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Sure. Why not?
Because then nobody will have an excuse. I think all forms of birth control should be covered, that way certain social benefits an be cut.
In the end, the tax payer will pay less.
This is incorrect. The tax payer will pay in other ways. Stores will need to increase their prices to pay and cover everything that is mandated. The more money they need to spend on coverage, the less money they'll have to use in other more useful ventures such as investment or innovation.
Covering a few more birth control methods would not lead to any of this. The theory is right if the abortifactants were so costly that they were destroying places like Hobby Lobby, but that's not the case at all.
I'm not thinking about just Hobby Lobby. I'm thinking about the precedent and consequences a ruling like this would have on different businesses over time.
Once you start examining ALL of the different parties a policy change such as this would harm, you really start to see the full effect. You can't just dismiss that providing mandated goods cost money out of the companies pockets and that has to be raised somehow. It doesn't just magically appear. Now a company like Hobby Lobby might not have a touch of a time paying for mandated policy like other smaller businesses.
The fact of the matter is, when you don't have enough cash on hand to cover what is mandated, then you're forced to make cuts to other parts of the business. This may mean hiring less workers (because every worker is that much more expensive besides regular benefits + the mandated items). And because paying for these mandates costs more, it hurts the bottom line profits, unless of course you do something else.
And you may think I'm old school or have a classic economics type of view, but let's say this ruling went the other way. If more items are mandated in the future and it becomes the norm and profits are lowered with small businesses having to pay boatloads of money towards mandates, why would I ever have the incentive to start my own business?
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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You wouldn't. Which is exactly why this shouldn't be in the hand of businesses, but in the hands of the government. But you're right, if this gets too crazy and they start mandating extremely costly programs and over a decent enough of time (few years or decades), but again, by then, hopefully we have a government ran system.
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I'm still waiting to hear/see a Constitutional based argument that would support forcing HL to pay for those 4 additional forms of birth control. My guess is I won't because there isn't. On the other hand the Constitutional basis for the actual ruling is quite clear.
Ruling in favor of HL is not a ruling in favor of "discrimination". Refusing to pay for those things isn't treating women any different than anyone else, its not treating them as a lesser employee. That claim is absolutely bunk.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
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You wouldn't. Which is exactly why this shouldn't be in the hand of businesses, but in the hands of the government. But you're right, if this gets too crazy and they start mandating extremely costly programs and over a decent enough of time (few years or decades), but again, by then, hopefully we have a government ran system.
You want government-run health care. I can't imagine any possibility where that would be a success. The government needs to keep their hands OUT of the healthcare system. Their limited involvement should be in fostering competition and research and development.
The only government-run operations that make any sense are our armed forces and NASA. Look at the people (generally) who run those operations. It's no surprise those operations function like they do.
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Dawg Talker
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Which is exactly why this shouldn't be in the hand of businesses, but in the hands of the government.
I guess I'm slow. This makes no sense what so ever to me. Why would you want the Gov. involved in anything? Business Owners already have to contend with a lot of red tape, which just drives up the cost of doing business, and much of it is not necessary, most of this red tape is Gov. sponsored and enforced and you want the Gov. involved in Health Care? Why?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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All Pro
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All these Obama liberals on here begging for more "big government" are going to make me puke. If Obama had his way he would burn the Constitution and write his own. The sad part is you have more and more leftwingers agreeing with him.
GO BROWNS!
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Dawg Talker
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I don't thin HL took this to the Supreme Court because of the costs. They didn't want to provide the "day after pill", which they see as a form of abortion. So this was a case of Moral/Religious Standards to trump existing law.
I'm curious to see what the next company in line to challenge this will be...
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*In Baker we trust*
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Legend
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All these Obama liberals on here begging for more "big government" are going to make me puke. If Obama had his way he would burn the Constitution and write his own. The sad part is you have more and more leftwingers agreeing with him.
You do realize that everything the republicans want is opposite of small government right?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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That's the one thing that baffles me about people who vote Republican.
I think as long as the candidate/elected official says 'I'm against big government, I want small government', that's enough for them.
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Legend
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So this was a case of Moral/Religious Standards to trump existing law.
Actually it was a case of an old existing law, the religious free exercise clause of the constitution, being used in a way it had not previously been used, to trump the new law, which is a mandate to provide health insurance.
yebat' Putin
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That's the one thing that baffles me about people who vote Republican.
I think as long as the candidate/elected official says 'I'm against big government, I want small government', that's enough for them.
There are precious few politicians who actually want smaller government any more... not really enough to make a difference. At this point it's not about bigger government or smaller government, it's the aspects of their lives (and other people's lives) that they want controlled and those they want left alone.
yebat' Putin
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That's the one thing that baffles me about people who vote Republican.
