this Country but to keep it this way. Just because you think we should just sit back and pretend everythings hunky-dory does not mean that everybody else does the samething.
YTown, I could write a book about what you said, but I'll spare us all and just give you a big A man after my own heart. Good Job Man.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives use hyperbole to scare people then get mad when they get called out on it.
You call it 'hyperole' I call it the facts of the matter. You know...those pesky little things that liberals refuse to see. (Such as...Who is writing the check?) You call it 'scare', I call it seeing through the elitist BS of 'fairness'.
McCain is doing the job he was elected to do. Obama is doing the opposite of what the POTUS is elected (primarily) to do.
Quote: It never ceases to amaze me how easily liberals rationalize the forced spending of OTHER PEOPLE'S money.
Because it's OTHER PEOPLE'S money. If it was their money being discussed, they have none of this. If they actually thought about the cost of things and had to pay for it themselves, they'd be conservatives.
Truth is, they don't consider what the cost is because they don't care. They don't see that they're paying for it.
Quote: It never ceases to amaze me how easily liberals rationalize the forced spending of OTHER PEOPLE'S money.
Because it's OTHER PEOPLE'S money. If it was their money being discussed, they have none of this. If they actually thought about the cost of things and had to pay for it themselves, they'd be conservatives.
Truth is, they don't consider what the cost is because they don't care. They don't see that they're paying for it.
It consistently amazes me how conservictims believe they're the only ones with wallets and their beliefs trump justice. The SCOUTS decided corporations are people and women are breeders, yet there's an incessant whine from the right that people are taking THEIR money.
They probably also believe people at airports want to steal their luggage.
Paranoid narcissistic symptoms of victimization grandeur.
Quote: It never ceases to amaze me how easily liberals rationalize the forced spending of OTHER PEOPLE'S money.
Because it's OTHER PEOPLE'S money. If it was their money being discussed, they have none of this. If they actually thought about the cost of things and had to pay for it themselves, they'd be conservatives.
Truth is, they don't consider what the cost is because they don't care. They don't see that they're paying for it.
It consistently amazes me how conservictims believe they're the only ones with wallets and their beliefs trump justice. The SCOUTS decided corporations are people and women are breeders, yet there's an incessant whine from the right that people are taking THEIR money.
They probably also believe people at airports want to steal their luggage.
Paranoid narcissistic symptoms of victimization grandeur.
When did birth control become a right to be provided by the government? Hobby Lobby was already providing 16 forms of birth control before the department of health and human services mandated it. The obummercare law left open provisions for HHS to add new mandates, and sebilius added this one without consulting anyone, and without even checking on constitutionality. Why should the rest of us be forced to pay for someone else's birth control? I always took care of mine and my wife's without government intervention.
Because then nobody will have an excuse. I think all forms of birth control should be covered, that way certain social benefits an be cut.
In the end, the tax payer will pay less.
This is incorrect. The tax payer will pay in other ways. Stores will need to increase their prices to pay and cover everything that is mandated. The more money they need to spend on coverage, the less money they'll have to use in other more useful ventures such as investment or innovation.
Covering a few more birth control methods would not lead to any of this. The theory is right if the abortifactants were so costly that they were destroying places like Hobby Lobby, but that's not the case at all.
It never ceases to amaze me how easily liberals rationalize the forced spending of OTHER PEOPLE'S money.
y'all keep saying the cost will rise if this and that happens...but it hasn't.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Since when did it become a specific right to exclude by a religious group? How come THEY have that government provided right especially when considering their tax exemption is stealing our money?
Who is writing the check? You ignore the entire basis of the argument. Higher costs? Lower costs? Same costs? The person writing the check should be able to decide what to cover.
If the government insists on forcing a law onto someone, then they should be forced to follow their own (other) existing laws. Oh the horror.
Also, if you think health care and insurance costs aren't going up, you must not be paying for 100% of your care & insurance. It's easy to talk about costs when you are covered by insurance paid for by someone else (employer, military, parents, etc.)
Who is writing the check? You ignore the entire basis of the argument. Higher costs? Lower costs? Same costs? The person writing the check should be able to decide what to cover.
If the government insists on forcing a law onto someone, then they should be forced to follow their own (other) existing laws. Oh the horror.
Also, if you think health care and insurance costs aren't going up, you must not be paying for 100% of your care & insurance. It's easy to talk about costs when you are covered by insurance paid for by someone else (employer, military, parents, etc.)
take a look at your comments in the Target thread. you're against Target asking gun owners to leave their guns.
they are a business, so you support business with birth control but nut weapons?
double standard much? at least me and CHS are constant with our logic.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Who is writing the check? You ignore the entire basis of the argument. Higher costs? Lower costs? Same costs? The person writing the check should be able to decide what to cover.
If the government insists on forcing a law onto someone, then they should be forced to follow their own (other) existing laws. Oh the horror.
Also, if you think health care and insurance costs aren't going up, you must not be paying for 100% of your care & insurance. It's easy to talk about costs when you are covered by insurance paid for by someone else (employer, military, parents, etc.)
I'm not ignoring anything. Your "facts" were blown out of proportion and weren't credible. Do you realize that with the US's privatized health care system that we are spending the most on health care in the world? Why do you think that is considering UHC systems are a lot less expensive than ours?
Quote: One solution is for Hobby Lobby to just cancel their insurance plan and pay the fines, and then let the government have them and they can give them anything they want.
If a company is providing health care options, then they should be free to choose what they offer. If the people don't like it they can choose to to join into the government option. The government is the only one who seems to be forcing healthcare onto people.
I agree for the most part. I like parts of ObamaCare, but the mandate is one piece that I don't like at all.
Compromises watered the ACA down. Mandates, vouchers, premium support, private industry marketplace are all more GOP-centered than Liberal. Much of that is in there to get the final votes and protect the moderate Democrats that voted on this.
I'd prefer leaving the private market alone and offering a Gov't Plan that doesn't involve mandates or marketplaces. Simply expand Medicaid and offer some help to the poor that don't have insurance options. I'm sure most on the Left would as well. But to get the Bill through, it had to be some pseudo-free-market, mix. Hence, why RepubliCare and the Paul Ryan Medicare Plan is basically ObamaCare with a little less subsidy and more protection for the industry (tort reform and removing profit caps).
A man after my own heart. Good Job Man.
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