I think as long as the candidate/elected official says 'I'm against big government, I want small government', that's enough for them.
The other option is to vote for the guy that says, "I'm flat out going to give you big government"
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You wouldn't. Which is exactly why this shouldn't be in the hand of businesses, but in the hands of the government. But you're right, if this gets too crazy and they start mandating extremely costly programs and over a decent enough of time (few years or decades), but again, by then, hopefully we have a government ran system.
You want government-run health care. I can't imagine any possibility where that would be a success. The government needs to keep their hands OUT of the healthcare system. Their limited involvement should be in fostering competition and research and development.
Right? Because its not like veterans have died waiting months to be seen by doctors? And that's if they weren't on the lists of vets that they had no intention of setting appointments up for. This isn't even about Obama or Bush. This is a fully government run health care system that has failed miserably with tragic consequences. I have no idea why people somehow think that gov't run healthcare via Obamacare won't turn out the same way? The VA is proof that gov't is incapable of running something like healthcare.
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That's the one thing that baffles me about people who vote Republican.
I think as long as the candidate/elected official says 'I'm against big government, I want small government', that's enough for them.
The other option is to vote for the guy that says, "I'm flat out going to give you big government"
So it's better to vote for the liar?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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That's the one thing that baffles me about people who vote Republican.
I think as long as the candidate/elected official says 'I'm against big government, I want small government', that's enough for them.
The other option is to vote for the guy that says, "I'm flat out going to give you big government"
So it's better to vote for the liar?
Isn't that your only option? 
#GMSTRONG
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Yes they all lie. Some just think it's a one sided thing though.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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That's the one thing that baffles me about people who vote Republican.
I think as long as the candidate/elected official says 'I'm against big government, I want small government', that's enough for them.
Should make a thread about that. That's a whole other topic that will probably reach 8 pages.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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~ Legend
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You wouldn't. Which is exactly why this shouldn't be in the hand of businesses, but in the hands of the government. But you're right, if this gets too crazy and they start mandating extremely costly programs and over a decent enough of time (few years or decades), but again, by then, hopefully we have a government ran system.
You want government-run health care. I can't imagine any possibility where that would be a success. The government needs to keep their hands OUT of the healthcare system. Their limited involvement should be in fostering competition and research and development.
The only government-run operations that make any sense are our armed forces and NASA. Look at the people (generally) who run those operations. It's no surprise those operations function like they do.
Look at Europe then look back at us. It's pretty easy to spot who the losers are in health care. Also R&D will be lacking? That's what the government does best, because they can run in the red. That's the great thing about the government. They don't have "debt" like Corporations have debt.*
*To some extent, most of the debt is owed to the people who won't/cannot collect it, the problem is when we have foreign debt.
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Look at Europe then look back at us. It's pretty easy to spot who the losers are in health care. Also R&D will be lacking? That's what the government does best, because they can run in the red. That's the great thing about the government. They don't have "debt" like Corporations have debt.*
*To some extent, most of the debt is owed to the people who won't/cannot collect it, the problem is when we have foreign debt.
Except for the fact that government can have a debt and never produce anything. Corporations have to make a profit, so they will work harder at resolving the problem, especially in the R&D department.
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Except that's not true at all. Evident because most major innovation comes from government sponsored places or the government themselves.
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Except that's not true at all. Evident because most major innovation comes from government sponsored places or the government themselves.
While I will accept a government contractor will innovate, as they can lose their contract, when does government invent anything but more government? I'd love an example, other than a nuclear bomb.
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You're using it right now. I'm almost so confident that the government created most things, that if you look around you and start naming things, I'm sure that I could find how the government helped create it or an early predecessor.
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You mean companies like AT&T that set up telegraph and telephone lines across the country? Maybe companies like Cisco and others that created router technology? Banks that wanted transport protocols that would check data integrity at each router (X.25)? Maybe all those coders that allow you to use smiley faces and other graphics on sites like this?
The government had a need to interconnect computers, and turned the job over to contractors that made it happen. If those contractors were unable to produce over a certain period of time, they would have been fired. Government creates nothing but more government.
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So are we just going to feign ignorance now?
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So are we just going to feign ignorance now?
There's the strange logic again. Actually, it's my business, and I've been doing it a long time. I was there when the government got off of sneakernet, because I installed ARPANET. The government didn't create that. In fact, the government held up the development of the internet for years, as they tried to keep it private for them. I was on the internet in the days of 2400 baud modems and CompuServe. I watched the US Navy refuse to use Windows for years, because of the ability of Windows to report back to Microsoft. Ignorance? Not on this end of the conversation.
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If you've been doing it long enough you would know what ARPA stood for 
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Legend
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You're using it right now. I'm almost so confident that the government created most things, that if you look around you and start naming things, I'm sure that I could find how the government helped create it or an early predecessor.
Your assumption is that those things that were invented with some level of government funding would not have been invented without it.
If you had an innovative solar panel idea and knew that you could either find investors and plunk down a big chunk of your own money and take the risk to try to develop it or you could apply for a big chunk of government money and you still get to keep all of the profits, what would you do? Yea, me too.
yebat' Putin
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Yes, but how much further down the road are we talking? The whole point of research and development is to get to the point quickly, not save up enough money so in 30 years you can test a prototype.
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Yes, but how much further down the road are we talking? The whole point of research and development is to get to the point quickly, not save up enough money so in 30 years you can test a prototype.
That's true but how much quicker might people be if they were doing it on their own dime?
I'm actually not against government research funding the way some are.. I also draw a distinction between things which were invented to meet a government need, usually things funded out of the defense department or NASA which were then adapted for civilian use... and the other things the government spends a lot of money on which seem far less practical.
yebat' Putin
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If you've been doing it long enough you would know what ARPA stood for
Actually, I'd have to look it up. I'm sure most people would have to look up 50 year old acronyms. I also find that after using an acronym for about 5 years I can explain what it means better than what the exact acronym means.
The government held up the release of the potential of the internet for public use for about 30 years. For the longest time, it was for government, scientific, and certain business usage only. It was once the government got out of the way that the internet took off.
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Except that's not true at all. Evident because most major innovation comes from government sponsored places or the government themselves.
Most innovations come when the government backs off and keeps their nose out of things.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Except that's not true at all. Evident because most major innovation comes from government sponsored places or the government themselves.
Most innovations come when the government backs off and keeps their nose out of things.
Some inventions come when the government wants to do something that is impossible and then asks the private sector for help.
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If you've been doing it long enough you would know what ARPA stood for
Actually, I'd have to look it up. I'm sure most people would have to look up 50 year old acronyms. I also find that after using an acronym for about 5 years I can explain what it means better than what the exact acronym means.
The government held up the release of the potential of the internet for public use for about 30 years. For the longest time, it was for government, scientific, and certain business usage only. It was once the government got out of the way that the internet took off.
None of that changes the fact that the government created the internet.
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Legend
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If you've been doing it long enough you would know what ARPA stood for
Actually, I'd have to look it up. I'm sure most people would have to look up 50 year old acronyms. I also find that after using an acronym for about 5 years I can explain what it means better than what the exact acronym means.
The government held up the release of the potential of the internet for public use for about 30 years. For the longest time, it was for government, scientific, and certain business usage only. It was once the government got out of the way that the internet took off.
None of that changes the fact that the government created the internet.
The government funded the creation of the internet. If that means created, then I want licensing and patent rights on every company I own stock in and the products they created.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Except that the government not only created the internet, it also funded most advances as well. ARPA (Now known as DARPA) is a research facility operated by the DoD and surprisingly they created the thing known as "ARPA". So that begs the question, if a government program creates something by itself does that mean that the private sector invented it? Well, I'm not sure. I should let the geniuses figure that one out.
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The first version of the invented came from the government in 1969, called ARPANET.
also, nasa developed modern Semi trucks for aerodynamics, that's why they look like space shuttles if you have noticed, happened when president Nixon ask for ideas during the energy crisis.
Also developed by the government?
GPS, that little device some of you can't live without driving into a ditch.
Also, what people don't realize, a thing called the accelerometer, used originally for guiding missiles.
Now found in Nintendo wii and used to deploy airbags on impact in cars.
Also, the microchip, the government funded what is known now as Intel. Ya know, the very microchip some of you are using to argue that government ran programs never work.
Is that called irony? I'm not sure.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Once again, the government doesn't create these things, the government throws money at private corporations. Space X is a great example. Yes, they have government contracts, but they are a private company that is able to do what the government did for years. They do it cheaper, better, and will be doing it privately for a long time.
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Which company is called "Naval Research Laboratory"? What subsidiary are they part of? Koch Industries, right?
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The airplane
The automobile
And toilets
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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The airplane
The automobile
And toilets
Correct.
Only correct for the internal combustion engine as there were very inefficient cars started before that, that were government created.
Depends. The person who created the flush toilet was the God Son of the Queen at the time, but can we consider someone in the Monarchy/Queen's Court as part of the government or part of a company. It gets fuzzy.
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